Switch Theme:

The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Stormbreed wrote:


Going to Tournament in early March, I think my turn 2 will surprise people!


So, I don't know what your local meta is like, but can I just say that I have been immensely unimpressed with Devilgaunts. Their cost is just not worth it. They seem bloated-expensive already, plus to give them any functionality there is the Hive Commander-tax. And for what? Yes, they have a silly amount of low-powered dakka, but those shots can't do much of anything to vehicles, and while they'll chip away at most other things, so would whatever MC, FMC, etc, you could buy for their points instead.

Unless your local meta is very infantry heavy, i'd leave the Devilgaunts at home. In fact, i'm so unimpressed with Gants in bulk in general, and the synapse they utterly require to reliably hold objectives, that despite painting 80 of the damn things in the last month, I have doubled-down on my use of Genestealers as my troops.

Synapse-less, better deployment options (can show up later, etc...), and do just fine hunkered down in the back-field on their own. Those extra points and points freed from people handcuffing themselves to a Tervigon buys a nice chunk of heavy hitters for offense.


Devils are very nice against the 2 extreme units: TEQ elites and GEQ blobs. For the first the sheer number of saves starts kill things, and for the second you are putting out enough wounds break them. It is also good against rear arm of most transports and a few tanks. They tend to lose effectiveness against middle of the road units.
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine



Los Angeles, CA

barnowl wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Stormbreed wrote:


Going to Tournament in early March, I think my turn 2 will surprise people!


So, I don't know what your local meta is like, but can I just say that I have been immensely unimpressed with Devilgaunts. Their cost is just not worth it. They seem bloated-expensive already, plus to give them any functionality there is the Hive Commander-tax. And for what? Yes, they have a silly amount of low-powered dakka, but those shots can't do much of anything to vehicles, and while they'll chip away at most other things, so would whatever MC, FMC, etc, you could buy for their points instead.

Unless your local meta is very infantry heavy, i'd leave the Devilgaunts at home. In fact, i'm so unimpressed with Gants in bulk in general, and the synapse they utterly require to reliably hold objectives, that despite painting 80 of the damn things in the last month, I have doubled-down on my use of Genestealers as my troops.

Synapse-less, better deployment options (can show up later, etc...), and do just fine hunkered down in the back-field on their own. Those extra points and points freed from people handcuffing themselves to a Tervigon buys a nice chunk of heavy hitters for offense.


Devils are very nice against the 2 extreme units: TEQ elites and GEQ blobs. For the first the sheer number of saves starts kill things, and for the second you are putting out enough wounds break them. It is also good against rear arm of most transports and a few tanks. They tend to lose effectiveness against middle of the road units.


So if I'm mostly facing Marines that only use Terminators about 50% of the time, I may want to skip devilgaunts?

6400 Pts
4300 Pts
3200 Pts
2600 Pts

3080 Pts 30k
2460 Pts AoS Chaos Grand Alliance
2680 Pts AoS Sylvaneth 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord





Eureka California

 ductvader wrote:
 tetrisphreak wrote:
bodazoka wrote:
 Abandon wrote:
Devilgants
-Though 25% more in price, I've found adding toxin Sacs is generally worth it. They become a double threat and getting them into melee makes synapse less of and issue.


Would you agree they are much more effective v Space Marines and not so much v Elder/Tau? I am not 100% sure but the math's seem to tell me that using them in games v Marine's or other T4 models is a no brainer, but againt's T3 it is allot less effective?


VS tau/eldar/GEQ, you get to re-roll wounds with poison on the gants. I'd say that makes it more useful in those sorts of matchups, rather than less. I haven't done any mathhammer to prove that though.


It would be worth it against 10 man Dire Avenger squads, Wraith, Guardian Defender Blobs, or Storm Guardians...but overkill against Fire Warriors, Kroot, 5DA, Rangers or 10 Guardian Defenders.


I never even got them into CC but the threat was enough to manipulate my opponents movement which is just as good.

My theory used to be to simply throw enough bodies at them but that doesn't work by itself any more. Now I'm all about options. Strategic options, tactical flexibility, board control, etc. Options give you flexibility. Options allow you to take greater advantage of opportunities. Options give you greater board control and allow you to exorcise that control more optimally.

IMO, Options > Numbers.

This is not to say that weight of numbers does not play it's part but rather that flexibility should not be sacrificed to gain those numbers.

Example:

Your opponent wants to assault your Tyrannofex with his Wraithknight. The Tyrannofex is a major threat to his infantry and he needs to stop it this turn and there's a unit of 20 Devilgants near the T-fex.... (assume everything else is otherwise occupied)
-Regardless of their ranged weapon there is no way the Devilgants pose a threat to the Wraith knight and the worst they can do is hold it up for a few turns. He assaults and now your T-fex is going to die. The only option you have is to sacrifice your Devilgants as well and delay the Wraithknight for several turns. Not a good trade.
-Instead of 20 Devilgants there are 15 Toxic Devilgants. This is an entirely different scenario. Even between shooting and assault the opponent cannot guarantee the death of the T-fex and is likely to lose the Wraithknight if he tries. The threat of counter assault with 30 poisoned attacks is to great as at best he's looking at a bad trade points wise and at worst a loss with no real gain. Not wanting to lose his Wraithknight he does something else with it and the T-fex is allowed to proceed with the decimation of his infantry.

Options. Not only do they give you more flexibility but they lessen the opponents as well granting you more control over the battle. The Wraithknight could be replaced with any number of units or the situation could be rearranged any number of ways.

Multi-functional units are where it's at IMO starting with our best Swiss Army Knife, the Dakka Flyrant. Mobility, melee, psychic, survivability and shooty all wrapped up in a neat little package. While you can find units within the codex that are point for point better at any one or two of these things the real strength is in its flexibility. It goes where it needs to be and can do what needs to be done. As simple as that. This is what you want from a unit. Multipurpose units that limit limit your opponents options in multiple ways. The more roles a unit can fill the more adaptive it is to a changing battlefield, the more tactics you have available, etc.

This is not to say 'take all options on everything' either. Point efficiency is also paramount after all so a good balance should be found. As far as the gaunts/gants go, I believe this is the Toxic Devilgant.

This is my latest evolution of thought on the ever evolving swarm.

-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Portland, OR

Thanks for the mathery, y'all. So if we pretend for a minute that a Tervigon is actually a 103 point model without spawning, does it still seem viable? I have trouble not leaning toward dozens of cheap bodies and some warriors myself, for so many points.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

aushlo wrote:
Thanks for the mathery, y'all. So if we pretend for a minute that a Tervigon is actually a 103 point model without spawning, does it still seem viable? I have trouble not leaning toward dozens of cheap bodies and some warriors myself, for so many points.


103 points for a T6 6W Monsterous Creature, that can score, give synapse, and have a psychic power? Yes please.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Portland, OR

Have to keep in mind it's only scoring with the 120 point gaunt tax, though. I honestly don't think I'd take it over twenty plus gaunts/gants, the 3+ save makes T6 less impressive in my experience. I think it makes sense in Nidzilla style lists (which, to be fair, is the current leaning overall), but I think it's oddly out of place in a swarm of wee bugs- to me it has a similar 'kick me' sign pasted to its forehead to Flyrant but with less resilience. I'd like to goof around with one anyway, see what it can do. I'm thinking the Tyrannofex is the better build out of the kit for my needs.
   
Made in lt
Brainy Zoanthrope






I am convinced that after the abuse the GW unleashed on us with the new codex, they really don't deserve any of our money in form of model buys, just like you wouldn't buy candies from candyman who raped your daughter (even if it's chocolate).
Now I don't say we shoudn't play tyranid, or try to construct as good lists as possible; just not buying new Gw stuff (buying from people, ebay or converting, say, trygon into crone to try it out).
If the GW only understands feedback in form of sales drop, it is what we should do.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.

5000pts
2000pts
7000pts
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Got a bonus battle report exclusively for all you Nid players. Yes, it's a full-blown Jy2 battle report that can only be seen here in this thread.


Got a rematch in against Sean's (aka GTKA666) Eldar. The very first time I played against him, he almost beat my triple-flyrant double-FOC list back when Tyranids were considered much stronger:

2000-pt Golden Throne Practice Game - GTKA666's Footdar vs Splinter Fleet Pandorzilla


This time, it is with my new bugs and single-FOC only. Can Tyranids stand up to one of the most powerful armies currently? We shall find out.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


1750 Hive Fleet Pandora vs Hybrid Eldar


1750 Tyranids (My list)



Flyrant - 2x TL-D's - Catalyst, Paroxysm, Scoring
Flyrant - 2x TL-D's - Catalyst, Dominion

Venomthrope
Zoanthrope - Dominion

Tervigon - Paroxysm
30x Termagants
10x Termagants

Hive Crone

2x Dakkafexes
Mawloc
Mawloc

Bastion - Comms Relay



1750 Eldar

This is an approximation of his list.

Avatar - Fast Shot
Farseer - Doom, Guide, Prescience, Not sure about his Warlord trait

10x Harlequins - Shadowseer, all with Kisses

6-8x Dire Avengers
10x Guardians
Wave Serpent - TL-Scatters, Shuriken Cannon, Holo-fields
10x Guardians
Wave Serpent - TL-Scatters, Shuriken Cannon, Holo-fields

9x Warp Spiders

Fire Prism - Holo-fields
3x War Walkers - 2x Scatters each

Aegis Defense Line - Quad-guns


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: The Relic


Deployment: Hammer & Anvil


Initiative: Tyranids


-------------------------------------------------------------------


PRE-GAME THOUGHTS:

Even though Sean doesn't play a typical Eldar power-build, his army does have a scary amount of firepower (at least to us bugs). He's got plenty of shooting and a lot of rending. He's also got the Avatar with 2 melta shots that is a huge threat to my bastion. War walkers are probably his most dangerous shooters. They've got to go pronto. 2nd would be his warp spiders, who will be a huge pain in the rear. With the wave serpents, I don't think any of my flyers are going to survive for very long. Then he's got the harlequins. If you've never played against harlequins before, I'm telling you right now, take them out and do it early. Once they get into assault, they can really mess up your bugs and then they can leave combat almost anytime they want to thanks to Hit-&-Run. Oh, and the Avatar is no slouch in combat either. Overall, my opponent has got a lot of very dangerous and high-priority targets, and that's not even counting his Farseer yet, who is a deadly force-multiplier in his own right.

However, it isn't all doom-&-gloom. I lucked out getting Catalyst on both flyrants. We're playing a mission, the Relic, where Tyranids traditionally tend to do well. I've also got a scoring flyrant thanks to his Warlord trait. Lastly, I'm going 1st and will get a chance to "power-up" as well as the alpha-strike against Sean's army. Also, I've got the experience advantage over my opponent. He hasn't played against the new Tyranids yet whereas I've got plenty of experience playing against Eldar.

This battle could go either ways. I think that if my mawlocs hit true, I may be able to take this battle. However, if even 1 of them does poorly, my opponent has the firepower to blow away my army, and that is me talking from experience.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:

Spoiler:

Tyranid deployment. Mawlocs in reserves.

I actually forget to bring most of my gants with the exception of the 20 gants deployed, with 10 more "invisible" gants just behind them. Also, hiding in the ruins where the Hive Crone is are 10 more "invisible" gants who basically remain there for almost the entire game.


Eldar deployment. I am actually surprised that my opponent deployed everything. Personally, I would deepstrike the warp spiders into my backfield, but I can see why he would want them deployed. He needs all the firepower on Turn 1 that he can get!


Overview of our deployment.




-------------------------------------------------------------------


Tyranids 1

Spoiler:

I decide to go all out. I don't normally play my flyrants this aggressively but I make an exception in this case. Not only does my non-Warlord flyrant fails to cast Catalyst, but he suffers 1W from Perils as well.

The reason I am risking my flyrants is to act as a smokescreen. Keep his forces busy while playing the game of pass-the-buck (in this case, the Relic) back towards my tervigon hiding behind the bastion. Keep in mind that my Warlord is scoring. Thus, I will be using him as the 1st unit to hand-off the Relic.


Focus-fire from both flyrants take out the Avatar for First Blood.


I also manage 1 glance with the hive crone tentaclids.


Finally, I shoot down 1 harlequin.

Shooting is not that great, but I'll take First Blood. If only I had Onslaught for my dakkafexes.




Eldar 1

Spoiler:

Eldar movement. He disembarks 1 unit of guardians. Boy, I wish I had my biovores here with me.

This turn is going to hurt.


It takes the firepower of his entire army, but he is able to take out both flyrants (though it took the very last shot from his very last unit, the fire prism, to down my last flyrant).

I make a huge blunder here. No, not by playing my flyrants so aggressively. I forget about Night-fight. Half of his units were more than 12" away from my flyrants. That means I could have taken 2+ cover (area terrain + Shroud + Stealth) from their shooting as opposed to 3+ armor. It means that one of my flyrants would have survived. Oh well, I guess I just like to play against one of our toughest matchups with a handicap.

Warp spiders then do their Assault jetpack move towards my deployment zone. My opponent makes a mistake as well. I think he might have forgotten about my mawlocs as he doesn't spread out his units (either that or he didn't care).




Tyranids 2

Spoiler:

1 mawlocs lands dead-on and takes out 7 spiders. Yes!


Actually, they both do. This one takes out 8 harlequins.

Man, this is the best my mawlocs have ever done! Flyrants? Flyrants who?

Tervigon casts Paroxysm on the Farseer's unit. He fails to deny.


Tervigon spawns 12 gants, who go grab the Relic. They continue to pass it back by picking it up, passing it back to a model in base and then dropping it 1" further towards my tervigon.

Sorry, but like I said, I forgot to bring most of my gants and had to proxy (using kroots).


The crone vector-strikes and stuns the wave serpent. He then flames the guardians and kill 6.


Zoan successfully Warp Blasts the spiders off the table and the bastion heavy bolter takes out the lone, surviving harlequin. Hell yeah! 2 large Eldar threats, gone just like that!

Dakkafexes blast his Warlord's unit but they go-to-ground for 2+ cover. I believe I kill 1 or 2 dire avengers only.


Lastly, mawloc runs. So do the guardians. Lol.




Eldar 2

Spoiler:

The Eldar focus on my hive crone but only manage to take 2W off from it.


They do, however, manage to take out 1 mawloc, mainly with rending shots.


They also take out 3 gants. I'm not going to lose any sleep over that. Lol.




Tyranids 3

Spoiler:

My crone vector-strikes the walkers. I only manage to shake 1 of them. The crone then flies off the table.

I also burrow with my mawloc.


The Relic finally makes it back to the tervigon, though he doesn't currently hold it yet. It's just on the ground underneath him at this point.

Venomthrope disembarks from the bastion and the zoanthrope embarks into it.


Do you hear that? That's the sound of doom heading towards the Eldar lines.


Bastion takes out 1 guardian (they regrouped last turn). Dakkafexes take out 3 dire avengers, who go-to-ground once again.


My fexes then make the multi-assault through difficult terrain (rolled a 4,5,6).


Unfortunately, they whiff in combat and only kill 1 from each unit.


But that is enough to send the guardians packing, where they will not regroup for the rest of the game (they need insane courage 1,1 to regroup).




Eldar 3

Spoiler:

At this point, my opponent is desperate. I've got the Relic secured in my deployment zone and 2 dakkafexes rampaging in his backfield. He decides to send his guardians into assault after his Warlord casts Doom on my fexes.


His last hurrah bears some fruit as he is able to shoot down my tervigon due to some poor saves on my part (I fail 5 out of 6 saves just against 1 wave serpent!!!). The explosion wipes out the smaller gant unit and takes out 6 from my big 30-gant unit. He also takes out my venomthrope because I forget to run him into safety last turn.


Finally, he charges in with this guardians.


They don't do jack. I wipe out his Warlord's unit and then sweep the guardians.

That was the straw that broke the camel's back.




Tyranids 4

Spoiler:

Hive crone comes in. He fires the rest of his tentaclids at the serpent with just 1 HP remaining and takes it out.


Mawloc comes in as well but scatters.


My 10-gant brood finally comes out. The 30-gant brood goes to grab the Relic. He's going to have to kill 20+ gants before he can knock the last one off of the Relic.


Carnifexes go to finish off his army.


But I never get the chance to because at this point, my opponent concedes.





Complete Domination by Hive Fleet Pandora!!!





Eldar 4

Spoiler:
Sorry, but the game ended last turn.




Tyranids 5

Spoiler:
Sorry, but the game ended last turn.




Eldar 5

Spoiler:
Sorry, but the game ended last turn.




This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/02/17 16:53:32



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

 Ratliker wrote:
I am convinced that after the abuse the GW unleashed on us with the new codex, they really don't deserve any of our money in form of model buys, just like you wouldn't buy candies from candyman who raped your daughter (even if it's chocolate).
Now I don't say we shoudn't play tyranid, or try to construct as good lists as possible; just not buying new Gw stuff (buying from people, ebay or converting, say, trygon into crone to try it out).
If the GW only understands feedback in form of sales drop, it is what we should do.


This is a thread about the Stremgths of the new Nids, you should bash else where.

Also there is never a good time to make a rape analogy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can't wait Jy!
Also that is a beautiful looking Crone!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/15 08:13:16


   
Made in us
Huge Hierodule





Louisiana

Omg I love the paint on that crone. I'm eager to see the report as well!

Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it. 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





We know it is about the strength of the new Nids. But honestly how do you win consistently with Nids. Looking at the list played at the LVO by some top players, mind you, aside from trying to kill the other guy's scoring units, contest with mawlocks and trying to troubleshoot with flyrants crones while holding on for dear life to your own objectives there is no plan. tIt is a lot of if's that have to come together to work if we are looking to beat the top four armies ( Eldar/Tau/Daemons/IG). I see many suggetions on this thread but I find it hard to be optimistic.


 
   
Made in us
Huge Hierodule





Louisiana

 felixcat wrote:
We know it is about the strength of the new Nids. But honestly how do you win consistently with Nids. Looking at the list played at the LVO by some top players, mind you, aside from trying to kill the other guy's scoring units, contest with mawlocks and trying to troubleshoot with flyrants crones while holding on for dear life to your own objectives there is no plan. tIt is a lot of if's that have to come together to work if we are looking to beat the top four armies ( Eldar/Tau/Daemons/IG). I see many suggetions on this thread but I find it hard to be optimistic.



We win like we always did before- overload the enemy with scoring units while we focus on killing theirs.

Adding things like a firestorm redoubt or a couple vengeance weapon batteries help add some good damage output.

Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it. 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




I have always wanted to play the bugs but never did. Now I've decided to give them a try. I just don't like painting, so I'm looking for advice how to do this in an easy way, ie. with as few models as possible?

We usually play at 1500 points, this is what I have in mind:

HQ
2 Flyrants with 2 TL Devourers 460

Elite
Venomthrope 45
2 Zoanthropes 100

Heavy support
2 Carnifex with 2 TL Devourers 300
Tyrannofex with adrenal and another template weapon 200

Leaves me with around 400 pts.

How to fill up the troops? Originally I thought of having a Tervigon and 30 Termagants, but painting 40 little bugs sounds quite annoying and time consuming (with my skill).

Could I just run some genestealers instead? Or maybe have Flyrant be a hive commander and 2 groups of 3 Tyranid warriors?

How about:

FA
Hive Crone 155

Troops
4 Tyranid warriors with 3 Deathspitter and Barbed strangler 145
3 Tyranid warriors 90

Brings me to 1495 points and only 16 models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/15 14:34:06


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





We win like we always did before- overload the enemy with scoring units while we focus on killing theirs.


That was the approach we used yes. But Tervigon and gants are not quite the same anymore are they? Amd IB has changed as well. So we do need to adjust our thinking. I'm not saying nids cannot win - I'm saying that have become a lot harder to play and much less forgiving.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Eldercaveman wrote:
aushlo wrote:
Thanks for the mathery, y'all. So if we pretend for a minute that a Tervigon is actually a 103 point model without spawning, does it still seem viable? I have trouble not leaning toward dozens of cheap bodies and some warriors myself, for so many points.


103 points for a T6 6W Monsterous Creature, that can score, give synapse, and have a psychic power? Yes please.


Yes, but by the logic that was "reduce" the Terv's cost by the average number of Gants it will create, we also have to add the number of Gants it'll tend to nuke when/if it dies. That is a terrible way to calculate its value, IMO.

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
Made in de
Masculine Male Wych






NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
aushlo wrote:
Thanks for the mathery, y'all. So if we pretend for a minute that a Tervigon is actually a 103 point model without spawning, does it still seem viable? I have trouble not leaning toward dozens of cheap bodies and some warriors myself, for so many points.


103 points for a T6 6W Monsterous Creature, that can score, give synapse, and have a psychic power? Yes please.


Yes, but by the logic that was "reduce" the Terv's cost by the average number of Gants it will create, we also have to add the number of Gants it'll tend to nuke when/if it dies. That is a terrible way to calculate its value, IMO.


In average 4-5 per unit in 12". If you get youre gants out of the "danger Zone" as fast as possible a single tervigon is still a nice Option.
   
Made in gb
Infiltrating Broodlord






NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:


Yes, but by the logic that was "reduce" the Terv's cost by the average number of Gants it will create, we also have to add the number of Gants it'll tend to nuke when/if it dies. That is a terrible way to calculate its value, IMO.


Well... everything that gets blown up is poor value if you calculate it that way!

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Eldercaveman wrote:
Can't wait Jy!
Also that is a beautiful looking Crone!

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Omg I love the paint on that crone. I'm eager to see the report as well!

Thanks!

My final list will probably include 2 of those. My army is still currently not completed, which is why I did not take them to the LVO.


 felixcat wrote:
We know it is about the strength of the new Nids. But honestly how do you win consistently with Nids. Looking at the list played at the LVO by some top players, mind you, aside from trying to kill the other guy's scoring units, contest with mawlocks and trying to troubleshoot with flyrants crones while holding on for dear life to your own objectives there is no plan. tIt is a lot of if's that have to come together to work if we are looking to beat the top four armies ( Eldar/Tau/Daemons/IG). I see many suggetions on this thread but I find it hard to be optimistic.


Honestly, you have to adjust your expectations. Tyranids can still win against the majority of the armies, but just like in last edition, it will have problems against 2 of the top armies as well as a couple of RPS (rock-paper-scissors) builds. Against these armies (or these particular army builds), we will always struggle. Certain factors will help - favorable psychic powers and/or mission and deployment types - but there is no sugar-coating the tough matchups. Barring extreme dice, don't expect to dominate in those matchups. Instead, expect close wins when bugs do win....and sometimes by the skin of their teeth!


Naw wrote:
I have always wanted to play the bugs but never did. Now I've decided to give them a try. I just don't like painting, so I'm looking for advice how to do this in an easy way, ie. with as few models as possible?

We usually play at 1500 points, this is what I have in mind:

HQ
2 Flyrants with 2 TL Devourers 460

Elite
Venomthrope 45
2 Zoanthropes 100

Heavy support
2 Carnifex with 2 TL Devourers 300
Tyrannofex with adrenal and another template weapon 200

Leaves me with around 400 pts.

How to fill up the troops? Originally I thought of having a Tervigon and 30 Termagants, but painting 40 little bugs sounds quite annoying and time consuming (with my skill).

Could I just run some genestealers instead? Or maybe have Flyrant be a hive commander and 2 groups of 3 Tyranid warriors?

How about:

FA
Hive Crone 155

Troops
4 Tyranid warriors with 3 Deathspitter and Barbed strangler 145
3 Tyranid warriors 90

Brings me to 1495 points and only 16 models.

Personally, I'd go like this:

3 Tyranid warriors - Barbed Strangler - 100
3 Tyranid warriors - Barbed Strangler - 100
10 Termagants

But what I'd really like to see is for you to drop 1 zoanthrope and both barbed stranglers (or stranglethorns?, forgot the name as I don't really run them) and get yourself a bastion. But that's just my preference.


This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/02/15 16:50:14



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Huge Hierodule





Louisiana

If you're trying to save points an imperial bunker is 20 points cheaper and has the same model capacity as a bastion and has more fire points. It's also a great "vehicle" to infiltrate gene stealers into and let them actually assault.

Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it. 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




I don't really need two zoanthropes for synapse, but I like redundancy there as they are pretty good with anti-tank. However I could go with 2x 4 plain warriors instead. That's quite a many wounds in total coming at you. I would not need to babysit the backfield which is also a big bonus.

I am not sold on the bastion, but it could be my meta. We don't really do flyers besides my daemon princes, but do utilize a lot of melta.

I can lose my warriors as I'd anyway try to table my opponent. If I had some gants in a bastion waiting to junp out I'd just have to split my forces for synapse.

Now with this setup I would not need to worry about it. Besides, 10 gants are 10 more annoying models to paint
   
Made in us
Huge Hierodule





Louisiana

I'll just leave this here.
[Thumb - image.jpg]


Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it. 
   
Made in lt
Brainy Zoanthrope






tag8833 wrote:
 felixcat wrote:

I'm still wrapping my head around on how to beat Eldau and Taudar. I've had a few games and results have varied drastically. I will be playing on Sunday ...

So how would you deploy? I had reaper cc tyrant, desthleaper, 2 squads lictors, 3 stealer squads (two with broodlord), ten gants in a comms bastion, 2 crones and two mawlocs.

My opponent had buffmander, 3 broadsides (SMS HYM 2 drones, interceptor), riptide, WK, DA in serpents, seer, warp spiders, small outflanking kroot squad, aegis.

The problem here is that the broadside unit can rip my leaper to shreds if he is within 30" easily. If I DS or outflank he has interceptor. Sure horror can help if I can survive within distance but I sure cannot set up the Mawlocs safely for no scatter. I need to hide the flyrant and crones first turn also.

So how would you deploy and advance?

How you deploy will depend on terrain. Ideally, you have some LOS blocking ruins that you can infiltrate your deathleaper, lictors, and stealers into (broodlord out front to tank wounds). I would reserve your Mawlocs and Crones.

Place your Bastion just out of your deployment zone, blocking LOS to your Tyrant who is just inside your deployment zone. Your Gaunts can be in your tyrants synapse turn 1, and then go into the bastion turn 2. Turn 1 you do nothing but hide and move your Gaunts into the bastion (and fire bastion's bolters).



Exactly what I did.
Now I am contemplating on using FoR, placing it midfield for hugeass LoS block, advancing all my flyrants-gargoiles-shrikes towards it turn one and then flying from behind it and charging turn 2 (or holding mid field if opponent castles in his backfield). Soe Lictors/genestealers can be infiltrated inside the FoR to direct it's guns too.
What would you think of this trick?

 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.

5000pts
2000pts
7000pts
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






So far today I had to scratch build/convert/paint 2 biovores and spore mines for a surprise tournament tomorrow. Thankfully I had the Guard kit lying around and this guide here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/575587.page

Here are the speed painted results.

Also some bad pics of my Harpy. I've since lifted her base so that she's not dipping down towards the ground and looks normal/proper.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
So here's the list Im taking, but its not to late to change it. Critiques are welcome and appreciated, I'd like to go do good for a Tyranid.

1850pts
2 Flyrants, one with HVC and Reaper, the other with STC and LashwhipBS/toxin sacs combo. Both have HC
Venomthrope
Tervigon (troop)
30 Gants w/10 Devourers (Outflanking)
6 Warriors w/devourers, 1 Barbed Strangler, 1 Lashwhip/BS, all with Rending Claws (Outflanking)
Harpy
Crone
Crone
Biovore Brood (2)
Mawloc

I wanted all of my list to have a singularity to it, which is hitting the opponents deployment. I therefore lost my Dakkafexes because I felt they were awesome, but stuck out as a walker. Same thing for
Trygon since this was 1850 pts. I kept Mawloc for her cost and for the fear she causes with deployment. Flyrants are NOT being rushed in but are instead buffing first turn/taking pot shots and staying alive
so that they can help headhunt. Warrior brood is also a headhunter unit. Tervigon will be pushing forward fast. The 30 gants are a distraction that will hopefully catch a lot of bullets.

Thanks for any advice. Also wanted to know if its the consensus that its better to run the Biovores together or as two separate units.
[Thumb - biovore.jpg]

[Thumb - biovore2.jpg]

[Thumb - harpy.jpg]

[Thumb - IMGP0288.JPG]

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/02/16 00:48:34


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Portland,OR

Naw wrote:
I don't really need two zoanthropes for synapse, but I like redundancy there as they are pretty good with anti-tank. However I could go with 2x 4 plain warriors instead. That's quite a many wounds in total coming at you. I would not need to babysit the backfield which is also a big bonus.

I am not sold on the bastion, but it could be my meta. We don't really do flyers besides my daemon princes, but do utilize a lot of melta.

I can lose my warriors as I'd anyway try to table my opponent. If I had some gants in a bastion waiting to junp out I'd just have to split my forces for synapse.

Now with this setup I would not need to worry about it. Besides, 10 gants are 10 more annoying models to paint


You could stuff some genestealers in there by Infiltrate...no need for Synapse, and a big bad CC unit of Troops
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Eye of Terror

I played a game today versus Tyranids with a Bastion. TBH I wasn't very impressed... It creates a very static list I think it will have lots of problems taking objectives outside its deployment zone. You have an extended cover save bubble where lots of your army goes and it does not encourage aggressive play... Eldar and Tau will have a field day and you can only hide so much. I was very impressed with the Exocrine though... I could easily see taking two. I don't think the Flyrant is all that great as it's quite fragile now without Biomancy. The Tervigon I'm not really liking all that much either anymore... It just can't do what it did with all the nerfs now.

My blog... http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com

Facebook...
https://m.facebook.com/Terminus6Est/

DT:60+S++++G++++M+++B+++I+++Pw40k89/d#++D+++A++++/eWD150R++++T(T)DM+++ 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

 Iechine wrote:
So far today I had to scratch build/convert/paint 2 biovores and spore mines for a surprise tournament tomorrow. Thankfully I Thanks for any advice. Also wanted to know if its the consensus that its better to run the Biovores together or as two separate units.

Definitely 2 separate units (if you have space in the FOC, which you do).
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Tyranids can still win against the majority of the armies, but just like in last edition, it will have problems against 2 of the top armies as well as a couple of RPS (rock-paper-scissors) builds. Against these armies (or these particular army builds), we will always struggle.


Which was my point yes. Unfortunately those top two armies appear quite regularly. The RPS builds are a bit more rare although my second army which I play regularly is an RPS build - grav Iron Hands with SW Rune Priest ally ( I cannot even begin to say how good an RP is now in the current meta against the top armies) also is tough against Nids. I don't have high expectations playing against these lists, lol. I muddle through those match ups.

 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block



Bristol

Taking this list to a tournament next weekend:

HQ
Dakka flyrant -230
Tervigon - 195 (warlord)

Elites
Zoanthrope - 50
Venomthrope - 45

Troops
30 x naked gaunts -120
Tervigon - 195

Fast Attack
Hive Crone - 155

Heavy Support
Mawloc - 140
Exocrine - 170
3 x Dakkafexes - 450

1750

Gives me 9 MCs, should be fun to play.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/16 20:15:49


 
   
Made in us
Huge Hierodule





Louisiana

Tervigons can't be a warlord due to the fact that they're not characters.

Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it. 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block



Bristol

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Tervigons can't be a warlord due to the fact that they're not characters.


Didn't know that, seems odd having a HQ that can't be a warlord!
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Tactics
Go to: