The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)

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**jifel**

luke1705 wrote:
Sean Nayden has officially won his second Grand Tournament with his #Lictorshame list. He actually lost a game to the man that he played in the finals before the round of 8 began but got the retribution W when it counted, quite convincingly in the end. It was close but the Nids pulled it out

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gotta love how many people said his list was just a result of the 11th company missions. Way to go Sean! Even taking down Nick Nanavati in the Quarterfinals

I'll admit I was one of the people who attributed the Lictorshame success to the 11th Company missions. I still think Missions helped here, (I personally wouldn't take Lictors in a no-maelstrom GT) but I must concede that the list concept is stronger than I realized. I don't think I'll be copying it just yet, as I like doing my own thing, but it's still an incredibly impressive victory to take the LVO, such a large GT. Kudos indeed to Sean!

**Byte**

krootman. wrote:
All this talk about nids kind of got me on the band wagon, I need something else to play competitively, when I need a break from my eldar (the army I plan on running for this years gt season).

Tyranid Cad

Hive tyrant
-wings, 2 pairs of devours, bioshock grub
240
Hive tyrant
-wings, 2 pairs of devours, bioshock grub
240

Lictor 50
Lictor 50
Malenthrope 85

Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15

Spore mine cluster 15
Spore mine cluster 15
Spore mine cluster 15

Bastion w/ coms 95

Leviathan Detachment

Hive tyrant
-wings, 2 pairs of devours, bioshock grub
240
Hive tyrant
-wings, 2 pairs of devours, bioshock grub
240

Lictor 50
Lictor 50
Lictor 50

Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15

Spore mine cluster 15
Spore mine cluster 15
Spore mine cluster 15

Malwoc 140
Malwoc 140

1850 on the dot

So the army has zero obsec, but has the ability to deploy up to 12 units on the board that do not give anything up in match ups where I have to null deploy. In match ups that I deploy, the malenthrope will come in handy, as well as always being there if I ever need to run to it to get shrouded. I have the bastion and the malenthrope as backfield holders, along with the lictors and malwocs to grab and contest other objectives.

I put the malwocs in the levi detachment in-case I find myself having to test for being out of synapse. I think on paper this list is pretty solid, but in terms of real world game play its going to require a high learning curve to get right. I only played it once, and the spore mines and mucloids were monsters. I honestly think they are some of the best units in the game lol. I think tau will be the most difficult matchup, and I plan to screw around with this list as much as I can between lvo and adepticon.

Thoughts?

Pretty much the list that just won the LVO. Fortuitous. Bravo.

**SHUPPET**

So that's twice now. I can't wait for the frantic explanations about how 5 Tyrant is still the most competitive list in our dex tho

**luke1705**

Krootman's list is also essentially the list that I've been running. Should have gone to the LVO

But Sean did have a unit of obsec rippers. I've been running two ripper units. Having three Mawlocs is also nice, no doubt about it. I sacrificed one Mawloc and a ton of spore mines from Sean's list to grab a fourth Flyrant. Have to be really impressed with Sean not running the Malanthrope though

Automatically Appended Next Post:

SHUPPET wrote:
So that's twice now. I can't wait for the frantic explanations about how 5 Tyrant is still the most competitive list in our dex tho

5 Flyrants gives up support units. No doubt about it. Turns out that in some cases, it's better to have that support. I don't think many people questioned it. The thing I'll be experimenting with is if four Flyrants is the sweet spot or not

**jifel**

SHUPPET wrote:
So that's twice now. I can't wait for the frantic explanations about how 5 Tyrant is still the most competitive list in our dex tho

I think everyone but JY2 will now agree to that fact!

I have never used 5 Flyrants, I never will. 3 seems like the perfect number.

**winterman**

Benlisted wrote:
tag8833 wrote:
Frozocrone wrote:
Can we all just take a moment to appreciate Sean and LictorShame? Rooting for a Tyranid win!

That said, I've only just entered FLG twitch and it's T5 so I have no knowledge about how the battle has gone down
he pulled it out. Two mawlocs got 6'd, but he was running a list more tolerant to such things than me, and so he won it. I'm super impressed.

It was great seeing how he ran his list. I understand how it works more, and will have to give something similar a try.

My main query with it is how does he use the Guards (and the Spores to a lesser extent)? The list is certainly unique, someone posted it in the LVO thread; http://i.imgur.com/7oeFVCP.jpg

The tyrant guards are kinda clever. They are deck chairs. They don't eat themselves like rippers would. Don't run off the board like gaunts would. Are T6, 3+ save and are about as good in assault as his lictors. So its just more MSU annoyance like the rest of his list.

Spores run the comms relay and help hold down the fort turn 1. They don't give up first blood or killpoints, so kinda work well in MSU like this. Then they are just annoyance. Block things, provide coversaves, maybe get lucky and assault.

**tetrisphreak**

Spore mines are also great for soaking overwatch when applicable.

**Eldercaveman**

Is the video of Sean's last game available to watch?

**997Turbo**

I wonder how much the high quantity of line of sight blocking terrain attributed to the success of the Tyranids taking LVO. I have a hard time seeing how this beats heavy skyfire tau or triple wraithknight Eldar. Maybe I'm just missing something.

**RiTides**

Eldercaveman wrote:
Is the video of Sean's last game available to watch?

Not right at this moment, but they streamed it so I think will be uploading the recording in a few days. I'll definitely watch it when they do!

**tag8833**

997Turbo wrote:
I wonder how much the high quantity of line of sight blocking terrain attributed to the success of the Tyranids taking LVO. I have a hard time seeing how this beats heavy skyfire tau or triple wraithknight Eldar. Maybe I'm just missing something.

the final games had a ton of it. All three times I played Eldar it was a Shooting gallery. Against necrons and orks there was one big Los blocker. Kind of hit or miss.

Both of my losses had significant pregame debate defining terrain. This tourney I was introduced to the theory of "line of sight blocking terrain". The idea is it grants no cover save unless you are 100% obscured. This is BS right? I argued until opponents agreed to a 5+ if I am 25% obscured.

At the tourneys I run we define terrain more clearly, but we only have 12 or so tables to worry about, and can generally select terrain pieces that are obvious, and make all tables basically the same. At other Rtts I've attended players define their own terrain with no guidance at all, but I've never had as much trouble coming to an agreement.

**997Turbo**

Interesting on the terrain....hopefully the winner posts a recap in here, as I would be curious to see how he dealt with the traditional bad match ups for Tyranids...especially without a Malanthrope. Perhaps he was reserving the flyrants a lot.

**winterman**

tag8833 wrote:
This tourney I was introduced to the theory of "line of sight blocking terrain". The idea is it grants no cover save unless you are 100% obscured. This is BS right? I argued until opponents agreed to a 5+ if I am 25% obscured.

That's not the idea at all. Those 'can' terrain pieces and similar block LOS 100% even though there are gaps and such where by RAW you can see. in other words it's suppose to mean more actual los blocking rather than just cover save granting. You still get cover save though if even counting the gaps as solid your opponent see you (like around a corner) Sounds like at best some folks were confused.

**Wilson**

Sean seems to be an incredibly good player. Just goes to show that you cant just copy and paste a list and expect a win.

**Therion**

So, based on the success and hype behind Flyrants, is everybody now going to 'Come the Apocalypse' ally the Tyranid Leviathan detachment with 3 Flyrants into their force, like Justin Cook did with his Tau? Eldar are bringing Hive Tyrants next?

**Eldercaveman**

Therion wrote:
So, based on the success and hype behind Flyrants, is everybody now going to 'Come the Apocalypse' ally the Tyranid Leviathan detachment with 3 Flyrants into their force, like Justin Cook did with his Tau? Eldar are bringing Hive Tyrants next?

In the same way that a lot of armies are adding in SummonSeers with min Jetbikes as come the apocalypse allies, yes a lot of people are adding in 3 Flyrants and 3 Mucoloids.

**frgsinwntr**

Eldercaveman wrote:
Therion wrote:
So, based on the success and hype behind Flyrants, is everybody now going to 'Come the Apocalypse' ally the Tyranid Leviathan detachment with 3 Flyrants into their force, like Justin Cook did with his Tau? Eldar are bringing Hive Tyrants next?

In the same way that a lot of armies are adding in SummonSeers with min Jetbikes as come the apocalypse allies, yes a lot of people are adding in 3 Flyrants and 3 Mucoloids.

The Tripple flyrant is like the dakkafex spam of 4th edition on steroids.... except now they are harder to hit and can usually get to back armor (flyers), have psyker powers, and can glance vehicles to death with just 3 glances...

expect to see them everywhere

**jy2**

frgsinwntr wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
Therion wrote:
So, based on the success and hype behind Flyrants, is everybody now going to 'Come the Apocalypse' ally the Tyranid Leviathan detachment with 3 Flyrants into their force, like Justin Cook did with his Tau? Eldar are bringing Hive Tyrants next?

In the same way that a lot of armies are adding in SummonSeers with min Jetbikes as come the apocalypse allies, yes a lot of people are adding in 3 Flyrants and 3 Mucoloids.

The Tripple flyrant is like the dakkafex spam of 4th edition on steroids.... except now they are harder to hit and can usually get to back armor (flyers), have psyker powers, and can glance vehicles to death with just 3 glances...

expect to see them everywhere

Correct. It is an emerging trend because Leviathan is just so good. Just like the Tau Firebase Cadre, you can slap on Leviathan to almost any list and they will make it better.

I myself almost brought Necrons + Leviathan.

Justin Cook aka thanatos67, who placed 10th overall, brought Tau + Leviathan.

There were 2 players who brought Daemons/Daemon Summoning + Leviathan, including Alan "Pajamapants" barajmovic (who finished 11th overall) and another guy who finished 37th.

Andrew aka Coldsteel brought Adlance + Leviathan.

**Frozocrone**

Makes me want to try a Leviathan/Firebase list and see how well it does.

Something like 1500:

Flyrant
Flyrant
Flyrant
DS Rippers
DS Rippers
DS Rippers

MissileSides w/ 2x EWO, 1x TL
MissileSides w/ 2x EWO, 1x TL
Riptide w/ IA, EWO, Fnp, TL Fusion

Only thing that's missing is a Malanthrope and Sean's ingenious use of a single Tyrant Guard w/ AG

**Therion**

jy2 wrote:
frgsinwntr wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
Therion wrote:
So, based on the success and hype behind Flyrants, is everybody now going to 'Come the Apocalypse' ally the Tyranid Leviathan detachment with 3 Flyrants into their force, like Justin Cook did with his Tau? Eldar are bringing Hive Tyrants next?

In the same way that a lot of armies are adding in SummonSeers with min Jetbikes as come the apocalypse allies, yes a lot of people are adding in 3 Flyrants and 3 Mucoloids.

The Tripple flyrant is like the dakkafex spam of 4th edition on steroids.... except now they are harder to hit and can usually get to back armor (flyers), have psyker powers, and can glance vehicles to death with just 3 glances...

expect to see them everywhere

I myself almost brought Necrons + Leviathan.

Off the top of your head what would that army, roughly, look like? The Leviathan costs about 800 points, so what would the Necron contingent have? Since you play Tyranids I suppose you came to the conclusion that Necrons/Nids aren't better than just Nids.

**jifel**

I don't think Flyrants are quite as good as everyone is saying. Look on Torrent of Fire, the overall results for Nids are rather poor, with a 46.79 percent win rate. Below average for sure and even more so considering Nids won it all. There were quite a few lists of "add 3 Flyrants" but I don't think it worked quite as well as everyone thought. Now we certainly aren't a bad codex, but I don't think that non-Tyranid players should just slap an extra Leviathan detachment in and expect instant profit.

**tetrisphreak**

The flyrants are a toolkit that can handle enemy flyers and force saves on ground troops, and wreck av10-11 pretty reliably. Past that, they won't typically earn many points in games because they're best when swooping.

OrdoSean uses his single model MSU to score points and finish off units the flyrants have weakened. His ability to precision deep strike means he plays the game on his terms rather than what his opponents would prefer he does.

If we see a sudden tyranid meta full of lictorshame style lists, I doubt they'll be winning every GT or RTT - Sean has a lot of skill piloting his list and that is hard to duplicate.

**Eldercaveman**

I still find my Flyrants to be incredibly fragile glass hammers, and that when my opponents want one dead, they can damn well nearly always achieve it. They are, to me, a scalpel unit rather than a sledge hammer like say a Wolfstars is.

I was at a tournament this weekend and I ran 4 which I found was a nice balance, between enough flyrants to take a loss of one or two and it not hurt my army too much and support units.

**N.I.B.**

Yay Tyranids! Congrats to OrdoSean, really inspiring how your out-of-the-box thinking put Nids on top.

Frozocrone wrote:

So I have a unique challenge tomorrow, the store manager has 10 Lychguard models with Hyperphase Swords and Dispersion fields that is 300 points total.

The challenge is that you may only take one unit and spend up to 300 points. Other restrictions include only one unit, no characters and no Flyers/FMC's.

Personally I think two Dakkafexen in a unit (300 exact) should be able to handle it, but what would you bring?

14 Genestealers with Toxin Sacs and Scything Talons, 294 pts. If they get the charge they drop the Lychguards after four rounds of combat, unless I derped the math.

tag8833 wrote:

I've been rereading all of my rules in prep for LVO, and I noticed something in the Sporefield formation in the "Sporefield" rule.
"Victory points are awarded as normal for new units in this formation that have been completely destroyed."

All of the units in that formation are spore mines, and spore mines do not award victory points when destroyed. So I guess awarding them as normal, means not awarding them, right?

That sounds to me more like a deliberate misreading of how the rule is intended. That sentence in the Sporefield rules would have been entirely superflous if GW didn't want them to count as kill points after coming back.

**Tyran**

SHUPPET wrote:
So that's twice now. I can't wait for the frantic explanations about how 5 Tyrant is still the most competitive list in our dex tho

Sean is the most competitive choice in our codex.

**tetrisphreak**

Tyran wrote:
SHUPPET wrote:
So that's twice now. I can't wait for the frantic explanations about how 5 Tyrant is still the most competitive list in our dex tho

Sean is the most competitive choice in our codex.

Exalted. Lol

**krootman.**

SHUPPET wrote:
So that's twice now. I can't wait for the frantic explanations about how 5 Tyrant is still the most competitive list in our dex tho

Yea, it doesn't have the legs to get through a competitive event Imo. I played jy2 5 flyrant list in kps at lvo with my eldar, and while I had above average dice, the list just doesn't have enough board presence, and has a real hard time with the malestrom. It also has a hell of a time with wraith knights

In itc format, not winning the malestrom is big as I found out. I actually lost it in 4 of my 6 games and because of that, when I lost round 6 in the mirror (the lynx got me :( ) I ended up dropping from 4 to 21st overall.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Byte wrote:
krootman. wrote:
All this talk about nids kind of got me on the band wagon, I need something else to play competitively, when I need a break from my eldar (the army I plan on running for this years gt season).

Tyranid Cad

Hive tyrant
-wings, 2 pairs of devours, bioshock grub
240
Hive tyrant
-wings, 2 pairs of devours, bioshock grub
240

Lictor 50
Lictor 50
Malenthrope 85

Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15

Spore mine cluster 15
Spore mine cluster 15
Spore mine cluster 15

Bastion w/ coms 95

Leviathan Detachment

Hive tyrant
-wings, 2 pairs of devours, bioshock grub
240
Hive tyrant
-wings, 2 pairs of devours, bioshock grub
240

Lictor 50
Lictor 50
Lictor 50

Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15

Spore mine cluster 15
Spore mine cluster 15
Spore mine cluster 15

Malwoc 140
Malwoc 140

1850 on the dot

So the army has zero obsec, but has the ability to deploy up to 12 units on the board that do not give anything up in match ups where I have to null deploy. In match ups that I deploy, the malenthrope will come in handy, as well as always being there if I ever need to run to it to get shrouded. I have the bastion and the malenthrope as backfield holders, along with the lictors and malwocs to grab and contest other objectives.

I put the malwocs in the levi detachment in-case I find myself having to test for being out of synapse. I think on paper this list is pretty solid, but in terms of real world game play its going to require a high learning curve to get right. I only played it once, and the spore mines and mucloids were monsters. I honestly think they are some of the best units in the game lol. I think tau will be the most difficult matchup, and I plan to screw around with this list as much as I can between lvo and adepticon.

Thoughts?

Pretty much the list that just won the LVO. Fortuitous. Bravo.

I tried to get hI'm to run 4 flyrants, but he wouldn't listen
Guess he didn't need to though

he played a hell of an event, besides nick, cook and myself, there's no one else I was rooting for.more

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Byte wrote:
krootman. wrote:
All this talk about nids kind of got me on the band wagon, I need something else to play competitively, when I need a break from my eldar (the army I plan on running for this years gt season).

Tyranid Cad

Hive tyrant
-wings, 2 pairs of devours, bioshock grub
240
Hive tyrant
-wings, 2 pairs of devours, bioshock grub
240

Lictor 50
Lictor 50
Malenthrope 85

Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15

Spore mine cluster 15
Spore mine cluster 15
Spore mine cluster 15

Bastion w/ coms 95

Leviathan Detachment

Hive tyrant
-wings, 2 pairs of devours, bioshock grub
240
Hive tyrant
-wings, 2 pairs of devours, bioshock grub
240

Lictor 50
Lictor 50
Lictor 50

Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15

Spore mine cluster 15
Spore mine cluster 15
Spore mine cluster 15

Malwoc 140
Malwoc 140

1850 on the dot

So the army has zero obsec, but has the ability to deploy up to 12 units on the board that do not give anything up in match ups where I have to null deploy. In match ups that I deploy, the malenthrope will come in handy, as well as always being there if I ever need to run to it to get shrouded. I have the bastion and the malenthrope as backfield holders, along with the lictors and malwocs to grab and contest other objectives.

I put the malwocs in the levi detachment in-case I find myself having to test for being out of synapse. I think on paper this list is pretty solid, but in terms of real world game play its going to require a high learning curve to get right. I only played it once, and the spore mines and mucloids were monsters. I honestly think they are some of the best units in the game lol. I think tau will be the most difficult matchup, and I plan to screw around with this list as much as I can between lvo and adepticon.

Thoughts?

Pretty much the list that just won the LVO. Fortuitous. Bravo.

I tried to get him to run 4 flyrants, but he wouldn't listen
Guess he didn't need to though

. He is pretty much one of the best nid players in the world, and was the first person i went to for advice on my nid list. he played a hell of an event, besides nick, cook and myself, there's no one else I was rooting for.more

**Gamerely**

Something I found irritating in other threads were just... the sour grapes from other people. "Ugh Tyranid codex is the weakest codex in the game, he only won because he cheesed. That's not a legit win." Come on man. Not like he didn't play against an Eldar running like 5 wave serpents. "Ugh I wish people played their armies like they're supposed to in the fluff." Peeps are lame. *on a completely different forum*

**Byte**

Mono nids ftw! Wow. Great showing! People are just hating because its nids and they're scary.

**Zach**

I'm pretty impressed with his performance, I was lucky enough to be able to drunkenly watch his game against the Eldar from start to finish.