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 Sinful Hero wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Can someone tell me the correct method for using Rippers.

They seem like they would be good objective campers with Deep Strike. But wouldn't instinctive behavior screw them over?

Are Spinefists worth it?

They're Fearless so they ignore the Fall Back part. Deep Strike-run into cover is the gist of it.

Isn't there still a chance they will eat themselves?
And am I right in thinking they can't go to ground either?

They can't go to ground, and it's only 3 hits on a 4+, which can be saved. It's usually a negligible threat.

My reading comprehension is off today.

Hey I have a question for y'all. Has anyone been having success with lictors?

I ran the lictor formation: Death leaper and 5 solo lictors recently in a few test games and in a tournament(battle for salvation on the east coast) as come the apocalypse allies with my old dark eldar in their final run before the new codex. And I have to say they were a great success, and has me wondering if anyone has incorporated them into tyranid lists or other weird allied formats.

I love the models and so have been itching to maybe run a pure tyranid army along with the formation, as the new dark eldar codex isnt really inspiring me at the moment.

Are people on this thread (Tag8833, Shuppet) saying that the HVC should tripple to quadruple its damage output before its a decent option? let me guess, you also think this should be a free upgrade right? Sounds a bit greedy to me.
I would be completely satisfied if they were assault2 with a 10pts increase on the upgrades for these. Am I silly or do others also feel this would be enough.

 fartherthanfar wrote:
Are people on this thread (Tag8833, Shuppet) saying that the HVC should tripple to quadruple its damage output before its a decent option? let me guess, you also think this should be a free upgrade right? Sounds a bit greedy to me.
I would be completely satisfied if they were assault2 with a 10pts increase on the upgrades for these. Am I silly or do others also feel this would be enough.

I think it should be Assault 3 rather than Blast. I am trading the area of effect for rate of fire. It still wouldn't be as good as a melta and only slightly better than a Las Cannon, so I don't think it is that greedy given that the Storm Wolf has 2 TL Multi-Metlas, 1 TL Las Cannon, and 1 TL Helfrost Cannon, plus it is tougher, and a transport for 235 points. For 130 points, expecting the Harpy to have 1/3 of that damage output isn't greedy.

 fartherthanfar wrote:
Are people on this thread (Tag8833, Shuppet) saying that the HVC should tripple to quadruple its damage output before its a decent option? let me guess, you also think this should be a free upgrade right? Sounds a bit greedy to me.
I would be completely satisfied if they were assault2 with a 10pts increase on the upgrades for these. Am I silly or do others also feel this would be enough.

You are silly.

The HVC upgrade for a Fex or Tyrant is one and a half meltaguns IIRC (no Dex, sorry). The suggested points increase would bring it in line with a Lascannon for a Devastator, which is one shot, Str 9, AP2 on a BS4 model that can be boosted to BS5. What you're suggesting is the same points costs for a two shot, Str 9 AP4 gun on a BS3 model. Sure the gun is "assault" but it doesn't matter because it's being carried by a MC anyway. I think this is not a way to fix it. You've kept it the same by increasing its points cost for minimal increase in effectivity. If you don't acknowledge the HVC is not good where it is at right now, then this discussion is moot as no comparison will change your mind. But if you recognize that it needs to be fixed, then giving it two shots for no points increase is plenty viable, giving it three or four shots for a 50-100% points increase would be possibly worth it (but even more niche) and changing the gun in a much more elementary way would probably be the best option. The venom cannon is supposed to be the Tyranids premier armor piercing weapon. So why does it suck at piercing all forms of armor?

oops, sorry I actually am seeing where I screwed up, I meant Assault2 BLAST, I do agree it needs to be fixed but I find that doubling its damage output is a good enough upgrade, even with a 10pts increase

BTW I am a Nids player (exclusively) so im not trying to downplay upgrades, I want a good competitive army, not to the point of getting something OP though.

but the venom cannon is NOT supposed to be the premier armor piercing gun, its actually had all sorts of rules against armor piercing in the past.
Zoanthropes, Hierodule and MC are the real anti vehicules

I have been very much enjoying reading this thread. This little community within a community is certainly one of the high points of Dakka right now!

The last time the 'Nids were my main army was in 1st edition, so I am long out of serious play experience with them.

Reading this thread and playing Luke1705 with his new Dimachaeron (sp?) has certainly brought back my interest - and I have been wanting to do a Carnifexen list for years.

I know this wouldn't be a tournament list, but I think it would be great fun to run 3x3 Screamer-Killers. I would of course need an HQ and 2 troops - thinking a tyranid prime and six deep striking ripper bases to keep the tax down.

Unless I am mistaken, that would put me at 1470, with 380 left in an 1850 list.

Any thoughts? Zoanthropes en masse? Some screening gaunts? Malanthrope? Dimachaeron?

I know of course that flyrants and dakkafexxes would give me a far more competitive army, but they don't interest me - they "feel wrong" to me, which probably doesn't make any sense to the gentle reader.

How horrendously do folks feel I would be nerfing myself with this setup? I don't mind a list where I will be 50-50 win rate, but auto lose isn't any fun.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

 Verthane wrote:
Reading this thread and playing Luke1705 with his new Dimachaeron (sp?) has certainly brought back my interest - and I have been wanting to do a Carnifexen list for years.

I know this wouldn't be a tournament list, but I think it would be great fun to run 3x3 Screamer-Killers. I would of course need an HQ and 2 troops - thinking a tyranid prime and six deep striking ripper bases to keep the tax down.

A few thoughts. 1) if you want Melee Carnifexes you should look at the Stone Crusher varient:

It is considerable tougher than normal carnifexes and has some wargear options that make it intriguing.

2) Tyranid Prime can't join units of Carnifexes any more. It is a significant nerf. He doesn't work great unless you are running hoards. So I suggest one of two options.
A) Deathleaper - He is cheap, and give you opponent something to shoot at for a bit before dying. Alternatively he can deep strike without scatter.
B) Go full hog and run a dakka-Flyrant like the rest of us. It give you good anti-air, and some psychic support.

3) Malanthropes. The are the ideal support for Meleefexes. 1 Per 4-5 Carnifexes.

4) Gargoyles. They will keep your Carnifexes alive until they get there.

5) Carnifexes don't have to be fluffy/bad. They are our 3rd or 4th best unit. This Carnifex Spam list would do very well, against many, many things.

 fartherthanfar wrote:
oops, sorry I actually am seeing where I screwed up, I meant Assault2 BLAST, I do agree it needs to be fixed but I find that doubling its damage output is a good enough upgrade, even with a 10pts increase

BTW I am a Nids player (exclusively) so im not trying to downplay upgrades, I want a good competitive army, not to the point of getting something OP though.

but the venom cannon is NOT supposed to be the premier armor piercing gun, its actually had all sorts of rules against armor piercing in the past.
Zoanthropes, Hierodule and MC are the real anti vehicules

Problem here being that Zopes only have a chance to be effective VS vehicles, Hierodule is an expensive LOW, and our MCs got smash nerfed so they arent as effective as they were, PLUS you actually have to get them into melee to use said effectiveness. So HVC is basically our only "reasonable" tankbuster firearm. So drop the blast, make it assault 3 and give it a 5pt bump. Not OP, just effective.

A fex spam list I think is close to the heart of many Tyranid players. Tag's list is actually quite good. Especially when you roll up MOA and lay down 96 strength 6 twin-linked shots....on TURN ONE. Talk about an alpha strike. Goodness.

The only way I see melee fexes being useable would be with the apocalypse formation. And to be honest, I wonder how far off we are from seeing apoc formations in regular games. Seems like something that eighth edition may very well hold in store. We already have super heavies, lords of war and the like. I don't know that allowing apocalypse formations would be that much more game-breaking, as many of them are prohibitively expensive to field and have decently marginal benefits for the size of the formation. Much like a super heavy, you would be trading power in one area for specialty in another.

That being said, if that fex formation ever does see widespread use (or any use at all), I would need to buy some Carnifexes myself

Ok, just had a game with my Fast Attack Nids and it was one of the most ridiculous games I have ever had with Tyranids before. My opponent brought out an army that he was thinking of taking to the Las Vegas Open (LVO) GT. Unfortunately for him, he brought Daemons + Chaos Space Marines with very little shooting. I knew he was going to be in for a rough time so I actually toned down my "casual" army. It's ironic to say you're toning down your list by removing a dimachaeron + some gargoyles and replacing it with a mawloc and 2 biovores, but that was exactly what I did.



1850 FAST ATTACK TYRANIDS

Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs

Malanthrope

Tervigon - Egrubs
30x Termagants
3x Rippers - Deepstrike
3x Rippers - Deepstrike

Dimachaeron
25x Gargoyles
8x Raveners - Rending Claws

2x Biovores
Mawloc

(My original list did not have the biovores and mawloc. Instead it had 2 dimachaerons and 30 gargoyles.)


1850 NURGLE DAEMONS + CHAOS SPACE MARINES

My opponent brought something like this:

Greater Unclean One - Lvl 3, 2x Greater Gifts
Greater Unclean One - Lvl 3, 2x Greater Gifts

3x Nurglings
3x Nurglings

4x Plague Drones
4x Plague Drones

Soulgrinder - Nurgle, Phelgm

Chaos Lord - 3+/4++, Nurgle, Power Fist + Lightning Claws, Palaquin

Unit of Plague Marines w/2-3 plasmas

Unit of Havocs with 4 Krak/Flakk Missiles


So this was what happened.


Turn 1

I advance. Both flyrants fly forwards and shoot at the Havocs. I kill more than half of the unit and they break, running of the table and giving me First Blood.


Turn 2

GUO summons 1 unit of daemonettes.

Raveners assault GUO...and I actually lose combat while out of Synapse! Fortunately for me, Nurgle daemons are Slow & Purposeful, meaning that my raveners break away cleanly.

Dimachaeron kills 1 unit of plague drones.


Turn 3

Dimachaeron wipes out another unit of plague drones.

Dimachaeron also finishes off the Chaos Lord, who charges into combat to try to help out the plague drones.

Chaos wipes out my unit of gargoyles.

Malanthrope punks a unit of nurglings (well, there was only 1 left when he assaulted), thus giving all bugs within 12" Prefered Enemy.


Turn 4

Dimachaeron wipes out both GUO's.

I finish off almost everything else. The only unit left on the table is an immobilized soulgrinder with 2HP's remaining.


Turn 5

Chaos tabled.


This was basically the ideal matchup for my dimachaeron. That guy marched through my opponent's entire army, killing over 1000-pts of models!!! I can still hear my Chaos opponent swearing at the dimachaeron til this day. "The dima is so broken! Forgeworld really missed the mark on this. What the hell were they thinking?!? Is this guy actually legal at the LVO? yadda, yadda, yadda...," complained my opponent. This game has even eclipsed my other game against Space Wolves where my dimachaeron single-handedly slew 4 Wolf Lords on Thunderwolves (about 900-pts of HQ's)!!! BTW, I only lost 1 unit in the game - my gargoyles - and that was it.

Dimey may not do well in most games, especially when going up against shooty armies. But there is that 1 game in 5 where he will see a matchup that he likes. And when he does so, he will be spectacular.

 jy2 wrote:


This was basically the ideal matchup for my dimachaeron. That guy marched through my opponent's entire army, killing over 1000-pts of models!!! I can still hear my Chaos opponent swearing at the dimachaeron til this day. "The dima is so broken! Forgeworld really missed the mark on this. What the hell were they thinking?!? Is this guy actually legal at the LVO? yadda, yadda, yadda...," complained my opponent. This game has even eclipsed my other game against Space Wolves where my dimachaeron single-handedly slew 4 Wolf Lords on Thunderwolves (about 900-pts of HQ's)!!! BTW, I only lost 1 unit in the game - my gargoyles - and that was it.

Dimey may not do well in most games, especially when going up against shooty armies. But there is that 1 game in 5 where he will see a matchup that he likes. And when he does so, he will be spectacular.

Haha. Dimasharooni Broken? Be quiet.

I would have loved to have seen that game, sounds like it was a lot of fun ( for you anyway haha.)

 jy2 wrote:
Dimachaeron wipes out both GUO's.

Dimachaeron vs GUO's is all down to who swings first. Unfortunately GUO's have several ways to buff their initiative, and the Dimachaeron has no grenades, so it will usually be the GUO's. How did you manage to get in with a higher / the Same initiative?

Chaos is an army that a Dima might actually be good against to be fair. But for the most part, its just a model thats only broken if you make it broken.

 Wilson wrote:

 jy2 wrote:


This was basically the ideal matchup for my dimachaeron. That guy marched through my opponent's entire army, killing over 1000-pts of models!!! I can still hear my Chaos opponent swearing at the dimachaeron til this day. "The dima is so broken! Forgeworld really missed the mark on this. What the hell were they thinking?!? Is this guy actually legal at the LVO? yadda, yadda, yadda...," complained my opponent. This game has even eclipsed my other game against Space Wolves where my dimachaeron single-handedly slew 4 Wolf Lords on Thunderwolves (about 900-pts of HQ's)!!! BTW, I only lost 1 unit in the game - my gargoyles - and that was it.

Dimey may not do well in most games, especially when going up against shooty armies. But there is that 1 game in 5 where he will see a matchup that he likes. And when he does so, he will be spectacular.

Haha. Dimasharooni Broken? Be quiet.

I would have loved to have seen that game, sounds like it was a lot of fun ( for you anyway haha.)

Actually, sometimes, these types of games just aren't really fun to watch. The dima was just a counter to his army and there wasn't much that he could have done about it (well, there was, but it still would have been an uphill battle for him).

As for me, I was trying hard not to bust out laughing, but the more he ranted, the harder it was for me to control it. But don't worry, he is a good 40K friend of mine.

tag8833 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Dimachaeron wipes out both GUO's.

Dimachaeron vs GUO's is all down to who swings first. Unfortunately GUO's have several ways to buff their initiative, and the Dimachaeron has no grenades, so it will usually be the GUO's. How did you manage to get in with a higher / the Same initiative?

Right, except my opponent didn't think to give his greater daemons the baleswords. So in this case, it really didn't matter if my dimachaeron swung first or not, unless my opponent was able to get both GUO's into combat at the same time. But a WS8 dima with Prefered Enemy from the Malanthrope is a scary sight indeed. He'd cut down anything that isn't Eternal Warrior, Invisible or without re-rollable saves.

BTW, after the match, I told him when playing against units like these (lots of multi-wound units or MC's), he needs to exchange one of his Greater Gifts for the Balesword.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Chaos is an army that a Dima might actually be good against to be fair. But for the most part, its just a model thats only broken if you make it broken.

To be fair, the Dima is actually good against most assault armies that a) doesn't shoot well, b) are not Invisible or c) does not consists of a mega-deathstar.

tag8833 wrote:

1) if you want Melee Carnifexes you should look at the Stone Crusher varient: It is considerable tougher than normal carnifexes and has some wargear options that make it intriguing.

2) Tyranid Prime can't join units of Carnifexes any more. It is a significant nerf. He doesn't work great unless you are running hoards. So I suggest one of two options.
A) Deathleaper - He is cheap, and give you opponent something to shoot at for a bit before dying. Alternatively he can deep strike without scatter.
B) Go full hog and run a dakka-Flyrant like the rest of us. It give you good anti-air, and some psychic support.
3) Malanthropes. The are the ideal support for Meleefexes. 1 Per 4-5 Carnifexes.
4) Gargoyles. They will keep your Carnifexes alive until they get there.
5) Carnifexes don't have to be fluffy/bad. They are our 3rd or 4th best unit. This Carnifex Spam list would do very well, against many, many things.

Spoiler:

Hive Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL-Devourers, E. Grubs)
Hive Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL-Devourers, E. Grubs)
Malanthrope
Malanthrope
20 Hormagants
20 Hormagants
20 Gargoyles
2 Carnifexes (2 TL-Devourers)
2 Carnifexes (2 TL-Devourers)
2 Carnifexes (2 TL-Devourers)
I've run this list a few times. It works very, very well, and tables quite a few opponents.

Thanks, tag, I appreciate the suggestions!
The stonecrushers are an excellent idea, and I do really like the idea of using deathleaper for the HQ.

Malanthropes seem ideal; the thought of 6-7 Zoeies moving them up and providing support also seems fun, if probably less effective.

The list looks very solid. Pulling from it, hormagants might be a good call too.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

luke1705 wrote:
A fex spam list I think is close to the heart of many Tyranid players. Tag's list is actually quite good. Especially when you roll up MOA and lay down 96 strength 6 twin-linked shots....on TURN ONE. Talk about an alpha strike. Goodness.

The only way I see melee fexes being useable would be with the apocalypse formation. And to be honest, I wonder how far off we are from seeing apoc formations in regular games. Seems like something that eighth edition may very well hold in store. We already have super heavies, lords of war and the like. I don't know that allowing apocalypse formations would be that much more game-breaking, as many of them are prohibitively expensive to field and have decently marginal benefits for the size of the formation. Much like a super heavy, you would be trading power in one area for specialty in another.

That being said, if that fex formation ever does see widespread use (or any use at all), I would need to buy some Carnifexes myself

Indeed, the Apoc formation is superb and would be great fun to run.

"That's not a bio-plasma; THIS is a bio-plasma! "

 Verthane wrote:
I have been very much enjoying reading this thread. This little community within a community is certainly one of the high points of Dakka right now!

The last time the 'Nids were my main army was in 1st edition, so I am long out of serious play experience with them.

Reading this thread and playing Luke1705 with his new Dimachaeron (sp?) has certainly brought back my interest - and I have been wanting to do a Carnifexen list for years.

I know this wouldn't be a tournament list, but I think it would be great fun to run 3x3 Screamer-Killers. I would of course need an HQ and 2 troops - thinking a tyranid prime and six deep striking ripper bases to keep the tax down.

Unless I am mistaken, that would put me at 1470, with 380 left in an 1850 list.

Any thoughts? Zoanthropes en masse? Some screening gaunts? Malanthrope? Dimachaeron?

I know of course that flyrants and dakkafexxes would give me a far more competitive army, but they don't interest me - they "feel wrong" to me, which probably doesn't make any sense to the gentle reader.

How horrendously do folks feel I would be nerfing myself with this setup? I don't mind a list where I will be 50-50 win rate, but auto lose isn't any fun.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

Take a look at the 3rd leviathan Dataslate. The Wrecker Node is 3 brood of meleefex and 1 brood of melee warriors. It is battleforged list all by itseld as it is an official formation, or take it with a normal CAD.

 Verthane wrote:



"That's not a bio-plasma; THIS is a bio-plasma! "

You want Bio Plasma?

Nidzilla!!!!

875 points

WS7 BS3 S10 T7 W8 I5 A5 LD10 SV2+

Unit: 1 Nidzilla

Type: Gargantuan Monstrous Creature

Special Rules: Fearless, Shadow in The Warp, Instinctive Behaviour ( Hunt), ML2 Psyker, Rampage.

Electroshock Bio-Plasma Scream:

Torrent 6" SD*, AP2 Torrent, Bio-Plasma Lance*

*Bio-Plasma Lance
Nidzilla may narrow it's scream into a death ray-like beam to Focus on a single enemy target.

Bio Plasma Lance
Range 24, SD*, AP1, Beam*

*St D - If the target is a Vehicle or a Building, On a roll of a 4,5 and 6 The target suffers a Devastating hit, otherwise suffers a normal result on the Destroyer Weapon Attack Table.
*Beam - Pick an enemy target within 24" and trace a 1mm line from that point up to the maximum range. each model under that

Gargantuous Claws.

SD, AP1, Sunder

Sunder - May re-roll on the Destroyer Weapon Attack Table against Buildings and Vehicles.

OrdoSean wrote:
Hey I have a question for y'all. Has anyone been having success with lictors?

I ran the lictor formation: Death leaper and 5 solo lictors recently in a few test games and in a tournament(battle for salvation on the east coast) as come the apocalypse allies with my old dark eldar in their final run before the new codex. And I have to say they were a great success, and has me wondering if anyone has incorporated them into tyranid lists or other weird allied formats.

I love the models and so have been itching to maybe run a pure tyranid army along with the formation, as the new dark eldar codex isnt really inspiring me at the moment.

I admit that I don't have very much experience with the Lictor formation. I've only ever run it once in a casual game. However, I can definitely see it contributing to a Tyranid force. It's contributions are not as obvious as those from Living Artillery or Skyblight, but they can help you with the Movement phase and take away valuable resources from the opposing forces in order to deal with. They're especially good if you're playing against enemy deathstar builds, though not as great if playing against MSU builds.

I think I'm going to have to revisit this formation.

barnowl wrote:

 Verthane wrote:
I have been wanting to do a Carnifexen list for years.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

Take a look at the 3rd leviathan Dataslate. The Wrecker Node is 3 brood of meleefex and 1 brood of melee warriors. It is battleforged list all by itseld as it is an official formation, or take it with a normal CAD.

Much appreciated, Barnowl, I will check that out!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wilson wrote:

 Verthane wrote:



"That's not a bio-plasma; THIS is a bio-plasma! "

You want Bio Plasma?

Nidzilla!!!!

875 points

WS7 BS3 S10 T7 W8 I5 A5 LD10 SV2+

Unit: 1 Nidzilla

Type: Gargantuan Monstrous Creature

Special Rules: Fearless, Shadow in The Warp, Instinctive Behaviour ( Hunt), ML2 Psyker, Rampage.

Electroshock Bio-Plasma Scream:

Torrent 6" SD*, AP2 Torrent, Bio-Plasma Lance*

*Bio-Plasma Lance
Nidzilla may narrow it's scream into a death ray-like beam to Focus on a single enemy target.

Bio Plasma Lance
Range 24, SD*, AP1, Beam*

*St D - If the target is a Vehicle or a Building, On a roll of a 4,5 and 6 The target suffers a Devastating hit, otherwise suffers a normal result on the Destroyer Weapon Attack Table.
*Beam - Pick an enemy target within 24" and trace a 1mm line from that point up to the maximum range. each model under that

Gargantuous Claws.

SD, AP1, Sunder

Sunder - May re-roll on the Destroyer Weapon Attack Table against Buildings and Vehicles.

OK, Wilson, I will bite - what is that?

 Wilson wrote:

You want Bio Plasma?

Nidzilla!!!!

875 points

WS7 BS3 S10 T7 W8 I5 A5 LD10 SV2+

Unit: 1 Nidzilla

Type: Gargantuan Monstrous Creature

Special Rules: Fearless, Shadow in The Warp, Instinctive Behaviour ( Hunt), ML2 Psyker, Rampage.

Electroshock Bio-Plasma Scream:

Torrent 6" SD*, AP2 Torrent, Bio-Plasma Lance*

*Bio-Plasma Lance
Nidzilla may narrow it's scream into a death ray-like beam to Focus on a single enemy target.

Bio Plasma Lance
Range 24, SD*, AP1, Beam*

*St D - If the target is a Vehicle or a Building, On a roll of a 4,5 and 6 The target suffers a Devastating hit, otherwise suffers a normal result on the Destroyer Weapon Attack Table.
*Beam - Pick an enemy target within 24" and trace a 1mm line from that point up to the maximum range. each model under that

Gargantuous Claws.

SD, AP1, Sunder

Sunder - May re-roll on the Destroyer Weapon Attack Table against Buildings and Vehicles.

This is insanely broken and has no place in standard 40k games.

...yet makes me weak at the knees

 jy2 wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Chaos is an army that a Dima might actually be good against to be fair. But for the most part, its just a model thats only broken if you make it broken.

To be fair, the Dima is actually good against most assault armies that a) doesn't shoot well, b) are not Invisible or c) does not consists of a mega-deathstar.

Yup, I definitely agree. Unfortunately, that's only like 1/3 of the armies out there at best, and then out of those armies, host them are the weaker armies in the game anyway. And even for the ones that aren't, Nids have the natural edge over practically any of them, we are the anti-assaulty army with our supreme close range dakka, and the fact that even once they make it to assault with us they still aren't necessarily in a great place because while not as much as other armies, we still have heaps of natural CC presence, still enough to wreck shooty armies in assault, and enough to hold our own with dedicated CC armies quite well and gainin the upper hand with all our shooty. Nids shooting us underrated, and point blank range we could beat Tau in roll off, it's the range of our guns that limits us, however against close range armies that's no longer an issue.

To clarify, I think the Dima is a terrible TAC model. However, against one of the armies with more challenging CC models (jy2 has actually already listed a couple of the big ones, TWC & GUO) a Dima or two is quite a good counter pick IMO to get the edge back, just play to make sure it gets it's charge off (assault the turn before with a Garg blob is my opinion). In my practice games with a proxies Dima I found against an opponent not making big play mistakes, it was a model highly dependant on the army they chose.

to be fair there is lots in our codex you can make the same argument for.

And none of it sees play. Also, in the dex I don't really think there is a better CC dedicated model than Dima, once you make the assumption that everything is going to make it to combat against another assault army.

That incident sounds soul crushing for the Chaos player. As a Slaaneshi daemons player though, I don't think I'd be too worried. I don't recall the stats of the Dima, but I'm pretty my seekers /w locus of re-rolling would eat it for breakfast.

Ok, for my next battle, I am going to revisit the Deathleaper Assassin Brood:


1850 TYRANIDS

Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs

Malanthrope

3x Rippers - Deepstrike
3x Rippers - Deepstrike
3x Rippers - Deepstrike

Dimachaeron
28x Gargoyles

Mawloc
Mawloc

Bastion - Comms, 1x Void Shield

Deathleaper

5x Lictors




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
That incident sounds soul crushing for the Chaos player. As a Slaaneshi daemons player though, I don't think I'd be too worried. I don't recall the stats of the Dima, but I'm pretty my seekers /w locus of re-rolling would eat it for breakfast.

Yeah, they would, which is why you would screen him out with the unit of gargoyles first....after you've dakka'd them with your flyrants first, of course.

 SHUPPET wrote:
And none of it sees play. Also, in the dex I don't really think there is a better CC dedicated model than Dima, once you make the assumption that everything is going to make it to combat against another assault army.

sword/whip + RC TS flesh hook shrikes net a lot more attacks for the same points, but they're at S4 and not S8, will generally go first and give no feths about terrain. apples and oranges though. dima's nasty for sure if you make the assumption it gets into combat with what you want it to.

 jy2 wrote:
Yeah, they would, which is why you would screen him out with the unit of gargoyles first....after you've dakka'd them with your flyrants first, of course.

Oh, absolutely. Though, in that situation it's not really the Dima doing any of the work, eh?

 gigasnail wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
And none of it sees play. Also, in the dex I don't really think there is a better CC dedicated model than Dima, once you make the assumption that everything is going to make it to combat against another assault army.

sword/whip + RC TS flesh hook shrikes net a lot more attacks for the same points, but they're at S4 and not S8, will generally go first and give no feths about terrain. apples and oranges though. dima's nasty for sure if you make the assumption it gets into combat with what you want it to.

Yes, that's what Shrikes do. Yet in the original context, Shrike is not one of the models that this statement applies to:

 SHUPPET wrote:
against one of the armies with more challenging CC models (jy2 has actually already listed a couple of the big ones, TWC & GUO) a Dima or two is quite a good counter pick IMO to get the edge back

 gigasnail wrote:
to be fair there is lots in our codex you can make the same argument for.

Shrikes will get absolutely shredded by TWC or GUO. Absolutely shredded.