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 felixcat wrote:

I'm still wrapping my head around on how to beat Eldau and Taudar. I've had a few games and results have varied drastically. I will be playing on Sunday ...

So how would you deploy? I had reaper cc tyrant, desthleaper, 2 squads lictors, 3 stealer squads (two with broodlord), ten gants in a comms bastion, 2 crones and two mawlocs.

My opponent had buffmander, 3 broadsides (SMS HYM 2 drones, interceptor), riptide, WK, DA in serpents, seer, warp spiders, small outflanking kroot squad, aegis.

The problem here is that the broadside unit can rip my leaper to shreds if he is within 30" easily. If I DS or outflank he has interceptor. Sure horror can help if I can survive within distance but I sure cannot set up the Mawlocs safely for no scatter. I need to hide the flyrant and crones first turn also.

So how would you deploy and advance?

How you deploy will depend on terrain. Ideally, you have some LOS blocking ruins that you can infiltrate your deathleaper, lictors, and stealers into (broodlord out front to tank wounds). I would reserve your Mawlocs and Crones.

Place your Bastion just out of your deployment zone, blocking LOS to your Tyrant who is just inside your deployment zone. Your Gaunts can be in your tyrants synapse turn 1, and then go into the bastion turn 2. Turn 1 you do nothing but hide and move your Gaunts into the bastion (and fire bastion's bolters).

Turn 2 you start by deepstriking your Mawlocs (Mishap is not a problem). Broadsides are the best target, but remember you can only deep strike to a lower level. Target 2 might be the Buffmander. Bring in your crones. Move ALL of your infiltrating units right out into the open, and charge anywhere you can. Use Horror. Move your Tyrant out into the open. If he chooses to intercept your Mawlocs or Crones it isn't really a problem. I would use the crone's missiles to try to kill the Wave Serpent. In his next turn he is going to kill a lot, but you have a lot of units for him to kill, so some will survive. Turn 3 is yours. If your remaining units are strong enough, Don't be afraid to move your Crones into CC, or Vector strike them off the board. Let us know how it goes.

 Iechine wrote:
All the local Tyranid players here have kept running hordes and have been losing disastrously, blaming the codex and bringing other armies to the bunker. There's a teenager who last weekend 'quit' his Nids, saying he's
not won a game since the new codex. But I just see him running massive gant and gaunts blobs up the board.

I've been cleaning up on the other hand. The battlereports Ive filmed have been the losses I've had, and the victories have far outnumbered them. I'm running a hordeless Nid army because for me, right now its more fun.

I'm really curious how my Warrior list is going to do. I'm on leave right now and I've just finished painting 6 warriors and a Harpy, so I can field the list I want for the first time. I'll report back whether its a success or massive failure.

Let me know how it goes. Our playstyle seems similar and I'm looking into running warriors as well - probably backed up by slower MCs though.

Looking forward to hearing what you make of Warriors. Cheers.

Just thinking about the Tervigon and its viability in my build. Is there anyone here with the probability-fu to get an idea of the average gaunts one produces before crapping out? I suppose I'm asking how many free points of Gaunts will be produced, which gives an idea how much the Tervigon actually costs minus the free bodies. Might be useful information to look at the Tervigon in a different light- just how many points would you pay for one if it's just a big body with Synapse and a psychic power? Is the cost increase putting it in the overcosted zone, really? Curious to seeif anyone has the math brain to figure it out.

SBG wrote:


Let me know how it goes. Our playstyle seems similar and I'm looking into running warriors as well - probably backed up by slower MCs though.

Looking forward to hearing what you make of Warriors. Cheers.

Wife gave the go ahead to go to this tourney on Sunday http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/579342.page so Ill hopefully play a game today and tweak whatever then go test it against some more competitive builds.

aushlo wrote:
Just thinking about the Tervigon and its viability in my build. Is there anyone here with the probability-fu to get an idea of the average gaunts one produces before crapping out? I suppose I'm asking how many free points of Gaunts will be produced, which gives an idea how much the Tervigon actually costs minus the free bodies. Might be useful information to look at the Tervigon in a different light- just how many points would you pay for one if it's just a big body with Synapse and a psychic power? Is the cost increase putting it in the overcosted zone, really? Curious to seeif anyone has the math brain to figure it out.

About 24ish Gants on average. If memory serves.

aushlo wrote:
Just thinking about the Tervigon and its viability in my build. Is there anyone here with the probability-fu to get an idea of the average gaunts one produces before crapping out? I suppose I'm asking how many free points of Gaunts will be produced, which gives an idea how much the Tervigon actually costs minus the free bodies. Might be useful information to look at the Tervigon in a different light- just how many points would you pay for one if it's just a big body with Synapse and a psychic power? Is the cost increase putting it in the overcosted zone, really? Curious to seeif anyone has the math brain to figure it out.

EDIT: I was wrong...my equation keeps getting more complex...but the standard deviation changes wildly as you add more tervigons...from an average 15.75 each with two to an average 19.6 each with 8 tervigons.

Not trusting my own math, I'd say the 24 each makes perfect sense as I keep getting closer to it...but I think that it's wildly off when talking about a solo tervigon.

 ductvader wrote:

aushlo wrote:
Just thinking about the Tervigon and its viability in my build. Is there anyone here with the probability-fu to get an idea of the average gaunts one produces before crapping out? I suppose I'm asking how many free points of Gaunts will be produced, which gives an idea how much the Tervigon actually costs minus the free bodies. Might be useful information to look at the Tervigon in a different light- just how many points would you pay for one if it's just a big body with Synapse and a psychic power? Is the cost increase putting it in the overcosted zone, really? Curious to seeif anyone has the math brain to figure it out.

EDIT: I was wrong...my equation keeps getting more complex...but the standard deviation changes wildly as you add more tervigons...from an average 15.75 each with two to an average 19.6 each with 8 tervigons.

Not trusting my own math, I'd say the 24 each makes perfect sense as I keep getting closer to it...but I think that it's wildly off when talking about a solo tervigon.

Yeah, ive done no maths, I just remember seeing it from some old Math hammer, but that was back when Tervigons where spammed. Although I'm not sure why having multiple Tervigons would affect the average number of Gants spawned by a single Tervigon?

aushlo wrote:
Just thinking about the Tervigon and its viability in my build. Is there anyone here with the probability-fu to get an idea of the average gaunts one produces before crapping out? I suppose I'm asking how many free points of Gaunts will be produced, which gives an idea how much the Tervigon actually costs minus the free bodies. Might be useful information to look at the Tervigon in a different light- just how many points would you pay for one if it's just a big body with Synapse and a psychic power? Is the cost increase putting it in the overcosted zone, really? Curious to seeif anyone has the math brain to figure it out.

The calculaiton has been done on the tyrnaid hive a few times and I'm pretty sure it comes in as 23.

An average roll will be 10.5; the odds of not rolling a double are 5/6 squared IIRC... and I know I attempted the calculation, with a weighted average and got it wrong but I think whoever calculated 23, from my stats and probability knowledge, got it right. So it looks like, on average, you get 92 free points from your tervigon.

Finally, I'm always ready to be proven wrong, but the number of tervigons shouldn't affect the average number spawned per tervigon, altho of course they do smooth out the odds and make it more likely your spawning will be close to average.

How did the math work out?

Eldercaveman wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

aushlo wrote:
Just thinking about the Tervigon and its viability in my build. Is there anyone here with the probability-fu to get an idea of the average gaunts one produces before crapping out? I suppose I'm asking how many free points of Gaunts will be produced, which gives an idea how much the Tervigon actually costs minus the free bodies. Might be useful information to look at the Tervigon in a different light- just how many points would you pay for one if it's just a big body with Synapse and a psychic power? Is the cost increase putting it in the overcosted zone, really? Curious to seeif anyone has the math brain to figure it out.

EDIT: I was wrong...my equation keeps getting more complex...but the standard deviation changes wildly as you add more tervigons...from an average 15.75 each with two to an average 19.6 each with 8 tervigons.

Not trusting my own math, I'd say the 24 each makes perfect sense as I keep getting closer to it...but I think that it's wildly off when talking about a solo tervigon.

Yeah, ive done no maths, I just remember seeing it from some old Math hammer, but that was back when Tervigons where spammed. Although I'm not sure why having multiple Tervigons would affect the average number of Gants spawned by a single Tervigon?

Because there's a 50% chance you stop each turn.

I dumb down the 49/51% possibility to 50% a tervigon stops spawning every turn.

So...of two tervigons.
Turn 1: 2 Tervigons spawn 10.5 termagants each
Turn 2: 1 Tervigon spawns 10.5 termagants
Turn 3: 0 Tervigons spawn

31.5 termagants/2 tervigons = 15.75 gants

8 Tervigons
Turn 1: 8 Tervigons spawn 10.5 termagants each
Turn 2: 4Tervigons spawn 10.5 termagants each
Turn 3: 2Tervigons spawn 10.5 termagants each
Turn 4: 1 Tervigon spawn 10.5 termagants each
Turn 5: 0 Tervigons spawn

157.5 termagants/8 tervigons = 19.68 gants

The stop rate has to be included into the average production.

I could be way wrong...making it up as I go...

 ductvader wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

aushlo wrote:
Just thinking about the Tervigon and its viability in my build. Is there anyone here with the probability-fu to get an idea of the average gaunts one produces before crapping out? I suppose I'm asking how many free points of Gaunts will be produced, which gives an idea how much the Tervigon actually costs minus the free bodies. Might be useful information to look at the Tervigon in a different light- just how many points would you pay for one if it's just a big body with Synapse and a psychic power? Is the cost increase putting it in the overcosted zone, really? Curious to seeif anyone has the math brain to figure it out.

EDIT: I was wrong...my equation keeps getting more complex...but the standard deviation changes wildly as you add more tervigons...from an average 15.75 each with two to an average 19.6 each with 8 tervigons.

Not trusting my own math, I'd say the 24 each makes perfect sense as I keep getting closer to it...but I think that it's wildly off when talking about a solo tervigon.

Yeah, ive done no maths, I just remember seeing it from some old Math hammer, but that was back when Tervigons where spammed. Although I'm not sure why having multiple Tervigons would affect the average number of Gants spawned by a single Tervigon?

Because there's a 50% chance you stop each turn.

I dumb down the 49/51% possibility to 50% a tervigon stops spawning every turn.

So...of two tervigons.
Turn 1: 2 Tervigons spawn 10.5 termagants each
Turn 2: 1 Tervigon spawns 10.5 termagants
Turn 3: 0 Tervigons spawn

31.5 termagants/2 tervigons = 15.75 gants

8 Tervigons
Turn 1: 8 Tervigons spawn 10.5 termagants each
Turn 2: 4Tervigons spawn 10.5 termagants each
Turn 3: 2Tervigons spawn 10.5 termagants each
Turn 4: 1 Tervigon spawn 10.5 termagants each
Turn 5: 0 Tervigons spawn

157.5 termagants/8 tervigons = 19.68 gants

The stop rate has to be included into the average production.

I could be way wrong...making it up as I go...

I mean I'm hopeless at maths and I don't even try to attempt even the most basic calculations without a calculator. Sk you could well be right and it's just beyond my understanding.

Surely a Tervigon has better odds than that to spawn for 2 Turns, in that first example you're giving them a 50% chance to roll doubles.

I think there's a proper calculation here:

http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/39869?page=1

I calculated that the odds of getting three different numbers for three dice is 1 x 5/6 x 4/6 (think about it)... which makes 0.5555.

So you need to do a kind of wieghted average of
0.555 x 10.5.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
I think there's a proper calculation here:

http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/39869?page=1

I calculated that the odds of getting three different numbers for three dice is 1 x 5/6 x 4/6 (think about it)... which makes 0.5555.

So you need to do a kind of wieghted average of
0.555 x 10.5.

he factors in # of tervigons as infinity...which is just awful...standard deviations would have been much more helpful

But hey, it's much more than I can do.

Thanks for the link though!

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
I think there's a proper calculation here:

http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/39869?page=1

I calculated that the odds of getting three different numbers for three dice is 1 x 5/6 x 4/6 (think about it)... which makes 0.5555.

So you need to do a kind of wieghted average of
0.555 x 10.5.

What you said ^^^^***


What I read

I think there's a proper calculation here:
http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/39869?page=1

I calculated that the odds of "................................. He's dead Jim..

@ductvader, dont' want to divert this thread any more, I certainly understand your posts less than I do the maths!

But I do believe that there's only a 44% chance you stop each turn.
Your roll your first die.
Second die: chance of a double is 1/6
THird die: chance of a double is 2/6... (because there are two numbers there already)
CHance of no doubles = 5/6 x 2/3 = 55%, which gives a very different result from 50%.

55% sounds right on...thanks...but with such small numbers (1-5 tervigons) I would assume 50/50 in any given game.

Really, this just shows that you need multiple for reliability.

EDIT: And we're not really diverting...

I did an excel calculation and I get 22.79662 Gaunts produced, which means that a Tervigon's true cost is 103.8135 points.

You have to factor in the % chance that they do not double out as well as the % chance that the game goes to turns 6 and 7.
Breakdown rounded to 2 decimal places
Round 1: 10.5 Gaunts
Round 2: .55 * 10.5 = 5.83 Gaunts
Round 3: .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 3.24 Gaunts
Round 4: .55 * .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 1.8 Gaunts
Round 5: .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 1 Gaunt
Round 6: 2/3 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 0.37 Gaunts
Round 7: .5 * 2/3 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 0.05 Gaunts

wolvesoffenris wrote:
I did an excel calculation and I get 22.79662 Gaunts produced, which means that a Tervigon's true cost is 103.8135 points.

You have to factor in the % chance that they do not double out as well as the % chance that the game goes to turns 6 and 7.
Breakdown rounded to 2 decimal places
Round 1: 10.5 Gaunts
Round 2: .55 * 10.5 = 5.83 Gaunts
Round 3: .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 3.24 Gaunts
Round 4: .55 * .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 1.8 Gaunts
Round 5: .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 1 Gaunt
Round 6: 2/3 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 0.37 Gaunts
Round 7: .5 * 2/3 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 0.05 Gaunts

Perfect...103? Pretty solid.

 ductvader wrote:

 AdeptSister wrote:

 ductvader wrote:


How many termagants do you field?

I generally stay in the 60-90 range.

Question: Have you been having success with using a horde? A lot of the lists on Dakka seem to focus on the TMCs and not the gants. I was hoping that was because of tournament time limits, not effectiveness.

I win more than I lose?

Tyranids pretty much can't powerbuild...the more you try the worst your list gets.

(The only "powerbuild" I've had success with is 18 Raveners and 9 Shrikes...the game was over Turn 2)



But in general, a horde does what it always does...takes damage and just keep on truckin'...Just be sure you attack you're enemy's MC killers with them...too many people fight fire with fire or fire with with water when they should be fighting it with dirt.

EDIT: A sidenote to those who have not tried him yet: The Swarmlord is godlike for a Swarm...sheer power for your entire army...preferred enemy or monster hunter on any nearby unit is ridiculous...You just can't spearhead with him like we used to. He needs to lead from the center.

But giving out a buff and 3 psychic powers a turn is nothing less than magnanimous...I'm never playing without him again if I can help it.

What exactly are you doing with this swarmlord list and what does it look like? It's encouraging to hear someone having success with a horde force when so many others are failing with them

Here we go:



HQ
-Swarmlord
---3 Tyrant Guard

TROOP
-Tervigon
-30 Termagants
-30 Hormagaunts
-30 Hormagaunts
-3 Warriors (Barbed Strangler)

ELITE
-Venomthrope
-Venomthrope
-3 Zoanthropes

HEAVY
-2 Carnifex (TL Devourers, Stranglethorn Cannon)
-Exocrine

1850/1850



Yeah, so my only AA is a preferred enemy Exocrine, but I've been finding that most of my opponents put AA in their list...not flyers. So taking Flyers myself didn't make sense.

Hormagaunts are ridiculous when you pay their cheap cheap points and apply preferred enemy, furious charge, or monster hunter to them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
...and knowing when to take dominion has become a science in itself for me...are there gaps in the terrain where I'll need synapse more than catalyst or so on?...okay...dominion-ing up.

Dakkaflyrant
BS/LW Flyrant with Hive Commander
Tervigon with Miasma
Gants
6 Warriors w/Deathspitter/Barbed Strangler
Dakkafex x2
Dakkafex x2
Tyrannofex

With some Regen and Thorax weapons sprinkled in - I'm thinking of taking this to a tournament tomorrow. I don't think I'll have my Exocrine ready but if everyone thinks it'd be that much better than the Tyranno I'll try and power through it to get it on the table (don't have to finish it, just prime/base coat/finish assembly)

wolvesoffenris wrote:
I did an excel calculation and I get 22.79662 Gaunts produced, which means that a Tervigon's true cost is 103.8135 points.

You have to factor in the % chance that they do not double out as well as the % chance that the game goes to turns 6 and 7.
Breakdown rounded to 2 decimal places
Round 1: 10.5 Gaunts
Round 2: .55 * 10.5 = 5.83 Gaunts
Round 3: .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 3.24 Gaunts
Round 4: .55 * .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 1.8 Gaunts
Round 5: .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 1 Gaunt
Round 6: 2/3 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 0.37 Gaunts
Round 7: .5 * 2/3 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 0.05 Gaunts

This is a good quick way to do it.

I've used some other methods and developed the following:

A data set of 40,000 results gives:



Stats:
Average (Total // Broods) = 23.2 // 2.2
StDev (Total // Broods) = 16.6 // 1.5
10th Percentile (Total // Broods) = 7 // 1
25th Percentile (Total // Broods) = 11 // 1
50th Percentile (Total // Broods) = 18 // 2
75th Percentile (Total // Broods) = 31 // 3
90th Percentile (Total // Broods) = 47 // 4

What this tells me is that I can expect between 11 and 31 gants in most games. Also, bringing 31 extra will suffice for 75% of games (even more if I'm not spawning every turn). The average is quite different than 50th percentile as when you get higher number, they tend to be really high (which also explains the high Stdev).

Here is another plot, using a theoretical Beta General distribution generated from a program known as @Risk.


(The actual maximum number that can be produced is 108, [15+15+15+15+15+15+18] but I limited it to 103, either way, it won't change much)

wolvesoffenris wrote:
I did an excel calculation and I get 22.79662 Gaunts produced, which means that a Tervigon's true cost is 103.8135 points.

You have to factor in the % chance that they do not double out as well as the % chance that the game goes to turns 6 and 7.
Breakdown rounded to 2 decimal places
Round 1: 10.5 Gaunts
Round 2: .55 * 10.5 = 5.83 Gaunts
Round 3: .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 3.24 Gaunts
Round 4: .55 * .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 1.8 Gaunts
Round 5: .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 1 Gaunt
Round 6: 2/3 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 0.37 Gaunts
Round 7: .5 * 2/3 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * .55 * 10.5 = 0.05 Gaunts

That is how I calculate it. The mean is 22.80. However, the median is closer to 14. 44% of Tervs stop after 1 spawn (3 min, 8 median, 10.5 average, 18 max). 44% * 56% = 24.64% stop after 2 spawns (9 Min 21 average, 33 max), So the median is between 10.5 and 21, and I ballpark it at 14. Maybe someone can remind me of how to calculate a median without enumerating all of the possible values.

ETA, NamelessBard has better info above me.

 ductvader wrote:

 AdeptSister wrote:


EDIT: A sidenote to those who have not tried him yet: The Swarmlord is godlike for a Swarm...sheer power for your entire army...preferred enemy or monster hunter on any nearby unit is ridiculous...You just can't spearhead with him like we used to. He needs to lead from the center.

But giving out a buff and 3 psychic powers a turn is nothing less than magnanimous...I'm never playing without him again if I can help it.

What exactly are you doing with this swarmlord list and what does it look like? It's encouraging to hear someone having success with a horde force when so many others are failing with them

I have been having success with Swarmlord in a pseudo-horde as well. I really have wanted to make the swarm work, as I have a lot of fun fielding all my Gants/Gaunts and have actually have quite a bit of success with my list so far. I am happy to see that others have had success with Swarmlord in a swarm build, as I agree he brings a lot to the table in such a list. The extra powers and huge Synapse range in the center of your horde is a nice anchor to push your models forward. My games so far have been close wins, with two draws (due to really stupid mistakes), so i've been really happy with the success of my list so far (especially because it's been really fun to play). Honestly, though, I will be blown off the table by Tau power builds, but against other 6E books I have had lots of success.

Here is my list:



I have a lot of points in upgrades to play around with. It's possible to drop Thorax Swarms/Regen to fit in a second Zoanthrope/Venomthrope, or Hive Commander if I want to. Anyway, the fast Gaunts/Gargs are really nice to tie stuff down for Swarmlord and the T-fex. If I were to bump this up in points, I would probably try to fit in a second Mawloc to really try and get some mileage out of Swarmlord's +1 to reserve rolls.

== HQ ==
Hive Tyrant (1) - Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Wings, Hive Commander = 250 pts.
Hive Tyrant (1) - Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Wings, Hive Commander = 250 pts.

== Elites ==
Zoanthrope (1) = 50 pts.

== Troops ==
Tervigon (1) - Stinger Salvo, Scything Talons, Taken As Troops = 195 pts.
Termagant Brood (30) - Devourer = 240 pts.
Termagant Brood (20) - Devourer = 160 pts.
Termagant Brood (10) - Fleshborer = 40 pts.

== Fast Attack ==
Hive Crone (1) = 155 pts.
Harpy (1) - Twin-Linked Stranglethorn Cannon = 135 pts.

== Heavy Support ==
Mawloc (1) = 140 pts.
Mawloc (1) = 140 pts.
Bastion w/comms = 95

1850!


Going to Tournament in early March, I think my turn 2 will surprise people!

Stormbreed wrote:
== HQ ==
Termagant Brood (30) - Devourer = 240 pts.
Termagant Brood (20) - Devourer = 160 pts.

I assume these are your outflankers. If so, you could consider running them like this:

Termagant Brood (30) - 10 Flesborer/spinefist, 20 Devourer = 200 pts.
Termagant Brood (30) - 10 Flesborer/spinefist, 20 Devourer = 200 pts.

It is the same number of points, and you have a few cheap Gants to take wounds out front.

My Tervigon has the ability to defy probability and has managed a 100% chance to roll doubles with the new book.

My tervie has been having mixed results, including a 1,3,1 in the first turn.

 Iechine wrote:
All the local Tyranid players here have kept running hordes and have been losing disastrously, blaming the codex and bringing other armies to the bunker. There's a teenager who last weekend 'quit' his Nids, saying he's
not won a game since the new codex. But I just see him running massive gant and gaunts blobs up the board.

I've been cleaning up on the other hand. The battlereports Ive filmed have been the losses I've had, and the victories have far outnumbered them. I'm running a hordeless Nid army because for me, right now its more fun.

I'm really curious how my Warrior list is going to do. I'm on leave right now and I've just finished painting 6 warriors and a Harpy, so I can field the list I want for the first time. I'll report back whether its a success or massive failure.

How are you going to use your warriors?

Stormbreed wrote:


Going to Tournament in early March, I think my turn 2 will surprise people!

So, I don't know what your local meta is like, but can I just say that I have been immensely unimpressed with Devilgaunts. Their cost is just not worth it. They seem bloated-expensive already, plus to give them any functionality there is the Hive Commander-tax. And for what? Yes, they have a silly amount of low-powered dakka, but those shots can't do much of anything to vehicles, and while they'll chip away at most other things, so would whatever MC, FMC, etc, you could buy for their points instead.

Unless your local meta is very infantry heavy, i'd leave the Devilgaunts at home. In fact, i'm so unimpressed with Gants in bulk in general, and the synapse they utterly require to reliably hold objectives, that despite painting 80 of the damn things in the last month, I have doubled-down on my use of Genestealers as my troops.

Synapse-less, better deployment options (can show up later, etc...), and do just fine hunkered down in the back-field on their own. Those extra points and points freed from people handcuffing themselves to a Tervigon buys a nice chunk of heavy hitters for offense.