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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQQGcgJ5PZ0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Not sure if this was already posted or not but I think this about sums up how garbage nids are now since synapse is such a killer and not much can be done about besides a prime hiding ina squad of 3 fexes with an adl at max range and a venom behind the fexes to provide a 2+ cover, but that wont really work vs barrage, tau, serpent shields, or anything fast enough to get over the adl like white scar bikers. I suppose there is always bubble wrap but its not too hard to just kill the bubble wrap or venom to cripple them before taking out the synapse and winning the game cuz nids dont understand that biting themselves will kill them, that those silly guardsmen really arent thay scary and you shouldnt be running away from them, or that there really arent a bunch of invisibile bullets flying through the air and they should quit ducking, without a god telling them that it really isnt that bad.

 A GumyBear wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQQGcgJ5PZ0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Not sure if this was already posted or not but I think this about sums up how garbage nids are now since synapse is such a killer and not much can be done about besides a prime hiding ina squad of 3 fexes with an adl at max range and a venom behind the fexes to provide a 2+ cover, but that wont really work vs barrage, tau, serpent shields, or anything fast enough to get over the adl like white scar bikers. I suppose there is always bubble wrap but its not too hard to just kill the bubble wrap or venom to cripple them before taking out the synapse and winning the game cuz nids dont understand that biting themselves will kill them, that those silly guardsmen really arent thay scary and you shouldnt be running away from them, or that there really arent a bunch of invisibile bullets flying through the air and they should quit ducking, without a god telling them that it really isnt that bad.

Hahahaha you can tell he is soooooo mad at the new Nid dex. That was actually pretty fun to watch.

In all seriousness I almost feel like he tried to make a gakky list. Knowing that synapse is crucial with just a glance should make you take more than 2 synapse creatures total. I feel that Nids is going to have very few different builds but that they are not completely screwed. Though, I say this without having access to the codex yet.

but which one . he would have to cut a unit of gargoyls +something to get one . And he would still lose 2 on turn 1 .

 A GumyBear wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQQGcgJ5PZ0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Not sure if this was already posted or not but I think this about sums up how garbage nids are now since synapse is such a killer and not much can be done about besides a prime hiding ina squad of 3 fexes with an adl at max range and a venom behind the fexes to provide a 2+ cover, but that wont really work vs barrage, tau, serpent shields, or anything fast enough to get over the adl like white scar bikers. I suppose there is always bubble wrap but its not too hard to just kill the bubble wrap or venom to cripple them before taking out the synapse and winning the game cuz nids dont understand that biting themselves will kill them, that those silly guardsmen really arent thay scary and you shouldnt be running away from them, or that there really arent a bunch of invisibile bullets flying through the air and they should quit ducking, without a god telling them that it really isnt that bad.

That was the most entertaining bat rep I've ever seen. The dude's scorn for the codex dripped from every dice roll. LOL! Wow. Their nerfing of the tau/eldar army in the second game was hilarious.

It seems like he has Dominion, but hadn't used it to extend his synapse range, which would have helped against a lot of that instinctive behavior.

He also didn't try spamming the horror, which can lock down missilesides and even the riptide.

He also is trying it against one of the best competitive lists out there - that hardly means the list is unplayable. Try some CSM lists against that eldar list sometime, see how well they do.

The problem with the dex isnt that its not competitive (even though it isnt really) There will probably be 1 or 2 decent competitve lists, so those players are fine (and not the ones doing most of the complaining despite everyone saying so).

The problem is you have to choose between monobuild to have a chance or play fun/fluffy lists that almost have zero chance at winning. Those are the players complaining.

For example i dont like the models holding weapons, i think they look stupid, but since melee either got left broken, or broken more -
no fix for stealers, warriors, raveners, trygon tunnels
loss of parasite, doom, pods
no brb powers, no allies or compensating rule to balance it
nerfs to claws which effect trygons and melee fex badly
effective nerf even to the cheaper haumagaunts (loss of rerolls and more expensive upgrades more than cancels out fleet +3" and 1 point base cheaper)
The ridiculous synapse nerf which effects melee most of all as they eat themselves! As if melee was majorly overpowered to begin with, it was barely hanging on!

Costing carnis to what they should have been anyway before the nerf doesnt make them amazing, just average.
The dedicated (!) anti flyer is weaker than the flying hive tyrant were almost forced to take and collapses due to how fragile it is.

So basically the premier close combat army now has to play a boring shooty monobuild to have a chance at winning, or play fun.fluffy lists for your oponent to destroy at leisure

Personal favorite unit is the hive crone. That thing looks really good. The haywire effect makes the tentaclids a terrifying prospect for flyers. Not terrible in melee if you want to smash vehicles and the creatures got a good shooting attack for infantry also. So its useful no matter the enemy.

The Exocrine is a fantastic unit to protect Hive Crones by killing anti-air units and just about any others. 6 str 7 ap2 shots does not suck, and when it moves you can mitigate its lower bs by firing the large blast. Its unfortunate that it is a heavy support. It seems like a Tyranid Vindicator in the way its USED.

The new codex will change how people have to play. It means buying more models probably but existing lists look like they will work. Carnifexes are surely better and people may go back to using them so old timers might have some goof news too.

Though, having taken a look at the codex I honestly do see some slight potential but I feel you will have a harder time playing to the strengths of this codex than it should be.

But I think that we could start seeing hive tyrants actually walking with some hive guard with mandatory dominion for some easy guaranteed synapse. I was thinking with a heavy venom cannon, but, with BS1(if im seeing this right) i dont know if any guns(other than TLdevs) are really going to be worth it.

Why is the tenteclid a "terrifying prospect for flyers"? They pen on a 6 and Crones are BS3 to boot. You'll be taking less than one hullpoint off a flyer per turn on average without vector striking.

- - - - - -

The best bright spot I see for 'nids is the big middle finger they give to psychic deathstars. Deathleaper+Shadow in the Warp equals a leadership 5 psyker on average (4 for a perfect roll on the d3).

If the instinctive behavior table didn't have such dire results on a 1 -3, had it only been on a 1 it might not have been so terrible.

This codex just isn't going to be fun to play with.

Meeeh.

The 1000 point list that I've been using for the past few year is actually no longer legal. Why? Because, without adding or removing ANY units, the list has actually gone UP in points.

I saved 130 points between the carnifex point drop, zoanthrope point drop and the termagaunt drop.

But I've lost 205 points from the Prime increase, bonesword&lash increase, tervigon increase, and having to pay for toxin sacs now.

So in all my list has become 75 points more expensive.

Thanks Games Workshop. I can reeeeeeeally feel the savings in points here.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
So in all my list has become 75 points more expensive.

But... but... the prices went... down...?

*mind cracks*


AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!



But you're wrong about the Dakkafex thing. Monstrous Bioweapons says replace any pair of ScyTals. 'Fexes have 2 sets, so can replace both.

Oh, nice find. Thank God.

A glimmer of hope in the darkness.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I love my two Venom Cannon/Scytal Carnifex, and my two ancient RT-era Screamer Killers (double ScyTals). Now on the former they do almost literally nothing, and on the latter they net me a whopping +1 attack. And we can't combine HTH bioweapons any more because of reasons.


But no, it's ok. Some things got cheaper. The books totally cool. We just haven't playtested it for months so we can't tell yet.

Hate to be the one to say it, but no they don't. Carnifexes lost an attack from their profile, so the +1 from 2 sets of CC biomorphs only puts you on par with what you had before.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Just noticed something today; Hive Guard, a unit described as a "gun-beast", has a better weapon skill than ballistic skill. This baffles me.

This is evolution. It appears that some units improve, some gain factors (Ymgarl) from other units.

What's the deal with Boneswords now? Instant death on a wound roll to 6? Does taking two boneswords improve that or just give you an extra attack?

 Medium of Death wrote:
What's the deal with Boneswords now? Instant death on a wound roll to 6? Does taking two boneswords improve that or just give you an extra attack?

Just gives you an extra attack.

Basically, if you have one CC biomorph there is almost no reason to take anything other than Scything Talons if you want the bonus attack. Scything Talons are basically worthless on their own. They're essentially an (AP6 *finger twirl*) extra CCW.

I have to come back here and eat my words. Currently Tyranids can not be played within a competitive environment.
They do not have the range/durability or the bodies to put down to take on the firepower of Tau or Eldar.

I think they could do ok against other armies but it will still potentially be a struggle.

Such a shame as I was really looking forward to playing Tyranids again.

Games Workshop, you have some answering to do.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And your Carnifexes punch each other to death.


But no, we keep forgetting: A bunch of units went down in cost. The Codex is perfect.

Don't forget the price increases on units like Hive Tyrants and Ripper Swarms, just to make the Codex fair for everyone else to play against. I'd hate to make my Eldar-playing friend rage-quit in frustration as he drowns under the might of my maxed out Ripper Swarm unit.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
I have to come back here and eat my words. Currently Tyranids can not be played within a competitive environment.
They do not have the range/durability or the bodies to put down to take on the firepower of Tau or Eldar.

I think they could do ok against other armies but it will still potentially be a struggle.

Such a shame as I was really looking forward to playing Tyranids again.

Games Workshop, you have some answering to do.

What happened to make you change your mind?

 streamdragon wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
What's the deal with Boneswords now? Instant death on a wound roll to 6? Does taking two boneswords improve that or just give you an extra attack?

Just gives you an extra attack.

Basically, if you have one CC biomorph there is almost no reason to take anything other than Scything Talons if you want the bonus attack. Scything Talons are basically worthless on their own. They're essentially an (AP6 *finger twirl*) extra CCW.

Ah, cheers for the clarification. Not really sure what the GW "Design Team" were going for with all these changes.

 streamdragon wrote:
Hate to be the one to say it, but no they don't. Carnifexes lost an attack from their profile, so the +1 from 2 sets of CC biomorphs only puts you on par with what you had before.

Not a big deal. Things got cheaper, didn't they? This Codex is a Tau-breaker!!!







I'm having trouble keeping the faux-enthusiasm and sarcasm up. It's draining.

I want my money back.

I can't even believe I bought it, honestly, or was seriously considering starting Tyranids again. Maybe if I had paid more attention to the Tyranid rumor thread the past few days I could have dodged a $50 bullet...I've been working late and spending what little free time I have for the past week talking to my maybe future girlfriend, so I didn't see any of the copy/pasted info from the new book. I expected it to be bad, but I expected a lazy copy/paste of the 5th edition rulebook with point cost tweaks (all decreases) and the new units added in with rules designed to sell them. I really didn't think GW had the balls to make it any worse. But by God they did.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Games Workshop, you have some answering to do.

I wouldn't hold my breath while waiting on that answer.

 Spellbound wrote:
He also is trying it against one of the best competitive lists out there - that hardly means the list is unplayable. Try some CSM lists against that eldar list sometime, see how well they do.

The difference is that 5th edition Nids could beat that list.

HBMC I gather that you are repeating "things got cheaper" in a mocking tone to make fun of those that keep saying it is the reason that things aren't so bad?

Honestly I see some potential in the codex. I don't think it's going to be brainless, I think it will take a lot of skill to play but that's the way it is.

Also, everyone keeps saying "WHAT WILL THEY DO AGAINST TAU AND ELDAR AND TAUDAR AND ELDAU?!?!?!?!?!?!?!"

Really, you're going to bring up THE best lists? What about against marines? Chaos? Orks? Are they that screwed against those? There's other armies than tau and eldar, and there are other games than tournament games. The list looks like it CAN do alright in MOST environments so why worry so much?

 Spellbound wrote:
HBMC I gather that you are repeating "things got cheaper" in a mocking tone to make fun of those that keep saying it is the reason that things aren't so bad?

Honestly I see some potential in the codex. I don't think it's going to be brainless, I think it will take a lot of skill to play but that's the way it is.

Also, everyone keeps saying "WHAT WILL THEY DO AGAINST TAU AND ELDAR AND TAUDAR AND ELDAU?!?!?!?!?!?!?!"

Really, you're going to bring up THE best lists? What about against marines? Chaos? Orks? Are they that screwed against those? There's other armies than tau and eldar, and there are other games than tournament games. The list looks like it CAN do alright in MOST environments so why worry so much?

Is there something wrong with wanting to be able to compete with the best? I notice you throw Chaos and Orks, generally considered two of the weakest armies out there under the bus, as though being able to compete with them is some milestone. For a new book to come out in complete disarray, with next to none of the old edition's issues fixed, with almost 0 new fluff, with changes that make almost no sense and nerfs to things that didn't call for nerfs is ridiculous. For people to accept it or somehow martyr themselves over the book ("We just HAVE to make it work! It takes SKILL!") is almost insanity.

 Sidstyler wrote:
I want my money back.

I can't even believe I bought it, honestly, or was seriously considering starting Tyranids again. Maybe if I had paid more attention to the Tyranid rumor thread the past few days I could have dodged a $50 bullet...I've been working late and spending what little free time I have for the past week talking to my maybe future girlfriend, so I didn't see any of the copy/pasted info from the new book. I expected it to be bad, but I expected a lazy copy/paste of the 5th edition rulebook with point cost tweaks (all decreases) and the new units added in with rules designed to sell them. I really didn't think GW had the balls to make it any worse. But by God they did.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Games Workshop, you have some answering to do.

I wouldn't hold my breath while waiting on that answer.

Yeah. I predicted this going badly as soon as the news leaked that models had been taken OUT of the dex. After the troop profiles were leaked it basically confirmed it for me, I think I may have just been about the first one to post in that thread asking... why the hell is everybody so happy??

Return your book. You will get a refund. On the offchance that they try to say no, cite false advertising. It might be shaky but between undelivered model promises such as strong anti-air capabilities, the faked White Dward battle report, and the phrase "all units playable - all units desirable" being used by GW to describe this dex, they probably won't bother arguing it

Just looking at the kits and it seems like this is a great time to get into Tyranids if you love kitbashing and general converting. Bad for the wallet though. Very bad.

This is the THE perfect time to get into Nids. I imagine eBay will be flush with people dumping their armies. So the book is sub-par for tournaments, I still think it's a cool army and I'd still play it despite the rules, I don't play in tournaments, and in friendly games will still be fun to run.

I've never been on the other side of a poor release to be honest. I played old Grey Knights, then our book was good, 6th Edition made it a bummer, oh well. Every other army I just buy, paint, play, think of anther, and move on. I've always wanted to start Tyranids, and this will be the time to snipe some good nid deals online.

Sorry to those that hate the book, and I understand the anger and frustration at such a poor showing. Nothing great about having an army you've probably had forever continually dumped on.

 Matt1785 wrote:
This is the THE perfect time to get into Nids. I imagine eBay will be flush with people dumping their armies. So the book is sub-par for tournaments, I still think it's a cool army and I'd still play it despite the rules, I don't play in tournaments, and in friendly games will still be fun to run.

I've never been on the other side of a poor release to be honest. I played old Grey Knights, then our book was good, 6th Edition made it a bummer, oh well. Every other army I just buy, paint, play, think of anther, and move on. I've always wanted to start Tyranids, and this will be the time to snipe some good nid deals online.

Sorry to those that hate the book, and I understand the anger and frustration at such a poor showing. Nothing great about having an army you've probably had forever continually dumped on.

This.