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just2fierce wrote:
why isn't there any love for stealers? Every article I can find on the new book just leaves them out.....

Well I don't know why other people don't use them - I only know why I don't use them. For me it is because they are the cost of a Space Marine with a similar statline, except instead of paying out the ass for a 3+ save, you are paying out the ass for 2 points higher of initiative. The bulk of the cost is in that (and the extra attack and 2 points of WS - hooray ~_~ ). This would actually be ok - if they had frags. Instead, you are paying big amounts for something that is so easily countered by any army - you thought Space Marines were bad because AP2/3 is so common? Try being countered by any unit in cover. Yep, anything that genestealers threaten is immediately countered by something available in large amounts to any army. That I6 and 2 attacks? You will be last everytime by default, and you'll be lucky to see half those attacks anyway after eating a round of combat from anything - remember, TAC marines point cost except with 5+ save. Oh and did I mention all their upgrades are just further points wasted on at least half the unit, the front half, who already (vanilla) become 14 ppm fodder when they assault?Oh and that all this is ASSUMING they manage to make it into combat without being torn to shreds (ONCE AGAIN, 14 points per T4 5+ model). Oh and that just in case it would be useful to have them man a quad gun or something, (being that they have no bolters either), they were given BS0, just to make sure they didn't get up to anything actual useful.

That's why I don't run them. Don't know about other people.

I used them in a tournament one time recently. More for the Broodlord to challenge out those STUPID Smash Masters (or whatever you wanna call them) on a Bike.

They didn't get use except in a single game. They either died or were completely ignored.

I think that the rumor that FMC only take a single grounding check at the end of the shooting phase, and only if they receive a wound, is a thematically sensible thing to do. Screw those markerlight grounding fails. The balancing act that doesn't make every FMC army hopelessly OP is that snap-firing is allegedly -2 BS instead of making you BS 1. I do still think this will bring Skyblight out ahead, as all of their troops will have Objective Secured as well as the gargoyles. It does make the gargoyles a little worse but the fact that they re-spawn and can deep strike on the last turn potentially will still make for some awesome late-game shenanigans.

I do think that it will make the Tervigon version a little better than the warrior version just because spawning little groups of Objective Secured Gants will be incredibly difficult to deal with late game along with the gargoyles.

Overall I'm very excited for 7th edition. It seems like a lot of changes they're implementing were long overdue

IMO, Genestealers could be fixed with a good price cut. Price them similarly to Daemonettes -- probably their closest analogy in the game -- and I'd find a way to use them.

 gorgon wrote:
IMO, Genestealers could be fixed with a good price cut. Price them similarly to Daemonettes -- probably their closest analogy in the game -- and I'd find a way to use them.

Daemonettes are basically stealers that trade S4 and T4 for S3, T3, a 5++ and +3" run. And deep strike. Basically, Stealers should be slightly more expensive than nettes, as in 1 or 2 more points. Honestly I think 11ppm would be perfect for them.

I am hoping that they'll be awesome again. For example, if you can consolidate into another unit, then 20 in a bastion up front would be rock solid.

These new psyker rules are a definite buff for zoans.

Is it just me or the fact that we fire 3 warp lances in a single cast isn't so bad now?

With the new rules of witchfire it's even possible in some cases to triple warplance something (with 4-5 dices only) and then nova with the remaining dices (or just throw curses and blessing around).

Well.. If choosing your powers from the same discipline in your codex allows you to take the Primaris for free (As it apparently does in the BRB) that would mean the Zoanthrope at ML2 may be able to take 3 powers!

Not to mention he grants the hive Tyrant 2 more dice to be able to use his (likely better) powers.

I haven't seen the new Psyker rules - I know this isn't the thread for it, but what exactly are we talking about?

 SHUPPET wrote:
I haven't seen the new Psyker rules - I know this isn't the thread for it, but what exactly are we talking about?

You know the magic phase in fantasy battle? It's coming to 40k.

In any case, the Tyranids have the capacity to own the psychic phase against most armies thanks to having fairly easily massed Psykers between Zoanthropes, Tyrants, and Tervigons.

Currently testing this:
I call it "SkyStorm".

Very early days with one game/win under its belt.
The concept was based around Spore Mines being ineffective when looked at as a singular but raining multiples from the Sky.. that could actually be decent.. Add this into Skyblight and that could be fairly solid.
Shame 6 of my Biovores were nuked in the only test game I've played so far first turn.
Won the game by killing all of his troops. Needs testing a plenty.


Flyrant Dual Devs 230
Flyrant Dual Devs 230
Flyrant Dual Devs 230

3 Warriors 90
3 Warriors 90

10 Gargoyles 60
10 Gargoyles 60
10 Gargoyles 60

Hive Crone 155
Harpy Venom Cannon 140
Harpy Venom Cannon 140

3 Biovore 120
3 Biovore 120
3 Biovore 120

 jifel wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
IMO, Genestealers could be fixed with a good price cut. Price them similarly to Daemonettes -- probably their closest analogy in the game -- and I'd find a way to use them.

Daemonettes are basically stealers that trade S4 and T4 for S3, T3, a 5++ and +3" run. And deep strike. Basically, Stealers should be slightly more expensive than nettes, as in 1 or 2 more points. Honestly I think 11ppm would be perfect for them.

I am hoping that they'll be awesome again. For example, if you can consolidate into another unit, then 20 in a bastion up front would be rock solid.

Agreed. Stealers are just slightly better than Daemonettes but not by much. 11ppm is a fair cost for them (maybe 12ppm at most), though I doubt that will ever happen. Otherwise, if they are going to keep them at 14ppm, I think at the very minimum, stealers need either 1) 4+ saves or 2) assault grenades or 3) both.

Spoletta wrote:
These new psyker rules are a definite buff for zoans.

Is it just me or the fact that we fire 3 warp lances in a single cast isn't so bad now?

With the new rules of witchfire it's even possible in some cases to triple warplance something (with 4-5 dices only) and then nova with the remaining dices (or just throw curses and blessing around).

The only thing bad about casting 3 warp lances are that you are paying 150-pts for 2 warp charges where you can just as easily pay only 50-pts for 2 warp charges. Also, if they get denied, you lose 3 shots instead of just 1 shot.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Currently testing this:
I call it "SkyStorm".

Very early days with one game/win under its belt.
The concept was based around Spore Mines being ineffective when looked at as a singular but raining multiples from the Sky.. that could actually be decent.. Add this into Skyblight and that could be fairly solid.
Shame 6 of my Biovores were nuked in the only test game I've played so far first turn.
Won the game by killing all of his troops. Needs testing a plenty.


Flyrant Dual Devs 230
Flyrant Dual Devs 230
Flyrant Dual Devs 230

3 Warriors 90
3 Warriors 90

10 Gargoyles 60
10 Gargoyles 60
10 Gargoyles 60

Hive Crone 155
Harpy Venom Cannon 140
Harpy Venom Cannon 140

3 Biovore 120
3 Biovore 120
3 Biovore 120

An interesting build. Reminds of my 5th Ed. days when I constantly ran 6-9 biovores.

While it can work, IMO it is not the most optimal Tyranid build. Just relying on brute-force firepower alone will not get it done against the better armies. Right now, the best armies rely on force-multiplication units to make them very good.

My opinion as always is to try to fit 1 venomthrope and a bastion into your list. These are actually force-multiplication units that make your army much more survivable and, as a result, much better as well. If that means downgrading 1 unit of warriors to termagants and dropping some biovores, then so be it.

 SHUPPET wrote:
I haven't seen the new Psyker rules - I know this isn't the thread for it, but what exactly are we talking about?

You generate 1d6+ML level cumulated of your army warp dices. Assign those dices to your casting models and then try casting. When you cast a power you decide how many dices you roll, on a 4+ they generate a warp charge. If you generate enough charges the power is casted. The enemy has the same d6 your rolled + his ML level in DtW dices. When you roll a power he can roll DtW dices, on a 6+ they negate a warp charge (there are many modifiers to improve this roll).

The important thing to notice is that to reliably cast powers you need much more dices than the ones generated by the casting models itself. A WC1 cast goes off with 2 dices at 75% and with 3 at 87%. This should be offset by the additional 1d6 dices you get over your ML level, but it works well as long as you have few psyckers.

The debate whether it was better to triple cast a lance or have 3 separate casts is now clear. With only 4 or 5 dices you are casting 3 WC2 powers which is huge in terms of efficiency.

Another matter is that this will now put into discussion the competitive use of 2 Flyrants if you already have a zoan. You are starting to get too high on ML levels, they will see their psy capabilities capped which was one of the main reasons why Flyrants were taken in the first place. Add to that that anti air will probably become less of a problem if the -2bs on snapshot is true (warrior with prime will hit at 5+, haywire hive guards hitting at 5+ will become viable anti air, warp lances at 5+ also).

That is a mixture of what is known, combined with rumors. How a psyker will test for their powers is unknown.

I find the 4+ to just flat sound wrong... You are talking having to roll 4 to 6 dice to hope you get two warp charges for a power.. hoping that none of those double out on you. 3 warp charge spells 6 to 8 dice..

When you add the fact that these dice are generated in every psyker phase, armies with large pools will be able to dtw on lesser armies with fair ease since they don't risk perils on a dtw.

Then add in stuff about how they will work Sitw... they would have to rewrite the rule because if psyker ldr doesn't get used, its a useless racial and a kick in the bug nuts

Perils only happens on double (or triple, etc) 6 when casting non-Demonology powers.

Leadership is not used for tests, that is confirmed, so many many things will have to be FAQed.

The 4+ to cast also seems confirmed from the WD that says that to cast a WC3 reliably you need to roll at least 6 dices.

The -2 Bs part is still at "reasonable rumor" level.

Spoletta wrote:
Leadership is not used for tests, that is confirmed, so many many many many many many many many things will have to be FAQed.

The 4+ to cast also seems confirmed from the WD that says that to cast a WC3 reliably you need to roll at least 6 dices.

Fixed that for you.

 jy2 wrote:

 jifel wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
IMO, Genestealers could be fixed with a good price cut. Price them similarly to Daemonettes -- probably their closest analogy in the game -- and I'd find a way to use them.

Daemonettes are basically stealers that trade S4 and T4 for S3, T3, a 5++ and +3" run. And deep strike. Basically, Stealers should be slightly more expensive than nettes, as in 1 or 2 more points. Honestly I think 11ppm would be perfect for them.

I am hoping that they'll be awesome again. For example, if you can consolidate into another unit, then 20 in a bastion up front would be rock solid.

Agreed. Stealers are just slightly better than Daemonettes but not by much. 11ppm is a fair cost for them (maybe 12ppm at most), though I doubt that will ever happen. Otherwise, if they are going to keep them at 14ppm, I think at the very minimum, stealers need either 1) 4+ saves or 2) assault grenades or 3) both.

Spoletta wrote:
These new psyker rules are a definite buff for zoans.

Is it just me or the fact that we fire 3 warp lances in a single cast isn't so bad now?

With the new rules of witchfire it's even possible in some cases to triple warplance something (with 4-5 dices only) and then nova with the remaining dices (or just throw curses and blessing around).

The only thing bad about casting 3 warp lances are that you are paying 150-pts for 2 warp charges where you can just as easily pay only 50-pts for 2 warp charges. Also, if they get denied, you lose 3 shots instead of just 1 shot.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Currently testing this:
I call it "SkyStorm".

Very early days with one game/win under its belt.
The concept was based around Spore Mines being ineffective when looked at as a singular but raining multiples from the Sky.. that could actually be decent.. Add this into Skyblight and that could be fairly solid.
Shame 6 of my Biovores were nuked in the only test game I've played so far first turn.
Won the game by killing all of his troops. Needs testing a plenty.


Flyrant Dual Devs 230
Flyrant Dual Devs 230
Flyrant Dual Devs 230

3 Warriors 90
3 Warriors 90

10 Gargoyles 60
10 Gargoyles 60
10 Gargoyles 60

Hive Crone 155
Harpy Venom Cannon 140
Harpy Venom Cannon 140

3 Biovore 120
3 Biovore 120
3 Biovore 120

An interesting build. Reminds of my 5th Ed. days when I constantly ran 6-9 biovores.

While it can work, IMO it is not the most optimal Tyranid build. Just relying on brute-force firepower alone will not get it done against the better armies. Right now, the best armies rely on force-multiplication units to make them very good.

My opinion as always is to try to fit 1 venomthrope and a bastion into your list. These are actually force-multiplication units that make your army much more survivable and, as a result, much better as well. If that means downgrading 1 unit of warriors to termagants and dropping some biovores, then so be it.

I would be doing a happy dance if Stealers got Flesh Hooks, even if the price went up (a little ) That would make them back into a "good" use of points. (for me anyway )

I like the list also, but could it be built as Two Formations? Skyblight+ Living Artillery might be quite a "thing" (Change 9 Biovores into 3 Biovors, Warrior with Cannon, and an Exocrene)

With cover only being a -2 to saves...I'll be bringing the hunting pack here soon.

I know this isn't a rumors thread, but there are some really good ones posted right now that I think are more likely than not valid since we're so close to the release.

1) Vector strikes are now AP 2

2) All armies are now battle brothers with themselves

3) Now even having interceptor + sky fire doesn't allow you to hit ground targets regularly. Any unit with sky fire will snap fire against ground targets (except FMCs who allegedly get to just choose whether they use sky fire or not each phase)

Lastly, it's not a rumor, but I think Zoans will be making a big comeback with how it seems that the psychic phase will work. I think that having the most dice in the pool plus a decent net of Shadow in the Warp (whatever that will wind up meaning) is something that Nids will be able to abuse with great regularity, especially with the rumor that if a Psyker takes all their powers from a single discipline then they automatically ALSO get the primaris for that discipline. Meaning that synapse will now always be able to be extended to 18" by any synapse creature. Well except for warriors. Overall I have a really good feeling about the psychic choir making a comeback. Who needs biomancy anyways?

For the record, I am holding out hope for an updated FAQ along with the new edition that gives us biomancy back. I'm a dreamer.

luke1705 wrote:
I know this isn't a rumors thread, but there are some really good ones posted right now that I think are more likely than not valid since we're so close to the release.

3) Now even having interceptor + sky fire doesn't allow you to hit ground targets regularly. Any unit with sky fire will snap fire against ground targets (except FMCs who allegedly get to just choose whether they use sky fire or not each phase)

Tau's Velocity Trackers also allow the units to choose whether or not they want to use "Skyfire".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm more excited about D-weapons allowing cover saves on anything but a 6. Finally, a nerf that keeps a Warhound or Renevant from auto nuking our ground troops. I might actually start playing Apocalypse again.

 wyomingfox wrote:

luke1705 wrote:
I know this isn't a rumors thread, but there are some really good ones posted right now that I think are more likely than not valid since we're so close to the release.

3) Now even having interceptor + sky fire doesn't allow you to hit ground targets regularly. Any unit with sky fire will snap fire against ground targets (except FMCs who allegedly get to just choose whether they use sky fire or not each phase)

Tau's Velocity Trackers also allow the units to choose whether or not they want to use "Skyfire".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm more excited about D-weapons allowing cover saves on anything but a 6. Finally, a nerf that keeps a Warhound or Renevant from auto nuking our ground troops. I might actually start playing Apocalypse again.

I think this actually might be very humorous, as regular units will be able to stand toe-to-toe with strength D so long as they have good cover or a good invuln most of the time. To me, it does seem like they should change it back to gargantuan creatures/super heavy walkers not being locked in combat by those tiny gribblies if they're going to nerf the D weapons like that (although I also agree that the proposed changes are very much a good thing)

Well if Tyanids can now ally with themselves, a 1850 Battle Forged list could have a Skyblight formation plus 3 additional Dakka Flyrants, 3-10 man gaunts, a bastion, a Zoe, a Venomthrope, and still have 25 points to spare. Definitely something I would like to try out.

 wyomingfox wrote:
Well if Tyanids can now ally with themselves, a 1850 Battle Forged list could have a Skyblight formation plus 3 additional Dakka Flyrants, 3-10 man gaunts, a bastion, a Zoe, a Venomthrope, and still have 25 points to spare. Definitely something I would like to try out.

That is interesting. I do wonder though at what point tyrants' benefits are outweighed by their own points cost. I don't know that I would take more than 3, as that's already almost 700 points, with 4 clocking in at over 900. When half your army is 4 models, it seems like an easy way to get crushed if those models can be dealt with. I think it would be better to have more of your FMCs be other creatures so that you get similar durability for less points (although who knows that psychic choir might be something fierce, especially depending on how Shadow in the Warp changes). For example, I think I would trim it down to 3 flyrants, turn the gaunts into 2 bare bones warrior squads and add in an additional crone and 2 solo Zoans (again, really thinking Shadow will be pretty sweet for Nids to achieve some Psyker dominance). There's even room for the venom in the bastion (although putting a zoanthrope in there might be nice too)

pinecone77 wrote:


I would be doing a happy dance if Stealers got Flesh Hooks, even if the price went up (a little ) That would make them back into a "good" use of points. (for me anyway )

Move through cover should really ignore this terrain troubles.

If flyers are hit at bs -2 then i'd be wary of using flyrants too much.

luke1705 wrote:

 wyomingfox wrote:
Well if Tyanids can now ally with themselves, a 1850 Battle Forged list could have a Skyblight formation plus 3 additional Dakka Flyrants, 3-10 man gaunts, a bastion, a Zoe, a Venomthrope, and still have 25 points to spare. Definitely something I would like to try out.

That is interesting. I do wonder though at what point tyrants' benefits are outweighed by their own points cost. I don't know that I would take more than 3, as that's already almost 700 points, with 4 clocking in at over 900. When half your army is 4 models, it seems like an easy way to get crushed if those models can be dealt with. I think it would be better to have more of your FMCs be other creatures so that you get similar durability for less points (although who knows that psychic choir might be something fierce, especially depending on how Shadow in the Warp changes). For example, I think I would trim it down to 3 flyrants, turn the gaunts into 2 bare bones warrior squads and add in an additional crone and 2 solo Zoans (again, really thinking Shadow will be pretty sweet for Nids to achieve some Psyker dominance). There's even room for the venom in the bastion (although putting a zoanthrope in there might be nice too)

I agree, Flyrants are only taken by me because they are the best source of synapse we have, I think even with unbound I wouldn't sensibly do more than 3. They really are a pricey unit. 60 points a wound.

Even with only -2 to BS for Snap Firing, with grounding tests being a much smaller threat I'd say Flyrants will be more durable than they are currently.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Even with only -2 to BS for Snap Firing, with grounding tests being a much smaller threat I'd say Flyrants will be more durable than they are currently.

I'm still going to be running maximum Skyblight swarm and living artillery for my comp lists.

Anyone who has a Harridan could you provide some dimensions for me? Height (with/without base) wing span, and length please.

Random note of interest in the WD Battle Report between 'nids and Orks. Even the GW staff forgets that Trevigons are not characters now. Also probably means there is no intention of FAQ them to be characters in 7e, so no Trevi Warlords.