Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Out of curiosity, what's the sudden craze with rippers? For the longest time they were considered gak compared to 'gaunts.

Gaining Objective secured and to a lesser extent maelstrom missions benefiting from DS'ing troops.

BTW, here is an update to my dimachaeron. I've added arms!!! Other than that, not much else yet. Lol.

tag8833 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing your experiences and comparisons after trying out a list like mine (with the quad-flyrants).

I can't go quad (only have 3 flyrants). But I'll do double combined arms 3 Flyrants 2 Crones. Something like this:

Spoiler:

Tyrant (Wings, E. Grubs, 2 TL-Devourers)
Tyrant (Wings, E. Grubs, 2 TL-Devourers)
Tyrant (Wings, E. Grubs, 2 TL-Devourers)

Malanthrope
Malanthrope

16 HGaunts
16 HGaunts
3 Rippers (Deep strike)
3 Rippers (Deep strike)

Crone
Crone
Dima
Dima

I think it will be a fair test of your proposed Dima usage. It would probably have beat the Space Wolves and their complete lack of AA, but I'll run it against Wave Serpents or something.

No worries about the flyrants. 3 is actually plenty against all but the most extreme of armies.

My only recommendation is that I probably wouldn't take 2 crones. They are no longer the threat that they used to be, both in shooting and assault. I'd recommend swapping one out for gargoyles or a dakkafex or a mawloc. Just 1 crone is good enough as a distraction unit, because they are pretty much going to be ignored by most experienced opponents unless your opponent is running infantry with 4+ saves or worse.

SBG wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

You're a little light on synapse in the middle. Also, if you are running a walkrant, then I recommend 1 or 2 tyrant guards.

Yeah, I'd recommend dropping 1 dakkafex for more support. Perhaps 1-2 tyrant guards and 1-2 zoanthropes. Maybe even another venomthrope if you have one. You don't need 3 single zoans. That is perhaps slightly overkill.

Also, if you can, convert your walkrant into a flyrant. That is really the best upgrade you can do.

Good call - I think that losing a Dakkafex for 1 Tyrant Guard and two lone Zoanthropes is worthwhile, and that also means less painting... Everyone wins! Thanks Jim. I've been eyeing up a Flyrant kit, I'll put more thought into it. Having 4 walkrants has discouraged me until now...

Looks like a winner. Good luck!

 Iechine wrote:
Ive got a tourny practice game on Thursday against a tailored Dark Eldar list so I can fight a hard counter to my list. Double CAD and FW allowed. Im going to try what everyone has suggested with my list and drop some AG's for a ten termagant screen.

Flyrant w/devs electro
Flyrant w/devs electro
Flyrant w/devs electro
Flyrant w/devs electro

Malanthrope
Ripper brood w/ds
Ripper brood w/ds
Ripper brood w/ds
Ripper brood
Termagant x 10

Carnifex w/devs
Carnifex w/devs
Carnifex w/devs
Mawloc

Im expecting a pretty much all bike and venom list, but I know he isnt taking a knight or eldar ally. This list is not likely to be encountered at an event like Mechanicon, but its also a traditional tough matchup and Im not sure that Ive ever take on DE and won.

You'll do fine. The meta has shifted and DE are no longer the hard-counter to our bugs like they used to be. As a matter of fact, nowadays, they will struggle against the likes of our flyrants. 4 flyrants would actually be overkill against them.

One thing to keep in mind is this. If your opponent prioritizes his targets properly, your malanthrope would probably die early. In this battle, your flyrants will be your all-stars and they are the ones who will win you the game.

Also, beware of DE vehicles with Night Shields. They basically subtract 6" from your shooting range, meaning devourers will only have 12" range against them. That means your dakkafexes will be impotent initially and you will really have to rely on your flyrants to do the killings. Make sure to take out his venoms first if he is running venom-spam. That is a double-whammy for him. First of all, it takes out a vehicle with 12 poisoned shots. Secondly, it takes out an Objective Secured transport. As long as your malanthrope is alive, dark lances won't do much so forget about the ravagers and focus on taking out any and all venoms.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Gray1378 wrote:
That looks like a nasty list. Lots of armies would have a hard time dealing with 4 flyrants lol.

I personally believe that Flyrants are the workhorse of our entire codex. They're durable, come with psychic powers, provide synapse, have good solid shooting and still pose a threat to smaller units in melee.

To top it off the MoA warlord trait works nicely with them too, especially if you get first turn - infiltrate your flyrants. Turn 1 - fly forward at full speed. If your opponent has even deployed slightly forward then it's rear armour for everyone!

Did that to an IG Leman Russ heavy list a few weeks ago. He was not impressed by two flyrants disposing of three tanks in turn 1 (His basilisk and his two punishers. Oops.)

Sometimes, it just isn't fair if shooty armies get MoA and they go 1st. You think heavy armor will save you? Guess again and eat some of my electroshock grubs while you're at it! Lol.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Out of curiosity, what's the sudden craze with rippers? For the longest time they were considered gak compared to 'gaunts.

 Iechine wrote:
Gaining Objective secured and to a lesser extent maelstrom missions benefiting from DS'ing troops.

Right. What Iechine said.

In addition, rippers give you a lot of flexibility, which is the real reason why I take them. With gants, you know where they will be....either in your deployment zone or coming in from it. With rippers, you have the flexibility to come in anywhere (and with an ObSec unit) to contest/claim an objective right away. With gants, good luck getting them to your opponent's objectives or to his backfield. This is particularly useful in Maelstrom objectives.

Finally, rippers have the advantage of not needing Synapse as much as the other Tyranid gribblies. Shoot down my synapse and my rippers can still function. However, with gants, they have a good chance to run away.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Out of curiosity, what's the sudden craze with rippers? For the longest time they were considered gak compared to 'gaunts.

Objective Secured
Deep Striking
Fearless - so less need of a synapse babysitter
Smaller profile so easier to get in cover.
Swarms - so ignore difficult terrain completely. (MTC is nice on termagants but ignoring it altogether helps too)

Of course there's downsides...Feed being one of them and in a game where the previous meta was a flood of multi shot S6+ weapons (and still is for the most part) being T3 and IDable is another.

Really, it's more the fact they became super scoring.

Fearless, multiple wounds, multiple attacks and able to get decent cover saves or LOS blocking for their profile - stick them on an objective and good luck getting them off!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jy2 wrote:

Sometimes, it just isn't fair if shooty armies get MoA and they go 1st. You think heavy armor will save you? Guess again and eat some of my electroshock grubs while you're at it! Lol.

Best bit was the guy was one of the ones from the Manchester lot who came across for the charity tournament. His exact words were 'Hey, how come our Tyranid players don't do this and complain their army sucks?'

Turns out the Manchester Tyranid meta was still on assault gribblies. I gave them some pointers to give to the guy after they got back so he would stop complaining his army sucks! (And yes, this included - Trygons and Raveners are terrible. I only have them here because I wanted to field a fully painted army!)

Seriously, I don't think Tyranids came out that bad. I'll admit that we have some right stinkers in our codex and from Forge World but we also have some real gems.

Unfortunately we came out just after the power spike of Tau-Eldar - you know, that point where someone hauls in the rules writing department and says 'Hey, guys, this gak is broken, tone it down'.

We still do well - we shine in missions where we can force the enemy to come to us (go go Maelstrom!), we have a potent formation still in Skyblight - sadly a lot of our other formations lose some of their punch with Objective Secured (if only Manufactorum Stealers or Endless Swarm had OS...)

 jy2 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing your experiences and comparisons after trying out a list like mine (with the quad-flyrants).

I can't go quad (only have 3 flyrants). But I'll do double combined arms 3 Flyrants 2 Crones. Something like this:

Spoiler:

Tyrant (Wings, E. Grubs, 2 TL-Devourers)
Tyrant (Wings, E. Grubs, 2 TL-Devourers)
Tyrant (Wings, E. Grubs, 2 TL-Devourers)

Malanthrope
Malanthrope

16 HGaunts
16 HGaunts
3 Rippers (Deep strike)
3 Rippers (Deep strike)

Crone
Crone
Dima
Dima

I think it will be a fair test of your proposed Dima usage. It would probably have beat the Space Wolves and their complete lack of AA, but I'll run it against Wave Serpents or something.

No worries about the flyrants. 3 is actually plenty against all but the most extreme of armies.

My only recommendation is that I probably wouldn't take 2 crones. They are no longer the threat that they used to be, both in shooting and assault. I'd recommend swapping one out for gargoyles or a dakkafex or a mawloc. Just 1 crone is good enough as a distraction unit, because they are pretty much going to be ignored by most experienced opponents unless your opponent is running infantry with 4+ saves or worse.

Crones are useful against mech as well. And they can keep up with flyrants better than Dakkafexes, and are more survivable. I was worried that dropping a Crone for a Dakkafex would turn this into an army that threatened in waves. Turn one: Flyrants. Turn two: Dakkafex. Turn three: Dima, and thus my opponent's target priority is simplified.

At some point I'm going to run the Dima against Drop Pod marines and show what they are really capable of. But I've been beating up on the best Drop Pod player I know for the last 6-7 games so I've got to tank one against him (Hive Guard and Lictors) or else he won't feel good about playing me. A similar situation with the Best Ork player I know. My plan there is to run flying circus, but let him know ahead of time and he can bring out the Tractor guns.

Dima will do well against drop pods or worst case scenario just be a slightly expensive target for the alpha but no massive loss, and will make up for it in potential to cause rek.

But as you said, drop pods are an ideal match up for Nids anyway, just like the other match ups Dima will perform well in like Orks, n Assaulty marines of any variant (BA, CSM bike blob, Etc.) as well as anything close range focused at all really, Nids play the best against them. I actually think Orks are more balanced and one of the best match ups in the game.

Speaking of excellent match ups, how many people have experienced the Nid vs Nid mirror match? My word this is a good fun & fair match up and almost everything in the codex is playable in it (maybe not Trygon Swarmlord or Pyrovore, but everything else lol). Far better match up than many of the other mirror matches I can think of, Tau, Eldar, guard, power armour, Crons, these ones all pretty streamlined when VS'ing themselves IMO, there are some other good ones (Orks, daemons, Dark Eldar) but I think for the most part Nid vs Nid is one of the most internally balanced and dynamic match ups possible with their being no clear best pick models in this match up with different opposing lists giving wind to different units of your own choosing, and the nature of the match up breathing life into many different units. All this aside I still think Orks vs Nids is all this and MORE, but I think the fact that Nids does this in the mirror match is pretty awesome.

 Iechine wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Iechine wrote:

Looks like your dima is hunched over just slightly? The model I saw (my friend InControl already has one) was just slightly shorter than the wraithknight, but it seems as if his was modeled standing a little more upright.

Should have clarified, thats not my photo, but from a google search. I would never own such a hideous bass guitar.

Lol. Should've known that those weren't your color schemes.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

Sometimes, it just isn't fair if shooty armies get MoA and they go 1st. You think heavy armor will save you? Guess again and eat some of my electroshock grubs while you're at it! Lol.

Best bit was the guy was one of the ones from the Manchester lot who came across for the charity tournament. His exact words were 'Hey, how come our Tyranid players don't do this and complain their army sucks?'

Turns out the Manchester Tyranid meta was still on assault gribblies. I gave them some pointers to give to the guy after they got back so he would stop complaining his army sucks! (And yes, this included - Trygons and Raveners are terrible. I only have them here because I wanted to field a fully painted army!)

Seriously, I don't think Tyranids came out that bad. I'll admit that we have some right stinkers in our codex and from Forge World but we also have some real gems.

Unfortunately we came out just after the power spike of Tau-Eldar - you know, that point where someone hauls in the rules writing department and says 'Hey, guys, this gak is broken, tone it down'.

We still do well - we shine in missions where we can force the enemy to come to us (go go Maelstrom!), we have a potent formation still in Skyblight - sadly a lot of our other formations lose some of their punch with Objective Secured (if only Manufactorum Stealers or Endless Swarm had OS...)

Awesome! Glad you could spread the gospel to some down-and-out bug player. The Hive Mind reaches out to its own and they either evolve or get re-assimilated back into the Tyranid genetic pool.

tag8833 wrote:

Crones are useful against mech as well. And they can keep up with flyrants better than Dakkafexes, and are more survivable. I was worried that dropping a Crone for a Dakkafex would turn this into an army that threatened in waves. Turn one: Flyrants. Turn two: Dakkafex. Turn three: Dima, and thus my opponent's target priority is simplified.

At some point I'm going to run the Dima against Drop Pod marines and show what they are really capable of. But I've been beating up on the best Drop Pod player I know for the last 6-7 games so I've got to tank one against him (Hive Guard and Lictors) or else he won't feel good about playing me. A similar situation with the Best Ork player I know. My plan there is to run flying circus, but let him know ahead of time and he can bring out the Tractor guns.

Fair enough.

Good luck!

 SHUPPET wrote:
Dima will do well against drop pods or worst case scenario just be a slightly expensive target for the alpha but no massive loss, and will make up for it in potential to cause rek.

But as you said, drop pods are an ideal match up for Nids anyway, just like the other match ups Dima will perform well in like Orks, n Assaulty marines of any variant (BA, CSM bike blob, Etc.) as well as anything close range focused at all really, Nids play the best against them. I actually think Orks are more balanced and one of the best match ups in the game.

Speaking of excellent match ups, how many people have experienced the Nid vs Nid mirror match? My word this is a good fun & fair match up and almost everything in the codex is playable in it (maybe not Trygon Swarmlord or Pyrovore, but everything else lol). Far better match up than many of the other mirror matches I can think of, Tau, Eldar, guard, power armour, Crons, these ones all pretty streamlined when VS'ing themselves IMO, there are some other good ones (Orks, daemons, Dark Eldar) but I think for the most part Nid vs Nid is one of the most internally balanced and dynamic match ups possible with their being no clear best pick models in this match up with different opposing lists giving wind to different units of your own choosing, and the nature of the match up breathing life into many different units. All this aside I still think Orks vs Nids is all this and MORE, but I think the fact that Nids does this in the mirror match is pretty awesome.

That's actually a good idea. Honestly, I haven't really played against another bug player with my bugs ever since the new bug codex came out in 6E.

I should get a game in against Geoff "InControl" Robinson of Team Zero Comp. He beat me out for Best Tyranid player at the BAO just recently. I think I should return the favor. Triple flyrants vs triple flyrants. His actual dima versus my converted dima. I think it's going to be quite fun!





Automatically Appended Next Post:


I just had an ephiphany. For my next battle (against Frankie and his thunderwolves of Frontline Gaming), I am going to try out this list at 1850 (with self-allying allowed but no double-CAD):


1850 Hive Fleet Pandora

Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs

Malanthrope

3x Rippers - DS
3x Rippers - DS

Dima
Dima
25x Gargoyles

Mawloc

Bastion

Allies:

Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs

3x Rippers

25x Gargoyles


Gargoyles are fast enough that they are a threat to pin down units, thus allowing the dimas to try to make it into combat. And with 5+ shrouded cover even in the open (or 3+ cover behind my flyrants), gargoyles can be quite sturdy also.

Now the only thing I need to do is to try to convert another Dima. Hopefully I can find more action figures in storage. Lol.

 jy2 wrote:
Gargoyles are fast enough that they are a threat to pin down units, thus allowing the dimas to try to make it into combat. And with 5+ shrouded cover even in the open (or 3+ cover behind my flyrants), gargoyles can be quite sturdy also.

Gargoyles are outstanding. Great screening unit to keep MC's alive. Great tarpit thanks to blind, and their speed. They can also be fast / Maneuverable enough to put the 1st couple in cover, and conga line the back one or two to get shrouded from a venom / Malan. They are a force-multiplier because not only do the increase the survivability of the rest of your army by screening them but they can also further increase it by charging things that threaten them (like a command squad with plasma, or a Wraith Knight, or a Riptide).

Next to Flyrants, Gargoyles have won me more games than any other unit. A group of 20 are in nearly all of my lists.

What's up guys, loving this thread so far. I have an 1850 double cad tournament next week, this is my list so far. I have 60 points left and I am debating on what to add.

My main contenders were more backfield synapse with warriors or zoanthropes, more defense with a Venomthrope, or more offense with a biovore. Thoughts?

Flyrant - Devourers - Egrubs
Flyrant - Devourers - Egrubs
Flyrant - Devourers - Egrubs

10x Termagants
10x Termagants
10x Termagants

3x ripper swarms - DS

Malanthrope

Hive crone

Exocrine
Exocrine

T-Fex - Egrubs

Mawloc

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Seriously, I don't think Tyranids came out that bad. I'll admit that we have some right stinkers in our codex and from Forge World but we also have some real gems.

Unfortunately we came out just after the power spike of Tau-Eldar - you know, that point where someone hauls in the rules writing department and says 'Hey, guys, this gak is broken, tone it down'.

I agree, I've said from the start that we got more powerful. I actually think we are the dark horse of the 40k world, the strongest of all the armies that DONT get classified in that Tau-Eldar-Crons-SM-Guard bracket of play, that has a lot of potential to actually outplay opponents (if you build sensibly). Here's a little summary of 6th ed tourney results: http://www.torrentoffire.com/4789/6th-edition-retrospective-reign-of-the-xenos

Interesting stuff!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That being said however the codex got worse written with the loss of so much synergy and different styles of play, even if the individual power of units increased enough to make up for it

997Turbo wrote:
What's up guys, loving this thread so far. I have an 1850 double cad tournament next week, this is my list so far. I have 60 points left and I am debating on what to add.

My main contenders were more backfield synapse with warriors or zoanthropes, more defense with a Venomthrope, or more offense with a biovore. Thoughts?

Flyrant - Devourers - Egrubs
Flyrant - Devourers - Egrubs
Flyrant - Devourers - Egrubs

10x Termagants
10x Termagants
10x Termagants

3x ripper swarms - DS

Malanthrope

Hive crone

Exocrine
Exocrine

T-Fex - Egrubs

Mawloc

I'd add some Synapse... Easiest is likely a Zoey. With only a Malanthrope keeping things in check in the rear, it's going to be a priority target.

What does anyone think of this list?

Flyrant
Devourer
Electro

Flyrant
Devourer
Electro

Malanthrope

Zoanthrope

Rippers
Deep strike

Rippers
Deep strike

Demachaeron

Hive crone

Mawloc

Mawloc

Loving artillery node
Biovores
Exocrine
Warriors
Barbed strangler

Total pts 1730 - single CAD.

Or swap out the 2 Mawloc's for 2 dakkafexes - total 1750 pts

I really like Mawloc's as they are very good at drawing fire after they've popped up and running two of them sounds very appealing to me...

Thoughts?

 Wilson wrote:
What does anyone think of this list?

Flyrant
Devourer
Electro

Flyrant
Devourer
Electro

Malanthrope

Zoanthrope

Rippers
Deep strike

Rippers
Deep strike

Demachaeron

Hive crone

Mawloc

Mawloc

Loving artillery node
Biovores
Exocrine
Warriors
Barbed strangler

Total pts 1730 - single CAD.

Or swap out the 2 Mawloc's for 2 dakkafexes - total 1750 pts

I really like Mawloc's as they are very good at drawing fire after they've popped up and running two of them sounds very appealing to me...

Thoughts?

Well, I am a big fan of twin Mawlocs. If you swap for Dakkafexen, I think you'd also want to find points for bubble wrap. Mawlocs a least get to try something before they get Melta'd or Grav'd) off the table.

I think you'll be a lot happier if you find points for a Veno to babysit the LAN, otherwise counter battery can be an "issue". Oh, I've said it a few times, but...the Warrior Brood for a LAN gets more "bang" from using a Venom Cannon, no change in points, but you more fully exploit the special rule(s).

Twin-linked makes up for smaller blast as well

Read a lot about how standard Nids list lean towards lots of MCs and FMCs which I can see why... they are great. But then deathstars taking out 2 or 3 a turn just demolish the list.

I'm just starting up Nids and looking to get ideas for a good competitive TAC nids list that can handle the field pretty well. Can anyone provide me with a generic mock up? Or is our codex too limiting?

 syypher wrote:
Read a lot about how standard Nids list lean towards lots of MCs and FMCs which I can see why... they are great. But then deathstars taking out 2 or 3 a turn just demolish the list.

I'm just starting up Nids and looking to get ideas for a good competitive TAC nids list that can handle the field pretty well. Can anyone provide me with a generic mock up? Or is our codex too limiting?

So a basic spine of a list would be
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Duel Devourers, Electrogrubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Duel Devourers, Electrogrubs
(Zoans, Malons or Venoms to flavour)
Troops, Rippers or Termagants.
Fast Attack Gargoyles and Crones
Heavy Dakkafexes and Mawlocs
Formations, I used to be a big fan of Skyblight pre 7th, but now I tend to opt for Living Artillery Node so I can max out my heavy spots on Carnifexes and Mawlocs.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 syypher wrote:
Read a lot about how standard Nids list lean towards lots of MCs and FMCs which I can see why... they are great. But then deathstars taking out 2 or 3 a turn just demolish the list.

I'm just starting up Nids and looking to get ideas for a good competitive TAC nids list that can handle the field pretty well. Can anyone provide me with a generic mock up? Or is our codex too limiting?

So a basic spine of a list would be
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Duel Devourers, Electrogrubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Duel Devourers, Electrogrubs
(Zoans, Malons or Venoms to flavour)
Troops, Rippers or Termagants.
Fast Attack Gargoyles and Crones
Heavy Dakkafexes and Mawlocs
Formations, I used to be a big fan of Skyblight pre 7th, but now I tend to opt for Living Artillery Node so I can max out my heavy spots on Carnifexes and Mawlocs.

Last time I played Nids was late 5th... Mawlocs are good? That's AWESOME! I love the model!

I had a fun casual game yesterday with a simple aim - wear off New Model Syndrome on the new T-fex and Stonecrushers I assembled last week. With that aim, here is my 2000pt Nidzilla list:

Walkrant with Devourers, Hive Commander and 1 guard - Catalyst and Onslaught
30 guants with 10 devourers
Tervigon with ESG - Onslaught
3 venomthropes
2 Wrecker Stonecrushers
T-fex with acid spray and ESG
Bio-blast Node:
Warriors
3 Dakkafex
Another T-fex with acid spray and ESG

I was up against a pretty scary Daemon/CSM list, containing:
Nurgle Daemon Prince, Oblits, Khorne/Nurgle daemons, Soul Grinder and some CSM flyer (Storm Eagle I think)

Things got off to a great start when not only did I roll Catalyst for once, but I re-rolled my warlord trait to get Master of Ambush. Combined with Hive Commander it let me outflank the warlord, both units of troops, the Stonecrushers and T-fex. I went first, but early game was fairly uneventful due to the amount of short-ranged and melee units on the field. A bunch of Khorne hounds and heralds tried to engage my Dakkafexes in the centre of the field, only to be betrayed by the Grimoire. They did succeed in inflicting a few wounds and tying up much of my firepower for a couple of turns, but eventually a T-Fex stepped in to quickly settle things.

All my reinforcements arrived promptly on turn 2. Unfortunately the new guys got mixed up, with the Stonecrushers arriving on the side with the Daemon Prince and Plaguebearers, and the T-Fex sheepishly making an appearance on the side with the Soul Grinder. Luckily I was able to choose the most appropriate side for the rest.
And so began a titanic combat where these two mighty creatures... repeatedly failed to land blows on each other for 3 turns. Seriously, Smash with WS3 sucks. That one attack should at least auto-hit or something. The Soul Grinder was eventually victorious and tried his luck by charging the other T-Fex... only to lose a 3/4hp to ESG overwatch. Still, I'm really not looking forward to fighting another one of those in future.

Fresh from killing both Stonecrushers, the Daemon Prince glided into the centre of the field and heroically failed a 6" charge despite fleet. The cure for this kind of embarrassment is many, many shots from Dakkafexes at close range. After weathering several turns of Obliterator fire with Catalyst, my Hive Tyrant finally dropped with the last roll of turn 5.

At the end of turn 5 I was losing by one on victory points despite having a fair portion of my army intact, but managed to roll a 6th turn. After glancing down the Storm Eagle to earn Big Game Hunter and picking up several cards for objectives I already held, the game ended with me winning 12-11. Aside from the warlord, the dead pile consisted of some guants, the new T-fex and Stonecrushers. New Model Syndrome now cured, Mission success!

 syypher wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 syypher wrote:
Read a lot about how standard Nids list lean towards lots of MCs and FMCs which I can see why... they are great. But then deathstars taking out 2 or 3 a turn just demolish the list.

I'm just starting up Nids and looking to get ideas for a good competitive TAC nids list that can handle the field pretty well. Can anyone provide me with a generic mock up? Or is our codex too limiting?

So a basic spine of a list would be
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Duel Devourers, Electrogrubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Duel Devourers, Electrogrubs
(Zoans, Malons or Venoms to flavour)
Troops, Rippers or Termagants.
Fast Attack Gargoyles and Crones
Heavy Dakkafexes and Mawlocs
Formations, I used to be a big fan of Skyblight pre 7th, but now I tend to opt for Living Artillery Node so I can max out my heavy spots on Carnifexes and Mawlocs.

Last time I played Nids was late 5th... Mawlocs are good? That's AWESOME! I love the model!

Mawlocs are good in the MSU meta. A large AP2 template like that which ignores cover? Deletes small units. Remember with placing objectives it alternates so if you want to force some advantages for your Mawlocs make sure some of the objectives are ground level - strike at the objective, ideally around the same time your Tyrants and Crones get to their line and just swamp them for target priority. Tyrant firepower is impressive, Crones actually fare well against the MSU meta (S6 flamer template!) and if you get the right psychic powers onslaught the Dakkafexes for added swamping

 syypher wrote:


Last time I played Nids was late 5th... Mawlocs are good? That's AWESOME! I love the model!

Well... they are cheaper and better.... I still don't think they are 'good'. Or rather, their potential is niche depending on the opponent army, and their performance is random/unreliable.

IOW, its a gamble unit.
If the opponent has good targets, and you roll well, they can be *awesome*, but otherwise, they can end up pretty 'meh'....

Ahh... I see a lot of lists with 1-2 Gargoyle Broods of 20-30. Why take them? So many lists run like 2 ripper swarms and thats it for their troops lol. Wouldn't it be better to invest the Gargoyles points in Tervigon troop choices? Or is that 5th edition thinking? I don't see many people taking Tervigons anymore...

 syypher wrote:
Ahh... I see a lot of lists with 1-2 Gargoyle Broods of 20-30. Why take them? So many lists run like 2 ripper swarms and thats it for their troops lol. Wouldn't it be better to invest the Gargoyles points in Tervigon troop choices? Or is that 5th edition thinking? I don't see many people taking Tervigons anymore...

Gargoyles are mainly for the screening aspect. Plus a lot of lists tend to run skyblight with smaller broods of objective secured gargoyles. The Tervigon sort of got hit hard for what it does - no shared toxic sacs and glands, harsher result of death and a point increase. He's not terrible but he's a lot of points to put in to a slot that we unfortunately tend to treat as dressing - largely because every other force org slot does more work for us.

 syypher wrote:
Ahh... I see a lot of lists with 1-2 Gargoyle Broods of 20-30. Why take them? So many lists run like 2 ripper swarms and thats it for their troops lol. Wouldn't it be better to invest the Gargoyles points in Tervigon troop choices? Or is that 5th edition thinking? I don't see many people taking Tervigons anymore...

Tervigons went up 30 points, require 70 more points in gants to make troops, no longer grant poison or furious charge to termagants, their spawns no longer assault when they appear, they no longer have catalyst guaranteed and the result of tervigon death on gants is more brutal. All that was in 6ed and they were still ok.

Final nail in the coffin came with 7ed. Now everything scores but troops in certain detachments get objective secured which is very powerful ability and the reason to take troops in 7ed over other stuff. The issue is spawned gants are not technically in a detachment so are ruled by most to not get objective secured. And troop choices without obsec are just not worth it.

coredump wrote:

 syypher wrote:


Last time I played Nids was late 5th... Mawlocs are good? That's AWESOME! I love the model!

Well... they are cheaper and better.... I still don't think they are 'good'. Or rather, their potential is niche depending on the opponent army, and their performance is random/unreliable.

IOW, its a gamble unit.
If the opponent has good targets, and you roll well, they can be *awesome*, but otherwise, they can end up pretty 'meh'....

I second this. They are an MC with great mobility, but their penchant to be scatter and be utterly useless had led me to drift away from them in TAC lists. If I'm facing Tau, Mawlocs are in.

Another common TAC list involves living Artillery:
I think we can all agree that the Dakkaflyrant is the best unit in the codex by a mile, and any list including 2 of those can do ok against many matchups.

Mawloc is great and never wasted points. He really barely even pays for that blast, he's one of the best units in the codex.

I would disagree that Flyrant is one of the best units in the codex. He's the best SYNAPSE unit and most list need 2 (although not all). However he's really expensive and crippling to a build when taking more than the minimum necessary to make it work. I think far too many people rely too much on Flyrants I think 4 is almost a suicide note unless you are running it next to max Crones for an airforce style list.

 syypher wrote:
Read a lot about how standard Nids list lean towards lots of MCs and FMCs which I can see why... they are great. But then deathstars taking out 2 or 3 a turn just demolish the list.

I'm just starting up Nids and looking to get ideas for a good competitive TAC nids list that can handle the field pretty well. Can anyone provide me with a generic mock up? Or is our codex too limiting?

I've posted a list or three over in Army Lists...my most current thoughts are in From the darkness..(?)

The basic template is in my opinion, one or two Winged Tyrants, two or three force multipliers (Elites most likely), 4 or more Troops (opinions vary) and two or three heavys. Formations are considered more or less mandatory for Tourney play....it's not impossible to win without them, but it is dang hard.

HQ: Winged Tyrant, Hive 240
HQ: as above 240

Zoey Brood, x2 100
Zoey Brood, x2, or solo
Veno Brood, x2, or solo

Troops, several, Termagants are very common, I still use Hormagaunts (as screens) and currently several are using Ripper swarms...

Almost any Heavy choice is a good one just taking three "solo" Dakkafexen will win you games.....

Good luck! And welcome to the Hive Mind!

 SHUPPET wrote:
Mawloc is great and never wasted points. He really barely even pays for that blast, he's one of the best units in the codex.

I would disagree that Flyrant is one of the best units in the codex. He's the best SYNAPSE unit and most list need 2 (although not all). However he's really expensive and crippling to a build when taking more than the minimum necessary to make it work. I think far too many people rely too much on Flyrants I think 4 is almost a suicide note unless you are running it next to max Crones for an airforce style list.

Surely you've had a Mawloc who mishapped and died. I find that about 1/3 scatter when the come in (hitting 0-3 models), and are kill in my opponent's next turn before they can do anything.

This is probably a bit atypical, because I mainly use Mawlocs against Tau these days, and Tau can easily kill 3 MC's per shooting phase, they have few models, and like to hug the board edge. I'm betting that Mawlocs only make their points back 1/5 games for me, but they do score points because of their great mobility, and they are a deterrent that alters the way my opponent plays the game, which can be highly useful.

I think of all units in the Tyranid codex, Mawloc's took the biggest nerf from Smash. In 6th, Mawlocs popped as many vehicles as any other unit I fielded. In 7th they need 2 assaults to pop a Rhino.

Oh well it's still 4 MC attacks if it scatters, with hit & run and reburrow, and the cheapest source of T6 3+ Wounds in the dex, I've never once had it not be worth the points except for the rarer unlucky mishaps (which is the same case for everything with deep strike, except Mawloc at least stands to make points back in the process a lot of times).

I've run 3 Flyrants and Synapse aside, cannot say they have been near as consistent as Locs

Mawlocs come in turn 2-3, then have to worry about scatter, are ineffectual against vehicles or anything in ruins. They have no shooting, and cant assault the turn they come in. On their next turn, they have to choose between 4 WS3 attacks, or reburrow to try TftD again.

They used to be an assault threat against vehicles, but now they can't even do that.

 SHUPPET wrote:
I've run 3 Flyrants and Synapse aside, cannot say they have been near as consistent as Locs

i run mawlocks and enjoy them, but i cannot get behind this statement. i have not once ever regretted anything about flyrants other than i couldn't fit more in; i cannot say the same about mawlocks.