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2014/12/06 17:40:00
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
This battle report is not for the squeamish and includes scenes of swearing, foot-stomping, fist-waving and cruelty to mini's. (However, no actual mini's were harmed in the writing of this report.) If you are looking for a report which shows great narrative, fluffy battles, the finer side of gaming and great comraderie, then LEAVE NOW! If you are looking for no-holds-barred, hardcore, stomp-your-opponent-to-the-mud action, then continue. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
So there's been an influx of material/formations for Tyranids which, in my opinion, have just catapulted them from a middling army all the way up the stratosphere. Tyranids are no longer an afterthought of an army in competitive play. First with the release of the new Forgeworld Tyranid book and accompanying models, then with the release of a plethora of new models (that should have been included with the codex in the very first place!) and now with the release of the Shield of Baal supplement, Tyranids have just shot up the competitive ladder into top-tier territory. Yes, the newest supplement, the Shield of Baal, will be a meta-changing release as it has just injected another top-tier build to the tournament scene.
So why is this book so meta-changing? Because you can run both a normal detachment and the Shield of Baal Hive Fleet Leviathan detachment. What this does is it now allows you to take up to 5 flyrants in tournament play. This is possible for 2 reasons. Firstly, the normal detachment allows you to take 2 HQ's and the Leviathan detachment allows you to take 3 HQ's! Secondly, GW recently released a new troop choice called the Mucolid. This unit satisfies 1 troop slot....for only 15-pts!!! So in a normal + Leviathan detachment, you can fulfill the minimum 5 troop requirements to run this configuration for only a total of 75-pts!!! What the f*ck was GW thinking?!? Only 75-pts to be able to run 5 HQ's (in other words, 5 flyrants)?!?
My hypothesis is that a 5-flyrant list (which I shall call a Pentyrant Tyranid build) is over-powering to most of the armies out there. Tyranids were strong before, but they've always had trouble against the top tournament builds. Well, now the shoe is on the other foot. A pentyrant build is so strong that even other top, tournament armies will have trouble against it. Yes, pentyrant armies will be changing the meta once again. You better bring a lot of skyfire to your Take-All-Comer's tournament list, because if you don't, then you won't be able to handle such an army.
My opponent for this game is my friend and GT-winner, Grant aka "Grant Theft Auto" aka "GTA". He normally runs the seer council, but currently he is testing out a new Eldar army using the Forgeworld super-heavy, the Lynx. He is also trying a new build - he is bringing the Tyrannic War Veterans formation to help shore up a traditional weakness of Eldar, their anti-air. He's only had 2 games so far with his latest army. Both games were against Geoff "InControl" and his triple-flyrant/Swarmlord/Barbed Hierodule tournament Tyranid army. And Grant was able to win both of those games. So I know his list can handle up to 3 flyrants and a gargantuan. However, he's going up against what I feel just may be the quintessential Tyranid build. I hope he's ready for the spanking that I am going to give to his army, because that's what this game is going to be....a rude awakening.
1. Hold Either Objective 1.
2. Hold Either Objective 2.
3. Destroy an enemy unit.
4. Destroy an enemy unit.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
6. Have at least 3 of your scoring units and no enemy scoring units at least partially within your own deployment zone.
Tertiary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each
pinecone77 wrote: I'd guess that Toxic still provides value vs Chapter Masters and the like, but I think that Tarpitting is the better way to handle those bums. Besides we were talking SkyTyrant, and that has swarms of Gargoyles attached.
Unless the Chapter Master is on a Bike (T5) Toxin Sac's don't help you at all compared to Old Adversary. You wound on a 2+ and are rerolling ones. Against a Chapter Master on a Bike, you are still better off with Old Advesary, rather than Toxin Sacs, but the difference is very small.
Toxin Sac's aren't a bad choice, but unless you are facing a very T6+ multi-wound model with Eternal Warrior, you are better off with an extra 5 points for Old Adversary.
2014/12/06 18:06:16
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Deshkar wrote: Been running 4 flyrants with double pod dakka fex and 3 lictors.
I must admit I absolutely love Lictors for maelstorm games, to do all my back and midfield scoring while allowing my dakka beasts to focus on the frontlines.
Yeah, it's a strong list. With quad-tyrants, anything else you add after that is like gravy.
the shrouded lord wrote: so I finally gotten back into my ''nids, and finished re-re-painting my tyrant guard. anyone have any advice for using them? I was thinking of having them charge down the center (without the tyrant) of the board as a distraction.
You can give them crushing claws and watch them surprise your opponent when they run into a tank. Just make sure you add other "threats" in the army to take the heat off of those tyrant guards.
Redemption wrote: Just got my Deathstorm box in, took a quick scan of the units therein. Here's the nids:
Redemption, you may want to consider putting those scans in spoilers before they get taken down. It also helps to unclutter the thread.
L0rdF1end wrote: Played my Summoning star with allied Nids.
Allied Nids are so awesome, even when they are Apoc.
What I took had such a small footprint it was never issue even after summoning 600 points onto the board.
This combined with a Screamerstar was nice because I have decent movement and can summon literally all over the table unless the star is pinned down.
Taking allied Apoc Nids is very viable I feel. With a Flyrant and a Hive crone you have anti air covered plus a real shooting threat which is hard to get with Daemons.
The Crone + Flyrant is pretty much an expensive Daemon Prince.
I played against the Skytyrant and didn't really think much of it. I ate most of the Gargoyles with Daemonettes and the combat just got drawn out over multiple turns. I don't see the value in Skytyrant currently, its too easy for a lot of armies to strip away the ablative wounds. Perhaps not with 60 Gargoyles but that's getting a little expensive.
You think this is good, wait til you try running Daemons with the Leviathan formation! Goodness! Leviathan has just opened up so many excellent builds. The only problem is that they are so good that you are going to see a lot of other armies now run the Leviathan formation as well!
Skytyrant is turning out to be better than I thought, especially when run by a savvy veteran. Don't write them off yet, especially against Daemons. They have a massive footprint and if you're not careful, the Tyranid player can force death through multi-assaults and Daemonic Instability. Anyways, I am going to test out the Skytyrant formation some more.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/06 20:03:45
L0rdF1end wrote: Played my Summoning star with allied Nids.
Allied Nids are so awesome, even when they are Apoc.
What I took had such a small footprint it was never issue even after summoning 600 points onto the board.
This combined with a Screamerstar was nice because I have decent movement and can summon literally all over the table unless the star is pinned down.
Taking allied Apoc Nids is very viable I feel. With a Flyrant and a Hive crone you have anti air covered plus a real shooting threat which is hard to get with Daemons.
The Crone + Flyrant is pretty much an expensive Daemon Prince.
I played against the Skytyrant and didn't really think much of it. I ate most of the Gargoyles with Daemonettes and the combat just got drawn out over multiple turns. I don't see the value in Skytyrant currently, its too easy for a lot of armies to strip away the ablative wounds. Perhaps not with 60 Gargoyles but that's getting a little expensive.
Cool to hear. I was actually hammering out a similar list last night, and will hopefully get to test it tomorrow. Might finally write a battle report like I've been meaning to do forever. Here's the list for shoots and googles:
Still torn on whether or not to do basically the same thing except with LoC and Tzeentch Prince, but I like the 2+ jink, ID, and the high T of the GUO
I've messed about with the 2+ jink quite a bit, it's good but not fantastic, too much ignore cover around, also Screamer star needs Fateweaver to make it reliable.
I think the only way to do it and make it competitive in current meta is to go daemons primary. Most tournaments I go to aren't 2 CADS, normally 1 CAD + Ally/Formation.
2014/12/06 19:17:42
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Ok, this is just a brief overview and my opinion of the new Deathstorm Tyranid formations:
Spoiler:
Children of Cryptus:B
This formation can actually be quite good as long as you surround it with complementary units. DO NOT run them as a solitary threat. They really don't have the durability to survive focused enemy firepower. However, run them in a Maximum Threat Overload (MTO) type of list and they may actually surprise you. If left unchecked, they can devastate your opponent's army. Right now, they may have the element of surprise, but once your opponent plays them even once, he's going to go after them. Stealth and Prefered Enemy makes them really good.
I can see myself running this formation. Look for it in future battle reports.
Phodian Hive Warriors:D
Bah! Just what we don't need. Another close combat specialist unit that is slow as heck. But at 170-pt for the unit and 255-pts with the pod, they are a huge points investment for a unit that most likely won't ever make back their points. The problems with this unit are many. Being T4 with only 4+ saves, they also lack the resiliency to survive prolonged enemy fire. The only viable way to run them is by putting them in a tyrannocyte and in a MTO type of list. Also, they cannot deal with transports reliably, which in essence makes them cannon fodder. The unit is small so it makes it much harder for them to pull off multi-assaults (that is how you can survive against MSU units - by staying locked in combat). Their volume of attacks are too little compared to other assault units out there at around the same cost. The only time I would even consider running this formation is as a tax in order to run the Phodian Annihilation Swarm.
The Beast of Phodia:C
Not a great formation, but it is passable. Personally, I would not run this formation by itself, but as part of the better Phodian Annihilation Swarm. The BoP (Beast of Phodia) does have value in a Tyranid army as mainly a anti-horde support and as a carnifex, he is always a threat to any and all vehicles. He is somewhat pricey, but not much more so than a similarly-configured carnifex (just 10-pt more for It Will Not Die). Put him in a tyrannocyte and now you've got options with how you want to run him.
Phodian Annihilation Swarm:B-
I actually like this formation. Stealth/shroud and Prefered Enemy for all the units in the formation? What's not to like about that? The true gem here are infiltrating genestealers with Shroud and Prefered Enemy. However, the price you pay for the formation is rather steep. You have to take the near-worthless Hive Warriors formation and the mediocre Beast of Phodia, and to make them actually work, you need to consider spending points to get 1-2 tyrannocyte spores as well. If you build your Tyranid army to support this formation, you could find them doing well. Otherwise, they won't make back their costs. Now I would have actually rated this formation higher, but the steepness of its price and the tax of one of its formations is what prevents me from recommending this formation with flying colors.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/06 20:04:09
Since people have been getting info on their list here I'll do the same.
I like to get some feed back on it which list is more competitive. I am taking one of these list to tshift in seattle. Incontroll, Jy2, and some other good players are showing up. And I like to make a respectable showing and even have a chance to stomp one or more of them
This list gives me some great shooting options. The Lan is a proven formation that works well. With the Barbed Hierodule opening tanks and the like I should have a target rich envierment for the LAN and the tyrants. The Droppoding Fex’s will alow me t put pressure in areas I need to. I like the concept of this list but I have yet to play test it.
What would I have to worry about with this list? Is the lack of bubble wrap a concern?
Barbed Hierodule (565pts)
This list lets me hold obj. better and still hits like a tone of bricks. With the crone helping out it should handle IK and Serpent spam well I think.
I do play aggressive. The first list is better at playing a Trapdoor style. While list 2 is a kind of all or nothing style. Thoughts or ideas on how to improve or what list would give me fits are always welcome//needed
2014/12/06 21:01:55
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Ok, the weekend is here, so I'm taking a quick break from finals studying to write another review:
Tyrannofex (by jifel)
Spoiler:
The Tyrannofex is traditionally one of the less appreciated Heavy Support choices, and yet has received a huge boost from the new inclusion of the Tyrannocyte. His role is that of a tank, as he will be the toughest bug on the table that doesn't fill a LOW slot. T6 and 6 wounds are all fun, but the true value of the TFex is in his 2+ armor save, the only one available in the Tyranid codex. For a dollar and three quarters, he comes base with a strength 6 ap 4 Torrent flamer and 4 strength 5, ap 4 shots at 18". Although he has decent firepower, great for clearing out infantry, he doesn't pack a massive punch for his points. However, he does have several good upgrades that I consider great values.
Electroshock Grubs: First off, he can buy Electroshock Grubs for the same price as a Meltagun, a fantastic deal that gives him respectable anti vehicle firepower (thanks to Haywire) without detracting at all from his Anti Infantry firepower, as it is still a Flame Template at Strength and AP 5, and therefore will threaten plenty of troops.
Shreddershard Beetles: Again, flame templates are good as they add to his role, and rending helps vs low saves, but it has less versatility than EG as it can't really do much to vehicles.
Dessicator Larvae: Wounding on a 2+ is great, but again this takes away from his versatility. The TFex doesn't really need more anti infantry power, but threatening vehicles is nice, so I hate to buy anything else.
Adrenal Glands: For 15 points I would also consider adding Adrenal Glands to him, as he will often be running early to get in range of his guns, and also it gives him much better anti vehicle power in assault. The TFex is not particularly impressive as an assault beast, but the basic TMC statline plus a tough armor save means he can tie up and eventually chew through most basic units in the game. Still, I would keep him away from some of the beefier units in the game, especially those with AP 2. But, the strength 7 on the charge, with 4 attacks, is enough to cripple or kill most Rear AV 10 vehicles, averaging about 2 Hull points, with AP 2 giving explosion potential. Combined with his Haywire template, he can easily threaten anything with an Armor Value.
Toxin Sacks: Poison for a Melta in points isn't bad at all, but is hardly needed. He doesn't have enough attacks to threaten a High toughness beast with this, and rerolling ones isn't woth the points against small things. Thanks to the 7th edition poison nerf I would say this upgrade is very unnecessary.
Regeneration: The final upgrade I would consider for him is Regeneration. Although it is pricey, the TFex is our toughest MC and is the least likely to be killed in a single turn, making him the most likely bug to use Regen and therefore the best to put it on. I wouldn't say it is required at all, but if you want your TFex to draw fire it is a good way to ensure he sticks around for a while.
Acid Blood: As is the usual, this upgrade is overpriced and rarely useful. Most of his lost wounds will come from shooting as he will rarely see combat, and even then a single hit will rarely help against something beefy enough to take down a Tyrannofex. Pass!
Rupture Cannon: For slightly less than a Rhino, you can replace his Flamer template with a 2 shot Strength 10, ap 4 gun at 48" range. As you can imagine, this changes his role drastically from anti infantry boss to long ranged anti vehicle. It's a nice idea, but at BS 3 I would honestly pass on this. Most of the Tyranid "good" units these days rely on closing with the enemy and overwhelming them with threats, and so I would try to use the TFex in a role to support that instead of as a gunline unit. He can remove hullpoints but the poor AP means he can't kill tough units or blow up vehicles, and there are much more efficient ways to strip Hull Points for Nids, thanks to their abundance of Haywire weaponry.
Fleshborer Hive: For a measly nickel, you can replace the Acid Spray with 20 fleshborer shots. Although "20 shots" sounds nice, it really isn't. An average of 10 hits at 12" range, strength 4 ap 5, or a torrent flamer with better strength, ap and ignores cover? I know what I want to take. The fleshborer hive is just laughably outclassed as it relies on the poor BS of a TFex to function. It kills 1.67 marines on average, while the Acid Spray gets the same results if it hits 6 marines (manageable with Torrent) and is better against 4+ saves, ignores cover, and is longer range. Avoid this one.
Finally, a Tyannofex may be put in a Tyrannocyte, our new Drop Pod. Personally I think this is an excellent choice as it allows him to get upfield fast, and he may be positioned where his weapons will work best and their short range isn't a problem. With 2 flamer templates with EG, he can murder light squads or can do some damage to vehicles (especially those damn wave Serpents...). Then, he becomes an in-your-face threat that is very tough to remove and has some decent assault ability, which makes him a great distraction unit.
Grades: A- (in a Pod, with EG) B- (on foot) D+ (on foot with Rupture Cannon) F (Fleshborer Hive)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/07 04:09:39
2014/12/06 21:20:56
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Ok, this is just a brief overview and my opinion of the new Deathstorm Tyranid formations:
Spoiler:
Children of Cryptus:B
This formation can actually be quite good as long as you surround it with complementary units. DO NOT run them as a solitary threat. They really don't have the durability to survive focused enemy firepower. However, run them in a Maximum Threat Overload (MTO) type of list and they may actually surprise you. If left unchecked, they can devastate your opponent's army. Right now, they may have the element of surprise, but once your opponent plays them even once, he's going to go after them. Stealth and Prefered Enemy makes them really good.
I can see myself running this formation. Look for it in future battle reports.
Phodian Hive Warriors:D
Bah! Just what we don't need. Another close combat specialist unit that is slow as heck. But at 170-pt for the unit and 255-pts with the pod, they are a huge points investment for a unit that most likely won't ever make back their points. The problems with this unit are many. Being T4 with only 4+ saves, they also lack the resiliency to survive prolonged enemy fire. The only viable way to run them is by putting them in a tyrannocyte and in a MTO type of list. Also, they cannot deal with transports reliably, which in essence makes them cannon fodder. The unit is small so it makes it much harder for them to pull off multi-assaults (that is how you can survive against MSU units - by staying locked in combat). Their volume of attacks are too little compared to other assault units out there at around the same cost. The only time I would even consider running this formation is as a tax in order to run the Phodian Annihilation Swarm.
The Beast of Phodia:C
Not a great formation, but it is passable. Personally, I would not run this formation by itself, but as part of the better Phodian Annihilation Swarm. The BoP (Beast of Phodia) does have value in a Tyranid army as mainly a anti-horde support and as a carnifex, he is always a threat to any and all vehicles. He is somewhat pricey, but not much more so than a similarly-configured carnifex (just 10-pt more for It Will Not Die). Put him in a tyrannocyte and now you've got options with how you want to run him.
Phodian Annihilation Swarm:B-
I actually like this formation. Stealth/shroud and Prefered Enemy for all the units in the formation? What's not to like about that? The true gem here are infiltrating genestealers with Shroud and Prefered Enemy. However, the price you pay for the formation is rather steep. You have to take the near-worthless Hive Warriors formation and the mediocre Beast of Phodia, and to make them actually work, you need to consider spending points to get 1-2 tyrannocyte spores as well. If you build your Tyranid army to support this formation, you could find them doing well. Otherwise, they won't make back their costs. Now I would have actually rated this formation higher, but the steepness of its price and the tax of one of its formations is what prevents me from recommending this formation with flying colors.
Nice! I agree with all points, clearly a work of Genius! One minor nit-pick, you should mention the special rule the over kitted Warriors get "Infested Ruins" rather than "pod" the bums, I would just park them in a Ruin, hopefully with an Objective they can secure, and hope someone is fool enough to go after them. They'd still get Stealth from the Mondo Formation, so they would be pretty dang durable.
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2014/12/06 22:29:53
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Nice! I agree with all points, clearly a work of Genius! One minor nit-pick, you should mention the special rule the over kitted Warriors get "Infested Ruins" rather than "pod" the bums, I would just park them in a Ruin, hopefully with an Objective they can secure, and hope someone is fool enough to go after them. They'd still get Stealth from the Mondo Formation, so they would be pretty dang durable.
Thanks.
170-pt is too expensive a unit to just babysit an objective with. And if you do that, then you are wasting one of the most valuble assets of this unit - the ability to assault through ruins at full Initiative. The Infested Ruins special rule really isn't a big deal to me. MC's don't care, nor do units with Move Through Cover. Vehicles and jump infantry/bikes/cavalry already treat terrain as dangerous anyways. The units most affected by this are infantry units who would probably rather just stay in cover anyways.
Now if the Phodian Hive Warriors had a special rule which would let them infiltrate inside any ruins, then we're talking.
I guess another good thing about the Children of Cryptus is that you have to use them as Warlord to get PE - meaning your opponent doesn't StW by shooting down a flyrant. Only problem is it is a bit pricier than the minimum StW denial unit (5 genes and brood for 130). But it has the benefit of being a fairly nasty combat threat (though that goes against StW denial..), and guaranteeing a useful trait as opposed to risking some of the dreadful ones. Anyway, basically I'm pleased to have a use for the 8 ST genes I got very cheap off a friend xD.
Anyway, thanks for the commentary on Reaper VS Maw-claws on the Skytyrant! I have a few more queries.
I'm getting a few more Warrior broods soon and am unsure how to equip the few I will be kitting out with LWBS or RC - basically do I keep the Devourer or swap to ST for the bonus attack? I'm leaning towards Devourers, as I don't plan to shell out for AG (mostly since I'll be running them in a couple of different ways and won't always want it), they might be getting their BS buffed by a Prime, and because I figure Shrikes are a better bet for Assaulty "Warriors". But anything from people with experience trying them is appreciated.
As an aside (unsure if this is the best place to ask) - do the units in my Endless Swarm formation actually get Obj Secured? I'd read online that they do - but upon reading the formations sections in the rulebook I can't see anything that indicates that they would: command benefits seem to only apply to units in the Warlord's detachment?
2014/12/07 00:21:17
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
jifel wrote: Ok, the weekend is here, so I'm taking a quick break from finals studying to write another review:
Tyrannofex (by jifel)
C+ (on foot with Rupture Cannon)
I'm with you all the way until here. If anything is deserving of an F, it is sure the Malaceptor. But if 2 things deserve an F it is the Malaceptor and the Rupture Cannon TFex. 205 points for a model that hits once per turn at S10 AP4 without ignore cover? Awful.
2014/12/07 02:45:25
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
I had 2 interesting games today. Playing a few guys that haven't beat me in quite some time, and so I was looking for a creative way to tank a couple of games. I settled on the concept of Warrior Spam, and then took that a littler farther, and decided to play only T4 models with multiple wounds.
My 2000 point List:
Spoiler:
Tyranid Prime (BS + LW, Maw Claws, AG, FHs, Regen, Toxin Sacs) <- Only model not T4
5 Raveners (Devourers, RCs)
6 Raveners (Deathspitters, RCs)
6 Shrikes (2 with BS + LW + STs, 4 with Devourer + RCs, All had FHs, AGs)
Deathleapers Assassin Brood.
Death Leaper
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Game 1:
Spoiler:
A Tau gunline list that included 1 Ion Tide, 5 large groups of fire warriors, 2 squads of pathfinders, 2 Devilfish, Aegis + Comms, Farsight + Suites deepstriking, and 3 Plasma Suites Deep Striking.
I rolled master of Ambush, and infiltrated the Prime + Warriors, the Venoms, and 2 Zoeys. The Lictors all infiltrated as well. I got first turn and shot up some fire warriors, and managed to kill a squad of pathfinders for 1st blood. Generally I descended on his corner hoping to assault on turn 2.
In his turn he killed 7 of the 8 warriors with the prime, a Zoey, and a Lictor. My turn, I pulled off a massive, massive assault chaining. Grabbing 4 Sqauds of Fire Warriors, a Devilfish, the Riptide, and a Squad of pathfinders. Everything in his army was locked in CC except for the squad of fire warriors that was still embarked in a Devilfish, and the units in reserves. I killed him off his Comms Relay, and only the 3 Suits came in. We were headed for a turn 4 tabling when he conceded.
Tyranid Overwhelming Victory
Game 2:
Spoiler:
The Deathstorm Blood Angels formation with a Grey Knight detachment, and a Space wolf ally. The Grey knights had 7 psilencers spread out over 5 units, including 2 Heavy psilencers on the Nemisis Dread Knight. Also a Dreadnought, and 5 Longfangs shooting Missiles.
I knew from the start that this game was going to go bad for me. Way, Way, Way too much S8+ and Force for my 3 wound T4 list. He tailored to me, and I'm actually somewhat proud of how effectively he did it, I've been working hard trying to teach him how to build an effective list, and this list was not optimized, but very good against what I was bringing.
It was Big Guns, with Hammer and Anvil deployment. Turn 1 I advanced, but only manage to kill 2 long fangs with shooting. I also made a tactical deployment error by deep striking my Lictors. I should have started them on the table. In his turn 1 he managed a 10 inch charge with the Dreadnought into my Shrikes, then the Deathcompany came in. I rolled absolutely abysmally, and lost all of the Shrikes while only killing one Deathcompany.
In my Turn 2 only 2 Lictors came in. They popped the Dreadnought. I charged a Dreadknight with the raveners and did 7 Rends, but he made 4 4+ invuls, and then killed 4 Raveners. My other group of Raveners mixed it up with a big squad of grey Knights, and eventually they more or less killed eachother. Everything that could shot at the Grey Knight Terminators, and did a ton of wounds. 20+, he made all of his 2+ saves, and so I chickened out and didn't assault. On his turn he killed everything but my warriors, and the lictors in reserve. Turn 4, the warriors died, and all I had left were 3 Lictors, but I still had a chance because he was way out of position. I needed 1 Lictor to kill 2 Longfangs in assault, and 1 Lictor to kill 4 Blood claws in assault, and 1 Lictor to take the final wound from a dreadknight. Unfortunately, the Longfangs managed to take the last wound off the lictor in assault, and the Dreadknight made his 4++, so I was left with only 2 Lictors on the board and Conceded.
Rules question: Can a Shrike with Flesh Hooks use them in Assault against a Dreadnought? If so, do I get 1 attack or 2?
2014/12/07 02:57:30
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
jifel wrote: Ok, the weekend is here, so I'm taking a quick break from finals studying to write another review:
Tyrannofex (by jifel)
C+ (on foot with Rupture Cannon)
I'm with you all the way until here. If anything is deserving of an F, it is sure the Malaceptor. But if 2 things deserve an F it is the Malaceptor and the Rupture Cannon TFex. 205 points for a model that hits once per turn at S10 AP4 without ignore cover? Awful.
Not that I disagree with the F grading but the Rupture Cannon is assault 2. I assume you were just going off the fact that the Tyrannofex is BS3 though? Also there are plenty of other grades that are more poorly thought out than that one. The Sky-Slashers are a prime example.
2014/12/07 03:17:06
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
jifel wrote: Ok, the weekend is here, so I'm taking a quick break from finals studying to write another review:
Tyrannofex (by jifel)
C+ (on foot with Rupture Cannon)
I'm with you all the way until here. If anything is deserving of an F, it is sure the Malaceptor. But if 2 things deserve an F it is the Malaceptor and the Rupture Cannon TFex. 205 points for a model that hits once per turn at S10 AP4 without ignore cover? Awful.
Not that I disagree with the F grading but the Rupture Cannon is assault 2. I assume you were just going off the fact that the Tyrannofex is BS3 though? Also there are plenty of other grades that are more poorly thought out than that one. The Sky-Slashers are a prime example.
Assault 2, BS3 = 1 hit per turn.
2014/12/07 03:53:49
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
L0rdF1end wrote: Played my Summoning star with allied Nids.
Allied Nids are so awesome, even when they are Apoc.
What I took had such a small footprint it was never issue even after summoning 600 points onto the board.
This combined with a Screamerstar was nice because I have decent movement and can summon literally all over the table unless the star is pinned down.
Taking allied Apoc Nids is very viable I feel. With a Flyrant and a Hive crone you have anti air covered plus a real shooting threat which is hard to get with Daemons.
The Crone + Flyrant is pretty much an expensive Daemon Prince.
I played against the Skytyrant and didn't really think much of it. I ate most of the Gargoyles with Daemonettes and the combat just got drawn out over multiple turns. I don't see the value in Skytyrant currently, its too easy for a lot of armies to strip away the ablative wounds. Perhaps not with 60 Gargoyles but that's getting a little expensive.
Cool to hear. I was actually hammering out a similar list last night, and will hopefully get to test it tomorrow. Might finally write a battle report like I've been meaning to do forever. Here's the list for shoots and googles:
Still torn on whether or not to do basically the same thing except with LoC and Tzeentch Prince, but I like the 2+ jink, ID, and the high T of the GUO
I've messed about with the 2+ jink quite a bit, it's good but not fantastic, too much ignore cover around, also Screamer star needs Fateweaver to make it reliable.
I think the only way to do it and make it competitive in current meta is to go daemons primary. Most tournaments I go to aren't 2 CADS, normally 1 CAD + Ally/Formation.
It's tournament legal for most until if/when TO's start ruling that Hive Fleet Leviathan counts as a CAD or something along those lines. It's basically the same way straight Tyranid lists are getting five Flyrants.
I played this list today against Grey Knights/Space Wolves with drop podding Purifiers. My opponent brought 2 10 man Purifier squads with 2 incinerators each, an 8 man Purifer squad with a ML3 libby all in pods, 2 Grey Hunter squads with a Rune Priest in pods, a min Strike Squad, and a Dreadknight. Turns out he had a 2000 pt list to my 1850, but it was nobody's fault. Neither of us really asked as the game was a wee rushed to start with.
He had first turn and dropped in a combat squadded Purifier unit, the Purifiers with his Libby and a Grey Hunter pod. All the Purifiers landed near my GUO and ScreamerStar, fortunately the Grey Hunters scattered far enough back to bring their full weight to bear. DK shunted forward. It looked bad, but fortunately all the Cleansing Flames he popped off were able to be denied as I was denying on a 4+ and had plenty of dice to throw(targeting ML3 psykers with PsyShooting/Maledictions a'int exactly gonna go your way ). Incinerators and massed bolter fire did put a dent in the ScreamerStar though.
The Flyrants which I had put in a corner away from any objectives leapt in to the air and took out one 5 man Purifier combat squad and put a dent in the 8 man unit. Unfortunately the 8 man unit failed their morale check and fell back making it impossible for my GUO to make what was otherwise a guaranteed charge (he had Iron Arm, Endurance AND Warp Speed that turn ). Nurgle Prince made it into combat with his Grey Hunters and killed a few.
Turn 2, his last purifier squad comes in behind my screamers (who now have 3++ rerolling 1s) and pretty much finish neutering them. Nurgle Prince finishes off Grey Hunters this turn and flyrants continue to merk mehreens. Don't know why he thought his Dreadknight could tango with a buffed GUO but he charges it. I whiff first round of combat, but end up killing it in my turn. Nurgle Prince finishes off Grey Hunters in my turn as well. I had the Mucolids, Nurglings, and Horrors all in reserve and they all came in this turn. All mucolids mishap, one dies, two go into ongoing reserve, and the horrors and nurglings scatter away from their objectives. Meh, deepstrike.
Turn 3, he finishes off my ScreamerStar in his shooting phase and assaults the Nurgle Prince with 5 Purifiers who have Force. Nurgle Prince responds by eating them. He shuffles around a bit but only his Strike squad sits on an objective. Flyrants continue to do what they do and just dakka away. Nurglings grab an objective as well as the Nurgle Prince. We had to call it here due to time. I would have liked to see it play it to the bitter end, as I feel it would have been a close game.
All in all I think the list is pretty good. It performed admirably, especially considering the points deficit. Flyrants just cover so much of what Daemons lack without exposing any further weaknesses. That said, it could definitely use a few tweaks though, and I need more experience running it. A few thoughts:
-First off, the Screamerstar did almost nothing this game, which was frustrating. I didn't roll Cursed Earth, so no 2++ cheese. It was also the prime target of his alpha strike, so it was difficult to play them aggressively after taking heavy casualties. In other lists I have no problem summoning with this unit, but I found I was throwing so many dice at keeping the GUO and Nurgle Prince alive that I just didn't have the Warp Charges. This is partially due to the fact that I was expending more warp charges per power than I normally would since he so many denial dice. Also I kind of just had too many buffs to work with (I rolled Iron Arm, Endurance, and Warp Speed on BOTH of my Nurgle baddies. . . talk about picking your powers).
-A little bit more ObSec would have been nice. Might try to find points to replace a Mucolid with some Rippers.
-Flyrants are awesome (duh.) and the Nurgle Princes compliment them really well with their ability to kill just about any other MC in the game. With impunity if you roll up Warp Speed.
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2014/12/07 04:07:54
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
jifel wrote: Ok, the weekend is here, so I'm taking a quick break from finals studying to write another review:
Tyrannofex (by jifel)
C+ (on foot with Rupture Cannon)
I'm with you all the way until here. If anything is deserving of an F, it is sure the Malaceptor. But if 2 things deserve an F it is the Malaceptor and the Rupture Cannon TFex. 205 points for a model that hits once per turn at S10 AP4 without ignore cover? Awful.
I fully understand that view, and I guess relative to some other grades I would agree that a C+ may be too high. But, it does fill a role that nothing else in our army does, even if it does it poorly. I may bump it down to a D, but I will say that it does not deserve an F, simply because the Fleshborer Hive exists.
2014/12/07 04:29:40
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Hey all, so I've been out of the Nid game for a couple months, but I've been swiftly pulled back by the influx of amazing new goodies.
I know of the Lictor list that won the GT, but I still am not quite sure as to what value Lictors are bringing to lists. Especially in the sort of list that jy2 posted earlier with the 5 Flyrants. Can anyone enlighten me?
Hey all, so I've been out of the Nid game for a couple months, but I've been swiftly pulled back by the influx of amazing new goodies.
I know of the Lictor list that won the GT, but I still am not quite sure as to what value Lictors are bringing to lists. Especially in the sort of list that jy2 posted earlier with the 5 Flyrants. Can anyone enlighten me?
Im a HUGE believer in list synergy. Everyone knows of the easy synergies, like Lictor + Mawloc.
The hard park to look at is Threat, To me there are multi types of threats, 1 is Killing power, Stopping power and Object Sec. A Tervigon does well (as a troop) for both Stopping power and Object Sec, it can sit on a point and still send Tar-pit units out.
I feel a Good list needs to synergies with these 3.
The Rippers + DS or Mucolids are small and easy to kill, but they are very cheap easy ways to get an objectives, with DS it makes it even easier. The threat they pose is Object Sec.
Dakka Flyrants can doKilling and Stopping (Depending on set up and what they fight) If you put a tryrant against 15 guardsman he will stay in CC and not die, can Melee things down easy (like light tanks) also can put out alot of fire power.
Lictors do alittle of all 3, But I feel they do more of Object Sec and a havoc unit. But having the special rules, it can synergies with a mawloc (Im not a fan of it personally) BUT better yet it can get a 2+/3+ Cover save easily, can DS and Infilitrate close to Objectives or put pressure on a unit.
Having MSU of Lictors in better than a large unit of 3 (IMO) they can hit different targets and take more objectives, with good place mean you can get 1 in front a unnit and another behind.
Overwatch - If your in ruins (and about 8-12" away) you can take over watch with a 2+ cover save, with fleet and Move through Cover it will get there, so they have to shoot snapshot at a 2+ cover or, risk not getting a Overwatch.
Taking 2 CADs/1cad+ally/new BAAL Cad+Codex what ever you want, get 4 HQ's
4 Dakka Flyrants
3 Lictors (Units of 1)
2 Venoms (unit of 1 or 2)
3 Mucolid
3 DS Rippers
3 mawlocs
Fort + coms
1760pts total
(5pts over to take a Bastion+coms, can swap a Ripper for Mucolid or take wall + coms)
If looking at a list like this, 4 Flyrants running around poses a HUGE THREAT, Rippers/mucolids will take objects, with lictors being placed where you need, hitting the rear, beacon the mawlocs, killing small units you need taken out (Like 5 man unit of pathfinders). etc...
There are better list and better ways to show Synergy, just a fast example.
One thing about gants, they are Slow, and hard to get ot Objectives, they are harder to hind in cover as well, cost more and will die just as easy.
Edit: For spelling English is hard fo are me.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/12/07 07:10:59
jifel wrote: Ok, the weekend is here, so I'm taking a quick break from finals studying to write another review:
Tyrannofex (by jifel)
C+ (on foot with Rupture Cannon)
I'm with you all the way until here. If anything is deserving of an F, it is sure the Malaceptor. But if 2 things deserve an F it is the Malaceptor and the Rupture Cannon TFex. 205 points for a model that hits once per turn at S10 AP4 without ignore cover? Awful.
Not that I disagree with the F grading but the Rupture Cannon is assault 2. I assume you were just going off the fact that the Tyrannofex is BS3 though? Also there are plenty of other grades that are more poorly thought out than that one. The Sky-Slashers are a prime example.
Assault 2, BS3 = 1 hit per turn.
Yes I pointed that out.
2014/12/07 08:31:13
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
the shrouded lord wrote: so what is this new maleceptor thing like? looks darned awesome and seems like it would look good next to my tyrant guard.
If you mean on the shelf next to your tyrant guard, then yes, its definitely a cool model. If you mean on the table? Just... No. Its widely regarded as being in competition for the absolute worst unit in the army.
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Besides we were talking SkyTyrant, and that has swarms of Gargoyles attached. 
(building)
(less)
). Incinerators and massed bolter fire did put a dent in the ScreamerStar though.
). Nurgle Prince made it into combat with his Grey Hunters and killed a few.
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
6000 
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