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He might be able to jump over those Ork barricades, or a sandbag wall, or something... if for some reason you were treating those as Impassable during a game, for no apparent reason. Yeah, 'Leaper' just says 'these rules have not been playtested, or even thought about all that hard.'

Can jump units still finish their move on top of impassable if they are able to be placed on top physically? With a l dangerous terrain test?

And do we know if the D is on a standard oval or a Knight oval base?

I'll be getting one regardless and I'll make it work in my lists I have no doubt. I can probably afford to drop my Tervigon for it, although she is an anchor to my MSU list.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
He might be able to jump over those Ork barricades, or a sandbag wall, or something... if for some reason you were treating those as Impassable during a game, for no apparent reason. Yeah, 'Leaper' just says 'these rules have not been playtested, or even thought about all that hard.'

It also allows him to not be penalized when charging into terrain, as I noted earlier.

Where are people getting the shrouded idea about Malanthropes from?

Eldercaveman wrote:
Where are people getting the shrouded idea about Malanthropes from?

 xttz wrote:

Malanthrope: Elite instead of HQ. Units of 1-3 at 85pts each.

Infantry, T5 W4 3+

Tox miasma, Regen, Fleet, MTC, Shrouded, poisoned 2+, synapse, shadow,
spore cloud (same rule as Venomthropes)
prey adaption & grasping tail. Tail gives a 50/50 chance to halve opponent's attacks and drop Init to 1 in a challenge.

rigeld2 wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
Where are people getting the shrouded idea about Malanthropes from?

 xttz wrote:

Malanthrope: Elite instead of HQ. Units of 1-3 at 85pts each.

Infantry, T5 W4 3+

Tox miasma, Regen, Fleet, MTC, Shrouded, poisoned 2+, synapse, shadow,
spore cloud (same rule as Venomthropes)
prey adaption & grasping tail. Tail gives a 50/50 chance to halve opponent's attacks and drop Init to 1 in a challenge.

Wow that took some big edits since FW open day!

 tetrisphreak wrote:
The gladiator (dimachaeron) only moves 6" -- but isn't slowed by terrain and has fleet (thank you adrenals). It's a street sweeper in melee thanks to 6 base attacks (5 +2 ccw) and rampage.

In a typical game both armies move towards one another - this thing will see assault more regularly than some of you might think. Vs armies that prefer to turtle up and remain stagnant, flyrants and a crone or two will be putting early pressure on their lines as the gladiator approaches.

Overall for the points I think it's a great damage dealer - it's on foot style of approach just helps balance it. If the enemy hides from it all game then just dominate the board and win by objectives.

Just my opinion. ^

I agree that you can get it into combat, I just think that anything which is moving 6" a turn and is purely a CC monster finds it difficult to get there turns 1-2. Also I think you need to be able to move around the board quickly in 7th, the games ive played so far are EVERYWHERE and I would prefer units that can move quickly. This thing will lag behind your flyers so much so that you will be going in piecemeal which is what your opponent wants.

I like that it is in the FA slot though I don't think most people were really maxing those slots out.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
He might be able to jump over those Ork barricades, or a sandbag wall, or something... if for some reason you were treating those as Impassable during a game, for no apparent reason. Yeah, 'Leaper' just says 'these rules have not been playtested, or even thought about all that hard.'

It also allows him to not be penalized when charging into terrain, as I noted earlier.

It already has MTC, so it wasn't penalized the -2" for the charge anyway.

As we play it, landing in terrain qualifies as "moving through difficult terrain"; do you play it differently? Do you allow jump troops to strike at profile Init?

 Iechine wrote:
Got in a 1000pt campaign game against Frenchy at DZ today, and yes, I did get Warp Blast from a Zoanthrope off at a landraider and I did pen it, and I rolled a...4, so no explosion, but it can be done.

The same Zoey also got it off and killed an assault centurion, so I probably used up all my Warp Blasts for the year in one game.

Sadly, we tied.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So if the Navy isnt too busy with me, I should be able to take leave in October and attend Mechanicon in PA, which would be my 'most serious' tourney to date. Rumor has it that its 1500pts and GW rules, so I've got two lists that I am looking at.

Ill have a tourney next month to test them out, but I want to pick one and refine it and practice it, something Ive never really done.

Here is the first.

Flyrant w/Devourers, electro
Flyrant w/Devourers, electro

Venomthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope (or a 2nd Venom)

Ripper w/DS
Ripper w/DS
Ripper w/DS

2x Carnifex w/Devourers
2x Carnifex w/Devourers
Mawloc

I do take issue with having the Carnifex grouped, as I find them much more effective spread out. So part of me wants something like


Flyrant w/Devourers, electro
Flyrant w/Devourers, electro

Venomthrope
Zoanthrope

Ripper w/DS
Ripper w/DS
Ripper w/DS
Ripper

Carnifex w/Devourers
Carnifex w/Devourers
Carnifex w/Devourers
Carnifex w/Devourers
Carnifex w/Devourers

Which lets me really spread out and control the board, but then I loose the easy venomthrope cover saves. An even further variation could make room for a Crone.

And in no variation can I afford adrenal glands like I always do on the fexes, which does worry me.

With regards to the 2nd list, make sure the tournament allows for double-CAD armies. If the tournament follows the lead of BAO/LVO/Nova, then they won't allow for dual-CAD armies. Check with the tournament first.

Personally, I don't have a problem with running 2x carnifexes as opposed to single fexes. The only disadvantage of a dual-fex build is they may run into problems if your opponent can kill off your backfield synapse. Otherwise, if you have to available slots (i.e. if the tournament allows for 2x CAD's), then go ahead and run them separately if you want. If not, then your only option would be to squadron them up.

I do, however, like the mawloc in the list. He may be a superstar in one game, or he may just miss all game. However, what I really like about him is his mobility and the fact that he affects how your opponent would play. Just having him in your list will restrict/affect how your opponent may deploy and how he would move his units (best case scenario is that it really discourages him from moving a unit that he should move). In this way, the mawloc is a force-multiplier of sorts and those types of units are always useful.

For competitive Tyranids, I believe there are 2 characteristics that makes them really competitive:


1. Mobility. You NEED high mobility in 7E. You NEED high mobility to compete with the top-tier tournament armies. If not, then a lot of armies are going to make your day. Moreover, you cannot rely on Onslaught or Master of Ambush to give you the mobility that you seek. Consider them a bonus. Otherwise, your army needs to be built on a solid foundation of mobility.

For your list, dual flyrants are a necessity. I consider them must-haves in any serious tournament Tyranid army that hopes to compete with the other top-tier armies. Heck, the more, the better. Run them as allies or in a formation to bring in more. The flyrant is arguably the most flexible unit in the army as well as its best force-multiplier unit. Mobility, resiliency (due to being a FMC), offense, anti-air unit, synapse and psychic beacon - the flyrant does it all and is the most well rounded unit in the codex. All the other HQ's are just role players that may be strong in 1 area but lacking in another. The all-purpose flyrant does it all and he does it quite well.

Mawloc has good mobility with the ability to pop up anywhere.

I like rippers because of their ability to enter the game almost anywhere. That flexibility alone is why I prefer them over gants nowadays. You can predict where gants will be. You can't really predict where the ripper swarms will be.

While carnifexes don't really have mobility, at least their firepower gives them some reach. That makes them better than non-fast Tyranid assault brutes. So they might not be the fastest, but at least they are respectable with their ability to reach-out-and-touch-somebody. However, if it were me, I'd consider swapping out 1 or 2 dakkafexes for other, faster units to complement your flyrants.


2. Force Multipliers. All the top-tier armies have them (well, almost all). A Force Multiplier Unit (FMU) is a unit that not only can stand on its own, but it helps to make the rest of the army better as well.

Flyrants are the best FMU in the codex.

Venomthrope is another high FMU unit which makes your entire army that much more resilient. And he's cheap too, which is great for a supporting unit.

Zoans are a cheap means to add synapse support in your backfield as well as to buff up your psychic prowess. He can also add some AT against heavy armor as a secondary source. And he's cheap too, which is great for a supporting unit.

Mawlocs provide one of the few AP2 offense in the army and will affect how your opponent deploys/moves his units.


Now going back to your list. You have respectable mobility, but you won't be able to keep up with the speed of the better armies. You have decent FMU's in your army, but a couple of weak points in it can really ruin your day. What are the problem areas in your list? There are 2 main ones:

1. Flyrants will be flying as a duet. Nothing in your list (other than the mawloc) can match the speed of your flyrants. You really need to take great care in how you use your flyrants. Otherwise, you will hit your opponents in waves (flyrants first, the rest of the army later), thus giving them time to try to focus down on your flyrants before dealing with the rest of the army. Especially if you are playing against Tau or Eldar, who excel in picking off trickling units.

2. The venomthrope protects the rest of the army and the zoanthrope provides synapse for them, but who will protect your venom/zoan? Unless there is terrain for them to hide as they advance, the more experienced player will pick off first your venom and then your zoan. You either need redundancy or something like a bastion to protect them or you pray that there is BLOS terrain conveniently placed near your deployment zone.


Hope this helps. Good luck.

coredump wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
He might be able to jump over those Ork barricades, or a sandbag wall, or something... if for some reason you were treating those as Impassable during a game, for no apparent reason. Yeah, 'Leaper' just says 'these rules have not been playtested, or even thought about all that hard.'

It also allows him to not be penalized when charging into terrain, as I noted earlier.

It already has MTC, so it wasn't penalized the -2" for the charge anyway.

As we play it, landing in terrain qualifies as "moving through difficult terrain"; do you play it differently? Do you allow jump troops to strike at profile Init?

You didn't move through it, you explicitly moved over it, so yes - Jump troops strike at init if using their Jump move.

...surely landing in difficult terrain counts as moving through it.

Does spore cloud stack on each other? Three separate Malanthropes walking behind two Dimmys........2+spore cloud save? Or am I just delusional and wishful thinking here?

Here's my post on why we need to stop pretending this guy is good, as well as how he should be played if you insist on using him. These quotes are just picked up from thoughts throughout the last page or so.

He's a huge fire magnet. Not only is the guy scary in combat, but the model is big and scary as well. He'll draw a lot of fire, so better have those venomthropes/malanthrope close by.

How is this a plus to the model? He's a huge firemagnet, yet pays more per wound than Tyrannofex. Dima has the defensive stats of a Mawloc (who also draws alot fire) and yet spends 3-4 turns of shooting on the board before he even threatens anything (compared to the Mawloc who threatens almost EVERYTHING before he hits the board, and continues being a threat from that point onwards up until he dies) and yet, costs nearly 150% the price of a Mawloc. If the Dima guy is drawing fire - its a bad thing. If he dies before he makes it into combat, you have lost on the trade. For every 2 wounds he takes in shooting is an extra Mawloc wound you could have had (just an example).

Vs armies that prefer to turtle up and remain stagnant, flyrants and a crone or two will be putting early pressure on their lines as the gladiator approaches.

So not only are you breaking up your army in piecemeal, you are basically just saying "ok well here is 400 pts of my army doing nothing except making run moves for the first 3-4 turns of the game, but its ok because I have other things doing pressure instead". What you should be doing is just taking all the things that do put on pressure, piecemeal aside just the decision to include this guy over a good model is watering down your army better than nothing else bar the Swarmlord.

I find it funny that since 7th edition dropped, infiltrating with Master of Ambush has been a legitimate tactic for getting things in range fast, but now people don't seem to want to like the D, no one has mentioned using it?

Master of Ambush is not something you build your list around having every game. You build a list with models who gain hugely with MoA - you build a list with models that still tear gak up every game MoA or not. Dakkafex is a great unit, mobility or not he has a consistent 24" projection from his starting point every turn, more with Onslaught (far more common than MoA). Dima would benefit hugely from outflanking, and definitely be playable. Outflanking is still no Deepstrike however, much easier to play around, and being that you'd have to take at least 2 Dimas to stop your entire investment getting shot down turn 1 regardless, its a risky move to make. If I was assured MoA each game however, I'd have a go at playing 3. It's literally all these guys would need. However they don't have it consistently. You will have MoA less than 1/3 of the time. Those 2/3 games, you lose.

In a typical game both armies move towards one another - this thing will see assault more regularly than some of you might think.

Every single army in the game outranges us. Even Orks have a shooting range advantage on us. If you are not playing Nids, and your opponent doubled down on this weakness, by sinking 400-600 points into a couple of copies this guy - why the hell would you run directly at your opponent? It maka no sense. To highlight this flaw from a competitive perspective - you will never make it into combat with Eldar, you will never make it into combat with Tau or AM. Against these armies, packing even one Dima is an auto-lose. You now just sunk even 200 points into a creature with likely no return on - you will never even catch anything in Eldar or DE, they don't ever have to kill it. Against other shooty armies, best case scenario, you sacrifice all your aggression for a unit that threatens nothing till turn 3 (BEST case scenario gets you a turn 3, but often turn 4 against these armies), where they either choose to deal with it there and then, as you have been playing an army with a handicap of somewhere between -200 and -600 points for the first 3 turns, they likely have plenty of units left capable of dealing with it. Or they just let it wreak havoc for a turn or two. Better hope it deals 200 points of damage.

Now, to a varying degree as you go down the ladder of shootiness to choppiness ratio, you will start to have slightly improved chances to make it to combat, against the less shooty armies. But when I say slightly, I mean slightly. There is no reason to play against a Tyranid list doing this except by doing anything bar moving back to max range, shooting, rinse and repeat, and letting him gain on you a couple of inches every turn dependant on his run move. Hoorah for giving him Fleet I guess. At least this guy isn't an autolose vs Blood Angels, like he is against Eldar (hoorah!).

This is why Gargoyles are his best friend. FOR GAMES AGAINST ARMIES IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS LADDER, closer-ranged firepower but not forced to assault you regardless (probably mostly Space Marines & CSM), they are cheap fast units to catch gak, tie it up in combat for a turn, and let him catch it. Ideally, the best way to run him would be with as many MSU Garg squads as possible, so that while he already puts in work against Blood Angels and Khorne Bezerkers lol (i.e. two armies you needed absolutely no help against ), he might actually be able to do something in a more midtier match up. Still would be a nightmare for hurting your army so many points in unreliability, auto-lose in most games, and not worth his points in durability in ever, but at LEAST he stands the CHANCE to maybe make his points back in SOME midtier match ups. Someone else touched on the concept here, and gets it:

This is, once again, assuming best case scenario, and that you are playing against an army who couldn't afford to deploy too far back. Then again, you are (well, would hypothetically be, if it fit) dedicating a lot of points to supporting a lot of other points, I don't know how it would play out in practice, but if it was easily denied by deploying backfield, you can bet a lot of good players will do it if it's the right choice.




I think the key to playing with him if you were for some reason forced to play one (or just couldn't help yourself from lining GW's pockets no matter what poop they serve up on your platter) would be to make sure EVERYTHING else your army is a threat, that doesn't get hampered by units deploying backfield, or even makes your army benefit from it. Examples are, Biovores for the range, FMC's for the speed and projection, and stuff like using Hive Commander to outflank a blob of Warriors and Devilgaunts, spammed Mawlocs, etc etc, I'm sure you can use your imagination to find units that fit these categories. Units that benefit from backfield deployment like Biovores are good because it keeps them very safe, Dima will deal with anything that sticks around to deal with them (this was still the case in regular Tyranid lists of course tho, with Biovores deploying behind a wall of bugs, but at least this way you can have the same effect while playing a reserve army). FMC's are acceptable, just because they don't necessarily get hurt too much by range issues, and may even find benefits from enemy units being clumped, by use of their templates. Units that benefit from them being backfield are outflanking, as prime targets are likely on both board edges, as well as the fact that its harder for your opponent to punish you for outflanking/deepstriking, and of course, coming piecemeal if they have less early game threats due to not being able to deploy them centrefield safely, while you aim for a big turn 2 alpha.

This is how I would recommend playing the Dima. However, while this sounds nice on paper, it's unlikely to ever be worth its points. You are basically just providing that same wall of CC threat that Nid's always have in a brick, just in the manifestation of a single unit capable of hurting anything who wants to test him. But 200 is a lot for one. And because he isn't extra durable, you do need at least 2 or this threat doesn't exist. Your opponent doesn't "lose out" if this thing draws fire. 200 points for 6 wounds is not a good ratio. It is a tradeoff for aggression and massively versatility on units like Carnifex and the Exocrine. For this guy however, its just one more setback that he really did NOT need. And all this said, its not likely to consistently have the effect you are hoping for, even against good players. Most armies can deal with 12 T6 wounds in two turns, its one of the issues we face in general as Tyranids. I think as a whole, the concept is just flawed. Taking a Dima in your list, is the wrong way to play the Dima. This is probly the best way to make light of a gak situation. In practice, still might not do anything, as the concept behind making him "not suck as much" isnt even foolproof, but its better to hope for than nothing. Also, if you are allowed to take FW you can probably take dual CAD, just spam Mawloc's and these guys and you might win a game although its gimmicky as hell lol.

Anyone fancy doing some maths on how well the Dimy will do in combat against various armour values?

From the Tyranid Hive

So I emailed forge world about the dimachaeron and have just had a response!

My email was:

Hi Forge World Team,

So I'm just flicking through my new imperial armour book and had two questions regarding the Dimachaeron rules- hope you can answer!

Question 1. As per the leaper rule, if a Dimachaeron assaults a unit in cover- does it strike at it's normal initiative 6 or is it slowed by difficult terrain? The wording suggests that as it moves freely and OVER terrain, it would not be effected.

Second query is I notice that it does not have the fearless USR. Is this an oversight? All other Tyranid mc's have the Fearless USR so just abit odd that this one doesn't.

One last thing, why is this a fast attack choice if it only moves 6? It's very slow! Maybe errata in a 12 inch move? Go on. I'll buy one if you do!

Best regards.
Simon
"

The response I was met with was the following:


Hi,
Thank you for your email. The answers to your questions are as follows -

1. When using Leaper the Dimachaeron is affected normally by charging through difficult terrain, but does get the other listed benefits.

2. This is not an oversight. It is not a mindless killing machine, it is willing to fall back, re-group and attack again. Plus it is Leadership 10.

3. Its movement is correct. It was believed that Fast Attack was the correct section for the creature to be in, with regards to its abilities.


If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.

Regards,
Forge World

While #1 was to be expected, #2 and #3 is a bunch of fail.

Eldercaveman wrote:
Anyone fancy doing some maths on how well the Dimy will do in combat against various armour values?

Going to come out and say he won't be that hot against vehicles. He's about par with Trygons and Hive Tyrants.

His great big uber +4 Str attack only comes into play against infantry.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Well. That scuppered plans.

Friend had serious family issues come up - so, being a friend I backburned the plans to paint. I can field an army consisting of things already painted - might not be ideal but would rather be there if he needed me to talk to than be too preoccupied and stressed out.

So, presented...

What will be attending - 1800 points, Lords of War allowed, charity tournament with the emphasis being on lighter lists rather than super competitive must win or Else.



Flyrant - 2 x Twin Devourers
Flyrant - 2 x Twin Devourers

14 Termagants - Fleshborers
14 Termagants - Spinefists
5 Tyranid Warriors - 3 Deathspitters, 2 Rending Claws

Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
2 Venomthropes

3 Raveners - Rending Claws

Trygon

Barbed Hierodule

- All painted, all within a single force organisation chart and generally enough for this week so I can be a friend.

Me again. Working on a bit this week to see if I can get a unit done in a day - if I can, then good news!

Plan would be to replace the Trygon and 3 Raveners...

5 Shrikes - 2 Twin Boneswords, 2 LW/Boneswords, Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs.

 N.I.B. wrote:
From the Tyranid Hive

So I emailed forge world about the dimachaeron and have just had a response!

My email was:

Hi Forge World Team,

So I'm just flicking through my new imperial armour book and had two questions regarding the Dimachaeron rules- hope you can answer!

Question 1. As per the leaper rule, if a Dimachaeron assaults a unit in cover- does it strike at it's normal initiative 6 or is it slowed by difficult terrain? The wording suggests that as it moves freely and OVER terrain, it would not be effected.

Second query is I notice that it does not have the fearless USR. Is this an oversight? All other Tyranid mc's have the Fearless USR so just abit odd that this one doesn't.

One last thing, why is this a fast attack choice if it only moves 6? It's very slow! Maybe errata in a 12 inch move? Go on. I'll buy one if you do!

Best regards.
Simon
"

The response I was met with was the following:


Hi,
Thank you for your email. The answers to your questions are as follows -

1. When using Leaper the Dimachaeron is affected normally by charging through difficult terrain, but does get the other listed benefits.

2. This is not an oversight. It is not a mindless killing machine, it is willing to fall back, re-group and attack again. Plus it is Leadership 10.

3. Its movement is correct. It was believed that Fast Attack was the correct section for the creature to be in, with regards to its abilities.


If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.

Regards,
Forge World

While #1 was to be expected, #2 and #3 is a bunch of fail.

Makes sense to me, but then again I'm totally okay with fluff reasons for why things are the way they are. The lack is fearless isn't going to be an issue most of the time(for me anyway).

 N.I.B. wrote:
From the Tyranid Hive

So I emailed forge world about the dimachaeron and have just had a response!

My email was:

Hi Forge World Team,

So I'm just flicking through my new imperial armour book and had two questions regarding the Dimachaeron rules- hope you can answer!

Question 1. As per the leaper rule, if a Dimachaeron assaults a unit in cover- does it strike at it's normal initiative 6 or is it slowed by difficult terrain? The wording suggests that as it moves freely and OVER terrain, it would not be effected.

Second query is I notice that it does not have the fearless USR. Is this an oversight? All other Tyranid mc's have the Fearless USR so just abit odd that this one doesn't.

One last thing, why is this a fast attack choice if it only moves 6? It's very slow! Maybe errata in a 12 inch move? Go on. I'll buy one if you do!

Best regards.
Simon
"

The response I was met with was the following:


Hi,
Thank you for your email. The answers to your questions are as follows -

1. When using Leaper the Dimachaeron is affected normally by charging through difficult terrain, but does get the other listed benefits.

2. This is not an oversight. It is not a mindless killing machine, it is willing to fall back, re-group and attack again. Plus it is Leadership 10.

3. Its movement is correct. It was believed that Fast Attack was the correct section for the creature to be in, with regards to its abilities.


If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.

Regards,
Forge World

While #1 was to be expected, #2 and #3 is a bunch of fail.

Good messages from the hive, thanks a bunch for sharing N.I.B.

Also I actually lol'ed @ "Maybe errata in a 12 inch move? Go on. I'll buy one if you do!"

foto69man wrote:

 foto69man wrote:

jpevansiii wrote:

 foto69man wrote:
Thank you all for convincing me to buy this model...amazing detail and I can't wait to field it tomorrow!

Good for you. I ordered mine a few days ago. Still is in the mail on its way! I just hope it gets here in time for an 1850 tournament this weekend.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 foto69man wrote:
Thank you all for convincing me to buy this model...amazing detail and I can't wait to field it tomorrow!

Would you be an awesome human being and take some dimensions for me?

I will take dimensions and post pics of the battle tomorrw as it's 1:30a here. But she did AMAZING...didn't lose a wound...and popped out 20 gargoyles at the end to take an objective

And a slight teaser...

Here's the pic with measurements, and the wings are 14" from cannon to wing tip and 8" from joint to fullest point. Included a Banshee, Crisis Suit, Winged Tyrant, and Tyrannofex for size comparison

Cheers, is your Harridan magnetised/would it be to hard to magnetise the wings?


@DarkSabre, even without the str 10 attack it can still make 7 Str 7 ap2 attacks on the charge + plus hammer of wrath.

Thanks for the run down man! They had posted on dakka that it would most likely be 1500 pts, but I finally got a reply today and it looks like...

"The format will be very similar to past years (which are on our site). The army construction will be 1850 points - Battle Forged and all current 40K rules are legal (codex/supplement/dataslate/formation/Forge World). There will be no house rules. "

I take this to mean CAD is in (I think thats been a thing of theres, they try to keep it as close to the book as possible, which can be scary or cool, depending) so Ive basically combined these two lists to give...

Electroshock Flyrant w/Devourers
Electroshock Flyrant w/Devourers

Venomthrope

DS Ripper Brood
DS Ripper Brood

Adrenal Gland Carnifex w/Devourers
Adrenal Gland Carnifex w/Devourers
Adrenal Gland Mawloc

Electroshock Flyrant w/Devourers

Venomthrope
Zoanthrope

DS Ripper Brood
Ripper Brood

Adrenal Gland Carnifex w/Devourers
Adrenal Gland Carnifex w/Devourers



I think we can all agree on most parts of this list. Zoey would have to kick out dominion, often, as would some of the tyrants. The independent Carnifexes require redundant firepower to kill, and the two venomthropes will obviously be walking behind them. Not everyone
will agree with Adrenal glands, but Ive never taken them on Carnifexes and regretted it. Its so important they make their charges once they are in range of whatever vehicle that needs to die, and it also makes the most out of turn 1 running and onslaught.

The Mawloc could be a Crone, but like J said it greatly affects the opponents movement. So do the wall of fexes, so heres hoping Im close to the list I want.

I understand the AG on the fexes, not sure about on 4 of them, but okay.

Why on the Mawloc? Just points left over? What about dropping the mawloc AG and putting spinebanks on the fexes?

Against a lot of flyers, fexes can actually help out. 4ish S6 hits can help in a pinch. (IOW, the crone may not be *that* missed.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldercaveman wrote:

@DarkSabre, even without the str 10 attack it can still make 7 Str 7 ap2 attacks on the charge + plus hammer of wrath.

S8 on the charge. (weapon is +1, AG is +1)

Points left over, and Id prefer her getting where she needs to go and killing S10 armor with regular attacks instead of smashing.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Every single army in the game outranges us. Even Orks have a shooting range advantage on us. If you are not playing Nids, and your opponent doubled down on this weakness,

This is the thing I dont understand about other fleets when it comes to spawning their armies. Why is it that we recognize the disadvantage of being outranged and outgun by every army but, we only apply it to our cc units? Is the dakkafex immune to these weapons? Is it less likely to be shoot to pieces before it can do anything than a dimachaeron? We say it is easy for us to be blasted off the table but in the same breath we say that living artillery is one of our better options, it cannot be both. I want to know how giving a tyranid a short range weapon makes it live longer?

 SHUPPET wrote:
by sinking 400-600 points into a couple of copies this guy - why the hell would you run directly at your opponent? It maka no sense. To highlight this flaw from a competitive perspective - you will never make it into combat with Eldar, you will never make it into combat with Tau or AM.

You are not running towards your enemy you are running towards an objective. Inorder to win the game they have to claim objectives, if you place objectives 12 inches away from each other combine with the large oval base you are threatning both objectives.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Against these armies, packing even one Dima is an auto-lose.

This is a little unfair, you cannot be inside the box that hard. In this post you mention ways you can use the dimachaeron so I know you dont believe this.

 SHUPPET wrote:
You now just sunk even 200 points into a creature with likely no return on - you will never even catch anything in Eldar or DE, they don't ever have to kill it. Against other shooty armies, best case scenario, you sacrifice all your aggression for a unit that threatens nothing till turn 3 (BEST case scenario gets you a turn 3, but often turn 4 against these armies), where they either choose to deal with it there and then, as you have been playing an army with a handicap of somewhere between -200 and -600 points for the first 3 turns, they likely have plenty of units left capable of dealing with it. Or they just let it wreak havoc for a turn or two. Better hope it deals 200 points of damage.

Placing objectives in the right position is the easiest way to make cc units relevant. I guess it is easy to see it as a point sink if you have a min-max list where you use rippers and try to max out on MCS. I dont know why list are posted up you need flyrants and dakkafexes is the response, .

Lol

 CKO wrote:
This is the thing I dont understand about other fleets when it comes to spawning our armies. Why is it that we recognize the disadvantage of being outranged and outgun by every army but, we only apply it to our cc units? Is the dakkafex immune to these weapons? Is it less likely to be shoot to pieces before it can do anything than a dimachaeron? We say it is easy for us to be blasted off the table but in the same breath we say that living artillery is one of our better options, it cannot be both. I want to know how giving a tyranid a short range weapon makes it live longer?

It doesn't make it live longer. It makes it have an effect longer.

A Dakkafex has a 24" bubble of effect. A Dime has ~14" bubble of effect. Bigger bubble == scarier.

I guess it is easy to see it as a point sink if you have a min-max list where you use rippers and try to max out on MCS.

Which is a very popular build (and my favorite).

 CKO wrote:
I want to know how giving a tyranid a short range weapon makes it live longer?

 gigasnail wrote:
Lol

Dont be laughing at me bro Im crazy!

rigeld2 wrote:
It doesn't make it live longer. It makes it have an effect longer.

A Dakkafex has a 24" bubble of effect. A Dime has ~14" bubble of effect. Bigger bubble == scarier.

Scarier to who? Everything outranges that 24 inch bubble, 36 inch scatter lasers, bright/dark lances, and heavy burst cannons you will not touch your enemy if he puts any effort into it.

I guess it is easy to see it as a point sink if you have a min-max list where you use rippers and try to max out on MCS.

rigeld2 wrote:
Which is a very popular build (and my favorite).

Its a good list but easily countered. Everyone seems to be throwing fast balls while you should be working on a curve ball especially when playing nids. You show up with flyrants and dakkafexes do you think your opponent knows what needs to be done?

 CKO wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
It doesn't make it live longer. It makes it have an effect longer.

A Dakkafex has a 24" bubble of effect. A Dime has ~14" bubble of effect. Bigger bubble == scarier.

Scarier to who? Everything outranges that 24 inch bubble, 36 inch scatter lasers, bright/dark lances, and heavy burst cannons you will not touch your enemy if he puts any effort into it.

And somehow a Dime is going to magically cross that exact same distance? You realize you're defeating your own argument, right?
In addition, your opponents entire army is not made up of these fast moving high STR, high ROF weapon models. It just isn't. And your opponent also needs to hold objectives.
Dakkafexes have shown their value. Dimes are new and have a lot going against them.

Its a good list but easily countered. Everyone seems to be throwing fast balls while you should be working on a curve ball especially when playing nids. You show up with flyrants and dakkafexes do you think your opponent knows what needs to be done?

I'm sure he does. But a normal TAC doesn't usually have the high str high ROF shots that it takes to tackle a bunch of MCs.
Sure, if you tailor against it it's a trivial fight. What's your point?

rigeld2 wrote:
And somehow a Dime is going to magically cross that exact same distance? You realize you're defeating your own argument, right?
In addition, your opponents entire army is not made up of these fast moving high STR, high ROF weapon models. It just isn't. And your opponent also needs to hold objectives.
Dakkafexes have shown their value. Dimes are new and have a lot going against them.

I'm sure he does. But a normal TAC doesn't usually have the high str high ROF shots that it takes to tackle a bunch of MCs.
Sure, if you tailor against it it's a trivial fight. What's your point?

The point is that all monstrous creatures except for flyers have the same survivability issues dont act like dakkafexes get a pass. Everything can be shot off the board before they do anything but its not something that only applies to cc units, it applies to the dakkafexes aswell. The same way you dedicate all your points towards medium range firepower you can do the same with cc units, its just that one is easier to do and requires you to take small bugs.

 CKO wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Every single army in the game outranges us. Even Orks have a shooting range advantage on us. If you are not playing Nids, and your opponent doubled down on this weakness,

This is the thing I dont understand about other fleets when it comes to spawning their armies. Why is it that we recognize the disadvantage of being outranged and outgun by every army but, we only apply it to our cc units? Is the dakkafex immune to these weapons? Is it less likely to be shoot to pieces before it can do anything than a dimachaeron? We say it is easy for us to be blasted off the table but in the same breath we say that living artillery is one of our better options, it cannot be both. I want to know how giving a tyranid a short range weapon makes it live longer?

You do get that nids are designed as a short range firepower army first, Assault army second? Despite the current fluff all being about the close combat, the original intent of the nids was to be a 6-18" army shooting army. This meant nids' also needed solid assault options. The lack of grenades despite strong melee capacity tends to reflect this still. The Flyrant and Dakkafex are posterbugs for this, massive short range firepower with enough assault to finish off the survivors.

 CKO wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
And somehow a Dime is going to magically cross that exact same distance? You realize you're defeating your own argument, right?
In addition, your opponents entire army is not made up of these fast moving high STR, high ROF weapon models. It just isn't. And your opponent also needs to hold objectives.
Dakkafexes have shown their value. Dimes are new and have a lot going against them.

I'm sure he does. But a normal TAC doesn't usually have the high str high ROF shots that it takes to tackle a bunch of MCs.
Sure, if you tailor against it it's a trivial fight. What's your point?

The point is that all monstrous creatures except for flyers have the same survivability issues dont act like dakkafexes get a pass. Everything can be shot off the board before they do anything but its not something that only applies to cc units, it applies to the dakkafexes aswell. The same way you dedicate all your points towards medium range firepower you can do the same with cc units, its just that one is easier to do and requires you to take small bugs.

Yes it applies to Dakkafexes. The point is that Dakkafexes can contribute significantly sooner than a Dime can. And that's the issue with dedicating all your points into assault units. Unless they're fast they just won't make it into assault soon enough for them to matter.
I'm not excusing Dakkafexes at all. I'm saying that they have a larger bubble of effect and can therefore contribute better if the meta is all lascannons.