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 Leth wrote:
Think the swarmlord in a pod will bring the ole boy back?

Being able to deep strike into the middle of the enemy army, as well as give out all his buffs would be pretty powerful I would think.

Makes it a lot easier to run him without the guards in that case.

Maybe, but I'd rather have Tyrant Guard to give him ablative wounds. In anycase, you're paying at least 335 for one guard and the Swarmlord, more for a Tyrannocyte - and it's hard to take the Swamlord when a Flyrant and Bastion w/ Comms Relay does practically the same thing for the same amount of points.

In a reserve heavy list though, he may have a niche.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Think the swarmlord in a pod will bring the ole boy back?

Being able to deep strike into the middle of the enemy army, as well as give out all his buffs would be pretty powerful I would think.

Makes it a lot easier to run him without the guards in that case.

Maybe, but I'd rather have Tyrant Guard to give him ablative wounds. In anycase, you're paying at least 335 for one guard and the Swarmlord, more for a Tyrannocyte - and it's hard to take the Swamlord when a Flyrant and Bastion w/ Comms Relay does practically the same thing for the same amount of points.

In a reserve heavy list though, he may have a niche.

I used him in a t-cyte last Monday when the rules leaked. I was very satisfied. I was able to put him in a safe but threatening position, then assault the very next turn. He emptied a corner of the table by the endgame.

I notice everyone seems to be using a lot of Mawlocs.

Are they considered better than Trygons?

Yes

 Tyran wrote:
Yes

Why is that?
Because they are cheaper?

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Think the swarmlord in a pod will bring the ole boy back?

Being able to deep strike into the middle of the enemy army, as well as give out all his buffs would be pretty powerful I would think.

Makes it a lot easier to run him without the guards in that case.

Maybe, but I'd rather have Tyrant Guard to give him ablative wounds. In anycase, you're paying at least 335 for one guard and the Swarmlord, more for a Tyrannocyte - and it's hard to take the Swamlord when a Flyrant and Bastion w/ Comms Relay does practically the same thing for the same amount of points.

In a reserve heavy list though, he may have a niche.

I used him in a t-cyte last Monday when the rules leaked. I was very satisfied. I was able to put him in a safe but threatening position, then assault the very next turn. He emptied a corner of the table by the endgame.

Well, I do have a Hive Tyrant box unassembled...this gives me ideas


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dan2026 wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
Yes

Why is that?
Because they are cheaper?

Well there's that...and for 10 points more the Dimachaeron does it better (and in FA, so you can take Dakkafexen and stuff).

IMO, losing Re-rolls to hit and nerfs to poison and smash made it have a niche roll to DS Troops (usurped by the Tyrannocyte).

 Leth wrote:
Think the swarmlord in a pod will bring the ole boy back?

Being able to deep strike into the middle of the enemy army, as well as give out all his buffs would be pretty powerful I would think.

Makes it a lot easier to run him without the guards in that case.

Not quite. Dropping him without Guards is suicide. Because he can't take guards in the pod with him, it means two pods and the chance for very bad things due to one not coming in. If you do want to pod him in, this is what I suggest:

That is 655 which is waaay too much. Swarmlord's best place is still at the center of a giant hoard of advancing gribbles handing out buffs, and cleaning up whatever they manage to tarpit.

Consider this list to utilize Swarmlord's strengths.

All of that being said, I've written a Swarmlord tactica, but wanted 2 more test games before I publish it, and now I'm going to have to go back to the drawing board with it.

Did I mention how much I love the term 'gribbles'.

save your pods for zoanthropes my friends, the doom is back!!!

 dan2026 wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
Yes

Why is that?
Because they are cheaper?

They are cheaper. They do more damage. They offer something (AP:2) at range, plus great mobility on an MC that Trygon's don't.

Trygons, and Tervigons got hit the hardest with the changes to smash. Without being a meaningful threat to vehicles in assault, they have fallen dramatically in usefulness.

So there are going to be new books apparantly.

A new detachment with a focus on Leviathan (so a mandatory Fast Attack slot?) as well as Death from the Skies rules for Aerial Combat which sound very intriguing. There are also going to be new formations and datasheets for new units, as well as new Warlord Traits.

Don't normally say this to GW but



EDIT: Apparantly there is a new FAQ coming soon too, whether for new models or previous rules IDK

So let's be realistic - right now is probably the best time it's been to be a Nid player in like 6 years or longer. With a couple of let downs (Trygon :@), there is just so many viable units in our. A TRANSPORT WAS ALL WE NEEDED. As someone who has been decidedly unimpressed with GW in relation to Xeno releases all year, I'm actually willing to support this current release with my dollars, and I SUGGEST EVERYONE DO THE SAME if they feel a similar way about it. The only effect we can have on promoting good balancing decisions is by supporting it when they do deliver, and voting with your wallet when they don't.

Shuppet,

It is kind of sad to think that it's been six years since the fourth edition golden age. That being said, I am definitely happy to see where GW has gone with our army in the last few weeks, as is just about everyone I think. But the most crazy thing is - more is yet to come.

On the horizon we have:

1) The new Zoanthrope/Venomthrope kit (not that we need more of them but I'm sure it will be cool) This most importantly includes the option to upgrade to a Neurothrope, which I can't imagine is a unique upgrade. So what that means is you can still have 2 solo Zoans floating around for cheap warp charge and a LOT of psychic shenanigans now. Or you can pod a group of 2 or 3 and do the same fun stuff. I don't know if it seems worth it to pod based on the Neurothrope's leaked info so far, but who knows? It could be. Plus they can psychically "split fire" so maybe it will be pretty decent after all

2) A new campaign box with unique models (I believe they said that the prime would be leading our force)

3) New dataslates/formations. We've been the luckiest by far with two incredibly playable formations that work in dramatically different ways, plus a large number of formations that we can take if we want to, again adding to our list-building flexibility. And now, GW has seen fit to have the rich get richer.

My one hope (in addition to the return of Godfexes in our next codex) is that one of these formations somehow gives us the ability to drop pod assault. Whatever it takes to do that, I will probably do lol. Although it is hypothetical, I'd like to pose a hypothetical question to you guys:

If we do indeed somehow get a turn 1/2 at the latest pod option in the formations/dataslates to be released (formations confirmed by a rumor but nothing indicating a drop pod assault - this is just my wishlisting) how would this alter things for you? What would you want to bring down? How would your list/tactics change?

luke1705 wrote:

If we do indeed somehow get a turn 1/2 at the latest pod option in the formations/dataslates to be released (formations confirmed by a rumor but nothing indicating a drop pod assault - this is just my wishlisting) how would this alter things for you? What would you want to bring down? How would your list/tactics change?

I'd probably put my Nids back on the shelf like I did with Tau over a year ago. I like being balanced internally, that would really throw out the power balance leaning heavily towards drop pod assault. I also somewhat enjoy being the underdog, I'd rather have bad internal balance and be underpowered as a result, than have terrible internal balance and as a result be a top tier tourney dominating codex. Without the Riptide I would have stuck with Tau, but there is absolutely no reason strategically not to have 3 in every list, I don't like bringing the WAAC flavor of the month armies, but I also don't like having to handicap my own builds and want to play my codexes to the fullest. So they have not left their glass cabinet in a long long time now.


I like this love Nids are getting, but I really hope they don't overdo it. We are in a good state now, I would love to see a new DoM, what I would really like is to see Stealers giving a points reduction and frags, Warriors given EW, Raveners given something else to make the risk worth it (an extra attack and a points reduction preferrably), Trygon's given haywire, Tervigons buffed, and the HQ's to be fixed, and I'd be pretty much happy.

Drop pod assault fixes Stealers, but it absolutely breaks Dakkafex & Dima. Walkrants would sit on the borderline of OP as well.

To be clear, I don't mean assaulting out of reserves. That would be terribly broken. I just mean coming in on turn one and two. To be honest, although it would be better, I don't know that a Dimachaeron coming in turn 1 is massively better than him coming in 8/9 times on turn 2 (which we currently can do)

Oh yeah that would be fine, hope they do it too would be cool. It would be much better allowing your whole army to DS without much fear of a tabling, like going second against DS melts you'd have to leave things on the board. Could also save points on a bastion. Wouldn't be OP at all though just a nice way of making a list more viable.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Cheers.
I will post back my analysis.

Like some keep a record of win/loss/draw ratio in their signatures, I'm considering just adding a count for how many Wraith Knights my Toxicrenes manage to eat

I approve of this. Which reminds me, I need to transfer my old sig across. in my case, it's the number of termagants expended in games...


Podding in tyrant guard is a nice idea. Yes, they get stuck with unwieldy for crushing claws, but it's not like carnifex or tervigons tend to strike first anyway...
Equally, if they're appearing at close range, might hive guard get some worthwhile use out of those silly haywire gun things?

Pyrovores are 3 heavy flamers - which is nice - but I think I'd still rather pay a (relatively few) more points and drop a tyrannofex with an acid spray and dessicators in, because torrent means you'll get almost as many hits off two templates as the pyros would off three, you wound on 2s not 3s against most targets, and the damn thing is MUCH harder to kill

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Cheers.
I will post back my analysis.

Like some keep a record of win/loss/draw ratio in their signatures, I'm considering just adding a count for how many Wraith Knights my Toxicrenes manage to eat

Haha, do it for a Dreadknight/Riptide too

Maleceptor could have a niche being Podded in, dropping in the opponents deployment zone while picking off characters with it's Focused Witchfire and using Dominion to be used a tougher Synapse Peg in the opponents Deployment Zone than the Zoanthrope.

I'm trying REALLY hard to like the Maleceptor :(

locarno24 wrote:

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Cheers.
I will post back my analysis.

Like some keep a record of win/loss/draw ratio in their signatures, I'm considering just adding a count for how many Wraith Knights my Toxicrenes manage to eat

I approve of this. Which reminds me, I need to transfer my old sig across. in my case, it's the number of termagants expended in games...


Podding in tyrant guard is a nice idea. Yes, they get stuck with unwieldy for crushing claws, but it's not like carnifex or tervigons tend to strike first anyway...
Equally, if they're appearing at close range, might hive guard get some worthwhile use out of those silly haywire gun things?

Pyrovores are 3 heavy flamers - which is nice - but I think I'd still rather pay a (relatively few) more points and drop a tyrannofex with an acid spray and dessicators in, because torrent means you'll get almost as many hits off two templates as the pyros would off three, you wound on 2s not 3s against most targets, and the damn thing is MUCH harder to kill

Only 1 is torrent, and only 1 is S6. Pyrovores will hit a lot harder if you DS successfully and because of the pod rules you stand a good chance of being right in place even off a little scatter. Tyranno will only hit harder if you land way off, and even then it's only damage control, as it's not an optimal model if you land out of range. Don't get me wrong, Tyranno is good, just making it clear that the trade off is extra damage for extra tank, also 2x Tyrannofexes is more than 3x e Pyrovores worth of points, other than the Drop pods which mostly look like they pay for themselves IMO, a couple of points out at most. Also HS vs Elite is an easy one. There is advantages to both. Pyrovores are good tho, they also nice in CC

Sinful Hero wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Just a few quick questions from an un-informed Nid player:

1) Where are these formations (Deathleaper, Living Artillery) coming from? WD? Dataslate?

2) And I have the WD with the Toxicrene rules, but has the WD with the pod and mucolid rules been and gone or is it coming up?

3) Malanthropes are FW, right? And so I have to buy an expensive IA book to gain access to their rules?

Thanks :thumsbup:

1.) They're found in three different dataslates.
2.) Hasn't been released yet.
3.) Imperial Armour IV:The Anphelion Project 2nd edition.

Thanks!

And, yes, I'll agree with the other posters that now seems a great time to be a Nid player. I really don't want to spend too much on an army I'd considered completed, but I could do with a Zoan/Venomthrope box set (especially if there's a Doom v2) and a drop pod would be brilliant, though I'll likely be converting or scratch building my own, depending on the price of the kit. It's a dual kit with the mucolids, right?

 The Shadow wrote:

Sinful Hero wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Just a few quick questions from an un-informed Nid player:

1) Where are these formations (Deathleaper, Living Artillery) coming from? WD? Dataslate?

2) And I have the WD with the Toxicrene rules, but has the WD with the pod and mucolid rules been and gone or is it coming up?

3) Malanthropes are FW, right? And so I have to buy an expensive IA book to gain access to their rules?

Thanks :thumsbup:

1.) They're found in three different dataslates.
2.) Hasn't been released yet.
3.) Imperial Armour IV:The Anphelion Project 2nd edition.

Thanks!

And, yes, I'll agree with the other posters that now seems a great time to be a Nid player. I really don't want to spend too much on an army I'd considered completed, but I could do with a Zoan/Venomthrope box set (especially if there's a Doom v2) and a drop pod would be brilliant, though I'll likely be converting or scratch building my own, depending on the price of the kit. It's a dual kit with the mucolids, right?

It's a dual kit between a Tyrannocyte or a Sporocyst and a Mucolid. If you have some Greenstuff laying around you could possibly make a Tyrannocyte and a Mucolid.

I was given a White Dwarf a little early yesterday, and the wording in it made it sound like you cant make a Mucolid if you build the Tyrannocite with just the parts in the kit.

tag8833 wrote:
So here I am doing a little theory crafting around the Drop pods. It occurred to me that experimenting with lists devoid of a Flyrant might be a good idea. This is what I've come up with:

Spoiler:

CAD:
Tyrannocyte (VC)
Tyrannocyte (VC)
Tyrannocyte (VC)

Tyranid Prime (TS, LW + BS, FH, AG)

Malanthrope

17 Hormagants
20 Termagants (10 Fleshborers, 10 Devourers)

20 Gargoyles

Tyrannofex (EG)
Mawloc
Carnifex (2 TL-Devourers)

Living Artillery Node:
3 Warriors(BS)
Exocrine
3 Biovores

Aegis Line w/ Quad gun

I like this list because it gives me options.
I can put any of the following into a pod:
Prime + Hormies.
Termagants
Carnifex
Tyrannofex
Exocrine
I can even run them empty!

I've got a malanthrope with a 2+ save manning a quad gun. lol. Or I can put the prime on there to keep him safe.

I've got lots 15 S6 blasts coming off those pods with a 36" range. Ripping up infantry, but also making vehicles scared of turning their back to a Pod.

I'm going to struggle with Adamantine lance, but should be able to play the edges of the board, and I still have the ability to kill one Knight.

This looks like a really fun list to play, Tag!

 Iechine wrote:
I was given a White Dwarf a little early yesterday, and the wording in it made it sound like you cant make a Mucolid if you build the Tyrannocite with just the parts in the kit.

That's what I said, but with Greenstuff you might can make a bottom to the Tyrannocyte and/or the Mucolid. Sculpting tyranid tentacles isn't too bad.

I should be able to figure something out then. I consider myself quite a good green stuff-er, and I have plenty of spare Tyranid carapaces lying around from the dual Carnifex kit.

I think I'll need to because both units strike me as very good ones that I'll likely want to use a lot in games.

People generally agreeing that Tyrannocytes kind of max out effectiveness around 3?

Has anyone played with spamming them?


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People generally agreeing that Tyrannocytes kind of max out effectiveness around 3?

Has anyone played with spamming them?

Ive ordered 2. I cant see myself using more unless I get into the 2000pt range. Even then 150 pts is nothing to overlook, its a pricey investment.

 ductvader wrote:
People generally agreeing that Tyrannocytes kind of max out effectiveness around 3?

Has anyone played with spamming them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
People generally agreeing that Tyrannocytes kind of max out effectiveness around 3?

Has anyone played with spamming them?

There's no limit to how many are useful. Depends on the units you want to take.

 ductvader wrote:
People generally agreeing that Tyrannocytes kind of max out effectiveness around 3?

Has anyone played with spamming them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
People generally agreeing that Tyrannocytes kind of max out effectiveness around 3?

Has anyone played with spamming them?

Well with a single pod taking up anywhere from 4 to 5.5% of a standard 1850 tournament list (depending on upgrades) there is certainly a point at which the efficiency of the pods dwindle. The key is to have the threats inside the tyrannocytes worthy enough to give the opponent pause, while still maintaining a strong battlefield presence with what's left on the table as well. I have only theorycrafted this, and 1 test proxy game where i used a single tyrannocyte at 1500. I would imagine at 4% per pod, with no upgrades, 4 would be the upper limit i would ever try to field in a game. I plan on buying 2, and they will probably both see the table almost every game once i've built and painted them.

 ductvader wrote:
People generally agreeing that Tyrannocytes kind of max out effectiveness around 3?

Has anyone played with spamming them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
People generally agreeing that Tyrannocytes kind of max out effectiveness around 3?

Has anyone played with spamming them?

I also agree that there is probably the highest we can go. That's over 200 points right there (and is 300 if you get the better guns which, as appetizing as it sounds, I think we can spend our points better elsewhere). I don't even know that I would do three unless we had guaranteed turn 1/turn 2 from a formation. That's a lot of your army in reserves