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I'm mainly concerned that it makes the charge (3D6) into my Barbie while it is either invis or Grimoire or even cursed Earth. I'll duke it out 1 v 1, but I don't have that sort of support ability to help barbie out. Best I can do is hunt down whatever support unit is helping it out, it isn't worth an automatic perils to paroxism it.

By the way in close combat, the Brass Scorpion will do 1.67 unsaved wounds per turn to barbie (a little over 2 on the charge), while it will only take 1.23 back. Since it starts with 9 Hull points, and barbie starts with only 6 wounds, it had better be 1/2 dead by the time it gets in.

Barbie also loses to it in a pure shooting war. He is going to take 1.11 wounds from the blasts each turn, and another .55 wounds from the Assault 10 S6 AP3. Meanwhile if it is unbuffed but has front armor then it will take 2 Hull points back. So in 3.6 rounds of shooting it will kill a barbed heirodule who needs 5.2 rounds of shooting to kill it assuming it makes an average number IWND rolls.

tag8833 wrote:
I'm mainly concerned that it makes the charge (3D6) into my Barbie while it is either invis or Grimoire or even cursed Earth. I'll duke it out 1 v 1, but I don't have that sort of support ability to help barbie out. Best I can do is hunt down whatever support unit is helping it out, it isn't worth an automatic perils to paroxism it.

By the way in close combat, the Brass Scorpion will do 1.67 unsaved wounds per turn to barbie (a little over 2 on the charge), while it will only take 1.23 back. Since it starts with 9 Hull points, and barbie starts with only 6 wounds, it had better be 1/2 dead by the time it gets in.

Even better! That means it will take about 2 full turns to kill Barbie. Move your Barbie back and try not to let the scorpion assault him until Turn 3 if possible. By the time combat is over, then the only thing that the scorpion would have been able to do is kill Barbie and maybe score the objective in your backfield. Meanwhile, for the rest of your battle, assuming you guys are running 1850, its 1285 of Tyranids vs 1150 of Chaos. Really, the way to beat any deathstar-type army is to kill the support units and you already have an advantage in that department.

Barbie also loses to it in a pure shooting war. He is going to take 1.11 wounds from the blasts each turn, and another .55 wounds from the Assault 10 S6 AP3. Meanwhile if it is unbuffed but has front armor then it will take 2 Hull points back. So in 3.6 rounds of shooting it will kill a barbed heirodule who needs 5.2 rounds of shooting to kill it assuming it makes an average number IWND rolls.

How do you get 1.11 wounds from the "blasts"? The scorpion only fires 1 blast a turn. It should be .56W a turn from the blast.

Don't forget that the scorpion cannot fire its blast at Barbie until after it's killed the malanthrope first. Otherwise, Barbie will be getting 2+/3+ cover save.

Last point I forgot to add from my previous post.

7. If the Grimoire holder is an FMC, you can easily kill it with 3 flyrants. If Invisibility is on an MC (i.e. Belakor, KoS, Slaanesh DP), you can also easily kill it with 3 flyrants. If the Grimoire holder buffs the Invisible guy, kill the Grimoire holder. If the Grimoire guy and Invisible guy buff themselves, then shoot the stinking scorpion in the ass. In any case, your flyrants should always have an important target to shoot at.

All good points by Jim as usual

 jy2 wrote:

Barbie also loses to it in a pure shooting war. He is going to take 1.11 wounds from the blasts each turn, and another .55 wounds from the Assault 10 S6 AP3. Meanwhile if it is unbuffed but has front armor then it will take 2 Hull points back. So in 3.6 rounds of shooting it will kill a barbed heirodule who needs 5.2 rounds of shooting to kill it assuming it makes an average number IWND rolls.

How do you get 1.11 wounds from the "blasts"? The scorpion only fires 1 blast a turn. It should be .56W a turn from the blast.

I got the flamer and the blast weapon mixed up. 2 Flame templates is not near as scary.

Thanks for the Advice. Do you guys have thoughts on how I should deal with a Gauss Pylon? It's got the ability to take flyrants out with ease (Strength D Beam with Skyfire, 2D6 S6 AP3 shots), so I was thinking basically hide in reserves until Barbie Kills it.

tag8833 wrote:

Thanks for the Advice. Do you guys have thoughts on how I should deal with a Gauss Pylon? It's got the ability to take flyrants out with ease (Strength D Beam with Skyfire, 2D6 S6 AP3 shots), so I was thinking basically hide in reserves until Barbie Kills it.

It's not a big deal. First of all, as long as it doesn't roll a 6, then you will get cover saves from it. Within malanthrope range, you really don't have too much to worry about. Out of malanthrope range, it may hurt, but most likely, it'll take probably 2 turns for the pylon to kill 1 flyrant and that is assuming only 4+ jink.

However, here's the kicker. The Pylon can only snapshot at ground targets. So if you're really concerned about the Pylon, then you can just have your flyrants stay on the ground for 1 or maybe even 2 turns (until the Necron bargelords or wraithstars gets close).

BTW, it's not a Beam but just 3 shots. It's got Skyfire and Interceptor so can only snap-shot at units on the Ground, which is why it really isn't considered very good anymore by most Necron players.

As for the S6 shots, I think it is only 1D6 shots with I believe 18" range only (going off memory, don't have my book with me). You can avoid that.

BTW, it's only got 6HP's so get up in its grill with 3 egrub templates and 12 S10 shots and I believe you can take it out in no time. Now, the rest of the Necron army is what you should be more concerned about.

Skyfire works on flying monstrous creatures. It doesn't differentiate between gliding and swooping ones.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Skyfire works on flying monstrous creatures. It doesn't differentiate between gliding and swooping ones.

Woops! My bad.

Thanks for pointing that out.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ok, so after looking at the rules for the Gauss Pylon again, I'd like to make a couple of corrections.


Mistake: Flyrants can go into gliding mode against the Pylon. However, this makes no difference since the Pylon will still hit it at regular BS.

Solution: Team up against it with multiple flyrants with egrubs. Shoot at it with the barbed hierodule. Drop carnifexes in tyrannocytes near it if you run that unit. Jink with flyrants when targeted by the Pylon.


Mistake: Flux Arc is actually Heavy 2D6 (and not the D6 that I originally thought).

Solution: Its range is really short at only 18". You can easily avoid it. Also, the flux arc does not have Skyfire so your flyrants will be relatively safe against it in the air.

Any thoughts on Facing a Fell Blade?

Seems like I just ignore it and kill everything else. I still get cover save so long as it doesn't take out the malanthrope. But it is AV 14/13/12 with 12 Hull points, so Killing it would be quite difficult.

tag8833 wrote:
Any thoughts on Facing a Fell Blade?

Seems like I just ignore it and kill everything else. I still get cover save so long as it doesn't take out the malanthrope. But it is AV 14/13/12 with 12 Hull points, so Killing it would be quite difficult.

What does it's main gun do again? Honestly as long as it's not D/ignore cover you're probably fine. Otherwise, ignore that thing while Flyrants fly circles around it, you should be able to handle the diminished points of Imperials and it will almost always accomplish less that it's points against you. Now, if you do have to kill it, haywire flamers and rear armor glances are a wonderful thing. If you're podding in a fex, on the charge that will do a ton of damage to a superheavy.

tag8833 wrote:
Any thoughts on Facing a Fell Blade?

Seems like I just ignore it and kill everything else. I still get cover save so long as it doesn't take out the malanthrope. But it is AV 14/13/12 with 12 Hull points, so Killing it would be quite difficult.

The Fellblade is actually a really good tank, probably even the best baneblade-type tank around.

However, I wouldn't worry too much about it with flyrant-spam and malanthrope cover. You've got what it takes to survive its firepower so long as you can get cover. My advice? Ignore the darn thing and kill off the rest of the army. Or if you want to take out the tank, it'll probably take you at least 3 full turns to do so with 3 flyrants and your barbed hierodule. But honestly, don't bother unless you've got nothing else to kill.

 jifel wrote:

What does it's main gun do again? Honestly as long as it's not D/ignore cover you're probably fine. Otherwise, ignore that thing while Flyrants fly circles around it, you should be able to handle the diminished points of Imperials and it will almost always accomplish less that it's points against you. Now, if you do have to kill it, haywire flamers and rear armor glances are a wonderful thing. If you're podding in a fex, on the charge that will do a ton of damage to a superheavy.

It's got 2 main firing modes - either a 7" S8 AP3 blast or a 3" S9 AP2 Armorbane shot. Both shots are twin-linked and it doesn't ignore cover.

 jy2 wrote:
It's got 2 main firing modes - either a 7" S8 AP3 blast or a 3" S9 AP2 Armorbane shot. Both shots are twin-linked and it doesn't ignore cover.

Its also got a Quad Las-Cannon aka Assault 2, S9 AP2 48" which is probably enough to keep one flyrant jinking the whole game.

tag8833 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
It's got 2 main firing modes - either a 7" S8 AP3 blast or a 3" S9 AP2 Armorbane shot. Both shots are twin-linked and it doesn't ignore cover.

Its also got a Quad Las-Cannon aka Assault 2, S9 AP2 48" which is probably enough to keep one flyrant jinking the whole game.

I think it has 2 of those, they're it's sponsons. Being a Super Heavy it can shoot them at 2 different targets cant it? Could get a bit irritating making 2 Flyrants Jink all game.

Instead of jinking, keep a toe in terrain. 1 less save, but if it doesn't have skyfire there's a low chance of hitting.

Got a Cally practise game this coming Monday against this list

Flesh tearers strike force

Dante
Sang Priest: VV, jump pack

9 sang guard: banner, 2 power fists

1x 10 tac marines in pod: heavy flamer, melta, combi melta

6x 5 man assault squads in pod: 2 melta guns, combi melta

Iron hand Chapter master on bike, power fist, artificer, shield eternal

5 scouts

My list

Flyrant Tl Dev electro grubs - fighter ace
Flyrants TL dev electro grubs
Flyrants TL dev electro grubs

Malonthrope
3 x ds rippers
3 x ds rippers
3 x ds rippers

15 x Gargoyles
15 x Gargoyles
Dimachaeron

Mawloc
Mawloc
Mawloc
Tyrannocyte

I've always had trouble against drop pod lists, any advice for facing it?

The meltas only have 12" range, so put the gargoyles and rippers around(max coherency) your monstreous creatures so that he can not drop within range of them. Second tur he's very vulnerable to your charges.

Use the mawlocs on his sang priests (their attack is ap2 right?) So only the iron hands chapter master gets to save anything.

I think you're pretty well equiped. Also try to use buildings etc to create places where he can't drop.

killerdou wrote:
The meltas only have 12" range, so put the gargoyles and rippers around(max coherency) your monstreous creatures so that he can not drop within range of them. Second tur he's very vulnerable to your charges.

Use the mawlocs on his sang priests (their attack is ap2 right?) So only the iron hands chapter master gets to save anything.

I think you're pretty well equiped. Also try to use buildings etc to create places where he can't drop.

That was pretty much what I was thinking, I think he'll combine Dante, the priest, the Sang Guard and the Bikermaster for a baby Death Star, which I'll either ignore or just harass with Mawloc drops.

Would it be worth it against this kind of list to try and bait and draw with my objectives? So place them away from where I am deployed, to take advantage of my mobility.

rigeld2 wrote:
Instead of jinking, keep a toe in terrain. 1 less save, but if it doesn't have skyfire there's a low chance of hitting.

I find with 3 flyrants, it is pretty difficult to keep all 3 of them in terrain every turn. Usually I can pull it off on turn 1 and 2, but after that I need to respond to my opponent's movement, and usually that means 1 of the 3 flyrants is not on terrain.

Eldercaveman wrote:

killerdou wrote:
The meltas only have 12" range, so put the gargoyles and rippers around(max coherency) your monstreous creatures so that he can not drop within range of them. Second tur he's very vulnerable to your charges.

Use the mawlocs on his sang priests (their attack is ap2 right?) So only the iron hands chapter master gets to save anything.

I think you're pretty well equiped. Also try to use buildings etc to create places where he can't drop.

That was pretty much what I was thinking, I think he'll combine Dante, the priest, the Sang Guard and the Bikermaster for a baby Death Star, which I'll either ignore or just harass with Mawloc drops.

Would it be worth it against this kind of list to try and bait and draw with my objectives? So place them away from where I am deployed, to take advantage of my mobility.

I would, if nothing else it robs him of the pods objective holding power.

So up against an AM list you can face

3x Valk Skytalons - that is 6x hellstrike missiles
3x Vendetta - that is 9 TL lascannon shots
3x Avenger Strike Fighters - 6 Lascannon shots

This does not take into account the avenger bolt cannon or extra heavy bolters - both possible. At 18590 they likely can add reserve manipulation as well.

I've seen the worries over a Tau list with skyfire. AM can field even more offense against FMCs.

 felixcat wrote:

So up against an AM list you can face

3x Valk Skytalons - that is 6x hellstrike missiles
3x Vendetta - that is 9 TL lascannon shots
3x Avenger Strike Fighters - 6 Lascannon shots

This does not take into account the avenger bolt cannon or extra heavy bolters - both possible. At 18590 they likely can add reserve manipulation as well.

I've seen the worries over a Tau list with skyfire. AM can field even more offense against FMCs.

The reason I have no concerns over AM sky fire is because they don't ignore cover with any of those units... With three vendettas I will take one wound if I'm in a ruin with a Mal, and my return fire will do more. Plus, he will have crapoy ground presence, and I will control the board. Tau are bad for their ability to take sky fire units and then give them ignore cover.

 felixcat wrote:

So up against an AM list you can face

3x Valk Skytalons - that is 6x hellstrike missiles
3x Vendetta - that is 9 TL lascannon shots
3x Avenger Strike Fighters - 6 Lascannon shots

This does not take into account the avenger bolt cannon or extra heavy bolters - both possible. At 18590 they likely can add reserve manipulation as well.

I've seen the worries over a Tau list with skyfire. AM can field even more offense against FMCs.

That list is quite unbalanced.

Played agame against a friend at the LGS who will be attending the LVO in February and is testing out a couple different lists.

The list he tried out was centered around the Aquilla Strongpoint, using an Exarch's abilities to give the D cannon an extra (read: third) strength D shot at BS 5 which also ignores night fighting and jink due to the Eldar Exarch's rules from gear given by I think the Dark Reaper squad upgrades IIRC. In any case, some pretty crazy nonsense, but for a metric ton of points. I asked him how tough of a list he wanted me to bring and he requested the toughest, so out came a Pentyrant list. I just used the one JY2 gave a few pages back since I had those models with me (sans the fifth Flyrant, whose part would be played by a carnifex (and a dead Flyrant soon enough. Spoiler alert!) and a bastion that would serve as a good outline for a void shield generator, assuming it as transparent for LOS purposes).

His list also included 2 wave serpents and a knight errant. There was some other stuff too but that was the meat of it for the most part. He actually popped the void shields on both turn 1 and turn 2, dropping the D on 3 Flyrants (2 shots each) and a Malanthrope (3 shots) on turn 1. I figured it would be best to take good cover instead of spreading out and taking D3 wounds for each failed jink. Not enough wounds on a Flyrant for that haha! Wound up giving one Flyrant the D, earning him first blood. I was actually incredibly lucky that it wasn't worse. Out of 9 rolls, he got 1 six. In fairness, the Malanthrope wouldn't have been terrible to lose, but he certainly could have gotten 2 Flyrants right off the bat.

Fast forwarding WAY forward because this isn't worth any proper bat rep (my good friend really needs to get his dice checked out before the LVO) I can't remember the last time I'd seen such horrible luck. I was didn't fail a grounding check all game, and not for his lack of effort (or mine, for that matter). Just don't cast WC2 powers with a Flyrant. It's not worth it, I promise. Unless you're casting on 2 dice and have nothing better to do. FYI my only success that game using that method was double sixes anyhow. You know what they say about Lady Luck...

Anyhow the game went seven turns and he managed to kill exactly one Flyrant (the one that he gave the D to on turn one). He's a better general than I so the game was closer than it should have been, but close would still be a generous term. Absolutely brutal list, though his list was especially ill-equipped to deal with it. So is adlance though too, which is what he will probably actually wind up bringing to the LVO. In at case, we may very well see how many people decide to bring 4-5 Flyrants and place extremely well as a result. So very strong

 Tyran wrote:

 felixcat wrote:

So up against an AM list you can face

3x Valk Skytalons - that is 6x hellstrike missiles
3x Vendetta - that is 9 TL lascannon shots
3x Avenger Strike Fighters - 6 Lascannon shots

This does not take into account the avenger bolt cannon or extra heavy bolters - both possible. At 18590 they likely can add reserve manipulation as well.

I've seen the worries over a Tau list with skyfire. AM can field even more offense against FMCs.

That list is quite unbalanced.

Not to mention Valkyries and Vendettas are nearly the same size as the Harridan.. How on earth are you manoeuvring 9 of these things into favourable positions? What's stopping the 5 Flyrants from wiping out what little forces you've started on the board?

Also some maths. 6 BS3 + 9 BS3 TL shots = 3 + 6.75 hits = 9.75 hits per turn = 8.1 wounds per turn. Best case scenario you kill a Jinking Flyrant. However this gets worse fast if it has FnP, a foot in cover or a Mope/Vope nearby and this is assuming you somehow managed to get 6 giant planes all aiming at the same thing. So The bulk of your antiair can barley kill one per turn and the rest have 6 one use only missiles. Not a good plan.

Eldercaveman wrote:
Got a Cally practise game this coming Monday against this list

Flesh tearers strike force

Dante
Sang Priest: VV, jump pack

9 sang guard: banner, 2 power fists

1x 10 tac marines in pod: heavy flamer, melta, combi melta

6x 5 man assault squads in pod: 2 melta guns, combi melta

Iron hand Chapter master on bike, power fist, artificer, shield eternal

5 scouts

My list

Flyrant Tl Dev electro grubs - fighter ace
Flyrants TL dev electro grubs
Flyrants TL dev electro grubs

Malonthrope
3 x ds rippers
3 x ds rippers
3 x ds rippers

15 x Gargoyles
15 x Gargoyles
Dimachaeron

Mawloc
Mawloc
Mawloc
Tyrannocyte

I've always had trouble against drop pod lists, any advice for facing it?

Avoid that deathstar like a plague! And then come up on top of them with your mawlocs. LOL!

No, just kidding.

Ignore his deathstar. Bait them away with your dimachaeron. He should be able to kill some before dying when he gets charged. Kill all the tactical marines and drop pods first (if they're on objectives) and then deal with his deathstar last. You should have the advantage in this game. He's got nothing that can deal with your flyrants.

luke1705 wrote:
Played agame against a friend at the LGS who will be attending the LVO in February and is testing out a couple different lists.

The list he tried out was centered around the Aquilla Strongpoint, using an Exarch's abilities to give the D cannon an extra (read: third) strength D shot at BS 5 which also ignores night fighting and jink due to the Eldar Exarch's rules from gear given by I think the Dark Reaper squad upgrades IIRC. In any case, some pretty crazy nonsense, but for a metric ton of points. I asked him how tough of a list he wanted me to bring and he requested the toughest, so out came a Pentyrant list. I just used the one JY2 gave a few pages back since I had those models with me (sans the fifth Flyrant, whose part would be played by a carnifex (and a dead Flyrant soon enough. Spoiler alert!) and a bastion that would serve as a good outline for a void shield generator, assuming it as transparent for LOS purposes).

His list also included 2 wave serpents and a knight errant. There was some other stuff too but that was the meat of it for the most part. He actually popped the void shields on both turn 1 and turn 2, dropping the D on 3 Flyrants (2 shots each) and a Malanthrope (3 shots) on turn 1. I figured it would be best to take good cover instead of spreading out and taking D3 wounds for each failed jink. Not enough wounds on a Flyrant for that haha! Wound up giving one Flyrant the D, earning him first blood. I was actually incredibly lucky that it wasn't worse. Out of 9 rolls, he got 1 six. In fairness, the Malanthrope wouldn't have been terrible to lose, but he certainly could have gotten 2 Flyrants right off the bat.

Fast forwarding WAY forward because this isn't worth any proper bat rep (my good friend really needs to get his dice checked out before the LVO) I can't remember the last time I'd seen such horrible luck. I was didn't fail a grounding check all game, and not for his lack of effort (or mine, for that matter). Just don't cast WC2 powers with a Flyrant. It's not worth it, I promise. Unless you're casting on 2 dice and have nothing better to do. FYI my only success that game using that method was double sixes anyhow. You know what they say about Lady Luck...

Anyhow the game went seven turns and he managed to kill exactly one Flyrant (the one that he gave the D to on turn one). He's a better general than I so the game was closer than it should have been, but close would still be a generous term. Absolutely brutal list, though his list was especially ill-equipped to deal with it. So is adlance though too, which is what he will probably actually wind up bringing to the LVO. In at case, we may very well see how many people decide to bring 4-5 Flyrants and place extremely well as a result. So very strong

Yup, it's a meta-changer.

If I was running Tyranids at a tournament, I'd probably go 4 flyrants max unless it was a huge GT (like the LVO ).

@Jy2. That's pretty much what I planned on doing, I figured if I focus on killing everything else and making the most of my mobility and taking opportunistic shots at the death star with my Mawlocs, since the wounds come from the centre of the blasts chances are I can take a bit of the bite out of the unit by killing a few Sanguinary Guard.

tag8833 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Instead of jinking, keep a toe in terrain. 1 less save, but if it doesn't have skyfire there's a low chance of hitting.

I find with 3 flyrants, it is pretty difficult to keep all 3 of them in terrain every turn. Usually I can pull it off on turn 1 and 2, but after that I need to respond to my opponent's movement, and usually that means 1 of the 3 flyrants is not on terrain.

Umm.... its a 2 1/2 base, all you need it to be touching something.

Its not that hard, I play with 6 fliers almost always and only 1-2 are ever out of cover....

 Amishprn86 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Instead of jinking, keep a toe in terrain. 1 less save, but if it doesn't have skyfire there's a low chance of hitting.

I find with 3 flyrants, it is pretty difficult to keep all 3 of them in terrain every turn. Usually I can pull it off on turn 1 and 2, but after that I need to respond to my opponent's movement, and usually that means 1 of the 3 flyrants is not on terrain.

Umm.... its a 2 1/2 base, all you need it to be touching something.

Its not that hard, I play with 6 fliers almost always and only 1-2 are ever out of cover....

It really depends on how much terrain - or more importantly, ruins - that you play with.

 jy2 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Instead of jinking, keep a toe in terrain. 1 less save, but if it doesn't have skyfire there's a low chance of hitting.

I find with 3 flyrants, it is pretty difficult to keep all 3 of them in terrain every turn. Usually I can pull it off on turn 1 and 2, but after that I need to respond to my opponent's movement, and usually that means 1 of the 3 flyrants is not on terrain.

Umm.... its a 2 1/2 base, all you need it to be touching something.

Its not that hard, I play with 6 fliers almost always and only 1-2 are ever out of cover....

It really depends on how much terrain - or more importantly, ruins - that you play with.

Also intervening models works for a 5+ too, doesnt matter if its swooping or gliding, model in front of the MC's gives it a 5+

I dont always have a 4+, but sometimes a 5+ is good enough, if 4 shots are hitting 3 hit, needing 3 to wound it would be a 1.5 wonds with 5+ save I dont care to jink always.

So, LVO finally released their FAQ. 3 Rules changes blew up the list I had been practicing with.
1) Tyrannocytes shoot like vehicles with hull mounted weapons
2) Void Shields extend to all models in a unit, not just those in range of the shield.
3) Tank Traps are ignored by walkers and super heavy walkers. (WTF?)
I'm headed to the event, and so I've got to go back to the drawing board for my list. I imagine I'm the most affected player in this thread, but figured I'd mention it.

tag8833 wrote:
So, LVO finally released their FAQ. 3 Rules changes blew up the list I had been practicing with.
1) Tyrannocytes shoot like vehicles with hull mounted weapons
2) Void Shields extend to all models in a unit, not just those in range of the shield.
3) Tank Traps are ignored by walkers and super heavy walkers. (WTF?)
I'm headed to the event, and so I've got to go back to the drawing board for my list. I imagine I'm the most affected player in this thread, but figured I'd mention it.

Those sound..... last time I check MC's can shoot 360, Walkers are vehicles and the rules fpr void shield I can see it only effecting models inside the "Zone"