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 c0j1r0 wrote:
Does its shroud cloud extend out of the bastion?

Yes.

Crimson Heretic wrote:
Hey all, sort new to nids and still fairly fresh to the game in general..looking for some list ideas based off of what i have..i play in a 100% relaxed none agressive area with close friends..if you guy/gals could give me pointers on building an alright list, i would appreciate it...heres what i got..

tyrant(none winged)
carnifex
x2 zoanthropes
venomthrope
40 termigaunts
16 hormagaunts
8 pants thiefs(gene stealers)+ broodlord
10 gargoyles
x3 tyranid warriors
x5 ripper swarms

its a slow process to gather the models that are decent or popular, because we lack a reliable GW store in our area

thank you

How many points do you normally run at? The idea is to build as best you can a Take-All-Comer's list with what you've got. If you have a points level in mind, we can give you suggestions on what type of list to run.

 jy2 wrote:

 c0j1r0 wrote:
Does its shroud cloud extend out of the bastion?

Yes.

Crimson Heretic wrote:
Hey all, sort new to nids and still fairly fresh to the game in general..looking for some list ideas based off of what i have..i play in a 100% relaxed none agressive area with close friends..if you guy/gals could give me pointers on building an alright list, i would appreciate it...heres what i got..

tyrant(none winged)
carnifex
x2 zoanthropes
venomthrope
40 termigaunts
16 hormagaunts
8 pants thiefs(gene stealers)+ broodlord
10 gargoyles
x3 tyranid warriors
x5 ripper swarms

its a slow process to gather the models that are decent or popular, because we lack a reliable GW store in our area

thank you

How many points do you normally run at? The idea is to build as best you can a Take-All-Comer's list with what you've got. If you have a points level in mind, we can give you suggestions on what type of list to run.

1200-1500 normally

Crimson Heretic wrote:
Hey all, sort new to nids and still fairly fresh to the game in general..looking for some list ideas based off of what i have..i play in a 100% relaxed none agressive area with close friends..if you guy/gals could give me pointers on building an alright list, i would appreciate it...heres what i got..

tyrant(none winged)
carnifex
x2 zoanthropes
venomthrope
40 termigaunts
16 hormagaunts
8 pants thiefs(gene stealers)+ broodlord
10 gargoyles
x3 tyranid warriors
x5 ripper swarms

its a slow process to gather the models that are decent or popular, because we lack a reliable GW store in our area

thank you

So 1200-1500? That's a tough one. You CANNOT build a TAC army with this list because your army just doesn't have the tools to do so. But I will offer whatever advice I can anyways. First off, does you or your opponents mind if you proxy? For example, would you or your opponents mind if you ran your hive tyrant on foot as a flyrant with 2x Brainleech Devourers? Or how about your carnifex with 2x Brainleech Devourers? What about if you run your termagants as 10 fleshborers (or spine-fists) and 10 devourers?

I think there is a decent formation you can use, called the Children of Crypus. It involves your genestealers + Broodlord. I will base your list off of that formation:



Let me know if you'd rather not proxy.

Hive Tyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Wings, Hive Commander

Venomthrope
1x Zoanthrope
1x Zoanthrope

20x Termagants - 10x Fleshborers, 10x Devourers
20x Termagants - 10x Fleshborers, 10x Devourers
16x Hormagants
Children of Cryptus formation (8 genestealers + Broodlord)
3x Warriors - Rending Claws, 1x venom cannon
3x Rippers - Deestriking

10x Gargoyles

Carnifex - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers

I'm not sure exactly how many points this is (don't have my codex with me), but I think it is somewhere around 1300-pts.

Tactics for his army.

1. Genestealers should be infiltrating. Try to trail them back to be in range of your venomthrope. This way, they will be getting 2+ cover with any type of cover.

2. Use Hive Commander to outflank one of your units, whether it be 1 unit of devilgants or the dakkafex.

3. Use your gargoyles as a screening unit for the rest of the army. Make sure to trail at least 1 model back to within venomthrope shrouding range.

4. When advancing with your horde, always have at least a couple of units from each horde trailing back to your venomthrope to give them cover.

5. Rippers should be deepstriking in onto objectives.

6. The army on the whole should be advancing. The only unit(s) that won't is a unit that you leave on your home objective.

I think the whole LAN vs Pentyrant has run its course pretty effectively. Opinions have been presented for both sides, and both sides have provided varying levels of rationale as to why they take their position. I'm sure that everything will sort itself out once a couple tournaments are run, as everyone will have their choice of which to field and I think that the results (in addition to the Tyranid army compositions) will speak for themselves.

Personally I don't see myself running LAN in the near future. I would prefer to rock a Hierodule and while I know that LAN can synergize well with it, it's just not my personal preference. And completely aside with whether or not you are a fan of how LAN performs, it is actually a pretty big cut-back within the current standard 2 source format. You could take it with leviathan to gain 3 Flyrants, but I think that the complete lack of objective secured is still an issue that I would prefer to avoid. Otherwise, you can only take two. Which is not the end of the world. Pre-leviathan that was it outside of self-ally anyway. But the point is that there is a pretty big chasm between 5 and 2 Flyrants. Or 5 and 3 plus no obsec. Something to consider.

I doubt I'll be running 5 Flyrants any time soon either, but four plus dusting off my Skyblight seems like an interesting idea. Plus lictors. I actually don't think that they are quite the flash in the pan that some people have made them out to be. Even beyond the synergy of their Mawloc combo, they are pretty durable for a 50 pt unit that can go to ground (and still contribute the next turn if you play it right). Will certainly be trying those out in the near future.



By the way, those of you who run a bastion - if you're just using it for a Comms relay (not sticking a Malanthrope in it) - heresy, I know - has anyone had issues with a Bunker instead? It's cheaper but doesn't have as much BLOS capability, which is sad. Trying to finagle the last couple points for my list

luke1705 wrote:
Personally I don't see myself running LAN in the near future. I would prefer to rock a Hierodule and while I know that LAN can synergize well with it, it's just not my personal preference. And completely aside with whether or not you are a fan of how LAN performs, it is actually a pretty big cut-back within the current standard 2 source format. You could take it with leviathan to gain 3 Flyrants, but I think that the complete lack of objective secured is still an issue that I would prefer to avoid. Otherwise, you can only take two. Which is not the end of the world. Pre-leviathan that was it outside of self-ally anyway. But the point is that there is a pretty big chasm between 5 and 2 Flyrants. Or 5 and 3 plus no obsec. Something to consider.

Bigger issue with LAN for me is the lack of a fortification slot if you do Leviathan + Formation. It means you can't run a reserve heavy army, and you are more dependent on terrain.

 Zande4 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:
How are you both misreading what he's saying this much? I honestly don't even know what's happening...

He said 5 Flyrants is the best build Tyranids have. Not once has he said all other builds are invalid and uncompetitive, in fact he says the opposite a page back stating Tyranids currently have the MOST competitive builds of all armies, while also stating that LAN is good...

Stop using this thin fallback for every counterpoint made to his argument lol, I'm saying nothing of the sort. I'm not responding to him saying anything is "invalid or uncompetitive" which I'm well aware he is not, I'm responding to him saying that LAN is not top tier, by providing my argument as to why it is. All this finger pointing about us misreading and accusing jy2 of saying Nidzilla is trash tier, where are you getting it from?

Here's one for you

tag8833 wrote:
So your point of view is that any list that isn't 5 flyrants is a loser list?

And what? Every counterpoint? Thin fallback? So far you've called out jy2's logic behind the Pentyrant list saying "it's better because it is" by responding with "it's not because it isn't"
You can link me to your LAN Batreps if you'd like.

Yeah, because I'm a Tag alt, so anything I say, you can counter with stuff that he has said as if I'd said it myself.

~_~

Top tier = the very best. LAN was not shutting down Waveserpent spam as far as I'm aware of. You can't just lump something at the top because you like it and feel it deserves it.
I'd also like to point out that LAN fails against av13 Necrons too and Skyrays will ruin it just as much as they will ruin Pentyrant. I'f I'm not mistaken LAN still takes 2-3 Flyrants.

Is this practiced or is this projection? I think I already know the answer, because as the one other person who consistently plays a LAN has already told you, these are not LAN counters. Wave Serpent I have a positive win ratio against in 7 games with the most recent iteration of my build. Nobody is saying they are easy wins, just that your only comparison is to Flyrant spam, which is a fairly balanced match up for these as well.


Yes, I play against a sensible players, if not, I'm practicing vs myself and playing as hard as I can, not the type to give myself breaks. I don't ever take a game against someone who is playing casually as relevant to anything competitive and just leave such experiences out of competitive discussion and take it as dice-rolling fun. I'm not as hugely vested in this argument as others, but I must note, that instead of logic I'm just seeing a lot of diversions from countering a the logic in the argument, such constantly trying to devolve this argument into some back and forth about Tag (and myself too apparently, somehow) not comprehending that Jy2 doesn't think LAN is a Vespid level build (yes, we know that, it's clearly a response to the statements he DID make), or falling back from that to finger pointing that to win against such builds your opponents must be uncompetitive (something you would have absolutely no idea over), in a match up that has clearly gone unpracticed by you. My Eldar friend is the type who travels cross country to make it to every event, he has a collection larger than my Nids and I own multiples of practically everything except the brand new stuff, and the guy also a T.O. at times himself, I'm not sure exactly how much more competitive you need to be to considered justifiable. No, I'm not going to sit down and write a Battlereport just to be allowed to have an OPINION on a match up, I barely have time to get on to post these days, how is this anything but elitist. Also, considering that I've practiced builds of BOTH persuasions against the same players, it would be fair to say that this would have little outcome on my opinion on the differences between the two builds. I haven't been able to get on much lately, but is this really what this thread has come to?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

luke1705 wrote:
I think the whole LAN vs Pentyrant has run its course pretty effectively.

Yes please

I think a TAC list is going the way of the dodo. With the meta so diverse these days I find better results building hyper-focused lists that excel at 1 thing or gimmick and playing as best to the mission as possible when facing Rock Paper Scissors match ups.

 SHUPPET wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

luke1705 wrote:
I think the whole LAN vs Pentyrant has run its course pretty effectively.

Yes please

Fair enough.

 jy2 wrote:
2. Use Hive Commander to outflank one of your units, whether it be 1 unit of devilgants or the dakkafex.

Hive Commander only works on Troops, unfortunately.

Do you roll for reserves first, or test for Instinctive Behavior?

Say I have a Hormagaunts unit out I synapse, an a Tervigon in reserve. Do I roll the reserves first to get it in Synapse before I roll for. Instinctive Behavior, or do I take Instinctive Behavior tests before anything else?

Pretty sure I can choose the order, but I would like some confirmation.

Roll is at the start of the turn, so you pick the order.

So, I'm curious what everyone has found out about the best way to use the Tyrannocyte. I've given it quite a few tests, but have been stymied drawing too many conclusions, because my opponents for the tests have not been prepared for them, and I've either won big or lost big. No close games.

Here were my initial observations. These are all perliminary, and I'm only listing them to see where they might differ from other people's experiences.

The pod itself - Very impressive. I've only lost 1 to shooting. They score objectives, and chip away at opponents. I like the VC because it can threaten AV 12, and is deadly to Xenos infantry. However, it is annoying to use, and I've settled on the deathspitters in most cases. I love the gametime versatility to swap what they carry, or run them empty. Honestly, I end up using them like a mix between rippers and Lictors most of the time. They can be killed, but not as easily as either of those, and they do more damage than either one. If they could run, and/or assault I would be looking to include one in all of my TAC lists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I think a TAC list is going the way of the dodo. With the meta so diverse these days I find better results building hyper-focused lists that excel at 1 thing or gimmick and playing as best to the mission as possible when facing Rock Paper Scissors match ups.

I think that is true right now, and will continue to be true until people start embracing a meaningful fix the FOC system.

tag8833 wrote:
So, I'm curious what everyone has found out about the best way to use the Tyrannocyte. I've given it quite a few tests, but have been stymied drawing too many conclusions, because my opponents for the tests have not been prepared for them, and I've either won big or lost big. No close games.

Here were my initial observations. These are all perliminary, and I'm only listing them to see where they might differ from other people's experiences.

Spoiler:

TFex - Disappointing
Dakkafex - Stunning. Fixes his survival and mobility issues.
Devourer Gants - Excellent
Tyranid Prime w/ fodder - highly situational. It's kinda fun for some reason
Tyranid Prime w/ Tyrant guard - Only did it once, and had great results.
Dimacharon - Only tried it 3 times. Once the Dima got killed by Eldar shooting. The other 2 times he was wasted assaulting MSU.
Hive Guard - Haven't tried it.
Hormagants - Worked better than expected. Dropped them, disembarked, and then ran to score one objective and contest another.
Toxicrine - Haven't Tried it.
Zoeys - Bad
Pyrovores - Tried it once. They didn't come in until 4 when I had him basically tabled.
Warriors - Better than expected, still rather have Shrikes or Raveners.
Tervigon - Disappointing

The pod itself - Very impressive. I've only lost 1 to shooting. They score objectives, and chip away at opponents. I like the VC because it can threaten AV 12, and is deadly to Xenos infantry. However, it is annoying to use, and I've settled on the deathspitters in most cases. I love the gametime versatility to swap what they carry, or run them empty. Honestly, I end up using them like a mix between rippers and Lictors most of the time. They can be killed, but not as easily as either of those, and they do more damage than either one. If they could run, and/or assault I would be looking to include one in all of my TAC lists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I think a TAC list is going the way of the dodo. With the meta so diverse these days I find better results building hyper-focused lists that excel at 1 thing or gimmick and playing as best to the mission as possible when facing Rock Paper Scissors match ups.

I think that is true right now, and will continue to be true until people start embracing a meaningful fix the FOC system.

I LOVED using a Dakkafex, T-fex, Hive Guard out of them so far.

Dbl flamer t-fex lived and did better than the Dakkafex, mainly b.c my opponents didnt have ap2 guns and it had less wounds.

I did the 6man unit + Neuro Zones and that was amazing!! yes its 400pts, but 12 3++ wounds doing 6 Shots unit was just amazing. I wouldnt use them in games less than 2k tho (that big of a unit I mean).

Dakkafex in a pod is a beast. Tier 1 stuff every time.

Tfex in a pod is more situational. Against xenos he has shined, being MVP in games vs Deldar and Orks. Vs Marines his damage output doesnt fit the investment.
His survivability is always good an roughly the same in every game. What changes is if the flamers get past your opponets armor and if they get to double up like when hitting open toppedtransports

 sn0zcumb3r wrote:
Dakkafex in a pod is a beast. Tier 1 stuff every time.

Tfex in a pod is more situational. Against xenos he has shined, being MVP in games vs Deldar and Orks. Vs Marines his damage output doesnt fit the investment.
His survivability is always good an roughly the same in every game. What changes is if the flamers get past your opponets armor and if they get to double up like when hitting open toppedtransports

Yes, Even tho I like the Tfex A Lot, I feel the Carnifex is much more viable and the best for TAC lists in pods.

 c0j1r0 wrote:
Has anyone tried pairing an Endless Swarm with Trygon tunnels? I've been tossing the idea around for a few days now and wonder it anyone has tried and/or had success with it.

This formation is actually the first thing I built an army around when starting the game. The formation is good, but you definitely have to build for it. I've been running something along the lines of:
2 Flyrants
2 single Zoanthropes
2 DS Ripper squads
Trygon & Trygon Prime

And the the formation. Obviously I rapidly learned that you /need/ shrouded - I'd recommend 2x Venoms or Malans if you have to be quite honest, you have so many units that you need the additional model to be able to cover anything.

The other thing is that you generally do not get anywhere near the number of respawns you expect, purely because a smart opponent does not fully kill units often. The best I had was a game with 11 units instead of 6, which was excellent, but generally it's 1-3 more.

The formation itself is actually very interesting though, mostly in terms of what it does to opponents psychologically - what do they shoot? It's also a difficult decision which direction to go with it: do you run minimum units just to exploit the respawns, or larger ones which soak up significantly more points? I've done both approaches, and generally I think in larger games making the respawning units somewhat of a threat is a good idea, as it prevents the opponent just picking off everything else and whittling them down. I tend to go with 3x 18 Termas with 12 Devourers, who are the stars of the formation for sure, doing a ton of damage; 25 Hormas (used as a screen for the rest of the army) and 2x 15 poison Hormas. The Hormas tend to get shot first, so I am leaning towards not upgrading them and keeping them small, but equally you could go the other route and run 3x30 Hormas just to drown the foe in bodies. One thing I intend to try when I get some pods is putting 20 Devilgaunts in them and seeing how that goes - as they are fantastic when coming out of Trygon holes. I also think an ADL for the comms relay might be worth trying along with the Bastion idea, as 2+ covers on my units for the first turn without having to rely on terrain sounds pretty great, and if you put it 6-9" from your deployment zone you can just have Hormas bound over it with ease!

The other big issue is lists heavy on armour, as you have very little to deal with it. Luckily, as generally you will be playing objectives you can still win, however. Essentially, it's a good list, but you have to delicately balance how much you invest into the formation to not make it low impact VS how much you have outside of it to be able to deal with other things.

I've steamrolled the opposition in the games I've tried my new 'null' deployment list. Tyrannocytes are brutal, when they reach critical mass. I agree that the Dakkafex is the TAC king in a pod, but when I already have two, I feel that the Egrub T-fex has a place. He's just great to flush out cover hugging xenos and spawns and deterring Surflords and Walkers from charging his Wall of Death Haywire template. He has way better staying power than a Carnifex and he doesn't need synaps babysitting, which is huge in a drop list.

Devouring Rain

Dakka Flyrant, Egrubs
Dakka Flyrant, Egrubs

Venomthrope
Zoanthrope, Tyrannocyte
Zoanthrope, Tyrannocyte

3 Ripper Swarm, deepstrike
10 Devilgants, Tyrannocyte
10 Devilgants, Tyrannocyte
10 Devilgants, Tyrannocyte

Dakkafex, Tyrannocyte
Dakkafex, Tyrannocyte
Tyrannofex, Egrubs, Tyrannocyte

1995 pts

You.don't.have.THAT.many.Tyrannocytes.

 sn0zcumb3r wrote:
You.don't.have.THAT.many.Tyrannocytes.

You can make some pretty cheap alternatives with styrofoam balls and hot glue. Or a variety of different techniques and hobby supplies.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 sn0zcumb3r wrote:
You.don't.have.THAT.many.Tyrannocytes.

You can make some pretty cheap alternatives with styrofoam balls and hot glue. Or a variety of different techniques and hobby supplies.

Or This: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005VTFVTU/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1EW7EXNZWY0LX&coliid=IYUZGTD2VK050

$1.99 + Shipping + leftover Carnifex Bitz = Tyrannocyte.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sn0zcumb3r wrote:
Tfex in a pod is more situational. Against xenos he has shined, being MVP in games vs Deldar and Orks. Vs Marines his damage output doesnt fit the investment.
His survivability is always good an roughly the same in every game. What changes is if the flamers get past your opponets armor and if they get to double up like when hitting open toppedtransports

I've run TFex in a pod 7-8 times now. He had one sensational game against Venom spam Dark Eldar. (Killed 3-4 venoms and their passengers). He's contributed a few times in other games, but overall is just underwhelming.

Sorry, odd question of the day; can a FMC choose Skyfire? I believe the answer is yes, by RAW, but what about a SkyTyrant? That cannot fly by special rule? I was wondering over breakfast this AM...

pinecone77 wrote:
Sorry, odd question of the day; can a FMC choose Skyfire? I believe the answer is yes, by RAW, but what about a SkyTyrant? That cannot fly by special rule? I was wondering over breakfast this AM...

Only while Swooping.

Interesting to note, it can choose it for each phase, so a Hive Tyrant with Warp Blast could fire a Warp Blast with Skyfire at a Storm Talon during the Psychic Phase, then fire at Marines on the ground with TL Devs in the Shooting Phase.

 Frozocrone wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:
Sorry, odd question of the day; can a FMC choose Skyfire? I believe the answer is yes, by RAW, but what about a SkyTyrant? That cannot fly by special rule? I was wondering over breakfast this AM...

Only while Swooping.

Interesting to note, it can choose it for each phase, so a Hive Tyrant with Warp Blast could fire a Warp Blast with Skyfire at a Storm Talon during the Psychic Phase, then fire at Marines on the ground with TL Devs in the Shooting Phase.

Thanx, so I understand that as no, a SkyTyrant cannot Skyfire. I thought that was the case, but was not too sure. Nice point about Skyfire Witchfire. I had not thought of that.

Another point about the Warp Blast tyrant that I came across - when used first/early on in the psychic phase you can pull a neat trick:

Your opponent has to declare whether or not he is going to jink before you declare how many psychic dice you're going to throw at warp lance/blast. This works well for infantry but more importantly for flyers. You can make them jink and be pretty useless, then throw 1 psychic die at it and say "whoops I failed". Not something I would pull in casual games, but having a Flyrant make two different opposing units have vastly reduced offensive output the next turn (the second being whatever he shoots at in the shooting phase) is a lot better than one (about twice as good haha)

Hey guys do the tyrranocytes that carry a troops choice tervigon or devourer-gaunts have ObSec? If so i'll be using them more with a double template tervigon haha

They are not dedicated transports, so no.

Any way to buy single Mucolid Spore Mines and not to be forced to buy the entire Sporocyst/Tyrannocyte thing?

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Any way to buy single Mucolid Spore Mines and not to be forced to buy the entire Sporocyst/Tyrannocyte thing?

search eBay, buy the forge world Mietoic spore sacks or create your own.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tyranids/MIEOTIC-SPORE-SACKS.html

 Wilson wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Any way to buy single Mucolid Spore Mines and not to be forced to buy the entire Sporocyst/Tyrannocyte thing?

search eBay, buy the forge world Mietoic spore sacks or create your own.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tyranids/MIEOTIC-SPORE-SACKS.html

As many times as this gets asked, maybe it should be edited in to the OP, lol.

Just got a Spawn of Cryptus and unit of Genestealers for $30 total on eBay!

What's the optimal way to build the stealers? Scytals + Rending?