The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)

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**AtoMaki**

DarthDiggler wrote:

What do you think. Am I out of my mind or does it have a chance? 50/50 is all I need and pray we don't play the Relic mission.

You are out of your mind. 25 poison!Hormagaunts can't kill a single Riptide on the charge (they will only cause 4 wounds, 2.5 if they are against O'Shova) and you know when you will hit a Riptide with 25 poison!Hormagaunts: never - you will be happy if you can hit it with 10-15. The Sky Rays will just laze up the horde with their dual markerlights and SMS and the Riptides will do the dirty work. They can afford to take the Gargoyles since they are immune to Blind and they can just ignore the Zoanthropes. And when all your scoring units are tied up in an endless battle against the Riptides then his Troops will swoop in and take the objectives.

I would drop the Primes for the Deathleaper and some extra Zoanthropes and Hormagaunts.

**Therion**

DarthDiggler wrote:Awesome list. Jy2 plays on the West coast. I play in the Midwest. Home of Adepticon. Each region tends to have slightly different play styles dictated by types of missions we play. Here in the Midwest we are already seeing TO's not allowing armies to ally with their parent codex. It's nothing but a FOC manipulation.

That being said your troops are the weakness. I'd kill them and tie the game at worst. 20 Kroot and 4 suits

Thanks. I'm actually pre-planning a trip to Adepticon with an entourage of a few friends in 2015, so maybe we'll get a game. It'd be cool to travel 4500 miles just to play 40K & FB.

I can't see why you'd ban something as specific as allying without fixing the allies rules in general. Supplements specifically state you can ally with the parent codex, so if you're going to start house ruling, go all the way and fix the allies matrix with the unfair battle brothers rules etc.

As far as the troops are concerned, they'll always be Tau's weakness. It's not feasible to add a lot more troops while keeping the army otherwise intact because the return is so questionable. You could drop a Sky Ray and add 20 more Kroots, but what's that really going to do? Either way that option is there.

Tyranid Prime, boneswords
Tyranid Prime, boneswords
2 Zopes
2 Zopes
2 Zopes
30 Termagants, poison
30 Termagants, poison
25 Hormagants, poison
25 Hormagants, poison
25 Hormagants, poison
30 Gargoyles, poison, adrenal

This is a lot better list than the lists that start with 2 Flyrants and 2 Crones, because I can't justify list building that desperately hopes that every table has a giant skyscraper that you can hide behind all game if the enemy plays a shooty force.

You got a chance (how good that chance is can be argued) like you explained but a lot will depend on the terrain and mission. Can it go against all comers though? I strongly doubt it. The Eldar and Necrons are out there in force as well and they operate very different than the Tau. That's the difference between the obnoxiously good tier 1 armies and armies that try to counter them. The tier 1 list works OK no matter what you play, while the other list folds when something different hits the table. If the counter list can't handle all comers, in a swiss system tournament where winners play other winners there's a very small chance you even end up playing against your counters (if such counters even exist).

**Nem**

AtoMaki wrote:
DarthDiggler wrote:

What do you think. Am I out of my mind or does it have a chance? 50/50 is all I need and pray we don't play the Relic mission.

You are out of your mind. 25 poison!Hormagaunts can't kill a single Riptide on the charge (they will only cause 4 wounds, 2.5 if they are against O'Shova) and you know when you will hit a Riptide with 25 poison!Hormagaunts: never - you will be happy if you can hit it with 10-15. The Sky Rays will just laze up the horde with their dual markerlights and SMS and the Riptides will do the dirty work. They can afford to take the Gargoyles since they are immune to Blind and they can just ignore the Zoanthropes. And when all your scoring units are tied up in an endless battle against the Riptides then his Troops will swoop in and take the objectives.

I would drop the Primes for the Deathleaper and some extra Zoanthropes and Hormagaunts.

Hmmm I don't play against Tau often, with the Hormagaunts you are forgoing combat resolution there I think ? - Worst case for the Nids is the Riptide is stuck in combat, best outcome is Riptide caught in SA? I am a big fan of just tying those shooty units up in combat with low cost units, DL would be a better option to charge maybe.

But I agree they won't all get in to hit anyway, but the Hormagaunts only need to cause 1 more wound, one better than average set of rolls.

**Krucho1986**

Your optimism is refreshing. Exalted.

**AtoMaki**

Nem wrote:

Hmmm I don't play against Tau often, with the Hormagaunts you are forgoing combat resolution there I think ? - Worst case for the Nids is the Riptide is stuck in combat, best outcome is Riptide caught in SA? I am a big fan of just tying those shooty units up in combat with low cost units, DL would be a better option to charge maybe.

The Riptide can cause 1-2 Wounds too so he will roll to Ld6/7 that is like a 50-50 to flee and get caught by the sweeping advance. And poison!Hormagaunts aren't really that cheap: they come at 8ppm, only 1 point less than a Fire Warrior... 25 of them cost nearly as much as a Riptide...

The real problem with hordes is their huge footprint that will hinder their mobility. At best, it will only mess up your charges and you can't attack with all of your models; at worst, your opponent can pick&choose and force you to charge on his terms. In both cases, the poison!Hormagaunts will lose a big deal of combat effectiveness. IMHO, horde is not the answer to Riptide spam. I wonder if the new Tyranids have anything to counter that setup.

**jy2**

Ok, I'm off to do battle against Triptide Tau.

Look out for my battle report coming soon.

**Formosa**

spinegaunts, not having to pay for a twinlinked str 3 shot is nice, I take 90 now

**Fragile**

DarthDiggler wrote:
Therion wrote:
DarthDiggler wrote:
Therion wrote:
I would just like to see a Tyranid list idea in this thread that can make it a competitive game vs Tau. Many of the lists here seem to be playing right into the Tau's hands and that doesn't like very good army building since you know the Tau are out there.

Post the Tau list first. It's easy for you to tear apart a bug list with everything in the tau codex, but they can't take everything so post the Tau list first.

Make sure you can have a way for the Riptides to stay upright and not pinned by the horror psychic power.

Well here's my standard TAC TauTau. Yeah, it doesn't give a hoot about Horror. Talisman of Arthas Moloch is cool like that. Yeah, it'll kill 2 Flyrants and more in a single phase. Already discussed with jy2 and some others in private messages, and basically the Nid gameplan has to be hoping to go second and then hiding behind skyscraper size buildings all game.

-Farsight
-O'Vesa
-Riptide, HBC, EC Pilot, EWO
-Riptide, HBC, ToAM, EWO, Target Lock
-3 Crisis Battlesuits, Missile Pods, Bonding
-1 Crisis Battlesuit, Missile Pod, Bonding
-Sky Ray Gunship, Blacksun Filter
-Sky Ray Gunship, Blacksun Filter
-Sky Ray Gunship, Blacksun Filter
-Commander, CCN, PEN, MSS, VRT, OG
-Riptide, IA, EWO
-10 Kroot
-10 Kroot

Total: 1850

Awesome list. Jy2 plays on the West coast. I play in the Midwest. Home of Adepticon. Each region tends to have slightly different play styles dictated by types of missions we play. Here in the Midwest we are already seeing TO's not allowing armies to ally with their parent codex. It's nothing but a FOC manipulation.

That being said your troops are the weakness. I'd kill them and tie the game at worst. 20 Kroot and 4 suits?

Tyranid Prime, boneswords
Tyranid Prime, boneswords
2 Zopes
2 Zopes
2 Zopes
30 Termagants, poison
30 Termagants, poison
25 Hormagants, poison
25 Hormagants, poison
25 Hormagants, poison
30 Gargoyles, poison, adrenal

I'll put a Prime with each termagant squad and have them spread mid to backfield on each edge of the board to hunt down outflanking Kroot. This way my warlord is safe and I should have 2 sources of synapse the whole game. The Gargoyles will be your first target because they can engage everything including vehicles. The 75 Hoppies will be just behind. Your buff commander can only save one thing with his hit and run. The other Riptides will die to massed poison attacks and the surviving Hoppies and Gargoyles will hunt down the 4 remaining Crisis Suits to prevent any objective grabbing. I figure you'll have 2 turns of shooting if you go first and only one if the Bugs go first. The best part about this list is that in a timed tourney round it will be very hard to complete 5 turns which deny you more turns to shoot the horde.

Holy cow I almost forgot about the 6 Zopes. I'm sure the Skyrays will want to shoot them. They will use all their missiles and be useless for the rest of the fight. Maybe you kill all 6 and maybe you don't. All depends on saves. I figure you might have 1 turn to shoot them before the fast moving little bugs hit the lines.

4 Riptides are nice and combining them with Skyrays means you can really handle the armor 3+ monsters populating the scene. But you wil have trouble against the horde.

What do you think. Am I out of my mind or does it have a chance? 50/50 is all I need and pray we don't play the Relic mission.

The only way that horde list will do anything to that Tau list is if that Tau commander has a heartattack from laughing too hard. HBCs will obliterate your hordes with little to no effort. That list, within 30" will kill your entire termagant squad an Prime in 1 turn. You wont kill his troops because he will reserve them all and engage you with his main force. Not to mention that you have very little shooting that will threaten anything of his. In realistic conditions, you will lose the Zoans and Primes by turn 3.

**Stormbreed**

Quad gun, with ADL (Points unsure)

Barbed Hierdrule - 565
w/ Swarmlord standing next time giving PE and dealing with anything that dares come close.

Venom
Venom

60 Gaunts
3 Warriors

Exocrine
Exocrine
Tyranofex

I think thats about 1850 with a 2 up cover save and a 48" threat range, gonna be hella fun.

**Formosa**

Hive tyrant 165
Wings 35, Miasmic cannon 25, stranglethorn cannon 15 regeneration 30
275

Elites

Hive guard x3 165

Hive guard x3 165

3 venomthropes 135

Troops

30 termagants
spinefists
120

30 termagants
spinefists
120

30 termagants
spinefists
120

Fast attack
20 gargoyles
120

Harpy
Stranglethorn cannon
145

Heavy support

3x biovores
120

Exocrine 170

Exocrine 170

Aegis Defence line 50

VS

---HQ---

cadre fireblade 84 pts.
2 shield drones

darkstrider 100 pts.

---troops---

12x fire warriors 137 pts.
shas'ui
12x EMP grenades

12x fire warriors 161 pts.
shas'ui
2 shield drones
12x EMP grenades

devilfish 147pts.
smart missle system
blacksun filter
sensor spines
point defense targeting relay
2xseeker missles
disruption pod

12 kroot carnivore squad 129 pts.
9 kroot hounds
sniper rounds

12 kroot carnivore squad 129 pts.
9 kroot hounds
sniper rounds
---elites---

3x crisis battlesuit 211 pts.

shas'vre
drone controller
missle pod
6xmissle drones
2x twin linked missle pods

riptide battlesuit 263 pts.
ion accelerator
2x shielded missle drones
drone controller
velocity tracker
---fast attack---

10x pathfinder team 163 pts.

shas'ui
recon drone
grav inhibitor drone

devilfish 147pts.
smart missle system
blacksun filter
sensor spines
point defense targeting relay
2xseeker missles
disruption pod

---heavy support---

hammerhead gunship 177pts.
submunition rounds
burst cannons
blacksun filter
sensor spines
point defense targeting relay
2xseeker missles
disruption pod

Currently eating this list alive

**Eldarain**

"Spawn more Overlords"

You have one Synapse model against Tau. How can that not end badly?

**Fragile**

Formosa wrote:
Hive tyrant 165
Wings 35, Miasmic cannon 25, stranglethorn cannon 15 regeneration 30
275

Why do you have Wings on your HT, you cannot expect to swoop if that is the only Synapse in your army. And if you are, you must be making every GC.

**Formosa**

so far only the biovores have failed synapse and they got pref enemy lol, but yes after making the list and starting the game I have made a mistake in only taking 1 synapse, but its live and learn, the tyrant is currently on 1 wound and all his pathfinders are dead

Automatically Appended Next Post:
plus this game was about trying out stuff, and that's how its going, what I have noticed so far is 4pt spinegaunts are pure awesome and venomthropes will be in everygame

**Krucho1986**

I feel like HBC Riptides just got a buff

**Formosa**

games over and I lost a total of 1 unit of spinegaunts, the riptide got a little too close to the 2 exocrines and just evaporated in a cloud of bioplasma, the spinegaunts with the aid of catalyst and onslaught tore the kroot and pathfinders to pieces (again they got a little too close) with shooting, venomthropes kept my army alive for a long time and hid behind the 2 exocrines so his markers could not get them, the biggest issue I have was with the sheer amount of str7 shots coming out of the batlesuits and the basic firewarriors when I got into 15", lesson learned however and I will be taking a non winged tyrant with the miasma cannon and a barbed strangler on foot along with some naked warriors next time and I will see how that does.

The stars of the game were the biovores, they took those firewarriors apart like they were nothing, I will swap out the 2 exocrines too for another unit of biovores and another harpy. viva la tyranids

**omerakk**

Glad the game worked out so well!

You probably should try to get some more synapse creatures though; 1 is extremely risky.

Eventually, someone will just take the full turn of shooting to kill that tyrant on turn one and force a never ending tide of IB rolls. Plus, having all of your smaller guys vulnerable to pinning or morale tests on top of that isn't fun either.

**Formosa**

yeah I was lucky to say the least haha, 1 synapse is stupid and god know why I only took the 1.

Incidently I took a flyrant earlier and it got warp lance/blast, nuked a land raider turn 1.... left the centurions as gooey nugget for my harpies.... I like warp lance on my flyrants...

**Leth**

I would think two big blocks of gargoyles would be great with flyrants. They are big enough to give most of your monsters cover saves(go wings) as well as fast and with fearless they can tie up a lot of units as well as blind them making it so they cant chew through them in combat

**Newtype Zero**

So I'm looking a playing in a 1000 point game this weekend with the new codex and this is the list I'm looking at. More than likely I'm going to be playing Space Marines or Eldar:

HQ:
Hive Tyrant 220
-Miasma Cannon
-Bone Sword & Lash Whip
-Electroshock Grubs
-Prehensile Pincer Tail

Troops:
Termagaunt Brood (30) 120
-Spinefists

Termagaunt Brood (30) 120
-Spine FIsts

Elite:
Zoanthrope Brood (3) 150

Venomthrope 45

Heavy Support:
Biovore Brood (3) 120

Tyrannofex 205
-Rupture Cannon
-Electroshock Grubs

If I was reading the original post correctly, I get the +1 melee attack if I take a tail bio-morph? With the Miasma Cannon and Thorax weapon, I figure this gives my Tyrant 2 weapons to fire during shooting and will give him 5 attacks at I8 in melee combat.
The 30 TL Spinefist shots/gaunt brood will hopefully prove useful to mow down infantry while the Zoanthropes and Tyrannofex will take down more heavily armored units. The Biovores are there for support while moving up the field and if I can keep each unit with a model within range for the Venomthrope I've suddenly got a 3+ Cover for everything behind my gaunt line and a 5+ for the line itself (provided it's not in cover).

Thoughts? Suggestions?

**Noctem**

I don't think that the tail weapon counts as an additional cc weapon for +1 attack, that's what I've heard anyways

**luke1705**

Thinking about making a list taking advantage of the Mawloc/Lictor combo. Shaping up to try something like this:

This is a 1850 list that I hope could be competitive:

Flyrant w/2 TL BL Dev - 230
Flyrant w/2 TL BL Dev - 230

Venomthrope - 90
Zoanthrope - 100
Lictor - 50

Tervigon - 195
Termagant x 30 - 120
Termagant x 30 - 120

Harpy - 135
Hive Crone - 155

Biovore x3 - 120
Mawloc - 140
Mawloc - 140

I really want to try and take a list that has Deathleaper in it, but I'm not sure if dropping a Flyrant is made up for by the decrease in points, which would allow an extra squad of zoans

**Nate668**

Unfortunately I don't think the lictor/mawloc combo will work with only a single lictor. One lictor is just too easy to kill. You're basically just throwing away 50 points.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

So wait, are spinefists better than fleshborers now that they both are free? Last edition no one took spinefists, but now I come here and most every list is equipping their termagaunts with them. What gives?

**stormoffires**

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So wait, are spinefists better than fleshborers now that they both are free? Last edition no one took spinefists, but now I come here and most every list is equipping their termagaunts with them. What gives?

i have the same question.. spinefist to me on gaunts do not seam useful.

**Deshkar**

If you wanna do a flying circuses, would it be interesting to run double Tyrannofexes with AG, Acid and Beetles? They will hit their torrent flamer on turn two as well, especially if you can get Onslaught on them. 5 FMCs, + 2 T6 2+ MC w fleet and torrent on turn two, is interesting.

**stormoffires**

what about taking Promethium relay pipes with pyrovores? making them all torrent?

**wuestenfux**

Deshkar wrote:
If you wanna do a flying circuses, would it be interesting to run double Tyrannofexes with AG, Acid and Beetles? They will hit their torrent flamer on turn two as well, especially if you can get Onslaught on them. 5 FMCs, + 2 T6 2+ MC w fleet and torrent on turn two, is interesting.

This could be an interesting list. How many points do you plan to play?

**Powercream**

Thoughts on this list? I've abandoned anti-air entirely in favour of solid synapse support and overwhelming the opponent's ground troops.

Hive Tyrant with HVC, Miasma Cannon, Old Adversary and Hive Commander with 2 Tyrant Guard
Tyranid Prime with Reaper of Obliterax and adrenal glands

30 termagants with 20 devourers
25 hormagaunts with poison
Tervigon

Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Venomthrope

Exocrine
Tyrannofex with electroshock grubs
Trygon Prime

1850 on the dot. The plan is to use the tervigon for backfield objectives and synapse. The gaunt blob is held in reserves and emerges either after the trygon or by outflanking. Everything else moves up in a huge mass, screening key targets with hormies and buffing cover with the venom. The prime is shepherded to close combat by the hormagaunts.and ensures they don't fall to IB if they start to outpace the main force.

**Looky Likey**

Is there going to be a golden ratio for how much synapse is enough to prevent a collapse?

What do people think of the Hive Commander power now? Outflanking Tevigons anybody?

**wuestenfux**

Looky Likey wrote:
Is there going to be a golden ratio for how much synapse is enough to prevent a collapse?

What do people think of the Hive Commander power now? Outflanking Tevigons anybody?

As said, synapse need to cover overlapping areas of your units. It will strongly depend on the list.