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With a new Nid book on the horizon, I am surprised to see a number of negative reviews so far as many people are complaining about the number of rules and changes that the Nids have undergone so far. Now granted, I am new to the Nids in general, however from the looks of things, it appears s if GW wanted to make the needs more of a swarm Army then the traditional Monster Mash lists I have been seeing for the past few months, which could work out to be a good thing against some armies. Saying that, why are so many people unhappy with the new changes? As for what I want to run, I like the fluff of an Airborne Tyranid list with a lot of flyers and Gargoyles but not sure how it will be effective.

From the initial glances, nids get no allies, no psychic disciples from outside the Codex like biomancy, and many of the auto include units from the last Codex got higher point costs or worse stats.

People were pissed about the Tau codex when it first came out, and it's one of the more powerful codecies to-date.

Same with Eldar.

Play, paint, and model what you are interested in. Enjoy games with your buddies.

I'm not a Tyranids player myself, but people appear to be unhappy to me for a few reasons:

1) New stuff ain't all that great.
A bunch of Plasmagun shots are nice, but at BS3 it's a lot less impressive than it initially looks. There is potential, but nothing that screams out as immediately good, so it doesn't appear that this will be like Codex: Heldrake, where the codex is held up by a single very powerful choice supporting a mediocre-to-bad codex.

2) A lot of the old good (and even bad) stuff got nerfed.
Scything Talons losing re-rolls, Doom + Pods + Ymgarls vanishing, losing 2+ Hive Tyrants, Hive Guard -1BS, Tervigons losing most everything, Tyranid Primes getting a huge points increase for no apparent reason (people will use them even less than before, and you never saw them before), losing access to Biomancy which hurts all TMCs, etc.

5) Feels a bit too much like a rehash of previous Codices, except worse.
The new stuff doesn't bring much of a new feel to the codex, and there aren't any new psychic powers or particularly interesting artifacts. In general, I know some would probably prefer playing with the old codex, warts and all.

As for your particular list, Gargoyles are still okay, probably the only Fast Attack option that's reasonably good. The Harpy/Crone has potential, but its stat line of T5/4+ (if I'm remembering this right), means that you're easy bait for one turn of a single unit of Missileside Shooting. Flyrants are still okay I think, and you'll need them for synapse. It's possible to do, but no one at this point is certain about how viable specific builds are at this moment.

 kronk wrote:
People were pissed about the Tau codex when it first came out, and it's one of the more powerful codecies to-date.

Same with Eldar.

Play, paint, and model what you are interested in. Enjoy games with your buddies.

Actually, people were quite excited about the tau and eldar codexes when they came out, and they got better once people had the actual books.

Sadly, as we get more and more info (the book has been out on the web for days) it gets worse.

Also, besides all the nerfs (there were many) many iconic nid units with issues, were not changed (or made worse) in the new book.

Not all is doom and gloom, there are a few gems in the rough, and I am sure hard working players will come up with some decent lists.

It just won't be easy like it was in the last few books....

There was whining about the tau/eldar people , mostly because they had to buy stuff that not everyone owned or that didn't exist pre new codex. no tau player is going to be happy that he has to buy 4 high cost broadsides and 3-4 riptides and two codex to get one army . Specialy when he already invested in to an army.

I think nids have problems with stealers being bad , but people wanting to play them , removing of stuff that was good and the rest being more or less the same . ap2 A6 guns are scary till one sees how much they cost with a BS of 3 and a range of 24" and no real protection to get for them.

Heh....

At this point, if the harpy and crone were 3+ save, and the drool cannon was EITHER torrent, or a better AP....nid players would be happy to buy them.

Going to link this post again. When (if) I get my codex tomorrow I will update it all, but basically it boils down to the majority of things that changed meaningfully? Changed for the worse for Tyranids.

 Rommel44 wrote:
With a new Nid book on the horizon, I am surprised to see a number of negative reviews so far as many people are complaining about the number of rules and changes that the Nids have undergone so far. Now granted, I am new to the Nids in general, however from the looks of things, it appears s if GW wanted to make the needs more of a swarm Army then the traditional Monster Mash lists I have been seeing for the past few months, which could work out to be a good thing against some armies. Saying that, why are so many people unhappy with the new changes? As for what I want to run, I like the fluff of an Airborne Tyranid list with a lot of flyers and Gargoyles but not sure how it will be effective.

Internetters are always unhappy if it isn't T30 with 20 wounds and Instant Death weapons.

You should ignore all that noise, start proxying things and testing things and slowly build your collection because lets face it: they look BAD ASS on a shelf and on the table.

The noise on the internet may prove to be right. but really... I wouldn't bank on that. The truths usually in the middle.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Rommel44 wrote:
With a new Nid book on the horizon, I am surprised to see a number of negative reviews so far as many people are complaining about the number of rules and changes that the Nids have undergone so far. Now granted, I am new to the Nids in general, however from the looks of things, it appears s if GW wanted to make the needs more of a swarm Army then the traditional Monster Mash lists I have been seeing for the past few months, which could work out to be a good thing against some armies. Saying that, why are so many people unhappy with the new changes? As for what I want to run, I like the fluff of an Airborne Tyranid list with a lot of flyers and Gargoyles but not sure how it will be effective.

Internetters are always unhappy if it isn't T30 with 20 wounds and Instant Death weapons.

You should ignore all that noise, start proxying things and testing things and slowly build your collection because lets face it: they look BAD ASS on a shelf and on the table.

The noise on the internet may prove to be right. but really... I wouldn't bank on that. The truths usually in the middle.

This is an unfair characterization. I have stated many times that I don't want any list to be more overpowered than any other. But the gap between tier 1 and tier 2 in the current game is quite nuts.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Rommel44 wrote:
With a new Nid book on the horizon, I am surprised to see a number of negative reviews so far as many people are complaining about the number of rules and changes that the Nids have undergone so far. Now granted, I am new to the Nids in general, however from the looks of things, it appears s if GW wanted to make the needs more of a swarm Army then the traditional Monster Mash lists I have been seeing for the past few months, which could work out to be a good thing against some armies. Saying that, why are so many people unhappy with the new changes? As for what I want to run, I like the fluff of an Airborne Tyranid list with a lot of flyers and Gargoyles but not sure how it will be effective.

Internetters are always unhappy if it isn't T30 with 20 wounds and Instant Death weapons.

You should ignore all that noise, start proxying things and testing things and slowly build your collection because lets face it: they look BAD ASS on a shelf and on the table.

The noise on the internet may prove to be right. but really... I wouldn't bank on that. The truths usually in the middle.

While you may not be able to determine the velocity of the wind, there is no mistaking the direction.

While some "wishlisting" fools will always want silly OP things (and rationalize them when they get them) this time, its more about the heavy nerfs and many common concerns (i.e. models on shelves, monobuilds, etc.) from the past codex NOT being addressed.

But by all means, I invite anyone to form their own opinion on facts, not conjecture....

Martel732 wrote:
This is an unfair characterization.

The most diplomatic response to utter &$(*#&$(*@#& in ages.

Bonus points to you.

I haven't played nids in a couple of years, but I can see what people are upset about.

The new dex nerfed things such as Scything Talons, removal of good units such Doom and Myscetic Spore, the loss of core book powers, instinctive behaviour possibly killing your own units, good units that are still in got the nerf ie Tervigon.

There are more downsides and things that don't make sense in the new book, but the list is pretty big. Another reason people are upset was hope. They hoped the new dex would be highly competitive, one that might give Tau/Eldar a run for its money (which we all hope for competitive rules and there is no wrong in that). A lot of the new models are being looked at in a vacuum. "A Harpy/Crone will get shot down in 1 turn by an aegis quad gun!" Yeah, that's possible, but why are you only running 1 FMC at a quad gun? Shouldn't you have models trying to take that quad gun down before your fliers enter play?

Honestly, once people acclimate to the new rules, and errata and FAQs are released it may not be as bad as people are saying. Will it be tier 1? I doubt it, but who knows?

Hang on... so nid players are UNABLE to use certain units they own???

Spores and Doom both got the heave ho for sure.

Martel732 wrote:
Spores and Doom both got the heave ho for sure.

To be fair, GW are not invalidating any models that GW has sold or produced. THAT is the most odious thing GW has ever done and anybody who has had a large collection of GW minis invalidated by a new GW rules set has a lot to be rightly upset about. This is also pretty crummy of them, but it's very different than if they had said "Oh, y'all liked those Tarvigons we introduced and sold to you over the last couple years? Well, they're gone. Haha."

That's probably why they got the heave ho, then.

I picked up the codex yesterday, and to be honest, I'm diving right in. The last time that I played with/against a tyranid list, it was in 3rd edition. I like all the new toys, even if they're old news for most players.

Also, I'm anticipating a supplement pretty soon, and who knows...maybe some of the units that disappeared will come back. In addition, you'll have the option to basically ally with yourself, giving you more options.

Units that look great so far (keep in mind, I'm using my 3rd edition mindset here):

venomthropes: They give shrouded to units within 6 inches of them. Cover saves that stack? Sure...I'll take those please. Unless I'm wrong...and I could most definitely be...warriors marching behind a gaunt unit would then have a 3+ cover. Going to ground would grant 4+ and so on.

Then there's the Mawlocs- if they can't be placed after they deepstrike, they can do a second Terror from the Deep. Might come in handy when going against units with 2 wounds.

 Rommel44 wrote:
With a new Nid book on the horizon, I am surprised to see a number of negative reviews so far as many people are complaining about the number of rules and changes that the Nids have undergone so far. Now granted, I am new to the Nids in general, however from the looks of things, it appears s if GW wanted to make the needs more of a swarm Army then the traditional Monster Mash lists I have been seeing for the past few months, which could work out to be a good thing against some armies. Saying that, why are so many people unhappy with the new changes? As for what I want to run, I like the fluff of an Airborne Tyranid list with a lot of flyers and Gargoyles but not sure how it will be effective.

Buy the codex (if you must), read it, and be thankful you didnt buy any models.

its 5th with points increase and nerfs. yay

I don't think most people are unhappy about the new dex. Most have not even read it yet, including most of those who are already complaining about it. Until you see it for yourself it's really still up in the air and even then you'd want to see things work in practice as opposed to just on paper.

So don't worry about the Negative Nancys and Pollyanna Prissy Pants types out there who don't think they're getting exactly what they wanted and have therefore preemptively decided it sucks. Most people IMO are still quietly waiting to see for themselves before making any judgment.

^^^ you havnt got the dex yet have you.
youll be in the same boat

And there i no Allying with yourself.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
THere is no more waiting man the information has been out for days, All the good toys got removed or a points increase because people complained about such things as DOOM.

Not that 90 point annihilation barrages arent even more broken o nooooo the doom is to good ban the 1 moel in the dex......

Ive decided im going to play a cheese list of lictors and mawlocs

Bloodynecronight wrote:
Ive decided im going to play a cheese list of lictors and mawlocs

That is not cheese, that is a suicidal one-trick-pony.

 Abandon wrote:
I don't think most people are unhappy about the new dex. Most have not even read it yet, including most of those who are already complaining about it. Until you see it for yourself it's really still up in the air and even then you'd want to see things work in practice as opposed to just on paper.

So don't worry about the Negative Nancys and Pollyanna Prissy Pants types out there who don't think they're getting exactly what they wanted and have therefore preemptively decided it sucks. Most people IMO are still quietly waiting to see for themselves before making any judgment.

Once, just once I'd like to see somebody trying to be positive about the new book say something without taking a swipe at anyone.

ninjafiredragon wrote:^^^ you havnt got the dex yet have you.
youll be in the same boat

No and you might be right. I'm just not gonna jump the gun as they say.

Chumbalaya wrote:

 Abandon wrote:
I don't think most people are unhappy about the new dex. Most have not even read it yet, including most of those who are already complaining about it. Until you see it for yourself it's really still up in the air and even then you'd want to see things work in practice as opposed to just on paper.

So don't worry about the Negative Nancys and Pollyanna Prissy Pants types out there who don't think they're getting exactly what they wanted and have therefore preemptively decided it sucks. Most people IMO are still quietly waiting to see for themselves before making any judgment.

Once, just once I'd like to see somebody trying to be positive about the new book say something without taking a swipe at anyone.

I did not try to say anything positive about the new dex. Having a negative view of negativity does not mean one has a positive point of view.

something positive out of the book?
well old one eye hammer of wrath benefit from his berserk rage, so its his D3 result multiplied by 2x in which probably vs a tank you gonna get the thing glanced to dead which makes a rubble and protection for the carnifex and making your oponent think for a bit if he wanna risk getting out of spot to take on the beast and getting off their rterrain advantage

Well just heard from a number of my friends who read the book and they all had negative reviews on it apparently. Appears the idiots at GW decided to go this rout and it's backfiring horribly right now, as my old store has yet to sell any of the new Tyranid stuff. Apparently that store owner just called GW to give him a refund for all the Tyranid stuff he purchased for the store because of how bad they wrote the book. Granted I still have to read it but things are not looking good for me jumping into the Nids right now to be frank. My friends are pretty reliable when it comes to making solid lists.

Galanur wrote:
something positive out of the book?
well old one eye hammer of wrath benefit from his berserk rage, so its his D3 result multiplied by 2x

That is a nifty little buff but Old One Eye is still probably not going to see a lot of play. He is a 220pt Carnifex with Regen and the only way it can get FNP is if OOE is the warlord (not including casting catalyst on it every turn). OOE is only LD8 so he has to be the only HQ you take or you are forced to pick the other LD10 HQ.

Galanur wrote:
something positive out of the book?
well old one eye hammer of wrath benefit from his berserk rage, so its his D3 result multiplied by 2x in which probably vs a tank you gonna get the thing glanced to dead which makes a rubble and protection for the carnifex and making your oponent think for a bit if he wanna risk getting out of spot to take on the beast and getting off their rterrain advantage

Does it specifically overule the BRB saying hammer of wrath doesn't benefit from special rules etc?

The hammer of wrath says he makes an additional attack at the sub fight phase at I10 ap- and do not count to pile in and stuff....the carnifex living battering ram gives D3 hammer of wrath rather than 1 and the berserk rage of the old one eye says on a hit you gain extra attacks in which the extra attacks cannot regenerate more (with exception of the tail which dont generate attacks from the rage rule) they say the tail dont generate attacks, nothing is mentioned about hammer of wrath in which automatically hit regardless


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the old one eye´s rampage rule says: For every successful to hit roll that old one eye makes in close combat (excluding those from its thresher scythe), it may immediately make one additional attack against the same unit. These additional attacks do not confer extra attacks.