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tag8833 wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

Here's 40k Brawls latest rep making use of the Tyrannocytes, leviathan detatchment and fighter ace upgrade vs serpant spam.

Please enjoy!

Spoiler:

Interesting. Tyrants demolished the serpents. It ran counter to my experience, so I tracked it a bit.

Shooting Devourers at a front or side of a serpent should do 1.78 hull points, but with holo fields they jink 2/3 of those away for a net of 0.59 Hull points.
If they do E.Grubs rather than 1 Devourer that goes up to 1.13 hull points.

Turn 1, 2 Tyrants, Kill a serpent with Devourers. Should have done 1.19 Hull points. Another Tyrant does nothing should have done 0.59 Hull points. Expected: 1.78 Actual 3.
Turn 2, 2 Tyrants kill a serpent (in range of E.grubs). Should have done 2.26 Hull points. Also, the Tyrannocyte shot at dire avengers instead of a Serpent which was closer. Expected: 4.04 Actual 6.
Turn 3, 1 Tyrant kills a serpent (in range of E.grubs), Should have done 1.13 Hull points. Crone + Tyrant (in range of E.Grubs) kill a Wave serpent, should have done 1.63 hull points. Expected: 6.79 Actual 9.
Turn 4, 1 Tyrant fails to hurt a serpent should have done 0.59. Expected: 6.79 Actual 9. Expected: 7.38 Actual 9.
Turn 5, 1 Tyrant (in range of E.Grubs) does 2 hullpoints. Should have done 1.13. Expected: 8.52 Actual 11.

Basically the tyrants got pretty lucky, but only 23% above average. It just seemed flashy.

^ I love this. I'm so glad someone had the time both to watch and record his findings. I know personally I do not have his luck, but I'll go on breathing knowing his rolls weren't "that" lucky and was only 23% over the expected.

Example of MY luck: 5 Zoans deep strike from pod in front arc of Imperial Knight. Guess where his shield is going (I wanted his side arcs to be shieldless against my Flyrants' dakka).

All 5 hit! Five 3+ rolls on my BS!
4 pens and 1 glance! BOOYAH!
All five shots get deflected by his 4++ invuln.

Well played, Imperial Knight. Well played.

Just think you were unlucky Saythings. Knights are a tricky foe for Tyranids to take down (it's also helpful that Knights can't really do much to our ace Flyrants)

On the subject of luck, here's mine:

One ripper base in CC with Riptide.
Ripper attacks, hits once. Roll to wound, gets the 6 required Riptide fails the 2+ armour save! No worries has FnP. Fails the FnP!

Right, time to get vengeance on those Rippers. Rolls a 1,1,2 to hit. Then rolls a 9 for Ld. End result? Ends up being overrun by the lowly Ripper Swarm.

It was a good day to be a Tyranid player.

 Frozocrone wrote:
On the subject of luck, here's mine.

My recent luck. Between 3 consecutive games I had 4 squads of rippers mishap and die. Only 2 Squads made it to the board alive, and one of those mishapped and was misplaced. My Rippers like to scatter. In one of those games I had a Tyrannocyte roll 13 hits on 15 scatters for his VC.

Saythings wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

Here's 40k Brawls latest rep making use of the Tyrannocytes, leviathan detatchment and fighter ace upgrade vs serpant spam.

Please enjoy!

Spoiler:

Interesting. Tyrants demolished the serpents. It ran counter to my experience, so I tracked it a bit.

Shooting Devourers at a front or side of a serpent should do 1.78 hull points, but with holo fields they jink 2/3 of those away for a net of 0.59 Hull points.
If they do E.Grubs rather than 1 Devourer that goes up to 1.13 hull points.

Turn 1, 2 Tyrants, Kill a serpent with Devourers. Should have done 1.19 Hull points. Another Tyrant does nothing should have done 0.59 Hull points. Expected: 1.78 Actual 3.
Turn 2, 2 Tyrants kill a serpent (in range of E.grubs). Should have done 2.26 Hull points. Also, the Tyrannocyte shot at dire avengers instead of a Serpent which was closer. Expected: 4.04 Actual 6.
Turn 3, 1 Tyrant kills a serpent (in range of E.grubs), Should have done 1.13 Hull points. Crone + Tyrant (in range of E.Grubs) kill a Wave serpent, should have done 1.63 hull points. Expected: 6.79 Actual 9.
Turn 4, 1 Tyrant fails to hurt a serpent should have done 0.59. Expected: 6.79 Actual 9. Expected: 7.38 Actual 9.
Turn 5, 1 Tyrant (in range of E.Grubs) does 2 hullpoints. Should have done 1.13. Expected: 8.52 Actual 11.

Basically the tyrants got pretty lucky, but only 23% above average. It just seemed flashy.

^ I love this. I'm so glad someone had the time both to watch and record his findings. I know personally I do not have his luck, but I'll go on breathing knowing his rolls weren't "that" lucky and was only 23% over the expected.

Example of MY luck: 5 Zoans deep strike from pod in front arc of Imperial Knight. Guess where his shield is going (I wanted his side arcs to be shieldless against my Flyrants' dakka).

All 5 hit! Five 3+ rolls on my BS!
4 pens and 1 glance! BOOYAH!
All five shots get deflected by his 4++ invuln.

Well played, Imperial Knight. Well played.

That's not bad luck at all, that's a misplayed rule. Imperial Knight change their shield during the Shooting phase, while Zoanthropes resolve their shooting attacks during the psychic phase, before the shooting phase. Therefore, Imperial Knights can't change the facing of their shield until after you've blown him up with Zoeys.

Basically, you got screwed there. :/

 Frozocrone wrote:
Just think you were unlucky Saythings. Knights are a tricky foe for Tyranids to take down (it's also helpful that Knights can't really do much to our ace Flyrants)

On the subject of luck, here's mine:

One ripper base in CC with Riptide.
Ripper attacks, hits once. Roll to wound, gets the 6 required Riptide fails the 2+ armour save! No worries has FnP. Fails the FnP!

Right, time to get vengeance on those Rippers. Rolls a 1,1,2 to hit. Then rolls a 9 for Ld. End result? Ends up being overrun by the lowly Ripper Swarm.

It was a good day to be a Tyranid player.

That's...amazing.

My luck story: 2 Zoanthropes fire Warp Lance at Relic Sicaran. Successful, but periled. Takes off 1 of 2 remaining hull points. Roll on peril chart, roll a 6 on the Zoa, go berserk mode and run at the Relic Sicaran. Hit it with SMASH, end up being successful and taking the last hull point off terminating the Relic Sicaran. He was pissed to say the least.

TL;DR Zoanthrope rage periled, smacked Relic Sicaran with fleshy head sac, destroyed the Sicaran.

 morlakii wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Just think you were unlucky Saythings. Knights are a tricky foe for Tyranids to take down (it's also helpful that Knights can't really do much to our ace Flyrants)

On the subject of luck, here's mine:

One ripper base in CC with Riptide.
Ripper attacks, hits once. Roll to wound, gets the 6 required Riptide fails the 2+ armour save! No worries has FnP. Fails the FnP!

Right, time to get vengeance on those Rippers. Rolls a 1,1,2 to hit. Then rolls a 9 for Ld. End result? Ends up being overrun by the lowly Ripper Swarm.

It was a good day to be a Tyranid player.

That's...amazing.

My luck story: 2 Zoanthropes fire Warp Lance at Relic Sicaran. Successful, but periled. Takes off 1 of 2 remaining hull points. Roll on peril chart, roll a 6 on the Zoa, go berserk mode and run at the Relic Sicaran. Hit it with SMASH, end up being successful and taking the last hull point off terminating the Relic Sicaran. He was pissed to say the least.

TL;DR Zoanthrope rage periled, smacked Relic Sicaran with fleshy head sac, destroyed the Sicaran.

The only thing better than killing a riptide is watching one of those big lugs jet packing off the table in fear


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although ID'ing it in close combat is close second. "He was there, unscratched like 1 second ago. . .":?


(end thread derail/riptide hate)

Sky Slasher Swarm:

Purpose:
The Sky Slasher Swarm has three main purposes; screening, light infantry hunting, and Monster hunting. While the Sky Slasher Swarm is highly comparable to the more commonly seen gargoyle there are a few discrepancies that give the Sky Slasher Swarm a slight edge, specifically in upgrade costs and damage output.

Biomorphs:
-Spinefists: The Sky Slasher Swarm is the absolute best creature in the codex to take this biomorph do to it's natural speed and attack characteristic. The spinefist is easily the best upgrade for this creature as it's meager profile becomes much stronger with an effective 24" range and 56% hit rate. (The natural Twin-Linking of the weapon greatly offsets the natural ballistic skill of the Swarm. This biomorph makes the Sky Slasher Swarm perfect for fighting T3 enemies, which unfortunately for this unit the Tyranid codex has no innate need for this niche.

-Toxin Sacs: This biomorph allows Sky Slasher Swarms to handle Monstrous Creatures. With the speed of sky slashers it becomes much easier to catch and tarpit enemy MCs while stripping wounds off them due to the amount of poison attacks put out by this unit. Once more, fighting monstrous creatures is a role unneeded by most Tyranid lists.

-Adrenal Glands: While this biomorph increases the speed of the Swarm to the level of Raveners, the natural ability of the Sky Slasher Swarm to win fights through attrition is not aided by this biomorph. While Adrenal Glandsndo allow this creature to wreck light vehicles through glances, it does not even allow the unit to do so efficiently. For its current cost, this upgrade should be avoided.

--------------

While the Sky Slasher Swarm excels in targetting light infantry and tarpitting MCs, this creature does not generally see play due to the natural ability of the Tyranid codex to handle such threats. Where the Sky Slasher does shine is in its ability to screen for other units. The height and shape of modelling three flying rippers to a base allows the model to recieve and grant cover much more easier than any other screening unit you can purchase in the book. The unit's ability to ignore terrain and its natural speed also lend to this purpose.

Grades:
B- (stock), C+ (Spinefists) C (Toxin Sacs)

 Frozocrone wrote:
Just think you were unlucky Saythings. Knights are a tricky foe for Tyranids to take down (it's also helpful that Knights can't really do much to our ace Flyrants)

On the subject of luck, here's mine:

One ripper base in CC with Riptide.
Ripper attacks, hits once. Roll to wound, gets the 6 required Riptide fails the 2+ armour save! No worries has FnP. Fails the FnP!

Right, time to get vengeance on those Rippers. Rolls a 1,1,2 to hit. Then rolls a 9 for Ld. End result? Ends up being overrun by the lowly Ripper Swarm.

It was a good day to be a Tyranid player.

"Nothing more creepy than a Tyrant doing a "Happy Dance" "Brrrr"

 ductvader wrote:
Sky Slasher Swarm:

Purpose:
The Sky Slasher Swarm has three main purposes; screening, light infantry hunting, and Monster hunting. While the Sky Slasher Swarm is highly comparable to the more commonly seen gargoyle there are a few discrepancies that give the Sky Slasher Swarm a slight edge, specifically in upgrade costs and damage output.

Biomorphs:
-Spinefists: The Sky Slasher Swarm is the absolute best creature in the codex to take this biomorph do to it's natural speed and attack characteristic. The spinefist is easily the best upgrade for this creature as it's meager profile becomes much stronger with an effective 24" range and 56% hit rate. (The natural Twin-Linking of the weapon greatly offsets the natural ballistic skill of the Swarm. This biomorph makes the Sky Slasher Swarm perfect for fighting T3 enemies, which unfortunately for this unit the Tyranid codex has no innate need for this niche.

-Toxin Sacs: This biomorph allows Sky Slasher Swarms to handle Monstrous Creatures. With the speed of sky slashers it becomes much easier to catch and tarpit enemy MCs while stripping wounds off them due to the amount of poison attacks put out by this unit. Once more, fighting monstrous creatures is a role unneeded by most Tyranid lists.

-Adrenal Glands: While this biomorph increases the speed of the Swarm to the level of Raveners, the natural ability of the Sky Slasher Swarm to win fights through attrition is not aided by this biomorph. While Adrenal Glandsndo allow this creature to wreck light vehicles through glances, it does not even allow the unit to do so efficiently. For its current cost, this upgrade should be avoided.

--------------

While the Sky Slasher Swarm excels in targetting light infantry and tarpitting MCs, this creature does not generally see play due to the natural ability of the Tyranid codex to handle such threats. Where the Sky Slasher does shine is in its ability to screen for other units. The height and shape of modelling three flying rippers to a base allows the model to recieve and grant cover much more easier than any other screening unit you can purchase in the book. The unit's ability to ignore terrain and its natural speed also lend to this purpose.

Grades:
B- (stock), C+ (Spinefists) C (Toxin Sacs)

Raveners can also take spinefists and are generally better in every way.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Sky Slasher Swarm:

Purpose:
The Sky Slasher Swarm has three main purposes; screening, light infantry hunting, and Monster hunting. While the Sky Slasher Swarm is highly comparable to the more commonly seen gargoyle there are a few discrepancies that give the Sky Slasher Swarm a slight edge, specifically in upgrade costs and damage output.

Biomorphs:
-Spinefists: The Sky Slasher Swarm is the absolute best creature in the codex to take this biomorph do to it's natural speed and attack characteristic. The spinefist is easily the best upgrade for this creature as it's meager profile becomes much stronger with an effective 24" range and 56% hit rate. (The natural Twin-Linking of the weapon greatly offsets the natural ballistic skill of the Swarm. This biomorph makes the Sky Slasher Swarm perfect for fighting T3 enemies, which unfortunately for this unit the Tyranid codex has no innate need for this niche.

-Toxin Sacs: This biomorph allows Sky Slasher Swarms to handle Monstrous Creatures. With the speed of sky slashers it becomes much easier to catch and tarpit enemy MCs while stripping wounds off them due to the amount of poison attacks put out by this unit. Once more, fighting monstrous creatures is a role unneeded by most Tyranid lists.

-Adrenal Glands: While this biomorph increases the speed of the Swarm to the level of Raveners, the natural ability of the Sky Slasher Swarm to win fights through attrition is not aided by this biomorph. While Adrenal Glandsndo allow this creature to wreck light vehicles through glances, it does not even allow the unit to do so efficiently. For its current cost, this upgrade should be avoided.

--------------

While the Sky Slasher Swarm excels in targetting light infantry and tarpitting MCs, this creature does not generally see play due to the natural ability of the Tyranid codex to handle such threats. Where the Sky Slasher does shine is in its ability to screen for other units. The height and shape of modelling three flying rippers to a base allows the model to recieve and grant cover much more easier than any other screening unit you can purchase in the book. The unit's ability to ignore terrain and its natural speed also lend to this purpose.

Grades:
B- (stock), C+ (Spinefists) C (Toxin Sacs)

Raveners can also take spinefists and are generally better in every way.

They aren't cheaper.

pinecone77 wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Just think you were unlucky Saythings. Knights are a tricky foe for Tyranids to take down (it's also helpful that Knights can't really do much to our ace Flyrants)

On the subject of luck, here's mine:

One ripper base in CC with Riptide.
Ripper attacks, hits once. Roll to wound, gets the 6 required Riptide fails the 2+ armour save! No worries has FnP. Fails the FnP!

Right, time to get vengeance on those Rippers. Rolls a 1,1,2 to hit. Then rolls a 9 for Ld. End result? Ends up being overrun by the lowly Ripper Swarm.

It was a good day to be a Tyranid player.

"Nothing more creepy than a Tyrant doing a "Happy Dance" "Brrrr"

My apologies, I was just extremely happy at that battle that I didn't care about the score in the end (won 11-0 but still). Agreed with my opponent never to talk about it with mutual friends, but hey, I don't think he's on DakkaDakka

Gargs obviously outweigh them in durability, but I'm curious what Skyslashers can do offensively. In equal points, anyone capable of doing statistics could maybe compare Skyslashers to Shrikes and Gargs?

Yay! My 2 Tyrannocyte/Sporocysts, 1 Toxicrene/Maleceptors And a shield of Baal :
Leviathan had been arrive!

Hmm... Which should I build?

Hmm.

Other thoughts: Hypertoxic Node Hive Tyrant with a Miasma Cannon? If I'm reading it right, that would benefit from Hypertoxic too...

Taking that plus a heavy biocannon of some variety makes for a nice shooty tyrant.

locarno24 wrote:
Hmm.

Other thoughts: Hypertoxic Node Hive Tyrant with a Miasma Cannon? If I'm reading it right, that would benefit from Hypertoxic too...

Taking that plus a heavy biocannon of some variety makes for a nice shooty tyrant.

Either Devourers or the Stranglethorn Cannon to match the range. Miasma Cannon is only good against nonvehicles, so might as well double down.

I always thought it was funny that a Tyrant couldn't take Double Venom Cannons, Stranglethorns, or a Venom/Strangle combo, but they can take any of them with a Miasma Cannon which is more or less like a third variant of the long-range biocannons.

 jifel wrote:

Saythings wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

Here's 40k Brawls latest rep making use of the Tyrannocytes, leviathan detatchment and fighter ace upgrade vs serpant spam.

Please enjoy!

Spoiler:

Interesting. Tyrants demolished the serpents. It ran counter to my experience, so I tracked it a bit.

Shooting Devourers at a front or side of a serpent should do 1.78 hull points, but with holo fields they jink 2/3 of those away for a net of 0.59 Hull points.
If they do E.Grubs rather than 1 Devourer that goes up to 1.13 hull points.

Turn 1, 2 Tyrants, Kill a serpent with Devourers. Should have done 1.19 Hull points. Another Tyrant does nothing should have done 0.59 Hull points. Expected: 1.78 Actual 3.
Turn 2, 2 Tyrants kill a serpent (in range of E.grubs). Should have done 2.26 Hull points. Also, the Tyrannocyte shot at dire avengers instead of a Serpent which was closer. Expected: 4.04 Actual 6.
Turn 3, 1 Tyrant kills a serpent (in range of E.grubs), Should have done 1.13 Hull points. Crone + Tyrant (in range of E.Grubs) kill a Wave serpent, should have done 1.63 hull points. Expected: 6.79 Actual 9.
Turn 4, 1 Tyrant fails to hurt a serpent should have done 0.59. Expected: 6.79 Actual 9. Expected: 7.38 Actual 9.
Turn 5, 1 Tyrant (in range of E.Grubs) does 2 hullpoints. Should have done 1.13. Expected: 8.52 Actual 11.

Basically the tyrants got pretty lucky, but only 23% above average. It just seemed flashy.

^ I love this. I'm so glad someone had the time both to watch and record his findings. I know personally I do not have his luck, but I'll go on breathing knowing his rolls weren't "that" lucky and was only 23% over the expected.

Example of MY luck: 5 Zoans deep strike from pod in front arc of Imperial Knight. Guess where his shield is going (I wanted his side arcs to be shieldless against my Flyrants' dakka).

All 5 hit! Five 3+ rolls on my BS!
4 pens and 1 glance! BOOYAH!
All five shots get deflected by his 4++ invuln.

Well played, Imperial Knight. Well played.

That's not bad luck at all, that's a misplayed rule. Imperial Knight change their shield during the Shooting phase, while Zoanthropes resolve their shooting attacks during the psychic phase, before the shooting phase. Therefore, Imperial Knights can't change the facing of their shield until after you've blown him up with Zoeys.

Basically, you got screwed there. :/

Wow, that's a good point. My opponent and I are in the same gaming group and both new to Knights. Was 100% not intentional, but does the shield from last turn still remain? Like Turn 1 shielding last until his Turn 2 shooting? If he doesn't declare any shields Turn1, my zoans will never be able to be shield from?

Thanks for pointing that out though! Much appreciated.

Termagants:

About: Termagants are the most basic troops available to Tyranids. They are Iconic, but not a top tier choice.

Advantages/Disadvantages:
Instinctive Behavior(Lurk) - With leadership 6, if they get out of synapse normally they are running.
Cheap - Only 4 points per model
Mobility - They Move 6, and they don't have fleet without expensive upgrades.
Deployment Aid - Enough gants can bubble wrap you for drop pods. Gargoyes and hormagants are better at this.
Required Troop - Unfortunately the other options are better.
Dakka - The devourer version can put out quite a bit. Not recommended without upgrades.
Tervigon unlocker - Requires 30.
Outflankable - If a Hive Tyrant takes Hive commander you can outflank one troop.
Tervigon-a-phobic - If a nearby Tervigon dies, bad things happen.

Wargear:
Fleshborers - The basic weapon.
Spinefists - A free upgrade. They are better against Toughness 3 and 6, and in overwatch. Worse against Toughness 5 and 7, and AV10.
Spike Rifle - A free upgrade. More range, but not as good as other options.
Devourers - Doubles the cost but tripples the firepower and increase the range. It makes them pricy, and so a mixed squad with ablative wounds is recommended.
Stranglewebs - With only strenght 2, this is generally not worth 5 points.

Biomorphs:
Adrenal Glands - Give's you fleet and furious charge, but increases the cost by 1/3.
Toxin Sacs - Allows them to threaten MC's in assault, but termagants are not an assaulty unit.

Common Builds:
Min Troop - 10 Termagants (Fleshborers or Spinefists) - Fills a basic troop requirement.
Dakka Gants - 20 Termagants (10 Spinefists, 10 Devourers) - A basic unit that can exert board control and threaten Infantry and even some MC's.
Backdoor Gants - 20 Termagants (10 Fleshborers, 10 Devourers) - A surprisingly good anti-vehicle choice. Either outflank them via hive commander or deep strike them via a Tyrannocyte (No blasts or you will take friendly fire)
Devil Gants - 20 Termagants (Devourers) - Produces many, many shots, but is expensive, and the firepower decreases quickly once they start taking fire.
Tyranid Blob - 30 Termagants (Spinefists) - A 30 wound OS unit that can tapit things.
Tervigon Key - 30 Termagants (Fleshborers). Tervigon
Flexible Backdoor Action - 30 Termagants (15 Fleshborers, 15 devouers), Tervigon (E.Grubs, Crushing Claws, possibly other upgrades) Tyrant (Hive Commander). You get to pick if you want to send the Tervigon or the Gants to the backfield.

Grades: Min Troop: C+, Dakka Gants: B+, Backdoor Gants: B+, Devil Gants: C+, Tyranid Blob: C, Tervigon Key: D, Flexible Backdoor Action: B-

Just speculating here, but what do you guys think the new Broodlord's abilities might be? I would love a broodlord HQ option - and if he has the warlord trait that grants preferred enemy, a large infiltrating blob of genestealers (that trail back to a malanthrope for shrouded) might just start making its way back into lists. I'm also intrigued to see what (if any) special rules are given to the other models in the upcoming box set.

Thanks, guys, for the unit reviews. I will update this thread a little later today. Right now, I've got a battle report to finish writing.


@tag8833

BTW, do you want to give a grade to your termagants? Don't necessarily have to grade everything, but possibly just the most common configurations (which will probably by vanilla and (mixed) devilgants)?

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Just speculating here, but what do you guys think the new Broodlord's abilities might be? I would love a broodlord HQ option - and if he has the warlord trait that grants preferred enemy, a large infiltrating blob of genestealers (that trail back to a malanthrope for shrouded) might just start making its way back into lists. I'm also intrigued to see what (if any) special rules are given to the other models in the upcoming box set.

BTW, Broodlord doesn't have to be HQ to be your Warlord currently.

 jy2 wrote:
@tag8833

BTW, do you want to give a grade to your termagants? Don't necessarily have to grade everything, but possibly just the most common configurations (which will probably by vanilla and (mixed) devilgants)?

Added some grades. Overall gants are probably a C or C+, there are just certain very effect builds.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Just speculating here, but what do you guys think the new Broodlord's abilities might be? I would love a broodlord HQ option - and if he has the warlord trait that grants preferred enemy, a large infiltrating blob of genestealers (that trail back to a malanthrope for shrouded) might just start making its way back into lists. I'm also intrigued to see what (if any) special rules are given to the other models in the upcoming box set.

I'd expect him to operate in the army as a whole much like the FIreblade (If an IC, or changed at all). As you stated, just upgrading stealers themselves.

tag8833 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
@tag8833

BTW, do you want to give a grade to your termagants? Don't necessarily have to grade everything, but possibly just the most common configurations (which will probably by vanilla and (mixed) devilgants)?

Added some grades. Overall gants are probably a C or C+, there are just certain very effect builds.

Personally, I think that the "Tervigon key" are better than you give credit for, and here is why. They are a threat to the more aggressive, elite units like wraithknights, dreadknights, imperial knights, daemon princes and other MC's. Why? Because your opponent doesn't want to get his uber-unit tarpitted by your much cheaper gants. Basically, they negate the board control aspects of these units and actually prevents them from taking the middle. And if the gants can assault one of those units near an objective, they can still take the objective while preventing the enemy unit from doing so (due to ObSec). Also, such a large unit is quite durable with malanthrope/venomthrope protection and if you really need to, Catalyst for FNP as well. This makes them quite good as a bullet-catcher unit if your opponent decides to shoot at it.

Oh, and here's another role where they are good at....bubble-wrapping (they are the cheapest Tyranid unit for this). Especially useful in protecting bastions from drop-podding meltas or whatever else you need protection from.

Anecdote: Once walked a blob of 30 gants up through a ruin...catalyst, venomthrope. for a 2+ / 5+ FnP directly into 5 Centurions. He basically had one turn to kill as many of them as possible before assault and unloaded all the Grav/Bolter Centurions into them...

...lost a termagant...

Ate his unit.

 jy2 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
@tag8833

BTW, do you want to give a grade to your termagants? Don't necessarily have to grade everything, but possibly just the most common configurations (which will probably by vanilla and (mixed) devilgants)?

Added some grades. Overall gants are probably a C or C+, there are just certain very effect builds.

Personally, I think that the "Tervigon key" are better than you give credit for, and here is why. They are a threat to the more aggressive, elite units like wraithknights, dreadknights, imperial knights, daemon princes and other MC's. Why? Because your opponent doesn't want to get his uber-unit tarpitted by your much cheaper gants. Basically, they negate the board control aspects of these units and actually prevents them from taking the middle. And if the gants can assault one of those units near an objective, they can still take the objective while preventing the enemy unit from doing so (due to ObSec). Also, such a large unit is quite durable with malanthrope/venomthrope protection and if you really need to, Catalyst for FNP as well. This makes them quite good as a bullet-catcher unit if your opponent decides to shoot at it.

Oh, and here's another role where they are good at....bubble-wrapping (they are the cheapest Tyranid unit for this). Especially useful in protecting bastions from drop-podding meltas or whatever else you need protection from.

The Tervigon Key would have been rated better if the Tervigon itself was worth it, and not a threat to the gants. Perhaps I could have done this:
Tyranid Blob - 30 Termagants (Spinefists) - A 30 wound OS unit that can tapit things.
Grade: C

Gargoyles and Hormagants are much better at tarpitting and objective stealing. They can get there, they don't get in the way of your MC's and they can reliably make a charge. I would challenge you to attempt tarpitting and objective stealing with Hormagants for a few games and see how you like it.

As far as deployment bubblewrap, I called that "Deployment Aid" it is certainly a benefit of Termagants. In most cases I would rather take 3 squads of 10 rather than 1 squad of 30 to accomplish the same thing. A squad of 30 Gants is quite a movement hinderance. It can only score one objective and can often be used as a wall by your opponent to bubblewrap their own units.

Nice review Tag, some good info in there.

If you were looking at a pure TAC group of Termagants would this make sense?

30 Termagants (10 Spinefist, 10 Flesh Borers, 10 Devourers)

The way I would run it is you work out if your fists or borers are going to be more effective based on army in front of you and the less effective one becomes meat shield, the effective one becomes second screen, and the devils bring up the rear with their better range and firepower.

These grades need to be worked on. You have some people grading Gants a C and others a Haruspex and Sky Slashers B-...

I concur.

What more would you want a gant to be able to do at 4pts a model?

Well, I think I'd call'em C+, they are good, but can be replaced by others who are just as good. Devourers are twice as expensive, so still in that C to C+ range Spinefists? I like them, but they are not "better"...

In general, if I could Only take Termagants, or Hormagaunts I would take Hormies, and I consider them a strong C...

Here is my take on ratings/grades:

F, only a dang fool would use this!
D, this unit is poor, you should only use it if you have a Good reason.
C, this is a "good" unit.
B, you should use this unit every chance you get!
A, Only a fool does not use this unit!

So Fly'rants? A, not using them requires some justification....etc...

 Zande4 wrote:
These grades need to be worked on. You have some people grading Gants a C and others a Haruspex and Sky Slashers B-...

I think the problem is that the more "specialized" units (not stuff everyone uses like gants) are being written only by people who like them. This is the only conceivable way that I can think of that caused Pyrovores to be higher ranked than Venomthropes, despite the fact that for the same slot and same cost a Venomthrope is immeasurably better, and still falls short of truly great unit status like the Malanthrope.

While I like the idea of having individual reviewers, I think that perhaps a single person should grade the units as far as Letter Grades go. jy2 would be the most obvious choice if we decided to do this, but I think it is important that different people write the actual text, so that people who have actually used the units can comment on them.

(Seriously though, can we drop the Pyros grade a little bit...?)

I didn't give Slashers a B- because I like them though, I don't like them unless I just want to switch things up. It's because...when looking at the unit alone...it deserves it. It's great at what it does. But what it does isn't needed in general Tyranid tactics.