The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)

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**Spoletta**

jy2 wrote:
Zagman wrote:
Way to go Jim! Wish I could have been there, but it's half the country away.

8 out if the top 13 were SM. I guess ObSec MSU is the real deal. Adapt or Perish.

Thanks!

Yeah, marines are so hard to deal with for bugs, especially when they run an alpha-strike army like White Scars bikes or drop pods and they are going 1st. Now with battle brothers, they have a lot of obscene combinations that Eldar and Tau used to have back in 6th. Marines, Eldar and perhaps Necrons are probably the 3 best armies currently.

Well played Jy2, sometimes the dices just want otherwise.

What i'd really like to ask though is how was the game atmosphere compared to 6E events. More specifically, 6E events turned from "Events of high level fairplay" to Warmachine style "Show me your cheese". How would you rate the games you had at this event? Good games were both players have fun or "Throw more cheese!" kind of games?

**tag8833**

jy2 wrote:
Zagman wrote:
Way to go Jim! Wish I could have been there, but it's half the country away.

8 out if the top 13 were SM. I guess ObSec MSU is the real deal. Adapt or Perish.

Thanks!

Yeah, marines are so hard to deal with for bugs, especially when they run an alpha-strike army like White Scars bikes or drop pods and they are going 1st. Now with battle brothers, they have a lot of obscene combinations that Eldar and Tau used to have back in 6th. Marines, Eldar and perhaps Necrons are probably the 3 best armies currently.

Is the reason Bugs did so well on Day 1 and poorly on Day 2 related to the matchup algorithm used at BAO?

**coredump**

CKO wrote:
Last time saying this the DIME ROCKS!!!

Damn, I knew the Nids were good but I didnt see others using them at GTs this soon! I am expecting first place from the nids I want nothing but barren rocks left!

SHUPPET wrote:
[
3/6, 1 of which was a luck match up against the player at the very bottom of the ladder, the other 2 in the early rounds where the pairings aren't yet based on skill level. It looks like every game against a higher level opponent was a loss, pretty much what I expected from Dima lists unfortunately.
.

Lots of conclusions to draw from just one army....at just one event.... that didn't even use the Dimathingy...

.

**jifel**

Congrats to all of the Nid players at the BAO. Even if the dice decided against you, there was plenty of excitement, and there was still a good deal of success all around. I really would like to make it to the BAO one of these days...

Now, the problem seems to be dealing with Space Marines. Maybe that's a West Coast thing, because I don't really see Marines as *that* big of a threat. How exactly are they Alpha-striking Tyranids? FMCs near a Venom Bastion can jink for an easy 2++ cover save, and then we just throw all of our DTW dice at the ignores cover power if they have it. With a bit of positioning it also isn't hard to surround the Bastion in bodies so that no one can land within 6" of it for a Melta shot. Lot's of Objective Secured is, of course, not fun, but we can usually take out Rhinos with ease, and weight of fire usually serves to take out those pesky SMurfs.

What exactly was the winning list?

**jy2**

With regards to the Dimachaeron, let me say once again that the Tyranid player did not run the Dima in the tournament. He only brought it there for show.

Spoletta wrote:

Well played Jy2, sometimes the dices just want otherwise.

What i'd really like to ask though is how was the game atmosphere compared to 6E events. More specifically, 6E events turned from "Events of high level fairplay" to Warmachine style "Show me your cheese". How would you rate the games you had at this event? Good games were both players have fun or "Throw more cheese!" kind of games?

It's similar. There's still a lot of deathstar builds and still a lot of combos out there in 7th, only now the combos are more on the Imperial side than the Xenos side instead.

The main difference now is in the troops. Whereas last edition de-emphasized the troop in favor of more killing power, in this edition it is more about Objective Secured, as the strong performance by marines appear to indicate. Even the top Eldar player (3rd) had very strong ObSec troops (9 in total). As for marines, it was all about the ObSec.

tag8833 wrote:

Is the reason Bugs did so well on Day 1 and poorly on Day 2 related to the matchup algorithm used at BAO?

It was probably a combination of matchups and some luck. Normally in tournaments, you start off getting paired randomly. As you progress, you play other winners and the matchups get harder and harder.

If you got lucky, you might get paired with some easier matchups initially. But the more dominant your win, the tougher your matchup will be in the next round as the armies with the higher battle points usually face off against each other.

Now I can't really say how the other Tyranid players matched up, but almost all of my matches were tough. On Day #1, 2 of my opponents ended the tournament 2nd and 10th Overall. One of them even beat Grant Theft Auto's seer council Deldar. On Day #2, 2 of my opponents ended the tourney 13th and 14th overall.

1 of my opponents even beat 3 GT winners - me, Adam (Mortetvie) and Dan May (Capt Dees)!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

jifel wrote:
Congrats to all of the Nid players at the BAO. Even if the dice decided against you, there was plenty of excitement, and there was still a good deal of success all around. I really would like to make it to the BAO one of these days...

Now, the problem seems to be dealing with Space Marines. Maybe that's a West Coast thing, because I don't really see Marines as *that* big of a threat. How exactly are they Alpha-striking Tyranids? FMCs near a Venom Bastion can jink for an easy 2++ cover save, and then we just throw all of our DTW dice at the ignores cover power if they have it. With a bit of positioning it also isn't hard to surround the Bastion in bodies so that no one can land within 6" of it for a Melta shot. Lot's of Objective Secured is, of course, not fun, but we can usually take out Rhinos with ease, and weight of fire usually serves to take out those pesky SMurfs.

What exactly was the winning list?

Winning list was White Scars bikers with Imperial Knight ally.

The problem is - and this is more pertaining to my games - drop podding meltas against the bastion in Dawn of War deployment. Yes, that happened both times to me against 2 drop pod marine armies. Both were in DoW deployment where it was hard to fully insulate my bastion with bubble-wrapping and both were with my opponents going 1st. Moreover, my 2nd drop pod opponent had tanks that ignored cover, including one that fired D3+1 S8 AP3 cover-ignoring barrages. And both players tried to take out my bastion (they didn't succeed on Turn 1 but did so on Turn 2 before I could use my Comms Relay for my reserves). However, even with 2+ cover, in each game my opponent was able to take out a flyrant on Turn 1 (actually, in 3 of my games against marines). So in essence, I had to take out his troops with already a large handicap (less 1 flyrant). To add insult to injury, when I did get into assault, I was doing piss-poor. In one of my games, one of my flyrants was tied up all game by combat squads because I sucked so hard in close combat. Lol.

Then again, part of it may have been my lack of experience as well. I actually haven't played my nids all that much in this edition yet (only 2 games before the tournament, of which 1 was skyblight). I also haven't played against Drop pod marines in this edition yet either.

**L0rdF1end**

Nice work Jim and better luck next time with a few more pre tournament games under your belt, who knows, you could be right up there. Like you say, that game 5 was very close.

I'm interested if you are considering any changes to the current Sky blight list you are running now considering you have probably a better understanding of current meta?

I'm also running Sky blight and my current fear is 3 Wraith Knights which I think we'll perhaps start to see more of.

**omerakk**

sometimes the dices just want otherwise

Even if the dice decided against you

Is it really fair to say it was all because of the dice causing the game to go on?
The odds weren't really broken; more often than not, the game lasts beyond turn 5.

**L0rdF1end**

omerakk wrote:
sometimes the dices just want otherwise

Even if the dice decided against you

Is it really fair to say it was all because of the dice causing the game to go on?
The odds weren't really broken; more often than not, the game lasts beyond turn 5.

It's quite rare for a competitive game to go all the way to 7, most games end turn 5 due to time restrictions.

**omerakk**

L0rdF1end wrote:
omerakk wrote:
sometimes the dices just want otherwise

Even if the dice decided against you

Is it really fair to say it was all because of the dice causing the game to go on?
The odds weren't really broken; more often than not, the game lasts beyond turn 5.

It's quite rare for a competitive game to go all the way to 7, most games end turn 5 due to time restrictions.

Oh I agree 100%, but when there is time for more rounds, more often than not, the dice will tell you to keep playing,
People were acting like the dice causing round 6 and 7 was rare.

**rigeld2**

You have a 33% chance of seeing turn 7. While not rare, it's nothing to be counted on.
edit: (66% chance of turn 6, and then half of the turn 6's will see turn 7)

**pinecone77**

jy2 wrote:

BAY AREA OPEN (BAO) GT TYRANID NEWSFLASH - PART II

Sorry guys, but I blew it. I'm sorry to say that I was close, but I just couldn't get it done.

But first of all, with regards to Matt Evan's Dimachaeron Tyranids, I made a mistake. Matt was 2nd overall after Day #1 with his bugs.

http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/post/802266

That is his Dimachaeron above. Sorry I didn't take a picture at the tournament, but I was too darn busy and didn't have time.

Also, while he brought his converted Dimachaeron, he didn't actually run it in the tournament. He only brought it there for show. So no Dimey in competitive play just yet.

Ok, now on to my update.

Second of all, I just wanted to say this. Space Marines are sooooo good in this edition. I faced 4 Space Marine-type armies and they were all tough, tough battles. With the exception of 1 of those games, I was behind in 3 of those games almost the entire time. Moreover, marines dominated at the BAO. 5 of the top 10 and 9 of the top 20 were Space Marines. Folks, if you want to do well at a tournament, make sure you can handle massive amounts of Objective Secured troops in ObSec transports as well. One of the Marine players I played against ended the tournament 2nd Overall. Another two ended 10th and 13th. Finally, the last opponent, actually Grey Knight with Marines allies, ended the tournament 14th. Wow! Just wow!

So after Day #1, I was pretty stoked but I knew Day #2 would be the real test.

Round 4 - I was supposed to face Eldar but my opponent didn't show up (he came in 1 hour late). Thus, I was paired with whoever else didn't have an opponent. He ran Astra Militarum and he was actually last place at that point. Well, better to play someone than to get the forfeiture win. I got Master of Ambush, went first and needless to say, I won this one quite easily.

At those point, both Geoff and Matt lost and so I am #1 Tyranid player at the moment.

Round 5 - At this point, I was #5 overall. I played against Grey Knights with Space Marine allies and he ran the Centurionstar. It was probably the meanest Centstar I ever saw! He had almost everything on his star - Invisibility, Gate of Infinity, Precognition, Prescience, Forewarning, etc. - and he went 1st! I was basically getting my ass kicked the entire game. However, through sheer tactical play, I would have won the game had it ended on 5. No, it went on. Turn 6 I needed my gargoyles to recycle and indeed they did, moving onto an objective. Would have won had the game ended on 6. And then it went to 7. F*ck!!! Despite getting shellacked for most of the game, it was one that I should have won and thoroughly out-played my opponent. But it just wasn't meant to be. He took Primary (by just 2 Heavy Supports in Big Guns) and I took Secondary in a very tense and exciting game.

Both Geoff and Matt lose once again and so I am still top bug player.

Round 6 - So I drop down to around 15-16th. I go up against another Space Marine player, running Salamander Space Marines in 5 drop pods and with 3 Forgeworld tanks (the Relic tanks and a LR Achilles). Let me tell you, those tanks were wicked sick. One of them was a Relic Predator Annihilator with AV13 all around and a gun where you couldn't jink against. The other was an Relic Whirlwind with AV13 that fired D3+1 S8 AP3 barrage blasts. But get this, it ignores cover! Damnnnnnn.

Once again, he went 1st against me (in every single game against Marines, they went 1st) and it was a struggle for me. I was way behind all game, but on the last turn, I almost pulled it off! Once again, I outplayed my opponent and almost grasped victory from the jaws of defeat. He had both Primary and Secondary, but I managed to steal Primary away from him on the last turn. However, I needed to kill off just 2 marines claiming Linebreaker from me but just couldn't do it. Despite getting my a$$ kicked all game once again, I almost had another upset win and lost a very close game by just 1-pt, 6-5.

Geoff was able to win his last game to pull ahead of me to take Best Tyranids. I ended up 2nd best bugs.

But man, had I won Game #5 - a game that I should have won - I might have been playing for the Championships or at least Top 4. Sigh.....

Oh well, another time. Thanks for reading.

Dude! you did awesome!

Yeah, with the nerf to Shadow, GKs are a hard foe..

Sounds like it was fun, and Nids showed themselves to be competitive.

**Ian Sturrock**

Great mini-batreps there jy2, thanks for that. It's always helpful to get an idea of what the top lists and players are up to.

**Zach**

Iechine wrote:
xttz wrote:

http://i.imgur.com/T6qgdzD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OExyDqv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PLFksli.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iZVU1Wo.jpg

I know it hasnt changed much, but could you post the Hierophant's page as well? It would basically save me dropping the cash on the book just to have official rules for 1 model.

Just throwing that one out there again.

**SHUPPET**

omerakk wrote:
L0rdF1end wrote:
omerakk wrote:
sometimes the dices just want otherwise

Even if the dice decided against you

Is it really fair to say it was all because of the dice causing the game to go on?
The odds weren't really broken; more often than not, the game lasts beyond turn 5.

It's quite rare for a competitive game to go all the way to 7, most games end turn 5 due to time restrictions.

Oh I agree 100%, but when there is time for more rounds, more often than not, the dice will tell you to keep playing,
People were acting like the dice causing round 6 and 7 was rare.

Meh, in round 4 his opponent got delayed meaning instead of getting matched against a top tier Eldar player got a game against the player at the bottom of the ladder. It's not really fair to blame luck at all considered it contributed to him even getting to that point.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

coredump wrote:
CKO wrote:
Last time saying this the DIME ROCKS!!!

Damn, I knew the Nids were good but I didnt see others using them at GTs this soon! I am expecting first place from the nids I want nothing but barren rocks left!

SHUPPET wrote:
[
3/6, 1 of which was a luck match up against the player at the very bottom of the ladder, the other 2 in the early rounds where the pairings aren't yet based on skill level. It looks like every game against a higher level opponent was a loss, pretty much what I expected from Dima lists unfortunately.
.

Lots of conclusions to draw from just one army....at just one event.... that didn't even use the Dimathingy...

.

A.) my post isn't drawing any conclusions about anything, merely speculating as to why events played out the way they did based off the hard info I DID have. In no way was a conclusion made, at best a mistake. B according to jy2 at the time there was a Dima, which we now know to be his mistake not ours. And C the first guy you quoted may hav e been jumping to conclusions, but if those two statements he made were seperates for a reason than he didn't, and you've just jumped to a conclusion in reading his post

Also, is it necessary to be so condescending with every post? Why not contribute to the strategy or discussion at hand a little more, instead of just butting in here and there to call peoples opinions bias or saying we need glasses or making posts like this..

**Zach**

Finished my two Carnifexes, up to 5 in total. Let the tourney practice begin!

**Dozer Blades**

Devilfexen are going to be huge !!!

**SHUPPET**

jy2 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

jifel wrote:
Congrats to all of the Nid players at the BAO. Even if the dice decided against you, there was plenty of excitement, and there was still a good deal of success all around. I really would like to make it to the BAO one of these days...

Now, the problem seems to be dealing with Space Marines. Maybe that's a West Coast thing, because I don't really see Marines as *that* big of a threat. How exactly are they Alpha-striking Tyranids? FMCs near a Venom Bastion can jink for an easy 2++ cover save, and then we just throw all of our DTW dice at the ignores cover power if they have it. With a bit of positioning it also isn't hard to surround the Bastion in bodies so that no one can land within 6" of it for a Melta shot. Lot's of Objective Secured is, of course, not fun, but we can usually take out Rhinos with ease, and weight of fire usually serves to take out those pesky SMurfs.

What exactly was the winning list?

Winning list was White Scars bikers with Imperial Knight ally.

The problem is - and this is more pertaining to my games - drop podding meltas against the bastion in Dawn of War deployment. Yes, that happened both times to me against 2 drop pod marine armies. Both were in DoW deployment where it was hard to fully insulate my bastion with bubble-wrapping and both were with my opponents going 1st. Moreover, my 2nd drop pod opponent had tanks that ignored cover, including one that fired D3+1 S8 AP3 cover-ignoring barrages. And both players tried to take out my bastion (they didn't succeed on Turn 1 but did so on Turn 2 before I could use my Comms Relay for my reserves). However, even with 2+ cover, in each game my opponent was able to take out a flyrant on Turn 1 (actually, in 3 of my games against marines). So in essence, I had to take out his troops with already a large handicap (less 1 flyrant). To add insult to injury, when I did get into assault, I was doing piss-poor. In one of my games, one of my flyrants was tied up all game by combat squads because I sucked so hard in close combat. Lol.

Then again, part of it may have been my lack of experience as well. I actually haven't played my nids all that much in this edition yet (only 2 games before the tournament, of which 1 was skyblight). I also haven't played against Drop pod marines in this edition yet either.

**Zach**

I hope so. With the new sexy Malanthrope, it looks like Ill be using

Flyrant w/Devourers and Electro
Flyrant w/Devourers and Electro
Malanthrope
Malanthrope
Ripper w/DS
Ripper w/DS
Carnifex w/Adrenal and Devourers
Carnifex w/Adrenal and Devourers
Flyrant w/Devourers and Electro
Ripper
Ripper w/DS
Carnifex w/Adrenal and Devourers
Carnifex w/Devourers
Mawloc

I hate having the odd men out as it tweaks my symmetry, but I think the benefits of the two malanthropes will more than make up for it.

**tag8833**

SHUPPET wrote:
In my opinion, it's probably a combination of your list being heavily reliant on Venombastion, and the fact that you have only had one game against them so far ever. I actually find that Tyranids are one of the worst match ups drop pod Marines can roll - allowing our entire army to shoot and often charge turn 1, completely mitigating our natural range disadvantage, with the fact that a lot of our bodies are T6 W6 +3 often chiming in to mitigate their alpha that they rely on so heavily (IE durability, but also do say 4 T6 wounds and see absolutely no return for it that turn). Play some more games with them and take note of your win ratio against them - I mean you won your match up anyway right?

That being said, a lot of what I just said is much less applicable to your Skyblight, but Living Artillery Nids should literally have no trouble in the fight with Drop Pod marines, although has to be proactive towards ensuring we win on scoring. Should still be the match up most Nids WANT to see.

GravStar on the other hand , no sir ! Lol.

I generally agree that Tyranids pose a rough matchup for drop pod marines. But the key is being able to properly bubble-wrap. Skyblight isn't the best for that especially if you are trying to reserve the Crones and Harpies. Personally, I would try to not reserve anything if facing drop pod marines. You'd alot rather lose a Harpy than a Flyrant. I can't remember the last time I lost a flyrant to Drop Pod alpha strike. I lose carnifexes, Exocrines, Crones, Tervigons, even the occasional Tyrannofex, but I always deploy so that Flyrants are the best bubble wrapped, and the hardest to alpha strike.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
That is my measure for how many Flyrants are too many. If I can't properly bubblewrap them against drop pods, then I need fewer flyrants, and more other things.

**jifel**

Even though I'm a big fan of Deep Striking Rippers, I keep one unit of gants in my list for the sole purpose of dealing with Drop Pods. DP armies aren't very common here, but I can still bubble wrap my Bastion so that every bug in my army has a 2++ cover save except for a few gants. I don't recall jy2s exact list, but I would think that the Gargoyles could have been able to bubble wrap the Bastion. Against Drop Pods in Dawn of War, I will happily put my bastion all the way in the back of my DZ so I can properly block it off. After all, if they go first than I can assault any of their units that get close to my base...

However, I think that Skyblight is too many FMCs actually. For me, 4-5 is a magic number. The only lists I have written with Skyblight are just to include a third Flyrant. Other than that, I don't like paying a Harpy and Gargoyle tax. Note that in my area we play pretty much 0% Maelstrom missions, I can see them being a ton more valuable in that, but 10 gargoyles will be killed easily late in the game and coming back will have little impact. I'll be sticking with normal CAD full of FMCs, but I may add some Forge World fun!

**luke1705**

jifel wrote:
Even though I'm a big fan of Deep Striking Rippers, I keep one unit of gants in my list for the sole purpose of dealing with Drop Pods. DP armies aren't very common here, but I can still bubble wrap my Bastion so that every bug in my army has a 2++ cover save except for a few gants. I don't recall jy2s exact list, but I would think that the Gargoyles could have been able to bubble wrap the Bastion. Against Drop Pods in Dawn of War, I will happily put my bastion all the way in the back of my DZ so I can properly block it off. After all, if they go first than I can assault any of their units that get close to my base...

However, I think that Skyblight is too many FMCs actually. For me, 4-5 is a magic number. The only lists I have written with Skyblight are just to include a third Flyrant. Other than that, I don't like paying a Harpy and Gargoyle tax. Note that in my area we play pretty much 0% Maelstrom missions, I can see them being a ton more valuable in that, but 10 gargoyles will be killed easily late in the game and coming back will have little impact. I'll be sticking with normal CAD full of FMCs, but I may add some Forge World fun!

Do you play that the MCs get intervening unit cover from Gants? I haven't checked to see if they need to be 25% obscured under 7th edition.

**jifel**

@luke: I did in 6th, but it hasn't come up in 7th at all, I'd have to check the wording. But, I buy barricades for my Bastion so I know the tyrants will have cover turn 1, after that they're too far ahead to ever get gant cover, and I usually rely on ruins/forests for cover

**Spoletta**

luke1705 wrote:
jifel wrote:
Even though I'm a big fan of Deep Striking Rippers, I keep one unit of gants in my list for the sole purpose of dealing with Drop Pods. DP armies aren't very common here, but I can still bubble wrap my Bastion so that every bug in my army has a 2++ cover save except for a few gants. I don't recall jy2s exact list, but I would think that the Gargoyles could have been able to bubble wrap the Bastion. Against Drop Pods in Dawn of War, I will happily put my bastion all the way in the back of my DZ so I can properly block it off. After all, if they go first than I can assault any of their units that get close to my base...

However, I think that Skyblight is too many FMCs actually. For me, 4-5 is a magic number. The only lists I have written with Skyblight are just to include a third Flyrant. Other than that, I don't like paying a Harpy and Gargoyle tax. Note that in my area we play pretty much 0% Maelstrom missions, I can see them being a ton more valuable in that, but 10 gargoyles will be killed easily late in the game and coming back will have little impact. I'll be sticking with normal CAD full of FMCs, but I may add some Forge World fun!

Do you play that the MCs get intervening unit cover from Gants? I haven't checked to see if they need to be 25% obscured under 7th edition.

The wording says that the 25% is not needed, if you are even partially obscured then you are in cover. That said there is that note on it not working if the shot goes "over" it. How do you read this? You can't cover flyers? Can't cover from flyers? If the model is even slightly higher than the intervening one then no cover?

**xttz**

Iechine wrote:
Iechine wrote:
xttz wrote:

http://i.imgur.com/T6qgdzD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OExyDqv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PLFksli.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iZVU1Wo.jpg

I know it hasnt changed much, but could you post the Hierophant's page as well? It would basically save me dropping the cash on the book just to have official rules for 1 model.

Just throwing that one out there again.

I don't have the book, the pics came from 4chan

edit: but someone just reposted them! http://i.imgur.com/qUBiF37.jpg

**Zach**

xttz wrote:
Iechine wrote:
Iechine wrote:
xttz wrote:

http://i.imgur.com/T6qgdzD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OExyDqv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PLFksli.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iZVU1Wo.jpg

I know it hasnt changed much, but could you post the Hierophant's page as well? It would basically save me dropping the cash on the book just to have official rules for 1 model.

Just throwing that one out there again.

I don't have the book, the pics came from 4chan

edit: but someone just reposted them! http://i.imgur.com/qUBiF37.jpg

Thanks dude, jiffel was awesome enough to send them as well. Im just not willing to buy a book THAT expensive for a single page of rules for an expensive model that I may or may not have gotten from China.

**xttz**

Iechine wrote:

Thanks dude, jiffel was awesome enough to send them as well. Im just not willing to buy a book THAT expensive for a single page of rules for an expensive model that I may or may not have gotten from China.

I know what you mean... I now have a Harridan and Malanthrope brood en route. I won't say where from, but the ETA is a few weeks :-)

**SHUPPET**

GW skyrockets it's prices, but as always the Hive fleets have adapted

**luke1705**

Spoletta wrote:
luke1705 wrote:
jifel wrote:
Even though I'm a big fan of Deep Striking Rippers, I keep one unit of gants in my list for the sole purpose of dealing with Drop Pods. DP armies aren't very common here, but I can still bubble wrap my Bastion so that every bug in my army has a 2++ cover save except for a few gants. I don't recall jy2s exact list, but I would think that the Gargoyles could have been able to bubble wrap the Bastion. Against Drop Pods in Dawn of War, I will happily put my bastion all the way in the back of my DZ so I can properly block it off. After all, if they go first than I can assault any of their units that get close to my base...

However, I think that Skyblight is too many FMCs actually. For me, 4-5 is a magic number. The only lists I have written with Skyblight are just to include a third Flyrant. Other than that, I don't like paying a Harpy and Gargoyle tax. Note that in my area we play pretty much 0% Maelstrom missions, I can see them being a ton more valuable in that, but 10 gargoyles will be killed easily late in the game and coming back will have little impact. I'll be sticking with normal CAD full of FMCs, but I may add some Forge World fun!

Do you play that the MCs get intervening unit cover from Gants? I haven't checked to see if they need to be 25% obscured under 7th edition.

The wording says that the 25% is not needed, if you are even partially obscured then you are in cover. That said there is that note on it not working if the shot goes "over" it. How do you read this? You can't cover flyers? Can't cover from flyers? If the model is even slightly higher than the intervening one then no cover?

My thinking on this is that if you can draw LOS to the lowest point of the target model (the entire bottom of the base) without the model being obscured by any intervening unit (or the spaces in between models in a unit of course) then there is no cover. A situation like this could occur if the firer is on the second or third level of ruins and the target model is a sufficient distance behind the screening unit. Otherwise I think you get it. In that event, I really think the Malanthrope is going to be a stud. Giving our entire army except the worthless screening unit 3+ cover is pretty dope

**N.I.B.**

jifel wrote:
@luke: I did in 6th, but it hasn't come up in 7th at all, I'd have to check the wording.

The wording hasn't changed at all. You still get a cover save if a toe nail is obscured.

**Dozer Blades**

I'm curious as to which page that appears. It's been awhile since I read it. While I love my Tyranids I find that a very abusive misapplication of the rules for an unfair advantage as it seems the rules for area terrain have been greatly streamlined.

Anyways now that the BAO has debunked the current Tyranid meta I think we can go back to the drawing board for a fresh look... Exciting !