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 MWHistorian wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Seems like a fun codex to be totally honest. It may not be as competitive as the Tau/Eldar/Overpowered Cheesedex. But nothing should be as powerful as those things anyway.

I fail to see how less units, less options, less chance of winning = fun.

I updated the data files for battlescribe for nids, and it hardly felt like they lost options. Many things went down a LOT in points, and I'm excited to see what happens with this shuffle of stuff.

Also, side node, are links to data repositories allowed on dakka?

"New Tyranid Codex: so I've been playing it for a few months now and my impression is..."

Said nobody ever (yet).

Galanur wrote:
Something is very wrong when a pair of scything talons do nothing other than ap6 which is same as having no ap at all...

This isn't true...it also makes it easier for hormagaunts to destroy themselves when they fail IB.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:

Galanur wrote:
Something is very wrong when a pair of scything talons do nothing other than ap6 which is same as having no ap at all...

This isn't true...it also makes it easier for hormagaunts to destroy themselves when they fail IB.

instictive behaviour says they get hits at their highest S with Ap-

Ah missed the AP- bit. I retract my failed attempt at levity.

Galanur wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:

Galanur wrote:
Something is very wrong when a pair of scything talons do nothing other than ap6 which is same as having no ap at all...

This isn't true...it also makes it easier for hormagaunts to destroy themselves when they fail IB.

instictive behaviour says they get hits at their highest S with Ap-

No, they get hit with the Majority Strength unless there is a tie for Majority then you use the highest. And that's only the 1-3 result.

he gave the example of hormagaunts and since nothing go above 3, thats why I said max lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and the 1-3result is literally half your rolls...

Which on average with hormagaunts results in almost half the unit being destroyed.

Wow, that does sound pretty bad.

Yep, thats pretty much the sumemry of the dex

Best thing in the Nid release? Tyrannic War Vets. Lol.

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
Does everybody here play WAAC? Does everyone here play only tournament settings and only the most optimized and maximized lists? If that's the case then go ahead and be upset about the book. If you play this game for the fun and flavor of the army then this book still provides you with some cool options to have fun.

I play with a small circle of friends who, between us, own models for almost every army at this point. Our local 'meta' is weak compared to the tournament meta. Yet we still run into situations regularly where people are threatening not to play against other people's lists, because even for us the power level between armies can be so imbalanced that it's not fun losing regularly.

The Chaos Marine codex is a particular sticking point for us right now because so, so many builds in it are terrible, and we don't own any helldrakes (and never will). Chaos Marines end up playing like lackluster loyalists with no fun toys. It's all too easy, for example, for our Guard player to accidentally put together army lists that our Chaos army practically can't beat. They don't see much table time as a result.

The point of my little anecdote is that even for non-WAAC players just hanging out with friends, it's nice when you feel like your matches are fair, especially if you can do it without debating whether one person should be allowed to use the perfectly legal models they bought because they're too powerful. When a codex is crammed with underpowered and disappointing units, it's just not very fun to play, for either side. Just like in sports - nobody likes to watch a blow-out.

Exalted.
Same case here.

 Gunzhard wrote:
"New Tyranid Codex: so I've been playing it for a few months now and my impression is..."

Said nobody ever (yet).

Here, let me fix that for you.

New Tyrabid Codex: so I've been playing it for a few years now, cause it is the exact same codex as the 5th codex SERIOUSLY take a second to compare them side by side, do it before you keep talking, and my impression is that it isn't going to wow anyone. It isn't medicore, it is bad. Everything that was good was nerfed, things that were bad are still bad, and the new units range from straight bad to potentially medicore.

Feel better?

I have done the side by side comparison with a store copy of the 5th codex. Nothing changed in any substantial way except for the worse. My god, I still can not believe that someone, somewhere thought to themselves, "Man Scything Talons are OP, we need to fix this!"

It is tempting to say Arbiter_Shade is wrong but he is not so far of the points.

As one who played a lott of nids during 5th edition and some during 6th I know some of it: The models every one where using happened to be very good. Above average (tervigon, fly-rant etc.) Like you would expect from most competetive lists it tended to only run the good stuff. The old tyranid codex only had 1 competitive build.

However, if you where to take one step down from competetive and into casual games you could try to use the other units, like warrior etc. However, those units really under performed, it was horrible. In the old codex you had the choise of some very slim genereic good units that where used by every one, and quite a lot of bad units that did not bring anything to the game. They always died fast and they where bad at the job the where performing.

What they did now is that they made all the units that where good before more expensive and also quite a bit worse. And they did not boost the once that always under performed.

The new codex has: Kept the bad units bad. Made the units that where good in the old codex worse and more exspensive.

Besides 40 points of carnifexes (who where horrible bad and costed to much) I do not see any upside in the new codex.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:
"New Tyranid Codex: so I've been playing it for a few months now and my impression is..."

Said nobody ever (yet).

Here, let me fix that for you.

New Tyrabid Codex: so I've been playing it for a few years now, cause it is the exact same codex as the 5th codex SERIOUSLY take a second to compare them side by side, do it before you keep talking, and my impression is that it isn't going to wow anyone. It isn't medicore, it is bad. Everything that was good was nerfed, things that were bad are still bad, and the new units range from straight bad to potentially medicore.

Feel better?

I have done the side by side comparison with a store copy of the 5th codex. Nothing changed in any substantial way except for the worse. My god, I still can not believe that someone, somewhere thought to themselves, "Man Scything Talons are OP, we need to fix this!"

Odin's beard... dude I hope Marijuana becomes legal in your state soon. The truth is, the last Tyranid codex was not a bad codex - it just wasn't a win-button codex. The new one, so far, looks very similar, but clearly not "the exact same". Your reaction is really quite embarrassing (for you), considering that despite your 'side by side comparison' you've yet to playtest the new codex in the current game.

If you want easy-wins, from 'first glance' it would appear that Tyranids again miss that role.

 Gunzhard wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:
"New Tyranid Codex: so I've been playing it for a few months now and my impression is..."

Said nobody ever (yet).

Here, let me fix that for you.

New Tyrabid Codex: so I've been playing it for a few years now, cause it is the exact same codex as the 5th codex SERIOUSLY take a second to compare them side by side, do it before you keep talking, and my impression is that it isn't going to wow anyone. It isn't medicore, it is bad. Everything that was good was nerfed, things that were bad are still bad, and the new units range from straight bad to potentially medicore.

Feel better?

I have done the side by side comparison with a store copy of the 5th codex. Nothing changed in any substantial way except for the worse. My god, I still can not believe that someone, somewhere thought to themselves, "Man Scything Talons are OP, we need to fix this!"

Odin's beard... dude I hope Marijuana becomes legal in your state soon. The truth is, the last Tyranid codex was not a bad codex - it just wasn't a win-button codex. The new one, so far, looks very similar, but clearly not "the exact same". Your reaction is really quite embarrassing (for you), considering that despite your 'side by side comparison' you've yet to playtest the new codex in the current game.

If you want easy-wins, from 'first glance' it would appear that Tyranids again miss that role.

noo, arbiter basically nailed it.

 Niiai wrote:
It is tempting to say Arbiter_Shade is wrong but he is not so far of the points.

As one who played a lott of nids during 5th edition and some during 6th I know some of it: The models every one where using happened to be very good. Above average (tervigon, fly-rant etc.) Like you would expect from most competetive lists it tended to only run the good stuff. The old tyranid codex only had 1 competitive build.

However, if you where to take one step down from competetive and into casual games you could try to use the other units, like warrior etc. However, those units really under performed, it was horrible. In the old codex you had the choise of some very slim genereic good units that where used by every one, and quite a lot of bad units that did not bring anything to the game. They always died fast and they where bad at the job the where performing.

What they did now is that they made all the units that where good before more expensive and also quite a bit worse. And they did not boost the once that always under performed.

The new codex has: Kept the bad units bad. Made the units that where good in the old codex worse and more exspensive.

Besides 40 points of carnifexes (who where horrible bad and costed to much) I do not see any upside in the new codex.

I am dramatizing it a bit, but I don't think I am being really unfair. I decided to buy the new codex, against all better judgement, just because I love Tyranids. They are the reason I got into this game in the first place, I have close to 5k points worth of bugs, and I love painting them. But at the same time, I just really wish I could keep the 5th codex which I hated from the moment it came out...

Warriors are bad, even casually and this bothers me so much because I have so many of them and I love the model. My dad plays IG and we play each other frequently. So many times I have to ask him, hey would you mind NOT running S8 pie plates so I can play some Warriors/Raveners? He gets pissed off and tells me, "only if you can't assault!" To which I roll my eyes and put my warriors back into the box never to be played. The one time I DID play him with warriors and raveners the game was over by turn 2 after he had taken 8-10 warriors/raveners off the table each turn and had more than enough Las Cannons and Las guns to kill my swarms and MCs respectively. They are not cheap enough to warrant how fragile they are. They cost the same amount as terminators and have no way to defend themselves.

EDIT: Gunzhard I live in Colorado so, moot point for you with that ridiculous comment. The Tyranid Codex WAS a bad codex, not because it would just flat out lose but because it was overpriced, was full of useless units, and lacked options. The 6th codex is better priced!, full of useless units, and lacks options.

Well, Carnifexes and Tyrannofexes are definitely cheaper. Can Carnifexes still be taken in units of three?

 Mulletdude wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Seems like a fun codex to be totally honest. It may not be as competitive as the Tau/Eldar/Overpowered Cheesedex. But nothing should be as powerful as those things anyway.

I fail to see how less units, less options, less chance of winning = fun.

I updated the data files for battlescribe for nids, and it hardly felt like they lost options. Many things went down a LOT in points, and I'm excited to see what happens with this shuffle of stuff.

Also, side node, are links to data repositories allowed on dakka?

Re: Lost options. 2 of them are special characters (Doom and Parasite) We also lost Spores, which you wouldn't really notice coding a Battlescribe file because they are transports and don't get their own entry in the army list. So in addition to losing the models, we lost the utility that deep striking quite a few units previously offered. Now, just about everything foot slogs; great for Pyrovores!

Re: points drops - No, no they really didn't.

Carnifexes down 40 is nice, considering 160 was way overpriced.
Tyranofexes down 75 shows how crazy overpriced they were.
Harpy (lol) down 25
Mawloc (that noone took) down 30.

So the points drops were largely on models that no one took already, because they were insanely overpriced. The prices drops look huge, but really only put those models at "reasonable" to "good deal". Everything else went down a handful of points, again largely on things like Lictors that no one used because they were (and really, still kind of are, bad).

Many models that saw points drops also saw pretty sizable nerfs.

Lictors: Losing rending on flesh hooks removed their one-trick-pony use of showing up behind a tank and shooting it up the tail pipe.
Zoanthropes: Becoming a brotherhood of psykers means that they get 1 to 2 LESS powers to use a turn, and turns their Warp Blast into an All-or-Nothing affair.
Termagants: 1 point cheaper per model. Previously cost 50 points to unlock a Tervigon troop, now costs 120. Did you want AG/TS like you used to get from the Tervigon? 2 PPM each, so your costs go up WAY higher. You can pay less for weaker Terms, or MORE for the same power level they used to have.
Hormagant: 1 point cheaper per model. Would you pay 1 PPM to get to reroll 1s? Cause Horms lost that.

Re: Crones - Crones are possibly the worst anti-air in the game. Keep in mind: we gained NO skyfire weapons in this codex. 0. We have skyfire 'options' via our 3 flyers:

Harpy: It's only gun options are blast, and so CANNOT skyfire. Vector strike only
Crone: It's main weapon is template, and so CANNOT skyfire. It's Tentaclids are 1 use, and has as much chance to do nothing as it does to penetrate an enemy flyer. Most likely, it will glance and strip a single HP. (BS3 means 1 of 2 Tentaclids will hit.) S8 vector strike is nice and all, but IME vector striking enemy fliers is much harder than it sounds. So our "anti-flyer flyer" only has 4 1 shot weapons to deal with enemy flyers. Also keep in mind it does not have Torrent, so you have to be RIGHT UP on your enemy to use it. Perfect place for a T5 4+ critter right? No way in the world that will go wrong, right?
Hive Tyrant: Doing what it did before; our only real anti-flyer option.

Perhaps we should start Ignoring all the trolls who try to derail the thread by all that
"you can't say codex is bad you haven't played it for months"
And just focus on what this turd of a codex has to offer (if any).

Johnnytorrance wrote:
Please be honest with your opinions. I would like to hear directly from the new owners of the Codex.

I want my $50 back and what he heck am I going to do with 6k worth of Bugs...

 Gunzhard wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:
"New Tyranid Codex: so I've been playing it for a few months now and my impression is..."

Said nobody ever (yet).

Here, let me fix that for you.

New Tyrabid Codex: so I've been playing it for a few years now, cause it is the exact same codex as the 5th codex SERIOUSLY take a second to compare them side by side, do it before you keep talking, and my impression is that it isn't going to wow anyone. It isn't medicore, it is bad. Everything that was good was nerfed, things that were bad are still bad, and the new units range from straight bad to potentially medicore.

Feel better?

I have done the side by side comparison with a store copy of the 5th codex. Nothing changed in any substantial way except for the worse. My god, I still can not believe that someone, somewhere thought to themselves, "Man Scything Talons are OP, we need to fix this!"

Odin's beard... dude I hope Marijuana becomes legal in your state soon. The truth is, the last Tyranid codex was not a bad codex - it just wasn't a win-button codex. The new one, so far, looks very similar, but clearly not "the exact same". Your reaction is really quite embarrassing (for you), considering that despite your 'side by side comparison' you've yet to playtest the new codex in the current game.

If you want easy-wins, from 'first glance' it would appear that Tyranids again miss that role.

Yes what he said. People seem to be bit chin about the fact there is no supreme easy list that will beat everything. Well boo hoo. Yes Taudar is good and easy to play but making every other army OP to compensate won't solve anything.

 Iranna wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


Wait, AP6 and AP- do the same thing?

Was there an FAQ or something?

Edit: My multilasers just got a LOT worse. :(

AP6 prevents 6+ armour save...

Iranna.

Wait that's what I thought - someone said they were the same. I was really afraid there for a bit, my friend runs Cultists a lot, and one of the other friends I have uses lots of Kroot, and I've played Orks before.

Well, I'm not buying the new codex for a good few months, I'm going to keep an eye on what people say here on dakka. I have the 5th edition and I only really got it just to get back into tyranids and be updated with the "new" models. I'm still deciding whether to learn how to play 40k yet, but with all the conflicts with how tyranids play now, I think I'm going to stay as a painter/collector for now lol.

 Ratliker wrote:
Perhaps we should start Ignoring all the trolls who try to derail the thread by all that
"you can't say codex is bad you haven't played it for months"
And just focus on what this turd of a codex has to offer (if any).

Is this an ironic post? ...pretty funny that the actual FACT is, nobody has play-tested the new codex yet - but to say so is apparently "trolling" and might endanger (derail) a whinefest thread about how much of a turd this codex, that nobody has played yet, is... Ok got it hah.

madd_leeroy wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:
"New Tyranid Codex: so I've been playing it for a few months now and my impression is..."

Said nobody ever (yet).

Here, let me fix that for you.

New Tyrabid Codex: so I've been playing it for a few years now, cause it is the exact same codex as the 5th codex SERIOUSLY take a second to compare them side by side, do it before you keep talking, and my impression is that it isn't going to wow anyone. It isn't medicore, it is bad. Everything that was good was nerfed, things that were bad are still bad, and the new units range from straight bad to potentially medicore.

Feel better?

I have done the side by side comparison with a store copy of the 5th codex. Nothing changed in any substantial way except for the worse. My god, I still can not believe that someone, somewhere thought to themselves, "Man Scything Talons are OP, we need to fix this!"

Odin's beard... dude I hope Marijuana becomes legal in your state soon. The truth is, the last Tyranid codex was not a bad codex - it just wasn't a win-button codex. The new one, so far, looks very similar, but clearly not "the exact same". Your reaction is really quite embarrassing (for you), considering that despite your 'side by side comparison' you've yet to playtest the new codex in the current game.

If you want easy-wins, from 'first glance' it would appear that Tyranids again miss that role.

Yes what he said. People seem to be bit chin about the fact there is no supreme easy list that will beat everything. Well boo hoo. Yes Taudar is good and easy to play but making every other army OP to compensate won't solve anything.

No one is asking for Tau/Eldar level of power. What we are asking for is a codex where most of the units are poor choices and everything can be fielded. What we got is a codex where everything is a poor to medicore with no star units, the same problem the 5th codex had. It seems our choices now are between bad and worse and that makes the codex boring and uniteresting. I could care less if a army is powerful if they at least have units that I can put on the table and expect to do something with them. SoB are considered a pretty bad army but I love playing them, win just fine with them against most list, and while I have complaints about their codex over all I feel it is decent. The new Nid book? It is just plain bad, I don't mean that in terms of power level, it is just power written with no thought put into it. Most of the codex is filled with units that are just plain useless. Warriors lack survivability, don't put out that much damage, and are expensive. Same thing with Genestealers. Same thing with Hormagaunts, Lictors, Tervigons, Primes, Haruspex, Harpy, Raveners, etc, etc. The list goes on and on with units that are just so bad they aren't worth fielding. The units that ARE worth fielding are decent at best which leads to playing any army that is just boring to play with and against. The Crone on the one hand seems like it might be decent but in reality is so fragile that it is going to go down super fast against any army. The Exocrine looks like he is great on paper but in play will go down fast, lacks maneuverability and doesn't REALLY pack that huge of a punch. Will he put down Riptides? If he can get in range before being shot down. Will he kill Wraithknights? If he can get into range then the Wraithknight can charge him and frankly the Wraithknight is much better in melee than the Exocrine.

The biggest let down of the new book is that it is pretty much a complete copy-paste of the current book. So many missed opportunities to change things for the better, or just change them for the sake of novelty. Such a missed opportunity.

I noticed that Zoanthrope automatically get Warp blast AND can generate a power from the Tyranid codex powers. That's kind of nice....However, what do you do if you get catalyst? Do you get 3 chances to cast it because there are 3 psykers?

I feel like the answer is "no" due to brotherhood rules...

The other thing I want to point out is this: A viable shrike build (which by the way, no models were released for) costs 50 ppm!!! Even to make them more effective (TS) that brings them to 53 ppm. No way will they be used.

RE: Tervigon nerfs--I read somewhere that people were unsure if Gants got counter attack anymore and Yes, they do. Furthermore, did anyone read the how the "Spawn termagants" works? It's changed. Before, you had to spawn BEFORE you moved the Tervigon. Now you can spawn AFTER the Tervgion has moved. Sure you can't do anything but Run with those gants after they've spawned, but who cares? Anyone else seeing Outflanking Tervigons spawning Gants into Tau's backline?

I don't own the book or have any intentions of playing Tyranids but I always like reading the new Codexes to see what's changed. Personally, I don't like it. I feel that too much has been nerfed through point increases and loss of options for this to be as competitive as Eldar or Tau for example, although I imagine some long-time 'Nid players may be able to come up with some pretty competitive lists.

 Gunzhard wrote:
the actual FACT is, nobody has play-tested the new codex yet

This is the funny "ha-ha" part of your post, guessing it was your jab at irony? (I mean, even the cynics are hoping the rumor is that GW did playtest this one and just decided it was too stupid to fix in time.)
The rest is funny "uh-oh" and pretty much bunk to anyone that has an understanding of rules.