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 Iechine wrote:
A huge part of that problem on our board is lack of truly LOS terrain. At the end of the day, Im glad the Crone took the shot rather than a tyrant (She had rolled 6's), but ugh.

An excuse to get terrain building then!

Had 1 game yesterday with the new list.... we are Tier 1 ladies and gentleman...

I played:
3 Flyrants
4 Hive Crones
2 Harpyes
15/10/10 Gargoyles
10/10 gaunts
3 Venomthorpes
2x Vengance weapon batteries with F8/fp3 large blast (av 14 fortifications that give you nice cover saves at the beguining of the game, force oponnet to deploy and move in a non optimal way and SOMETIMES kill hundred of Meq´s)

My oponent was playing his usual Necron list with Wraiths, necron lord destructor, night scithes with warriors and cripteks, 3 anihilation barges etc... a tournament winning list but Tyranids just tabled him by turn 4.... and the best of it, the guy is a pretty experienced player with this army, have used it for years and still the only thing he could kill was 23 gargoyles witch came all back, ans some wounds to flyrants and Crones witch did killed any of them.

3 Venomthorpes are the key of the army again..... giving 2+ cover save to my FMC behind the fortifications and ruins in turn 1 and giving 3+/2+ on the next turns as flyers move from 1 venom to another while shooting to the enemy.

If the oponent try to focus Venomthorpes they get tabled by the rest FMC, if they try to focus the Flyrant for sypnapse killing they discover that a 2+ cover save is too much for them... and they can fly out in case of 3 wounds

I think we are very close to what I think will be a metagame changer. Btw, about the vengance weapons... could some of you prop layers test them, im really in love with them but it seems im the only 1 using them...

Sandokann wrote:
Had 1 game yesterday with the new list.... we are Tier 1 ladies and gentleman...

I played:
3 Flyrants
4 Hive Crones
2 Harpyes
15/10/10 Gargoyles
10/10 gaunts
3 Venomthorpes
2x Vengance weapon batteries with F8/fp3 large blast (av 14 fortifications that give you nice cover saves at the beguining of the game, force oponnet to deploy and move in a non optimal way and SOMETIMES kill hundred of Meq´s)

My oponent was playing his usual Necron list with Wraiths, necron lord destructor, night scithes with warriors and cripteks, 3 anihilation barges etc... a tournament winning list but Tyranids just tabled him by turn 4.... and the best of it, the guy is a pretty experienced player with this army, have used it for years and still the only thing he could kill was 23 gargoyles witch came all back, ans some wounds to flyrants and Crones witch did killed any of them.

3 Venomthorpes are the key of the army again..... giving 2+ cover save to my FMC behind the fortifications and ruins in turn 1 and giving 3+/2+ on the next turns as flyers move from 1 venom to another while shooting to the enemy.

If the oponent try to focus Venomthorpes they get tabled by the rest FMC, if they try to focus the Flyrant for sypnapse killing they discover that a 2+ cover save is too much for them... and they can fly out in case of 3 wounds

I think we are very close to what I think will be a metagame changer. Btw, about the vengance weapons... could some of you prop layers test them, im really in love with them but it seems im the only 1 using them...

Looks strong. How many points is that anyways? 2K?

Sorry, but not familiar with the Vengeance batteries.

 jy2 wrote:
Sorry, but not familiar with the Vengeance batteries.

Cheap, squadable, AV value, super turrets. You have a battle cannon, punisher cannon, and...Icarus? Not half bad, considering how cheap they are.

3 hive crones for 2000 points instead of 4. The vengance weapon Bateries are av14 fortifications like the bastion, so behind it you get the +4 cover save witch gets to 2+ with the Venoms. Also it fires with ws 2 to the nearest target till a max range of 36´´ F8/fp3 large blast. They go for 75 points each and a single fortification slot in the army can be filled by 2 of them. Also rules are pre- stronhold assault expansion and are 40k aproved so you can use them even in tournaments without that book. I use them no really because the damage they may deal but because the hight disturbance they provoque in enemy deploiment and movements.
And as we all know 1 av14 fortification is hard as hell to take down so imagine 2 of them with 8 FMC flapflaping arround...... SO far in the last games Ive played this nice weapons have made my oponent to deploy their thought units (LR, AV13 vehicles or Inv save +2 AKA armor guys in front or them in the open)
That mean lot of nice things for my Hive crones and in general for tyranid shoot saturation.
Also while they are up the enemy will have his movement cripled as the fear factor make them play conservative and thats like autolosing vs Tyranid flying circus. If they decide to charge foward and target the fortifications they really made my day as I will be vector striking from turn 1 .
Please test them

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
A huge part of that problem on our board is lack of truly LOS terrain. At the end of the day, Im glad the Crone took the shot rather than a tyrant (She had rolled 6's), but ugh.

An excuse to get terrain building then!

Yea...we're moving soon and I want to get one of those megamats but they arent on sale for a few months. Once we get a new map Ill get to work on nicer terrain.

Add a void shield generator and laugh turn one.

So, looking back at this, I find some things highly amusing. Towards the start of our release, we were considered down and out. Heck, we all heard the hordes saying they were done; selling their armies and moving on. Now look at us. These formations shake up the meta quite a bit. So, the question stands, regardless of how we got these abilities, anyone still regretting playing the greatest threat to the galaxy at large?

Meh. Since I can't use dataslates really they haven't had any affect on me - but I was never down and out about the codex from day one either.

I'm with rig on this one. Its nice to see some folks getting use out of them but unless things change, I won't be seeing any formation use from my side.

Not that it matters, because even with the other restrictions in the group they still can't beat me.

Honestly, i do not get the dataslate restrictions. If you can use grimoire, if you ally Tau with Eldar or SM ...well. You see supplements used regularly. FW is in so many lists. You already have OP units in the game. Let me level the field. And now Imperial Knights are a codex - not a supplement not a dataslate.

Allow Stronghold. Allow dataslates. The only thing i would ban in regular 40k is ranged D weapons. Give me the tools to fight deathstars.

You have the tools to fight deathstars now.

The only thing that's hard to fight is Knights. And really, you just have to accept that you trade 2-400 points to kill a Knight.

 felixcat wrote:

Honestly, i do not get the dataslate restrictions. If you can use grimoire, if you ally Tau with Eldar or SM ...well. You see supplements used regularly. FW is in so many lists. You already have OP units in the game. Let me level the field. And now Imperial Knights are a codex - not a supplement not a dataslate.

Allow Stronghold. Allow dataslates. The only thing i would ban in regular 40k is ranged D weapons. Give me the tools to fight deathstars.

Agreed, every store I have ever been to allows everything in the game but changes two things. Strength D is S10 AP1, and Grimoire is 2+ then 4+

I'll give the group here credit from the standpoint that its not just dataslate hate. Its Hate for anything that isn't fluffy. 1 flyer per 1k points, no SHA, No Escalation... No unit spamming.. Inquisition takes up allies foc etc etc.

Most of the reason why it doesn't bother me to much, because without that stuff they can't beat my normal lists.

While I get all the excitement about Skyblight, I don't own many FMCs and don't feel like buying or painting anymore just for the new FoTM list. So I'd like to look at options for ground-based lists using other formations. Here's a first draft based on Endless Swarm:

1850 pts

----- HQ -------------------------------
1. Hive Tyrant* (245pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked
- 1x Tyrant Guard

----- Troop ----------------------------
1. Tyranid Warrior Brood* (110pts)
- 3x Tyranid Warrior
- 1x Barbed Strangler, 2x Deathspitter
2. Termagant Brood (40pts)
- 10x Termagant

----- Elite ----------------------------
1. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope
2. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope
3. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope

----- Heavy Support --------------------
1. Trygon Prime* (230pts)
- 1x Trygon Prime
2. Trygon Prime* (230pts)
- 1x Trygon Prime
3. Trygon Prime* (230pts)
- 1x Trygon Prime

----- Endless Swarm --------------------
1. Tyranid Warrior Brood* (110pts)
- 3x Tyranid Warrior
- 1x Barbed Strangler, 2x Deathspitter
2. Hormaguant Brood (105pts)
- 15x Hormaguant
- 15x Adrenal Glands
3. Hormaguant Brood (105pts)
- 15x Hormaguant
- 15x Adrenal Glands
4. Hormaguant Brood (70pts)
- 14x Hormaguant
5. Termagant Brood (120pts)
- 20x Termagant
- 10x Devourer
6. Termagant Brood (120pts)
- 20x Termagant
- 10x Devourer

That's over 100 infantry, most of can respawn within the enemy deployment zone and will start under a decent cover save. It has a pretty solid Synapse contingent also, with 4 MCs and 6 Warriors able to hold the reigns.

My thinking is like so:

The Venomthropes are pretty disposable, only intended to reduce turn 1/2 losses somewhat. Keeping them in smaller units makes it easier to completely obscure them from LoS.

Warrior Barbed Stranglers can try to pin things if possible.

Trygons emerge on turn 2/3 near objectives, leaving their tunnels available for reinforcement swarms to contest them later. Since they have Fleet and will be arriving in the enemy deployment zone, they should be in combat on turn 3/4 pretty easily.

Two broods of Hormas have AG to help deal with AV10, in the absence of meatier ranged weaponry.

The main weakness is obviously going to be flyers, only the Tyrant can really do damage to them. But I am hoping that the volume of bodies on the table will make it really hard for flyers to move as they like. It should be possible to leave certain spaces open for them, luring them them into side/rear armour attacks by S5 Warriors/Trygons or Devourers.

I'm just trying Skyblight Swarm in Vassal... against an opponent that spammed canoptek scarabs.
I already feel guilty for all the S6 I have.

rigeld2 wrote:
Meh. Since I can't use dataslates really they haven't had any affect on me - but I was never down and out about the codex from day one either.

Im thinking that might be changing. LVO and BAO are both going to allow them going forward. The only change is that they are going to count as your allied detachment. Works out great for Nids and keeps some pretty awful shenanigans from being exploited.

 xttz wrote:
While I get all the excitement about Skyblight, I don't own many FMCs and don't feel like buying or painting anymore just for the new FoTM list. So I'd like to look at options for ground-based lists using other formations. Here's a first draft based on Endless Swarm:

1850 pts

----- HQ -------------------------------
1. Hive Tyrant* (245pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked
- 1x Tyrant Guard

----- Troop ----------------------------
1. Tyranid Warrior Brood* (110pts)
- 3x Tyranid Warrior
- 1x Barbed Strangler, 2x Deathspitter
2. Termagant Brood (40pts)
- 10x Termagant

----- Elite ----------------------------
1. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope
2. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope
3. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope

----- Heavy Support --------------------
1. Trygon Prime* (230pts)
- 1x Trygon Prime
2. Trygon Prime* (230pts)
- 1x Trygon Prime
3. Trygon Prime* (230pts)
- 1x Trygon Prime

----- Endless Swarm --------------------
1. Tyranid Warrior Brood* (110pts)
- 3x Tyranid Warrior
- 1x Barbed Strangler, 2x Deathspitter
2. Hormaguant Brood (105pts)
- 15x Hormaguant
- 15x Adrenal Glands
3. Hormaguant Brood (105pts)
- 15x Hormaguant
- 15x Adrenal Glands
4. Hormaguant Brood (70pts)
- 14x Hormaguant
5. Termagant Brood (120pts)
- 20x Termagant
- 10x Devourer
6. Termagant Brood (120pts)
- 20x Termagant
- 10x Devourer

That's over 100 infantry, most of can respawn within the enemy deployment zone and will start under a decent cover save. It has a pretty solid Synapse contingent also, with 4 MCs and 6 Warriors able to hold the reigns.

My thinking is like so:

The Venomthropes are pretty disposable, only intended to reduce turn 1/2 losses somewhat. Keeping them in smaller units makes it easier to completely obscure them from LoS.

Warrior Barbed Stranglers can try to pin things if possible.

Trygons emerge on turn 2/3 near objectives, leaving their tunnels available for reinforcement swarms to contest them later. Since they have Fleet and will be arriving in the enemy deployment zone, they should be in combat on turn 3/4 pretty easily.

Two broods of Hormas have AG to help deal with AV10, in the absence of meatier ranged weaponry.

The main weakness is obviously going to be flyers, only the Tyrant can really do damage to them. But I am hoping that the volume of bodies on the table will make it really hard for flyers to move as they like. It should be possible to leave certain spaces open for them, luring them them into side/rear armour attacks by S5 Warriors/Trygons or Devourers.

Looks nice, the only thing I'd do differant is use Toxin Sacks instead of Adrenal...more of a flavor choice than a play change...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

85chadillac wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Meh. Since I can't use dataslates really they haven't had any affect on me - but I was never down and out about the codex from day one either.

Im thinking that might be changing. LVO and BAO are both going to allow them going forward. The only change is that they are going to count as your allied detachment. Works out great for Nids and keeps some pretty awful shenanigans from being exploited.

Sounds like a rational solution. I haven't had much luck with Multi-Formation lists anyways. And it lets Nids have an "Allies" slot.

85chadillac wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Meh. Since I can't use dataslates really they haven't had any affect on me - but I was never down and out about the codex from day one either.

Im thinking that might be changing. LVO and BAO are both going to allow them going forward. The only change is that they are going to count as your allied detachment. Works out great for Nids and keeps some pretty awful shenanigans from being exploited.

Maybe. We'll see.

Even then I'd need a Nidzilla one to make me happy. :-)

85chadillac wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Meh. Since I can't use dataslates really they haven't had any affect on me - but I was never down and out about the codex from day one either.

Im thinking that might be changing. LVO and BAO are both going to allow them going forward. The only change is that they are going to count as your allied detachment. Works out great for Nids and keeps some pretty awful shenanigans from being exploited.

Just wait - 7th ed will have them in the BRB.

Here is my "current" version of "Endless Tunnel Assault" I came up with while eating breakfast...


HQ: Winged asassain: Wings, LW/BS, Toxic, Thorax swarm, Brain leeches 255 (usually Warlord, I play this guy conservitive and reactive, so he tends to stay alive)
Winged Dakka'rant 230

Warriors (x3): Rending claws x2, Deathspitters x2, Cannon 120
Warriors: as above 120

Trygon Prime 230
Trygon Prime 230
Mawloc 140

1325 points...

Endless Swarm:
Hormigants x 15, (x3) 225
Spinegaunts x 15, (x3) 180 (Apparently the US version is "not right", and it should be 3x here. I disagree, because the Formation had exactly 6 troops, and now has 7, and that strikes me as something somebody with no knowlage of the Codex would do, thinking Warriors are Elites....)
Warriors: see above 120

Total: 525 525+1325=1850 7 Synapse, 2 FMC, 2 Big Wormeys, 1 Mawloc (5 MC's of all types) 9 Troops, 6 of which can pop back to life (4+) and two tunnels for assaulting... a fair challenge at 1850 I think...

Almost no upgrades, other than the Winged Asassain...but a Winnable force to my eye...

Number of "troops" slots has no bearing on the formation - sky blight has 6 FA and artillery node has 4 heavy - deathleaoer assassin brood has 5x elites...

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Number of "troops" slots has no bearing on the formation - sky blight has 6 FA and artillery node has 4 heavy - deathleaoer assassin brood has 5x elites...

You'll notice I did go ahead and change it...

pinecone77 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Number of "troops" slots has no bearing on the formation - sky blight has 6 FA and artillery node has 4 heavy - deathleaoer assassin brood has 5x elites...

You'll notice I did go ahead and change it...

Yes but i was commenting on the "whoever wrote it has no idea about how the codex works" comment -- making it 3 and 3 units of gants/gaunts makes sense in that the number of broods is equal. In essence it is very similar to how the endless swarm formation for apocalypse is set up - just with different rules to make it work better for standard 40K.


I think more than anything these formations (including the vanguard ones if you like genestealers) allow for tyranid players to easily field 6-12 scoring units in a standard FOC. That much board control is huge vs armies like Tau and Eldar, that excel at killing a single target or two per turn -- if we can present more threats than the enemy has answers for, and half of the ones they kill come back to wreak more havoc, we can overwhelm and overpower them with swarm elements just like in the stories. Hooray!

 tetrisphreak wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Number of "troops" slots has no bearing on the formation - sky blight has 6 FA and artillery node has 4 heavy - deathleaoer assassin brood has 5x elites...

You'll notice I did go ahead and change it...

Yes but i was commenting on the "whoever wrote it has no idea about how the codex works" comment -- making it 3 and 3 units of gants/gaunts makes sense in that the number of broods is equal. In essence it is very similar to how the endless swarm formation for apocalypse is set up - just with different rules to make it work better for standard 40K.


I think more than anything these formations (including the vanguard ones if you like genestealers) allow for tyranid players to easily field 6-12 scoring units in a standard FOC. That much board control is huge vs armies like Tau and Eldar, that excel at killing a single target or two per turn -- if we can present more threats than the enemy has answers for, and half of the ones they kill come back to wreak more havoc, we can overwhelm and overpower them with swarm elements just like in the stories. Hooray!

Yes I have really taken to the "Endless Swarm"....but the "Skyblight" seems to be more popular. For me the "issue" is I'd have to buy and paint a boatload of new fig....and the base expense is so heavy that the formation, basicly Is the whole army.

I haven't had a chance to try out this concept yet (health issues) but I am looking foward to giving it a try, like you say its a winnable force that lives in "fluffyville"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
First try at a "At least you'll get to fight in the shade" Force

HQ:Winged Dakka'rant 230
HQ:Winged Dakka'rant 230

Troops Genestealers x5 Toxic, Brood Lord 145
Troops: Genestealers x5, Toxic 85

FA: Crone
FA: Crone 155 per?
FA: Crone

Sky Blight Formation
Hive Tyrant as above 230
Harpy, x2 170
Crone 155?
Gargoyles x10, (x3) 180

835 for Formation, 1265 for base army = 1990, spent 10 points on a upgrade 2000

Game upstairs is still heated.

My LW/BS Tyrant instakilled her Riptide, but was itself instakilled her turn 3 by the knight. My Reaper flyrant got locked in with her Crisis Commander team but missed 4 out of 5 strikes. He's down to one wound as is the Crisis Commander.

My Lictor was captain badass and assaulted a Wave serpent getting 2 pens and a glance, not to mention he brought in a Mawloc on top of a Dire Avenger blob.

 Iechine wrote:
Game upstairs is still heated.

My LW/BS Tyrant instakilled her Riptide, but was itself instakilled her turn 3 by the knight. My Reaper flyrant got locked in with her Crisis Commander team but missed 4 out of 5 strikes. He's down to one wound as is the Crisis Commander.

My Lictor was captain badass and assaulted a Wave serpent getting 2 pens and a glance, not to mention he brought in a Mawloc on top of a Dire Avenger blob.

Sounds like an amazing back and forth exchange. Why not target the wraith knight in melee with the instant death flyrant?

That was the plan, proximity was the issue. I do have 5 warriors with rending claws and a LW/BS within 6 inches to charge the knight, and really they have no choice but to try. I could get lucky and ID it, or at least tie it up. We stopped playing when the kid woke up.

pinecone77 wrote:
First try at a "At least you'll get to fight in the shade" Force

HQ:Winged Dakka'rant 230
HQ:Winged Dakka'rant 230

Troops Genestealers x5 Toxic, Brood Lord 145
Troops: Genestealers x5, Toxic 85

FA: Crone
FA: Crone 155 per?
FA: Crone

Sky Blight Formation
Hive Tyrant as above 230
Harpy, x2 170
Crone 155?
Gargoyles x10, (x3) 180

835 for Formation, 1265 for base army = 1990, spent 10 points on a upgrade 2000

With how fragile your stealers are, you absolutely should not kit them out for an offensive role. That just encourages you to play aggressively with them...and to get them killed. I'd drop the broodlord and toxic upgrades.

In turn, get another unit of troops or a bastion instead. You can do a lot of shenanigans with infiltrating genestealers and the bastion.

 Iechine wrote:
Game upstairs is still heated.

My LW/BS Tyrant instakilled her Riptide, but was itself instakilled her turn 3 by the knight. My Reaper flyrant got locked in with her Crisis Commander team but missed 4 out of 5 strikes. He's down to one wound as is the Crisis Commander.

My Lictor was captain badass and assaulted a Wave serpent getting 2 pens and a glance, not to mention he brought in a Mawloc on top of a Dire Avenger blob.

Let me ask you....if you beat your wife in 40K, does she beat you in real life.

 xttz wrote:

1850 pts

----- HQ -------------------------------
1. Hive Tyrant* (245pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked
- 1x Tyrant Guard

----- Troop ----------------------------
1. Tyranid Warrior Brood* (110pts)
- 3x Tyranid Warrior
- 1x Barbed Strangler, 2x Deathspitter
2. Termagant Brood (40pts)
- 10x Termagant

----- Elite ----------------------------
1. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope
2. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope
3. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope

----- Heavy Support --------------------
1. Trygon Prime* (230pts)
- 1x Trygon Prime
2. Trygon Prime* (230pts)
- 1x Trygon Prime
3. Trygon Prime* (230pts)
- 1x Trygon Prime

----- Endless Swarm --------------------
1. Tyranid Warrior Brood* (110pts)
- 3x Tyranid Warrior
- 1x Barbed Strangler, 2x Deathspitter
2. Hormaguant Brood (105pts)
- 15x Hormaguant
- 15x Adrenal Glands
3. Hormaguant Brood (105pts)
- 15x Hormaguant
- 15x Adrenal Glands
4. Hormaguant Brood (70pts)
- 14x Hormaguant
5. Termagant Brood (120pts)
- 20x Termagant
- 10x Devourer
6. Termagant Brood (120pts)
- 20x Termagant
- 10x Devourer

That's way too many trygon primes. Have you no flyrants? I'd recommend the following:

1. Change out your walkrant for a flyrant.

2. Swap out 1 tryon prime for another flyrant.

3. Personally, I'd swap out the tyranid warriors for 10 gants and a zoan or venom. Then drop a coupld more stuff to get a bastion as well. Now you can put either the zoan, venom or unit of 3 warriors into the bastion.

 jy2 wrote:

Let me ask you....if you beat your wife in 40K, does she beat you in real life.

My wife is a fiery angry thing when it comes to competition so if I ever win believe me its amidst a lot of turmoil and personal cost.