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2014/04/26 13:07:06
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
captnobvious wrote: It's probably some combination of "these are the models I have ready" and "this is the way I want to play it. So the complete revamp might not be quite the correct answer.
Wasn't exactly what I would call a complete revamp, the Mawloc slot was still undecided and the only actual change I suggested was Warriors over the Tervigon. But whatever, complete revamp it is.
captnobvious wrote: I
So. Going to go ahead and change subject. With the points drop on them, and being able to still run full options:
Is there really a reason to take Raveners over Shrikes anymore other than maybe Red Terror? They had an extra attack before, now its just a single point of Initiative. So with synapse, shadow, and fearless. Is there much of a reason to take raveners anymore (dataslates aside).
They still have an extra attack due to 2 sets of Close Combat weapons. But I think you pretty much nailed it, Shrikes are now the same price and there is very little reason to run Raveners. Red Terror is pretty plain as well. Shrikes are quite playable, Raveners I think I would consider at 20 pts.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2014/04/26 13:59:57
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
captnobvious wrote: It's probably some combination of "these are the models I have ready" and "this is the way I want to play it. So the complete revamp might not be quite the correct answer.
Wasn't exactly what I would call a complete revamp, the Mawloc slot was still undecided and the only actual change I suggested was Warriors over the Tervigon. But whatever, complete revamp it is.
Not really.....the only thing up for debate was the Fex/Exo slot. Was suggested changed to a Mawloc.
Add a group of warriors (or Lictors)
Change Tervigon to a group of warriors.
And swarms to the flyrants.
Add a heavy weapon to the warrior brood.
Add 15 devourers to the gant squad.
captnobvious wrote: I
So. Going to go ahead and change subject. With the points drop on them, and being able to still run full options:
Is there really a reason to take Raveners over Shrikes anymore other than maybe Red Terror? They had an extra attack before, now its just a single point of Initiative. So with synapse, shadow, and fearless. Is there much of a reason to take raveners anymore (dataslates aside).
They still have an extra attack due to 2 sets of Close Combat weapons. But I think you pretty much nailed it, Shrikes are now the same price and there is very little reason to run Raveners. Red Terror is pretty plain as well. Shrikes are quite playable, Raveners I think I would consider at 20 pts.
I think the idea behind the Red Terror is MUCH more in line with what the Prime SHOULD be instead of it's current incarnation. AKA a fancy veteran sergeant/champion/whatever you want to call him. And you can replace the warriors gun with another set of talons to give them the same number of attacks. So really little to no reason to run raveners at all. And you lose out on HoW with raveners.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/26 14:00:57
2014/04/26 14:38:55
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
captnobvious wrote: It's probably some combination of "these are the models I have ready" and "this is the way I want to play it. So the complete revamp might not be quite the correct answer.
Wasn't exactly what I would call a complete revamp, the Mawloc slot was still undecided and the only actual change I suggested was Warriors over the Tervigon. But whatever, complete revamp it is.
Not really.....the only thing up for debate was the Fex/Exo slot. Was suggested changed to a Mawloc. Add a group of warriors (or Lictors) Change Tervigon to a group of warriors. And swarms to the flyrants. Add a heavy weapon to the warrior brood. Add 15 devourers to the gant squad.
Seems about as re-vampy as it gets?
Cmon son... fleshborers to devourers? 1 heavy weapon on a Warrior? All this stuff comes in the same damn boxes lol... The swarms on the Flyrant don't even need to be modelled, and all the stuff you listed combined suggestion of 100 pts total in upgrades, using all the models he currently uses... So no, it is absolutely not a complete revamp, from neither a gameplay nor a modelling perspective. You must realise how pedantic you look right now. Newsflash - the "Exo/Fex slot" is actually the same slot as a Mawloc! He posted a list looking for advice, he mentioned nothing about model restrictions or an unwillingness to receive feedback (you know, the thing most people are looking for when they post their list in the "discussing tactics thread" for that army), so you've just completely shot down comprehensive responses on the basis of a bunch of assumptions, made by you, for no other real reason than to troll. The advice doesn't even affect you, if he can't afford/doesnt want to buy another Mawloc, or doesn't own the model he can either ignore the advice, and/or say so. Doesn't change the fact that I, in my personal opinion, felt it was the immediate obvious and best choice for an untaken slot still in contention that advice was asked about for. Sure he said he was weighing up between two models, he also didn't specify any restrictions though and in case he felt that was the only option, I gave him, you know, strategical tactical advice. Or is that not allowed anymore and we have to just work on the assumption that everybody only has the models they mention in their posts?
Stop trolling. You don't like Mawloc's. We get it.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/04/26 14:44:19
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2014/04/26 21:01:43
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
The result? Complete Victory. Tabled all three opponents and each one agreed that they were overwhelmed with threats from turn 2 onwards which made target priority a mess. It also didn't help that one of my Crones decided he was never going to be grounded - ever and he was going to deny the witch like there was no tomorrow. Three DTWs in a row against Ahriman.
Quick summary time, with more in depth details coming later on.
Tournament rules were as follows...
1800 points, no FW, no Formations, 'nids allowed to ally with 'nids for the Tournament.
Psychic Disciplines had to be noted down (so, for Tyranids it was who cares?) but powers generated each game.
Warlord Trait generated at the start of the day and kept for all games - I wound up with Intimidating Presence from the Command traits (enemy within 12" of Warlord having to use the lowest Ld for tests...). The proved to be useful indeed.
Game 1 - SM - Blood Ravens (using Raven Guard Chapter Tactics). Mission was a modified version of the Relic with two diplomats being in the midfield and the goal being to get yours back and off the table to safety, possibly threatening the enemy once you have done that. Also in play were First Blood, Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord.
Opponent's list was a Chapter Master, 8 Vanguard with assorted kit, 2 10 man Assault Squads, 2 Sniper Scout squads, 2 Predators, Devastators with Flakk Missiles, Terminator Librarian and TH/SS Terminators. Got first turn and deployment - but before that he used his Scout move to move forward and hop into the ruin with the Chapter Master and Vanguard Vets to claim his diplomat.
That was the first mistake - The Dakka fireline pretty much wiped out the Vanguard Veterans in turn 1 scoring me First Blood and the flying blockade of monsters ended up using the Warlord trait and the horror to pin down a big assault squad while the Crones came forward. What followed through this game were Crones circling around, Vector striking Assault squads and Predators out of existence while sheer firepower from devourers killed everything else. Meanwhile the gaunts wandered off the table with their diplomat.
End Result - 6-0 to the Tyranids, Opponent was tabled.
In total I lost 12 points of models (3 termagants!)
Game 2 - Tau. Mission was a modified version of the Scouring with Fast Attack being an extra VP - 6 objectives (worth 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 5) with First Blood, Slay the Warlord, Linebreaker.
Opponent's list was Battlesuit Commander, Crisis suits, Darkstrider and some Pathfinders, 3 Fire Warrior Squads, Broadsides, 2 Riptides. Opponent got first turn, I did not seize. Started off by shooting quite rudely as the only thing he managed to move to get sight to - a Crone, stripping 3 wounds off it. I decide to go aggro from the get go - leaving my gaunts and warriors sat on objectives with the Venomthropes and Zoeys. Everything else goes all out toward his lines and opens fire. End up in turn one routing the middle FW squad off their objective and doing damage to two others.
Have a fluke moment with Super Crone who ends up taking over three quarters of the Tau army's firepower to be brought down. Opponent got FB and a Fast Attack kill. This was followed up with turn two - crones start vector striking and drooling on things, assassin tyrant pounces on a FW squad and the dakka flyrants move to threaten the riptides and broadsides. I will note that the Skyfire riptide spent the ENTIRE game Paroxysmed for -3 WS/BS. Assaults ensue, assassin tyrant ends up bogged down in Fire Warriors who REFUSE to break (which made me laugh as it mean he was safe from all the tau firepower) and ends up assaulted by a Riptide which in round 3 of combat he ends up IDing.
Game continues with vector strikes and drool cannons, Tyrant assaults and opponent is tabled.
End result after objectives flipped and Tau tabled - 13 - 2 for the Tyranids. Total losses for this game - 190 points. One warrior, one crone.
Game 3 - Daemons. Mission was standard Kill Points.
Opponent's list was 2 Tzeentch Princes with wings, 2 horror squads, 3 screamer squads, Ahriman, some Marines and a Forgefiend. I get first turn, he doesn't seize.
Flying blockade moves forward in force with Assassin Tyrant flanking - massed devourer fire wipes out a screamer squad netting me First Blood. In response he flies the Princes over a Tyrant and vector strikes - but does nothing thanks to Catalyst and flies the remaining Screamers over the other Tyrant, again doing nothing. Ahriman uses Dominion on a Flyrant - note he did this most of the game. It did nothing Ld 10 is hilarious. Second turn sees Crones vector striking Chaos Marines and his Warlord Prince. the Flyrants moving forward. His Warlord is brought down by - you'll love this - mass termagant fire forcing a grounding test and taking his last wound. Warlord slain. The other prince is then shot at by a Carnifex who grounds him and then assaults him. The screamers are shot and assaulted by Termagants and the other Carnifex. Carnifexes murder their prey in combat. Tyrants chew through Horror squads (SitW is MEAN to them). The Crones fly in a circle and Vector strike Ahriman and his Marines to death.
The cruelest part of fate was when he had just two horrors left in combat with a Tyrant...on the whole board. Rolls on Warp Storm, double 6 - gets 7 more horrors who deep strike, scatter off the board, mishap and die.
End result - 14-0 to the Tyranids, opponent tabled. Total losses - 12 points - 3 Termagants.
All in all the test run of this list was very good. Just overwhelming people with SO MANY FLYING THINGS works.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/26 23:34:41
Now only a CSM player.
2014/04/26 22:27:53
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2014/04/26 22:36:37
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
captnobvious wrote: Is there really a reason to take Raveners over Shrikes anymore other than maybe Red Terror? They had an extra attack before, now its just a single point of Initiative. So with synapse, shadow, and fearless. Is there much of a reason to take raveners anymore (dataslates aside).
Shrikes > Raveners. However, Raveners aren't bad. +1 Iniative can make a difference, and being Beasts rather than Jump infantry can make a difference.
If I had to pick 1 unit, I would always pick Shrikes. But if I wanted to pick 2 units, I would go 1 Shrike, 1 Ravener rather than 2 Shrikes.
I played a game today against 30k Imperial fists. He had a lot of terminators, and a super killer HQ, a Land Raider. Plus 2 squads of 6 missile launcher devastators.
With all of those juicy terminators, I thought my Mawlocs were going to have an absolute field day. But when both Mawlocs came in turn 2. One scattered over the land raiders (missing everything else). It misshaped and died. The other scattered next to the Terminators, and was assaulted and killed. The Trygon Deep struck next to the Devastator squads, and shot at them, but they made all of their saves. On his turn he used the devastators to put 5 wounds on the Trygon Prime. He died to overwatch assaulting a single devastator.
Despite my heavy support going down in flames, my Shrikes came up Huge. They shot their Flesh hooks and killed 3! special terminators. Then they assaulted a squad of 7 more with a Sgnt with a power fist, and his crazy HQ. They Tarpit something like 800 points. I threw in 20 HGaunts, and gave the HGaunts preferred enemy from turn 3 on. It took 4 full turns, but eventually the HGaunts got him to fail 13 2+ saves, and finished the unit off. Meanwhile he was so focused on the Shrikes that he decided to destroy them, and was doing lots of wounds, but WS 5 and 3 wounds a piece meant they weren't going down very fast.
That gave Swarmy a chance to do his thing, and my flyrant a chance to deal with the devastators. My Gargoyles also tarpit a 300 point unit for 3 turns. Turn 5 they killed my last Gargoyles just in time for my flyrant to assault and finish them off for a complete tabling.
2014/04/27 06:04:55
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
Cmon son... fleshborers to devourers? 1 heavy weapon on a Warrior? All this stuff comes in the same damn boxes lol... The swarms on the Flyrant don't even need to be modelled, and all the stuff you listed combined suggestion of 100 pts total in upgrades, using all the models he currently uses... So no, it is absolutely not a complete revamp, from neither a gameplay nor a modelling perspective. You must realise how pedantic you look right now. Newsflash - the "Exo/Fex slot" is actually the same slot as a Mawloc! He posted a list looking for advice, he mentioned nothing about model restrictions or an unwillingness to receive feedback (you know, the thing most people are looking for when they post their list in the "discussing tactics thread" for that army), so you've just completely shot down comprehensive responses on the basis of a bunch of assumptions, made by you, for no other real reason than to troll. The advice doesn't even affect you, if he can't afford/doesnt want to buy another Mawloc, or doesn't own the model he can either ignore the advice, and/or say so. Doesn't change the fact that I, in my personal opinion, felt it was the immediate obvious and best choice for an untaken slot still in contention that advice was asked about for. Sure he said he was weighing up between two models, he also didn't specify any restrictions though and in case he felt that was the only option, I gave him, you know, strategical tactical advice. Or is that not allowed anymore and we have to just work on the assumption that everybody only has the models they mention in their posts?
Stop trolling. You don't like Mawloc's. We get it.
Actually I kinda like Mawlocs. Dunno where you got the impression that I don't. Personally, I just prefer Biovores.
Changing 25 out of 43 total models seems pretty major, and timeline was stated:
Iechine wrote: . Still havent decided with just a few hours to go. : /
I would also say that choosing between Fex and Exo is "specifying restrictions".
This feels a lot like two parents arguing over a kid for no reason, plus kinda borderline flaming....so yea......Guess I'll just t-roll out.....
Back to the Ravener/Shrike thing:
It's good to hear Shrikes are providing a lot of value. And I really think flesh hooks on shrikes are going to start making appearances a lot more often. Even after losing some STR, the drag rule, and rending. A set of shots to snap fire and frag grenades is a lot of bonus for a small amount of points. And with the flesh hook addition, the fact that they're jump infantry instead of beasts improves their use in/on/around cover. That's just efficiency.
Even with 2 squads, I think the utility of Shadow on fast moving models would outweigh a single point of initiative, i mean even just tarpitting NEAR psykers nets you the effect.
Please don't attach nonwargaming images to Dakka.
Reds8n
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/27 11:39:09
2014/04/27 11:17:03
Subject: Re:Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
And yet again, none of what you just said has any relevance to the fact that he just posted a list, and I just gave advice. Stop making a big deal over it. I am posting fully within the forum rules by giving advice in any thread in the tactics discussion category. Also, you know full well the statement you just quoted from him having to only a few hours to go was posted half a day AFTER i gave him advice on the list. On top of this, even if he had said it before I posted my advice, how in the feth would you captnobvious, have any idea, that user lechine does not have a Mawloc model sitting next to him on the table? Since when are we not allowed to make such assumptions when giving advice? Since when are we not allowed to share our opinions and advice?
Suggestions and responses are always welcomed by most, so why don't you just stop whining. It's not even the advice itself you are complaining about, just the fact that I provided an opinion where you feel I shouldn't have? I will post whatever tactical advice I choose to give in the tactics threads, if you don't agree with it by all means, but crying because it was given is just ridiculous. Go bother someone else.
And yes, I too feel like you are arguing over your child. You seem to be telling me on his behalf not to give him tactical advice, and I was starting to wonder if you knew him in real life or something and knew something I didn't. But alas, it seems you are just interjecting with unwanted and unnecessary trolling. At this stage I am just defending myself, I have no idea why you seem to have targeted me. I don't get it? Did lechine message you personally saying he didn't want to discuss Tyranid 40k tactics and asked you to defend him by telling me not to post opinions on Tyranid 40k tactics, in the Tyranid 40k list building tactics thread? Even if he had, I can post opinions in here all day long, its what the thread is for, and anyone who doesn't like reading peoples advice or opinions really doesn't belong in this forum subcategory.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/27 11:22:00
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2014/04/27 11:35:16
Subject: Re:Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
If you have nothing useful to add and/or just wish to bicker with another user then it's really better you don't post.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2014/04/27 11:48:56
Subject: Re:Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
My first matchup was vs Eldar and a 'non-douchey' list, owned by Ray who was a really nice guy that I'll hopefully be playing with a lot in the future. This
was a fun game.
Spiritseer
Eldrad
Wraithguard
Wraithknight
3x Wave serpents (Scatter laser x2, Brightlance)
Dire Avengers
Fire Dragons (!)
Warp Spiders
Guardians w/heavy weapon (I think it was a starcannon, dont recall)
I went first and he was unable to seize. My psychic powers stayed the same all day, mostly Pyschic scream, the horror, and Onslaught.
Only rolled catalyst once all day (of course).
Our setup. His forces in the back right are wave serpent bound.
My turn one hit very hard. I onslaughted the middle crone so she swooped and ran right up to 4+ save guardians. Left crone took down
some Warp Spiders. Eldrad's Wraith unit lost a lot of bodies to Devourer fire. The guardians would break and run, giving my FB.
His response brings down a Warlord Tyrant on the far right with Ranger fire, but not before SitW interfered with his casting phase.
A crone is brought down, and two wounds are dealt to the other but she stays in the air.
My newbie mistake here was vector striking the Wraithknight with both Crones, despite having told myself to ignore it for the duration of the
game. I do inflict wounds. The Tyrant flies hard legal (Wouldnt stand properly on the hill so thats why is facing is 'illegal' in the pic). Middle
arrow moves up, Tervigon comes on and spawns, and 1 Mawloc doesnt clear out Eldrad's unit so she mishaps to the far back. I make the
mistake of not bubble wrapping the Tervigon properly with her spawn.
He counters, inflicting many wounds on the Tervigon (which the Knight wound finish of in CC) and unloads the Dragons and WS to take down the Tyrant,
but he survives.
My new Gant squad would make all of their leadership checks when out of synapse. Flyrant goes off the table, and his spot is replaced with
two angry Crones. T-fex moves up, Warriors continue to move towards the left objective, and my massive gant blob controls the middle and
sets their sight's on Eldrad. The flame templates and torrents would melt away the Fire Dragons, and reduce the Warp Spiders to two.
WS's go to pick a fight with my gants. The Wraithknight fires on the T-fex, and then makes an 8" charge to fist fight. The Fex would not survive
the slap fight. He consolidates towards the bottom left objective. Not pictured so well is the 30 gant squad swarming towards Eldrad.
Tyrant is back on. I make a mistake here and fire on a WS, when I should have finished off Eldrad with his Wraithguard and Seer's gone.
Mawloc comes in off target but close enough to where I need her. Other Mawloc goes after the Rangers to clear them off their objective.
More vector strikes and flame templates finish off another Dire Avenger group.
Warrior brood disappears beneath Knight strikes. Eldrad would finally die to the massive swarm.
Crone flies to flame some Rangers, Mawloc moves to assault them and get them off the objective. Gants own the left objective, and the
middle group consolidated and ran back to the middle objective. Tyrant heads up to pop the gants back into synapse. I stretch the brood
out the middle to be in synapse and hold the middle.
With the knight being unable to contest both objectives, we call it. I think I had 11 kill points to his 5, and Im ahead on objectives. I have
FB, Warlord and Linebreaker, maxing out my points in the first round.[spoiler]
Game 2 vs Tau
Spoiler:
I was excited for this round because the opponents list was pretty tough. It was a Crisis and Broadside filled nightmare with plenty of
Pathfinders and Firewarriors. A Buffmander was his Warlord as well as an Ethereal. The two broadside units were all missile pods,
then there was a Fusion Crisis team, Missile Crisis Team, and another group plus the Commander's unit. Without a Riptide I a little fear
but some confidence in my ability to pop the suits with my Crones and get into melee. The Skyshield posed little trouble for my fliers, and the
two outflanking Kroot units should run in to solid resistance when they come in. My opponent is Scooter, one of the employees at Dropzone MD
and he is a hilarious dude who was really fun to play with who kept me laughing.
My deployment is much the usual, prepared to be seized on but able to rush in all directions with the spear up the middle.
I knew I needed to be prepared to lose some units first turn. Little did I know that I was about to roll one of the worst games of my life. See how I
have Crones there?
Now I dont! I failed literally every single save on every single unit, from armor to jink to grounding, I failed all tests. Not even Catalyst's FNP rolls. My opponent couldnt believe it and neither could I, I am used to Tau gunline but this was an extremely disheartening turn.
To help improve my mood, not a single one of my three reserve units come in. I'm not sure if I made the right choice here, but I moved my
Psychic scream equipped tyrant into the middle and cast PS, hoping to get easy wounds off of four units and then assault and hide in
the Broadsides. At this time, I was unaware of the ethereal (newbie mistake) and that the tests would go off on 10's, so I failed to deal a
single wound. The other Tyrant moved up hoping to hide in combat as well.
Of course the Tyrant breaks the Broadsides who flee and fail to escape. The other Tyrant fails his 5" charge. Sitting ducks now.
I dont have many photos of his phases, but for the most part his army was point and click. This isnt an insult to Scooter because he's a great
player with any army and this was a store army anyway, he'd probably win with anything. Without being able to get in there and disrupt on turns
1 and 2, I'm feeling pretty much doomed and can only hope to scrape together a solid hold on my Emperors Will objective.
Tervigon comes in and Mawloc scatters safely. Everything else moves up with Warriors holding back to control the point.
My other Mawloc doesnt clear her target, and mishaps...of course I roll a 1, killing her. Spawned gants shoot and assault the outflanked Kroot unit
who break and run. Tyrannofex backpedals to melt a unit of Kroot with his acid spray but cant assault. Tervigon assaults and destroys the Firewarriors
in the back left corner.
His next round of shooting would kill the Tervigon off, who would synaptic backlash most of her spawned children. Tyrannofex takes a lot of saves but
is brought down by AP1 fire with the cover save of the Venomthrope being negated. And all too crushingly my Warrior brood gets taken down as well
with poor saves.
Having no synapse and only Gants/Venom remaining, I concede. His Crisis suits are in range to contest my Emperors will even if they miraculously
survived all of the shooting without breaking and running (Or failing synapse checks).
Besides knowing about the Ethereal, there wasnt too much I would have done differently in this game. I simply had my main offensive broken too quickly,
and not being able to capitalize on the first go. My hope of being in the top three with Tyranids was broken so fast. In my opponent's words, I 'got screwed'.
Game 3 vs Chaos Marines (!)
Spoiler:
Having been crushed in the last round, I was not surprised to have fallen down to table 4. My opponents army was a strange one, most notably he brought
Typhus (!). Large marine groups with Slaneesh powers granted ignores cover (the noise marine weapons right?), two Maulerfiends, and a Helldrake. Even
Lucius the Eternal shows up. I forget the name of the tentacly things that you roll for in close combat, but he had four of those as well.
Mission was Relic and four corner objectives.
Truth be told, although I knew little of his army, I didnt have much to fear. My warlord trait even gave +1 to his reserve rolls, making it likely to keep the air support
off the field long enough for me to mop up. My plan is simple, vector strike everything and ignore the expensive units.
I set up first, but he successfully seizes. In his first round of shooting he inflicts some wounds with a blast weapon on the Tyrant and Tyrannofex which ignores
cover, but beyond that I lose a Gaunt or two.
I rush up the middle. The angles let me enjoy some vector strikes and close proximity flames with the Crones, and I pump even more fire
into Lucius' marine unit. Suffering mass casualties, only Lucius remains giving FB.
He moves up with Typhus and the Maulerfiend, sending wounds out but failing to capitalize. My 1 wound Tyrant survives and without any massed fire going towards
anything flying, the skies remain ruled by Tyranids.
Vector striking everything that I can, they slowly fall to the AP3. I immobilize one of the Fiends in the backfield, and the other pushes up to my midfield.
My gaunt blob is assaulted by the Tentacly things, but they are fearless and the numbers can prevail. One Mawloc comes in to wound and mishap into the corner.
In an iladvised move, he rushes the Warrior squad to try and break the synaptic hold. One falls immediately in the first round of combat. Typhus' unit joins the
battle in the middle, no one has grabbed the relic. In the backleft are his casualties. Tyrannofex turns around to aid his tiny friends. One of my crones comes back on the
board. The Tyrants finish off the Maulerfiend in the back and assault the Marines in the middle. They all fall.
The Warriors die, but the Tfex will avenge them shortly with smash attacks. Lucius is killed in close combat by the Tyrant in the building, he had tried to sneak in to finish
him off. The Gaunts in the middle are killed off and Typhus' unit grabs the relic, but they quickly find themselves alone and surrounded by big bugs. Typhus breaks off
and assaults the Tfex, with his psychic weapon instakilling him.The Helldrake does finish off my Warlord Tyrant, but he is quickly avenged...
...with Vector strikes and Tentaclids. The Maulerfiends stay on the field as wrecks. The relic holding marines are cut down by the Tyrant, dropping it where it was from the
start. Typhus moves to assault the Mawloc as well. He is now the last of his army. My Tervigon sends her offspring to capture an objective and to secure the other herself.
My flyrant will defensively move off the board.
The game actually continues to turn 7. Typhus kills everyone in CC, making magical saves. He gets wounded by a termagant blob in overwatch, and is finally finished off
by my Tyrant coming back on the board and shooting him dead. I have the Primaries and objectives, as well as linebreaker, FB and STW.
So I think I would have changed my list slightly, dropping the Tfex and Mawloc for two Carnifex's with devourers with a template going to the Tervigon. Very rarely did the Fex get to use his 2+ save, and while melting
Kroot and Eldar so easily feels good, 24 more TL S6 shots probably feels great too. But I do now that there is not another army I would rather use than the Tyranids, even without
their dataslates.
I have gotten some comments about the Tervigon and outflanking her, but honestly she did what I wanted her to, which is cement objectives. She died via newbie mistakes like not bubble wrapping her properly and she
secured the primary objectives for me alone in Game 3.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/04/27 18:24:49
Anyway, Nice work spanking the Eldar lechine and those bugs are nicely painted. Did not look like the Tyrannofex did much for you at all that game.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Adding to that, I really enjoyed the battle report, quick, not too many words, good pics and nicely painted models. Will keep my eye out for more.
Strategical notes, you had two clear underperformers - the Tervigon and the Tyrannofex. Basically exactly as I predicted in my post before you played, both were at best distractions, although really the T-Fex was in between the WK and where he wanted to be anyway (and didn't even slow him down) and the Tervigon was destined to do nothing more than feed the Eldar an extra kill point every turn, so I wouldn't even glorify them as distraction units. Especially at 400 pts for the two and how little they achieved. Up to you if you want to act on that but I would say both unit are severely holding your list back.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/04/27 13:02:03
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2014/04/27 15:38:32
Subject: Re:Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
My first matchup was vs Eldar and a 'non-douchey' list, owned by Ray who was a really nice guy that I'll hopefully be playing with a lot in the future. This
was a fun game.
Spiritseer
Eldrad
Wraithguard
Wraithknight
3x Wave serpents (Scatter laser x2, Brightlance)
Dire Avengers
Fire Dragons (!)
Warp Spiders
Guardians w/heavy weapon (I think it was a starcannon, dont recall)
I went first and he was unable to seize. My psychic powers stayed the same all day, mostly Pyschic scream, the horror, and Onslaught.
Only rolled catalyst once all day (of course).
Our setup. His forces in the back right are wave serpent bound.
My turn one hit very hard. I onslaughted the middle crone so she swooped and ran right up to 4+ save guardians. Left crone took down
some Warp Spiders. Eldrad's Wraith unit lost a lot of bodies to Devourer fire. The guardians would break and run, giving my FB.
His response brings down a Warlord Tyrant on the far right with Ranger fire, but not before SitW interfered with his casting phase.
A crone is brought down, and two wounds are dealt to the other but she stays in the air.
My newbie mistake here was vector striking the Wraithknight with both Crones, despite having told myself to ignore it for the duration of the
game. I do inflict wounds. The Tyrant flies hard legal (Wouldnt stand properly on the hill so thats why is facing is 'illegal' in the pic). Middle
arrow moves up, Tervigon comes on and spawns, and 1 Mawloc doesnt clear out Eldrad's unit so she mishaps to the far back. I make the
mistake of not bubble wrapping the Tervigon properly with her spawn.
He counters, inflicting many wounds on the Tervigon (which the Knight wound finish of in CC) and unloads the Dragons and WS to take down the Tyrant,
but he survives.
My new Gant squad would make all of their leadership checks when out of synapse. Flyrant goes off the table, and his spot is replaced with
two angry Crones. T-fex moves up, Warriors continue to move towards the left objective, and my massive gant blob controls the middle and
sets their sight's on Eldrad. The flame templates and torrents would melt away the Fire Dragons, and reduce the Warp Spiders to two.
WS's go to pick a fight with my gants. The Wraithknight fires on the T-fex, and then makes an 8" charge to fist fight. The Fex would not survive
the slap fight. He consolidates towards the bottom left objective. Not pictured so well is the 30 gant squad swarming towards Eldrad.
Tyrant is back on. I make a mistake here and fire on a WS, when I should have finished off Eldrad with his Wraithguard and Seer's gone.
Mawloc comes in off target but close enough to where I need her. Other Mawloc goes after the Rangers to clear them off their objective.
More vector strikes and flame templates finish off another Dire Avenger group.
Warrior brood disappears beneath Knight strikes. Eldrad would finally die to the massive swarm.
Crone flies to flame some Rangers, Mawloc moves to assault them and get them off the objective. Gants own the left objective, and the
middle group consolidated and ran back to the middle objective. Tyrant heads up to pop the gants back into synapse. I stretch the brood
out the middle to be in synapse and hold the middle.
With the knight being unable to contest both objectives, we call it. I think I had 11 kill points to his 5, and Im ahead on objectives. I have
FB, Warlord and Linebreaker, maxing out my points in the first round.[spoiler]
Nice! I agree that WraithKnights and Riptides are big problems for us Bugs Did you meet any Tau? Or should I just wait... I'm glad you went with the Tyranofex how did you kit her out? I always want to add a Thorax Hive, and I usually find the points for Adrenals as well...
I can't fault you for failing to ignore the WK, its hard to do! And with a little luck, you might have put it away The closest thing I have as an "answer" is Bone sword(s) ie: Get lucky If Rangers are causing problems, you should be able to clean them out, you have a lot of templates, and two Mawlocs (more templates!) So it was likely "threat overload" that kept you from getting them sooner....congrats on the fine victory!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/27 15:39:58
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2014/04/27 19:32:09
Subject: Re:Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
I can't fault you for failing to ignore the WK, its hard to do! And with a little luck, you might have put it away The closest thing I have as an "answer" is Bone sword(s) ie: Get lucky If Rangers are causing problems, you should be able to clean them out, you have a lot of templates, and two Mawlocs (more templates!) So it was likely "threat overload" that kept you from getting them sooner....congrats on the fine victory!
That's the reason I have an Assassin Flyrant at 1800 points rather than something else as the allied HQ - his goal is to leap on big things like Riptides or Wraithknights and attempt to ID them to death. He really shines if I get Paroxysm though - because then his target tends to get Paroxysm-stacked and if I can reduce it to WS 3 or less? Gives him a lot more survivability!
Now only a CSM player.
2014/04/27 20:34:59
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
Anyway, Nice work spanking the Eldar lechine and those bugs are nicely painted. Did not look like the Tyrannofex did much for you at all that game.
Adding to that, I really enjoyed the battle report, quick, not too many words, good pics and nicely painted models. Will keep my eye out for more.
Strategical notes, you had two clear underperformers - the Tervigon and the Tyrannofex. Basically exactly as I predicted in my post before you played, both were at best distractions, although really the T-Fex was in between the WK and where he wanted to be anyway (and didn't even slow him down) and the Tervigon was destined to do nothing more than feed the Eldar an extra kill point every turn, so I wouldn't even glorify them as distraction units. Especially at 400 pts for the two and how little they achieved. Up to you if you want to act on that but I would say both unit are severely holding your list back.
The Fex served as a roadblock all day and thats about it, the Exocrine would have gotten more action probably. But the Tervigon definitely served her purpose, IMO.
pinecone77 wrote:
Nice! I agree that WraithKnights and Riptides are big problems for us Bugs Did you meet any Tau? Or should I just wait... I'm glad you went with the Tyranofex how did you kit her out? I always want to add a Thorax Hive, and I usually find the points for Adrenals as well...
I can't fault you for failing to ignore the WK, its hard to do! And with a little luck, you might have put it away The closest thing I have as an "answer" is Bone sword(s) ie: Get lucky If Rangers are causing problems, you should be able to clean them out, you have a lot of templates, and two Mawlocs (more templates!) So it was likely "threat overload" that kept you from getting them sooner....congrats on the fine victory!
I ran everything vanilla, so no upgrades or alterations to speak of. In non tourney play I do use a Reapers and LW/BS warriors often, but not in this event.
SBG wrote: Worth picking up the DLC? I bought the other 2, but was hesitant on #1. The 5-lictor brood seems like it could be amazing, though...
I'm a huge fan. The assassin brood is good too - it can give up first blood easily but as a bonus it's easy to get at least a couple lictors into combat.
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2014/04/28 02:57:45
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
Anyway, Nice work spanking the Eldar lechine and those bugs are nicely painted. Did not look like the Tyrannofex did much for you at all that game.
Adding to that, I really enjoyed the battle report, quick, not too many words, good pics and nicely painted models. Will keep my eye out for more.
Strategical notes, you had two clear underperformers - the Tervigon and the Tyrannofex. Basically exactly as I predicted in my post before you played, both were at best distractions, although really the T-Fex was in between the WK and where he wanted to be anyway (and didn't even slow him down) and the Tervigon was destined to do nothing more than feed the Eldar an extra kill point every turn, so I wouldn't even glorify them as distraction units. Especially at 400 pts for the two and how little they achieved. Up to you if you want to act on that but I would say both unit are severely holding your list back.
The Fex served as a roadblock all day and thats about it, the Exocrine would have gotten more action probably. But the Tervigon definitely served her purpose, IMO.
pinecone77 wrote:
Nice! I agree that WraithKnights and Riptides are big problems for us Bugs Did you meet any Tau? Or should I just wait... I'm glad you went with the Tyranofex how did you kit her out? I always want to add a Thorax Hive, and I usually find the points for Adrenals as well...
I can't fault you for failing to ignore the WK, its hard to do! And with a little luck, you might have put it away The closest thing I have as an "answer" is Bone sword(s) ie: Get lucky If Rangers are causing problems, you should be able to clean them out, you have a lot of templates, and two Mawlocs (more templates!) So it was likely "threat overload" that kept you from getting them sooner....congrats on the fine victory!
I ran everything vanilla, so no upgrades or alterations to speak of. In non tourney play I do use a Reapers and LW/BS warriors often, but not in this event.
Cool, but its only 10 points to toss in a Hive, that gives you a big overwatch if you get charged, and lets you kill Troops twice as fast
So I'd reccomend you give it a try sometime...
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2014/04/28 04:16:25
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
SBG wrote: Worth picking up the DLC? I bought the other 2, but was hesitant on #1. The 5-lictor brood seems like it could be amazing, though...
I'm a huge fan. The assassin brood is good too - it can give up first blood easily but as a bonus it's easy to get at least a couple lictors into combat.
Lictors need to be characters....challenging out and killing sgts would be fluffy and useful.
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/04/28 04:37:17
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
SBG wrote: Worth picking up the DLC? I bought the other 2, but was hesitant on #1. The 5-lictor brood seems like it could be amazing, though...
I'm a huge fan. The assassin brood is good too - it can give up first blood easily but as a bonus it's easy to get at least a couple lictors into combat.
Lictors need to be characters....challenging out and killing sgts would be fluffy and useful.
I agree especially since they are 1 man units, and Deathleapers hand picked escort (lol @ deathleaper being a gentlemenly veteran of skirmish warfare with a curled moustache and a british accent) , or whatever, the Hive Mind's handpicked escort for the Deathleaper.
Nah.... Assassins brood is amazing, with obvious negatives. It's balanced.
ductvader wrote: Been a long long while since we've been "mod-ed"
Just played the forest lictor brood...d@mn can they take a hit and deal some pain...so much rending...
Yeah that guy was just painful though. +1 rep to Mods. He had de-evolved to "tl;dr" + jpg trolling by the end there.
From someone who has never bothered with the Terrain rules, what are the key features to playing a forest brood? What do I need to bring with me, and how do I go about it? Also, my thoughts are that I would have to place the forest just before their deployment zone starts, otherwise they could deploy all around it blocking the 6" margin needed to infiltrate? Any more info / explanation for me here?
I wouldn't say Lictors are Terrible. I would say that they are mainly overcosted, and competing with Venoms and Zoeys for FOC.
I think (might be wrong) that he is saying the Deathleaper Assassins brood itself is terrible, not Lictors. Deathleaper Assassins Brood is different because it puts 5 kill points on the table for 250 points, 50 points a Lictor. 6 if you include the Deathleaper although he isn't near as much of a liability. This can be a notable handicap. If running it, you pretty much have to play to table your opponent. I still think it's less likely to feed killpoints than running a Tervigon however
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/04/28 04:50:26
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2014/04/28 05:48:04
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
No, I'm definitely saying Lictors are terrible. In my opinion Lictors need at least 2 or 3 of the following in order to be worth fielding at a competitive level:
- Increased durability
- Lower points cost
- Ability to make non-declinable challenges
- Ability to assault from reserves
- Pheromone trail working the turn they arrive from reserves
- Better close combat stats
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
Did you meet any Tau? Or should I just wait... 
I'm glad you went with the Tyranofex how did you kit her out? I always want to add a Thorax Hive, and I usually find the points for Adrenals as well... 
The closest thing I have as an "answer" is Bone sword(s) ie: Get lucky 
