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azazel70820 wrote:
Am I missing something with my Rippers. They keep giving me trouble through IB. I deep strike them in. Most of the time they dont have Synapse. Failing LD test most of the time on 5s. Then then cant move on 1-3. Am I missing something?

Yep, they don't move much. Getting to the board is biggest challenge with Rippers. I swear they mishap and die more than any other model. After that, just let them sit on an objective eating themselves until the game is over.

So because I am feeling lazy and can't be bothered to paint many new models for Cally, here is the list I'm taking.

Leviathan

3 x Flyrants (standard load out)(1 Fighter ace)
Malonthrope

3 x 3 Deep Strike Rippers

2 x 15 Gargoyles
Dimachaeron

Mawloc
Mawloc
Mawloc
Tyrannocyte

Only leaves me with the Tyrannocyte and the Dimachaeron to get painted, which I can probably be bothered to do in time!

I'm sort of surprised that a bunch of tournament lists are popping up without any lictors to guide 2-3 Mawlocs in. I know there will be ignored cover at the tournament level (potentially a lot of it) but without the Lictors, Mawlocs will whiff 2/3 of the time. Not the kind of stat you want at the tournament level. Has anyone playtested this kind of list? I've been having some good success with Lictors guiding Mawlocs in, and they are extremely durable vs anything that's not ignores cover (go to ground for the win!)

luke1705 wrote:
I'm sort of surprised that a bunch of tournament lists are popping up without any lictors to guide 2-3 Mawlocs in. I know there will be ignored cover at the tournament level (potentially a lot of it) but without the Lictors, Mawlocs will whiff 2/3 of the time. Not the kind of stat you want at the tournament level. Has anyone playtested this kind of list? I've been having some good success with Lictors guiding Mawlocs in, and they are extremely durable vs anything that's not ignores cover (go to ground for the win!)

Don't take my list as any sort of guide to competitive lists, I'm just being lazy.

Quite frankly I'm not sold on Mawlocs/Lictors at all. I just don't see the points being worth it for what is an unreliable unit. In a GT, you're getting 2 blast templates in a game for 140 points, very rarely 3 templates. Then you pay more for a fragile unit to guide it? Sorry, I just don't see it. I do understand the appeal of Lictors in a Maelstrom mission where grabbing objectives mid game matters, but Mawlocs are terrible anti vehicle, and there's no guarentee you can pop the vehicles needed turn 1, when EG may be out of range. In a GT setting I can only hustings bringing a unit that will help me in every competitive matchup, and that means Dakkafex and TFex in pods just stand out more to me. Likewise, a Crone will help every turn its in the board as it can threaten both infantry and vehicles.

As a disclaimer I must say that all the GTs around gere are Eternal War style, and consequently so are all of my pickup games, but I still think that the best Nid lists will not need Mawlocs.

luke1705 wrote:
I'm sort of surprised that a bunch of tournament lists are popping up without any lictors to guide 2-3 Mawlocs in. I know there will be ignored cover at the tournament level (potentially a lot of it) but without the Lictors, Mawlocs will whiff 2/3 of the time. Not the kind of stat you want at the tournament level. Has anyone playtested this kind of list? I've been having some good success with Lictors guiding Mawlocs in, and they are extremely durable vs anything that's not ignores cover (go to ground for the win!)

I used to run a list with 3 Mawlocs and no lictors. It was before I had access to Malanthropes. It looked something like this:

I took it to a little RTT once. It was at the very beginning of 7th. If I recall one Mawloc mishapped and died in all 3 of the games, though in one game that didn't happen until the 2nd drop.

I didn't do very well at the tourney because they were running Maelstrom missions, and Between my Flyrants, Crones, and Mawlocs, I had next to no board control once the Tervigon died, and MSU mech (Space Wolves, Iron Hands) beat me twice. I did beat Tau gunline though. Actually I might have squeaked out a win in the Iron Hands game, I remember scoring a huge turn 5, but time getting called before I could table them, and as I said it was quite a while ago.


My opinion is that Lictors need to be spammed to be useful as a Mawloc Teleport Homer. 2-3 Lictors die too easily, and are going to have trouble getting into position and staying there. Go to Ground is a useful trick, but I find it hard to keep my Lictors more thant 12" away from Flyrants.

Fair point tag. You're definitely right that you need to bring a number of them because one can be removed. Simple as that. But taking 2-3 and making one poor little wave serpent try to deal with them all....that's what I'm talking about

I've been toying around with 6 of them using Leviathan + Tyranid CAD, although who knows how long that will hold up? I also am only using 2 Mawlocs so far. Not the least of which is because I only own two; however I think 3 might be overkill in a number of situations. Then again, you're pretty reliably going to have a 1-3 on the mishap table at some point and have nasty things happen to your Mawloc.

The other thing that I'm experimenting with is something of a synapse light list (and using units that don't need synapse as much to go along with it). I still have 2 Flyrants, but maneuvering my lictors between them is much easier than with more. 2 Dimachaerons in a pod don't care much about synapse, nor do the lictors or rippers. And (correct me if I'm wrong) the Mawloc can burrow before IB since they both happen simultaneously. Even if not, she should rarely actually appear on the board if she is doing her job right

I think the big reason so many people are taking Mawlocs (Including me) Is they are only 140 points. They have the potential to devastate deathstars and gunlines, and even if they scatter off a six wound monstrous creature in the backfield is an issue for many armies regardless of it middling stats. It can also reposition itself with the abiity to burrow and hit & run.

One Mawloc hitting centurion star can almost completely neuter the unit and almost end the game. It just offers so much potential upside.

luke1705 wrote:
And (correct me if I'm wrong) the Mawloc can burrow before IB since they both happen simultaneously. Even if not, she should rarely actually appear on the board if she is doing her job right

Nope sorry. IB happens before movement phase. Mawloc Burrow happens during movement phase.

Re: Lictors as Teleport homers.
The Mawloc must arrive within 6" of the Lictor and the lictor must have been on the board the turn before. So the Lictor has to be within 6" of a target for an entire opponent turn. Most opponents will either kill the Lictor, or simply move a few inches away. It isn't hard to defeat it. I've had good success bringing a Mawloc in on a close combat that involves a lictor, but it is pretty hard to keep a lictor alive for 2 rounds in a close combat with anything that they need help with. It just seems like success is too dependent on the opponent playing along. The exception is when you spam lictors and are able to cover a good portion of the board with the 6" radiuses of all of the Lictors.

IB doesn't really affects the Mawloc.

Hi all, I am new to Tyranids and looking for advice.

I don't play much mostly just paint but still like to build half way reasonable armies.

I have gathered up the start of a Tyranid force and am just wanting some opinions before I start building everything.

Plan A -1000 Pts.

Flyrant with Electroshock grubs & 2 x Twin Devs - 240

3 Warriors - 1 BS 1RC - 105
3 Warriors - 1 BS 1RC - 105
4 Warriors - 1 VC 3 D/Spitters 3RC - 190
10 Garg - 60

1 Venom - 45
1 Dakka Fex - 150
1 C/Claw Fex - 135
- 1000


I know most people don't rate warriors but I really like the look of them and want to paint some nice big models after doing alot of Orks and Space marines, that plus Deathstorm let me grab 12 warriors and 4 Fexes very cheap!

So the questions -

Are Crushing claw Fexes worth it? I kinda like the idea of a tank busting machine that will run across the board and HOW smash into tanks! The model could also double as Old One Eye if I ever choose to play him.

Are Fexes with Stranglethorn cannons and 1 set of devourers a viable build? This seems like quite a nice combo, with no actual experience of playing.

I quite like the idea of spamming pie plates and the nids seem capable of throwing quite a few around, do many people build this way? I was thinking the squads of warriors with BS, maybe 2 Fexs with ST & Devs plus an Exocrine and maybe a Harpy with ST and Cluster Spines.
This would be 7 large blasts and may just about fit under 1000 pts depending on HQ.

Is there any viable way to build and use a Prime? I have read all the reviews and the consences seems to be 'No' but I wanted to ask if anyone finds them useful? I can make one with the bits I have, I maybe will just make one anyway so the squad looks cool in my display cabinet even if there is no way to make him work! If there is any uses what load out? I had thought L/whip & Sword plus DS but he is almost as expensive as a Tyrant at that point!

Cheers for any pointers,

Tremble

If you look at the first page, Jy2 has seemed to updated the units and tactics.

Jy2 is the guy you want to see about Nids.

Tremble wrote:
3 Warriors - 1 BS 1RC - 105
3 Warriors - 1 BS 1RC - 105
4 Warriors - 1 VC 3 D/Spitters 3RC - 190
I know most people don't rate warriors but I really like the look of them and want to paint some nice big models after doing alot of Orks and Space marines, that plus Deathstorm let me grab 12 warriors and 4 Fexes very cheap!

If you like them, you can build them that way, but consider this alternate way to group them with roughly the same number of warriors (1 less).
3 Warriors - 1 BS - 100
7 Warriors - 7 D/Spitters 7RC - 280
Then take the 20 points you freed up and give the Flyrant Hive Commander so that they can outflank.

BTW, I magnetize all of my warriors.

Tremble wrote:
Are Crushing claw Fexes worth it? I kinda like the idea of a tank busting machine that will run across the board and HOW smash into tanks! The model could also double as Old One Eye if I ever choose to play him.

Short Answer: No.
Long Answer. No, Adrenal Glands are a massively superior way to get to S10 on a Carnifex. Carnifexes do more damage usually with HOW anyways, and so getting to combat is so much more important than what you do once you get there.
If you want to run Crushing Claws on a Carnifex, you might consider a "Stone-Crusher Carnifex". It is a special type that gets AP:2 on HOW, and has significantly better survivability, because of a special rule that lowers the strength of all ranged weapons targeting it.
I also magnetize all of my Carnifexes.

Tremble wrote:
Are Fexes with Stranglethorn cannons and 1 set of devourers a viable build? This seems like quite a nice combo, with no actual experience of playing.

Yes, that build works ok. You are taking a big reduction in turn 2+ damage for an increase in Turn 1 Damage. It depends on how alpha-strikey you feel, and how long your carnifexes last. Carnifexes are pretty fragile, and don't tend to last very long. I actually think that a novice player might enjoy this build more than a pure dakkafex provided you are playing Eternal War or BAO missions. If you are playing Maelstrom, Dakka all-the-way.

Tremble wrote:
I quite like the idea of spamming pie plates and the nids seem capable of throwing quite a few around, do many people build this way? I was thinking the squads of warriors with BS, maybe 2 Fexs with ST & Devs plus an Exocrine and maybe a Harpy with ST and Cluster Spines.
This would be 7 large blasts and may just about fit under 1000 pts depending on HQ.

No, spamming pie plates is generally not a great way to go. The problem is that it works very well against Hoards, but right now the main rules strongly discourage hoards in favor of Mech, and min squads. So unless you plan to play mainly non-mech orks, or IG blob most of the time, too many pie plates is going to be a serious handicap.

Tremble wrote:
Is there any viable way to build and use a Prime? I have read all the reviews and the consences seems to be 'No' but I wanted to ask if anyone finds them useful? I can make one with the bits I have, I maybe will just make one anyway so the squad looks cool in my display cabinet even if there is no way to make him work! If there is any uses what load out? I had thought L/whip & Sword plus DS but he is almost as expensive as a Tyrant at that point!

The Tyranid prime costs roughly twice what he should based on points. So he isn't going to be in optimized lists. I'm about to commit some heresy here, and say there are indeed ways to run one in a list that can win games decisively.

Just to head off any responses like "a Flyrant is the only unit in the Tyranid codex worth taking, and every other unit is an affront to its greatness". I consider certain builds of Tyranid prime to be quasi viable, I am not arguing that it is better than a dakkaflyrant, and I admit that any list involving a Tyranid prime is going to have serious mismatches (mainly anything with a 2+ armor save).

Here is how I usually equip a Tyranid Prime:
Tyranid Prime (Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Bonesword + Lashwhip, Flesh Hooks, Scything Talons) -> You can swap the Scything Talons for Rending Claws, but I find that any situation where he would need them, they aren't going to be quite enough.

So this guy is a CC beatstick that can mess things up. The next problem becomes "How do I get him there?"

Option #1: The Sling-shot
This involves fast units (Like Gargoyles, Shrikes, or Raveners). You join the prime to a Malanthrope, Zoenthrope, Venomthrope, or backfield warriors for 1st turn and move him forward, and advance the speedy stuff towards the opponent. On turn 2, you position the speedy stuff to assault, but congaline back a single model to be in range of the Prime, so that he can join the unit at the end of movement on turn 2 before assault. Then it is just waiting a turn or two for him to pile in and make himself useful.

Option #2: Outflank.
This involves some troop unit. It is usually one of the following.
1) Warriors -> The prime boosts them a bit, so running them with RC's, AG's, and Deathspitters, and they are a pretty solid unit. The downside is that the deathspitters can shoot them out of charge range, and so you might consider something else.
2) Termagants (Base) -> These are nothing but a prime delivery system. You might consider dropping Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands, and the BS + LW for a Reaper of Obliterax in this scenario, because it isn't worth it to give the Termagants fleet. But it is a way to put the 30 termagant tervigon tax to use.
3) Termagants (mixed) -> 1/2 Devourers, 1/2 Fleshborers or Spinefist. These guys are a viable unit on their own, but have the same concern of shooting themselves out of charge range.
4) Hormagants -> These are the best prime delivery system (because of fleet). Unfortunately, they contribute nothing on the turn they arrive.

Option #3: Tyrannocyte.
He gets dropped from the sky. This involves a body guard. Here are a few suggestions.
1) 17 Hormagants -> much like outflanking, fleet makes them a superior delivery system, but they can't contribute on the turn they arrive.
2) 17 Termagants (10 Devourers, 7 Fleshborers) -> If this unit can arrive behind an AV10 vehicle it can pop it. But the Devourers pay less dividends after the turn they arrive.
3) 3 Tyrant Guard (1-2 Crushing Claws, 3 Adrenal Glands, Possibly Toxin Sacs) -> This is a great Prime bodyguard, and because the prime isn't an MC, he can ride in the Tyrannocyte with them. The Crushing claws + Rending claws provide a solution to units with a 2+ armor save, and vehicles. Because the Tyrant guard and fine by themselves, sometimes the prime may split off to solo a unit. The downside of this build is cost. It is a lot of points for a mini-deathstar that can't handle better deathstars.

Option #4: Hoards.
The goal here is to have at least 4 units containing 20+ models. Sometimes it is best to run "Endless Swarm", and/or give the Prime a "Norn Crown" for this tactic. The idea is, the prime hops between the various units as they get whittled down or reach charge range. This was a perfectly viable strategy in 6th against non-tau, non-eldar armies. However, 7th has shifted the balance so much in favor of mech, that this strategy is only viable in a very limited number of circumstances.

I'm new to 'nids myself and likewise love the look of warriors. but I've come upon the idea of deploying them as a back up to my gaunts to keep em in synapse. using them as sort of... Leuitenants on the battlefeild. thus allowing me to use my tyrants as needed without worrying about taking em out of synapse range of my gaunts

BrianDavion wrote:
I'm new to 'nids myself and likewise love the look of warriors. but I've come upon the idea of deploying them as a back up to my gaunts to keep em in synapse. using them as sort of... Leuitenants on the battlefeild. thus allowing me to use my tyrants as needed without worrying about taking em out of synapse range of my gaunts

That works, and works fairly well. Shrikes, Zoeys and especially Malanthropes all perform that task slightly better, but that is certainly one of the best ways to use warriors.

If a squad of gants could take a single warrior as a Sargent character, it would dramatically improve the Tyranid codex and make both gants and Warriors more popular.

tag8833 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'm new to 'nids myself and likewise love the look of warriors. but I've come upon the idea of deploying them as a back up to my gaunts to keep em in synapse. using them as sort of... Leuitenants on the battlefeild. thus allowing me to use my tyrants as needed without worrying about taking em out of synapse range of my gaunts

That works, and works fairly well. Shrikes, Zoeys and especially Malanthropes all perform that task slightly better, but that is certainly one of the best ways to use warriors.

If a squad of gants could take a single warrior as a Sargent character, it would dramatically improve the Tyranid codex and make both gants and Warriors more popular.

true but all of those units you listed use other slots that might, in theory, have more important uses troops slots however are something you're apt to have in abundance, (especially if you're using the hive fleet detachment)
as for Warriors as sergents. yeah that'd be nice, but I suppose it'd remove any real "cost" of synapse. hence why you have warriors seperate.
That said I suppose you COULD acheive a similer effect with Primes and multiple attachment shinnagens... or just play unbound,

My LVO list for 2015 (also taking it to the coming TSHIFT)

Flyrant 240 (dakka and egrubs)
Flyrant 240 (dakka and egrubs)
Flyrant 275 (dakka, egrubs and fighter ace) Warlord
Swarmlord 285
Barbed Heirodule 565
Malanthrope 85
4x mucloids
2x3 DS ripper swarms

List utilizes Leviathan detachment to get the 4 HQ's but I make my WL regular cad so I can access the brb WL traits from "strategic"

I've played well over 50 games with this list and pre Leviathan I used a self-ally list that was similar (minus SL and plus a Dima basically) for another 50+ games (I play... A LOT).

My aim is nothing short of winning TSHIFT and LVO. We will see if I'm insane or not my win percentage vs the best of the best on the west coast is very high. I had some learning curve with this list. Not a lot of bodies so mistakes proved fatal as it does have extremely potent offense and defense but limited scoring so if I was wasteful or careless I can limit myself pretty quickly.

In my games I've found the "fighter ace" upgrade to on average range from "good" to "broken." Rolling a 5/6 in a vanguard deployment mission is absolutely insane.. Doubling that with your WL having the upgrade makes him insanely more survivable too. The 3/4 is a no brainer too and if course the 1/2 is least desirable but I think of it as a 66% chance at a game-changer upgrade. Bit roulette'ish but the odds are in your favor.

Swarmlord is the "huh?" Element to my list but in practice I can tell you I have no regrets and cannot wait to show off my old best friend making a return. PE on the barb 90% of the time is insane. I feel like i am on average hitting 7-8 times and then wounding 7-8 times. Additionally the 3 powers are really clutch. SL is a body guard to my barb and those 3 powers are usually something like paroxysm, catalyst or some offensive powers. Really only onslaught and the horror tend to be less helpful (the horror has some mega clutch moments). WS9 and then cat on the SL who already has 4++ makes for a fantastic assassin who CAN tank the typical beat sticks like wraith knights and dread knights and then reliably kill them (usually swinging first). Drawbacks are of course he is slow and expensive but with him, the barb and my Malanthrope as central control I don't NEED him to be fast.

Sharing the list so you can a see it. TSHIFT is coming up so we will see if I'm on the mark. Excited!

iNcontroL wrote:
My LVO list for 2015 (also taking it to the coming TSHIFT)

Flyrant 240 (dakka and egrubs)
Flyrant 240 (dakka and egrubs)
Flyrant 275 (dakka, egrubs and fighter ace) Warlord
Swarmlord 285
Barbed Heirodule 565
Malanthrope 85
4x mucloids
2x3 DS ripper swarms

List utilizes Leviathan detachment to get the 4 HQ's but I make my WL regular cad so I can access the brb WL traits from "strategic"

I've played well over 50 games with this list and pre Leviathan I used a self-ally list that was similar (minus SL and plus a Dima basically) for another 50+ games (I play... A LOT).

My aim is nothing short of winning TSHIFT and LVO. We will see if I'm insane or not my win percentage vs the best of the best on the west coast is very high. I had some learning curve with this list. Not a lot of bodies so mistakes proved fatal as it does have extremely potent offense and defense but limited scoring so if I was wasteful or careless I can limit myself pretty quickly.

In my games I've found the "fighter ace" upgrade to on average range from "good" to "broken." Rolling a 5/6 in a vanguard deployment mission is absolutely insane.. Doubling that with your WL having the upgrade makes him insanely more survivable too. The 3/4 is a no brainer too and if course the 1/2 is least desirable but I think of it as a 66% chance at a game-changer upgrade. Bit roulette'ish but the odds are in your favor.

Swarmlord is the "huh?" Element to my list but in practice I can tell you I have no regrets and cannot wait to show off my old best friend making a return. PE on the barb 90% of the time is insane. I feel like i am on average hitting 7-8 times and then wounding 7-8 times. Additionally the 3 powers are really clutch. SL is a body guard to my barb and those 3 powers are usually something like paroxysm, catalyst or some offensive powers. Really only onslaught and the horror tend to be less helpful (the horror has some mega clutch moments). WS9 and then cat on the SL who already has 4++ makes for a fantastic assassin who CAN tank the typical beat sticks like wraith knights and dread knights and then reliably kill them (usually swinging first). Drawbacks are of course he is slow and expensive but with him, the barb and my Malanthrope as central control I don't NEED him to be fast.

Sharing the list so you can a see it. TSHIFT is coming up so we will see if I'm on the mark. Excited!

Well, Geoff, then you're going to be up for some stiff competition at TSHFT. Your nids are going to have to go through what may possibly be the last hurrah of my Necrons in order to win it all (before they get updated, that is).

BTW, this is going to be my list (using self-allies):

3x Bargelords (fully tooled up)
3x Haywire crypteks

3x5 Warriors in night scythes

3x1 Tomb blades

4x Annihilation barges

As for the LVO, I don't know yet what I'm going to bring. It'll either be Necrons or Tyranids. I've got a number of people telling me that I should bring my Pentyrant Tyranid list there, even though I've said that I wouldn't run it in competitive play. Ah, the pressure. Oh well, I guess we'd just have to wait and see.

Tremble wrote:
Hi all, I am new to Tyranids and looking for advice.

I don't play much mostly just paint but still like to build half way reasonable armies.

I have gathered up the start of a Tyranid force and am just wanting some opinions before I start building everything.

Plan A -1000 Pts.

Flyrant with Electroshock grubs & 2 x Twin Devs - 240

3 Warriors - 1 BS 1RC - 105
3 Warriors - 1 BS 1RC - 105
4 Warriors - 1 VC 3 D/Spitters 3RC - 190
10 Garg - 60

1 Venom - 45
1 Dakka Fex - 150
1 C/Claw Fex - 135
- 1000


I know most people don't rate warriors but I really like the look of them and want to paint some nice big models after doing alot of Orks and Space marines, that plus Deathstorm let me grab 12 warriors and 4 Fexes very cheap!

So the questions -

Are Crushing claw Fexes worth it? I kinda like the idea of a tank busting machine that will run across the board and HOW smash into tanks! The model could also double as Old One Eye if I ever choose to play him.

Are Fexes with Stranglethorn cannons and 1 set of devourers a viable build? This seems like quite a nice combo, with no actual experience of playing.

I quite like the idea of spamming pie plates and the nids seem capable of throwing quite a few around, do many people build this way? I was thinking the squads of warriors with BS, maybe 2 Fexs with ST & Devs plus an Exocrine and maybe a Harpy with ST and Cluster Spines.
This would be 7 large blasts and may just about fit under 1000 pts depending on HQ.

Is there any viable way to build and use a Prime? I have read all the reviews and the consences seems to be 'No' but I wanted to ask if anyone finds them useful? I can make one with the bits I have, I maybe will just make one anyway so the squad looks cool in my display cabinet even if there is no way to make him work! If there is any uses what load out? I had thought L/whip & Sword plus DS but he is almost as expensive as a Tyrant at that point!

Cheers for any pointers,

Tremble

If you're going to run Tyranid Warriors, drop the deathspitters and run them with rending claws instead. I recommend at least 2 out of the 3 with RC's (or all of them if you've got the points). RC's just gives them so much more flexibility, allowing them to deal with armor and high Toughness units.

BTW, I like Tag's suggestion of running 3 and 7 warriors instead. Running 1 as a support unit (the unit of 3) and the other as your main offensive unit/bullet sponge (unit of 7) then puts 4 dangerous threats at your opponent's doorsteps (flyrant, warriors and 2 carnifexes).

Also, ALWAYS run your carnifexes as shooty dakkafexes (with 2 TL-Brainleech devourers). Dakkafexes are so much better. Drop 1 warrior if you have to (for 1 unit of 3 and 1 unit of 6). Shooting is the way to go in this edition because the carnifex, even though it's got high strength, isn't actually all that great as an assault unit.

As to your questions:

1. I prefer Adrenal Glands over Crushing Claws for your cc-fexes. Speed IMO is more important than the crushing claws, especially since AG makes your carnifex S10 on the charge anyways.

2. Stranglethorn + devourers is ok but it isn't optimal. Now if you're taking it more for the looks or the theme (blast-heavy), then that's fine. However, if you want to run an optimized list for competitive play, then 2x TL-D's is your best option. If you want to run pie-plate-heavy bugs, it's more for theme than it is for competitive reasons. For competitive play, volume-of-fire, which is what devourers have, is the way to go.

3. He's not that good (ok, ok, he sucks), especially when compared to the almighty flyrant, but if you really want to try to shoehorn him into your list, then put him with a unit in a tyrannocyte. Either with a unit of Tyranid Warriors or possibly with some hormagants to act as his meat shield and drop them down in a spore. His main problem was that he had no fast and reliable delivery system before. Well, things have changed since the tyrannocyte was re-introduced into the Tyranid army a couple of months ago.

Thanks for the advice guys!

Looks like I will be magnetizing my Fexes then, not built any yet, are they easy to magnetise? Are the arms heavy for small magnets? Think I have some 2mm and 3mm magnets kicking about somewhere.

I really like the idea of using Hive commander to outflank the warrior squad, if I go down this route do you think I still need the Venom? He was in the list to protect the main warrior squad as it advanced, but if they outflank is there any need for him?

What about dropping the Gargs down to terms, pays for Hive commander, then dropping the venom to pay for upgrading the CC fex to a dakka fex plus adding an additional warrior to the larger squad?
This would take the outflanking squad to 5 with 1 VC, 1 stock and 3 with death spitters and RC. This also gives me 11 warriors on the field.

Is the Venom cannon worth it? I kinda like the idea of making one with it just to give me more options in the future - if I ever make LAN etc - but I have enough warriors that if it sucks in an assault type unit I can drop it.

Dropping the Venomthrope kinda helps me financially as it is the only thing in the proposed list I don't have, I really like new models and know I will add some later but it is an expensive box when I will only use one initially.

On the flip side if I really need him I proxy/get a box.

Thanks again for the help!

Tremble.

iNcontroL wrote:
My LVO list for 2015 (also taking it to the coming TSHIFT)

Flyrant 240 (dakka and egrubs)
Flyrant 240 (dakka and egrubs)
Flyrant 275 (dakka, egrubs and fighter ace) Warlord
Swarmlord 285
Barbed Heirodule 565
Malanthrope 85
4x mucloids
2x3 DS ripper swarms

I've got a few questions.

1) With no Bastion or VSG or even a Bunker or Aegis, you are depending alot on terrain to keep your heavies alive and shield you from alpha strikes. My meta definitely doesn't include enough terrain to rely on that. Are you sure that LVO will have sufficient terrain to keep the list viable if you don't have 1st turn? With Barbie, most people will seize on you on a 5+, and with other bonuses to sieze it seems like your Malantrhope, or Warlord might be an easy source of 1st blood to an army capable of alpha striking.

2) Could you outline some scenarios where Barbie needs a body guard like that? Assaulty deathstars like TWC or certain Demon builds I guess. How often does Swarmlord actually contribute more than as an Ammo Dump?

3) Fighter ace as you say can be downright broken. Are you sure LVO will allow it? They seem to be pursuing a much more open "anything goes" approach then they did at BAO, but I would assume such an approach would have limits.


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Tremble wrote:
Looks like I will be magnetizing my Fexes then, not built any yet, are they easy to magnetise? Are the arms heavy for small magnets? Think I have some 2mm and 3mm magnets kicking about somewhere.

3 mm is a little small because some of the wargear puts alot of torque on the connection point. I suggest 5 mm.

Tremble wrote:
I really like the idea of using Hive commander to outflank the warrior squad, if I go down this route do you think I still need the Venom? He was in the list to protect the main warrior squad as it advanced, but if they outflank is there any need for him?

Definitely. Once you've got a few games under your belt you will see that the primary methods for surviving with tyranids are venoms and Swooping. "Do I really need the Venom" is like saying "Do you think its important for me to roll saves?" It isn't required to field a legal army, but it would sure help if you want the army to be good.

Tremble wrote:
Is the Venom cannon worth it? I kinda like the idea of making one with it just to give me more options in the future - if I ever make LAN etc - but I have enough warriors that if it sucks in an assault type unit I can drop it.

No. Remember you warriors all have to shoot at the same target. Usually a cheaper deathspitter will do just as much damage.

tag8833 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'm new to 'nids myself and likewise love the look of warriors. but I've come upon the idea of deploying them as a back up to my gaunts to keep em in synapse. using them as sort of... Leuitenants on the battlefeild. thus allowing me to use my tyrants as needed without worrying about taking em out of synapse range of my gaunts

That works, and works fairly well. Shrikes, Zoeys and especially Malanthropes all perform that task slightly better, but that is certainly one of the best ways to use warriors.

If a squad of gants could take a single warrior as a Sargent character, it would dramatically improve the Tyranid codex and make both gants and Warriors more popular. [/quote
Word, I use Warriors as minimal " command squads" with pretty good success, I build them as x3, with a Strangle Cannon. So they can snipe with a pinning attack, hopefully from cover. Building one with a Venom, for future use sounds like a fine plan.

The outflanking Warrior Brood ( plus Prime) has no need for a Cannon, but if you have 5 points left over, well...why not? Rending Claws are a very efficient. CC choice and it is low cost. If you want to go crazy then look at adding Adrenal glands. Dang expensive though.


.

Tag8833: I play 99% of my games with the frontline guys so I know the terrain and rules very well. Rules can change but for now the fighter ace is allowed and if that changes oh well... It isn't the crux if my army.

Defending alpha strike is where my Malanthrope comes in. I've yet to play at a tourney with horrible terrain.. Mostly because I only go to upper tier tourneys. I don't need 15 pieces of ruins but a few is all I need.. After that it is toe in wherever and I don't run up the board I tend to take my time and make them come to the barb while my Flyrants reach out and soften them up.

The SL is so much more than just PE. Barbs without a scary cc body guard are very vulnerable IMO. Dread nights, wraith knights, thunder lords, daemons... Man'd much more can get in there and mess him up so I've always had a dima and now moved to the SL. My SL has yet to let me down.. Against mech heavy lists he is LESS cool but still functions nicely.

Turns out I didn't have to worry about choosing between a Tervigon and Tyrannofex, I got another one for Christmas. I've come up with a basic 1000 point list to help focus my painting.

Hive Tyrant with Wings, 2 TL Devourers and Electroshock Grubs

30 Termagants
Tervigon with Electroshock Grubs
3 Warriors with a Barbed Strangler

Carnifex with 2 TL Devourers
Tyrannofex with Electroshock Grubs

Hopefully it'll be a pretty base to expanding from.

I've got a few ideas on how to expand it with stuff I own.

A) I bought the Deathstorm box and would like to try out the formation some time.
B) I've got 60 Hormagaunts and some Genestealers I'd like to use at some point. I don't own any Venomthropes yet which seem like something I'd want to go with them and I think after doing the Termagants I won't be in a hurry to paint them.
C) I've got a bunch of cool monstrous creature to try out. This brings me to a new problem.

How do you deal with having more cool heavy choices than slots? I have 5 Carnifexes, Tyrannofex, Mawloc/Trygon, and Exocrine to fit in.

Btw to your point on terrain I've seen some bad tourneys in terms of terrain I just have yet to see that at major GT's. Last year I went to adepticon, tshift, Lvo, bao, brawl in the fall, nova, nova invitational, tshift invitational and a few smaller ones.. No issues. I ran a VSG at Bao though.. It was nice. You will get the odd table with little to no ruins and maybe just "area" terrain (name changed in 7th to something I can't remember, copses?) so I will only get 3+ vs the alpha unless I roll a 2 on strategic. In that case I deploy as defensively as I can. As a nid player I consider myself a god at finding the LoS blocking angles and getting as much cover as I can otherwise we die!

Crimson Heretic wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

Crimson Heretic wrote:
Hey all, sort new to nids and still fairly fresh to the game in general..looking for some list ideas based off of what i have..i play in a 100% relaxed none agressive area with close friends..if you guy/gals could give me pointers on building an alright list, i would appreciate it...heres what i got..

tyrant(none winged)
carnifex
x2 zoanthropes
venomthrope
40 termigaunts
16 hormagaunts
8 pants thiefs(gene stealers)+ broodlord
10 gargoyles
x3 tyranid warriors
x5 ripper swarms


its a slow process to gather the models that are decent or popular, because we lack a reliable GW store in our area

thank you

So 1200-1500? That's a tough one. You CANNOT build a TAC army with this list because your army just doesn't have the tools to do so. But I will offer whatever advice I can anyways. First off, does you or your opponents mind if you proxy? For example, would you or your opponents mind if you ran your hive tyrant on foot as a flyrant with 2x Brainleech Devourers? Or how about your carnifex with 2x Brainleech Devourers? What about if you run your termagants as 10 fleshborers (or spine-fists) and 10 devourers?

I think there is a decent formation you can use, called the Children of Crypus. It involves your genestealers + Broodlord. I will base your list off of that formation:

Spoiler:

Let me know if you'd rather not proxy.

Hive Tyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Wings, Hive Commander

Venomthrope
1x Zoanthrope
1x Zoanthrope

20x Termagants - 10x Fleshborers, 10x Devourers
20x Termagants - 10x Fleshborers, 10x Devourers
16x Hormagants
Children of Cryptus formation (8 genestealers + Broodlord)
3x Warriors - Rending Claws, 1x venom cannon
3x Rippers - Deestriking

10x Gargoyles

Carnifex - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers

I'm not sure exactly how many points this is (don't have my codex with me), but I think it is somewhere around 1300-pts.

Tactics for his army.

1. Genestealers should be infiltrating. Try to trail them back to be in range of your venomthrope. This way, they will be getting 2+ cover with any type of cover.

2. Use Hive Commander to outflank one of your units, whether it be 1 unit of devilgants or the dakkafex.

3. Use your gargoyles as a screening unit for the rest of the army. Make sure to trail at least 1 model back to within venomthrope shrouding range.

4. When advancing with your horde, always have at least a couple of units from each horde trailing back to your venomthrope to give them cover.

5. Rippers should be deepstriking in onto objectives.

6. The army on the whole should be advancing. The only unit(s) that won't is a unit that you leave on your home objective.

thank you for the reply, now how exactly do you implement the formation into a list? are their requirments at all? Also the gargoyles blinding venom, its worded kind of oddly in the codex, if you exhcange your attacks to blind an enemy unit, do you still need to roll to hit and to wound or no? Also can you break down a brood of two zoan's psyker phase..say they want to manifest warp blast..do you roll once to see if you can generate the warp blast...then resolve two attacks for the price of one?(psyker brood)

what would you all recommend for the next phase(next models to look into getting?) i was thinking a few nutsacks(the drop pod) and to curve out the rest of the carnifex brood?

Sky Tyrant Swarm question!

I want to run the Sky Tyrant Swarm Dataslate/Formation and I need help deciding how to kit out the unit. I do want to run unit 1 and unit 2, with 30 bodies per unit. So that would make the whole unit 60 gargoyles and the lone Flyrant. That is a lot of wounds and you can make the Flyrant/Skyrant your warlord, thus making it very difficult for the enemy to score Slay The Warlord.

Okay, so do I keep the Gargoyles cheap and no options? Or do I give them Adrenal glands and or Toxin sacs? I figure I could multi-assault vehicles with AV10 and glance them to death in combat. With poisoned attacks, I think a lot of things would fall ( monstrous creatures mostly ).

And then the Flyrant/Skyrant. Do I give him the typical loadout, or try making him a melee monster? With enough Bio-morphs and Bio-artefacts, I can get his strength up to 9 on the charge. Strong enough to threaten high AV vehicles and really high toughness monstrous creatures.

durecellrabbit wrote:
Turns out I didn't have to worry about choosing between a Tervigon and Tyrannofex, I got another one for Christmas. I've come up with a basic 1000 point list to help focus my painting.

Hive Tyrant with Wings, 2 TL Devourers and Electroshock Grubs

30 Termagants
Tervigon with Electroshock Grubs
3 Warriors with a Barbed Strangler

Carnifex with 2 TL Devourers
Tyrannofex with Electroshock Grubs

Hopefully it'll be a pretty base to expanding from.

I've got a few ideas on how to expand it with stuff I own.

A) I bought the Deathstorm box and would like to try out the formation some time.
B) I've got 60 Hormagaunts and some Genestealers I'd like to use at some point. I don't own any Venomthropes yet which seem like something I'd want to go with them and I think after doing the Termagants I won't be in a hurry to paint them.
C) I've got a bunch of cool monstrous creature to try out. This brings me to a new problem.

How do you deal with having more cool heavy choices than slots? I have 5 Carnifexes, Tyrannofex, Mawloc/Trygon, and Exocrine to fit in.

Well there are a couple of simple ways, one Formations. They are desperate from your CAD, so that can help. Also you can run multiple CADs, this one tends to ruffle some feathers, so you might not go that way.

But adding a Living Artillery Node (LAN) adds an Exocrene, and a Biovore Brood, plus a Warrior Brood, leaving all your heavy slots open.

iNcontroL wrote:
Btw to your point on terrain I've seen some bad tourneys in terms of terrain I just have yet to see that at major GT's. Last year I went to adepticon, tshift, Lvo, bao, brawl in the fall, nova, nova invitational, tshift invitational and a few smaller ones.. No issues. I ran a VSG at Bao though.. It was nice. You will get the odd table with little to no ruins and maybe just "area" terrain (name changed in 7th to something I can't remember, copses?) so I will only get 3+ vs the alpha unless I roll a 2 on strategic. In that case I deploy as defensively as I can. As a nid player I consider myself a god at finding the LoS blocking angles and getting as much cover as I can otherwise we die!

Plenty of lists have the firepower to take out a Flyrant for 1st blood even if it is drawing a 2+ cover save. I.E. Buffmander + Missilesides, Grav Cents in drop pods. Sterngaurd in drop pods, Tau with marker lights. Any list with more than 3 wave serpents, etc.

Are you willing to lose 1st blood and potentially warlord if you face those lists, or how do you plan on handling it?

I ask because my LVO list contains a VSG just to deny 1st blood which it does very, very well, and 1st blood is so important in BAO missions. I TO'd a BAO RTT, and only 4 games out of 27 went to the player who failed to get 1st blood. Winning 1st blood and the primary makes it so that losing the secondary isn't a major concern, and a list like yours is going to lose the secondary pretty often I imagine.


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Garukadon wrote:
Sky Tyrant Swarm question!

Spoiler:

I want to run the Sky Tyrant Swarm Dataslate/Formation and I need help deciding how to kit out the unit. I do want to run unit 1 and unit 2, with 30 bodies per unit. So that would make the whole unit 60 gargoyles and the lone Flyrant. That is a lot of wounds and you can make the Flyrant/Skyrant your warlord, thus making it very difficult for the enemy to score Slay The Warlord.

Okay, so do I keep the Gargoyles cheap and no options? Or do I give them Adrenal glands and or Toxin sacs? I figure I could multi-assault vehicles with AV10 and glance them to death in combat. With poisoned attacks, I think a lot of things would fall ( monstrous creatures mostly ).

And then the Flyrant/Skyrant. Do I give him the typical loadout, or try making him a melee monster? With enough Bio-morphs and Bio-artefacts, I can get his strength up to 9 on the charge. Strong enough to threaten high AV vehicles and really high toughness monstrous creatures.

Do not upgrade the gargoyles if you are running that many of them. Upgrades would be horribly expensive. Instead spend those points on something that can deal with whatever the Skytyrant can't which will be most of the opponent's army. If you multi-assault you lose furious charge, so AG won't help you with vehicles.

For the Flyrant, the best bet is BS+LW, Scything Talons, Electroshock Grubs, and Old Adversary.

I wouldn't run a unit containing 60 gargoyles. It will have a roughly equal foot print to the green tide (Gargs are on bigger bases than Orks), but won't have near the power in assault because the green tide at least has Nobz w/ Power Claws. If you've got the Gargoyles, give it a shot in one game, and then come back here and tell me I'm wrong.

Yes plenty of lists can get through a 2+ cover save. So you can reserve things and put the barb closer to entice them away from it or you can deploy away from buff mander and friends who are only range 36

If they get ignores cover on their cents yeah you're losing something if they go first unless you deny it (assuming it's the power). I have yet to feel like I need a VSG or sky shield to win.. Sure 1's happen and bad mu's but most of the time I'm fine. Gotta plan for the meta which right now is wave serpents, knights, daemon spawn and tau gun lines with suits.


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Also my list rarely loses secondary. I only have 2 easily killed units and I DS on objectives with obsec. I usually try for going second as well. My barb blob moves up the field sitting on objectives making it hard for them to get em out of fear of the SL and barb.

@Crimson Heretic
The Tyrannocytes and the Carnifexes would be a good addition, but you might also look into getting a second Flyrant as soon as you can as well. A pair will rule the roost.