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 Frozocrone wrote:
The new Imperial Knights are disgusting but after Craftworlds they needed a leg up.

So there are now Skyfiring Knights which iis good, but it is nothing compared to Household detachment which gives them Obj sec.

My picj up and play scene just took a turn for the worst

Not really. They got a little bit better. They also got a little bit worse.

Mainly, they've become Lord of Wars. That's bad for the following reasons:

1. Most tournaments in the US - ITC, Adepticon, Nova - only allow 0-1 Super-heavy/Gargantuan LoW. Nova actually currently doesn't allow any at all. Until they change it here, you CANNOT legally run a knight army in a lot of US tournaments.

2. You always get +1 to Seize against the army.

3. They aren't much harder to kill with our flyrants than before.

4. For every Super-heavy LoW you kill, you get an additional +2VP's. So kill 3 knights and you've got a +6VP advantage. That's like getting 2 free objectives!

 Iechine wrote:
What do they have going for them now? Work has it to where I just cant keep up. : /

EDIT: Against Tyranids, I should ask.

Well, they can take the equivalent of a Quad-gun (not sure if it's twin-linked though) for anti-air. After that, not really much has changed, other than the fact that each knight is a Lord of War Super-heavy and they can also be Objective Secured depending on what formations you take.

They've also got a lot of formations to choose from.

Oh, and they've become a little more customizable than before. Before, they had no options whatsoever. Now, you can take them with 2 CC-weapons, 1 CC + 1 gun or 2 guns. You can also take a carapace-mounted gun for them as well (that's where you can give them anti-air firepower).

Really? Does the Escalation rulebook apply in standard 40k games?

If so, I'm going to claim a draw right from under my friends nose xD

tag8833 wrote:
Went to an RTT yesterday. Newdar was in, and un-nerfed. Just under 1/2 of the armies had a wraith Knight. IG + Wraith Knight. Marines + Wraith Knight. Eldar + Wratih Knight.

That new formation that allows you to take 1 Wraith Knight and noting else made it a very popular inclusion. I got to final table with my Green Tide vs a Tau Gunline and lost to the Tau, but IG + Wraith Knight was 2nd.

I really don't like that mechanic. It's stupid to just add 1 wraithknight to any army or 1 unit of Flayed Ones or even 1 Lord of Skulls to any army. Sh*t, we are spiraling more and more towards Unbound with some of these "formations". Thank goodness TO's are not stupid enough to go by pure GW RAW and are doing a lot of house-ruling.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Really? Does the Escalation rulebook apply in standard 40k games?

If so, I'm going to claim a draw right from under my friends nose xD

Escalation is as official as Stronghold Assault, so if you have the book, then you can use it. Just check with the TO in your meta. In our meta, which is basically the ITC, then yes, they do give up +1VP/3HP's you take from them. We also have a 0-1 limit on LoW's in our meta.

Note - Escalation is slightly outdated so you do have to check it's FAQ's. For example, you don't use the Destroyer table in the Escalation book and instead use the Destroyer table in the BRB (the Escalation FAQ tells you to do this).

 Iechine wrote:
What do they have going for them now? Work has it to where I just cant keep up. : /

EDIT: Against Tyranids, I should ask.

A quad gun equivalent upgrade, and the new Gatling gun which is Str 6 Ap3 Heavy 12, Rending!

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
What do they have going for them now? Work has it to where I just cant keep up. : /

EDIT: Against Tyranids, I should ask.

A quad gun equivalent upgrade, and the new Gatling gun which is Str 6 Ap3 Heavy 12, Rending!

Eeesh the gatling thing isn't skyfire is it?

 astro_nomicon wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
What do they have going for them now? Work has it to where I just cant keep up. : /

EDIT: Against Tyranids, I should ask.

A quad gun equivalent upgrade, and the new Gatling gun which is Str 6 Ap3 Heavy 12, Rending!

Eeesh the gatling thing isn't skyfire is it?

No, it's not.

still dangerous by weight of fire, and may the lords of the warp have mercy on your flyrants if they waltz over to a skyfire nexus.

Ugh lame.

Finally getting ready for Killadelphia next weekend. Made new magnetized arms for my Superbeast Tyrant, here is his Reaper of Obliterax:





What kind of changes are we expecting with an all-too-soon to be released Tyranid dex? Will Exocrines get D? Will Tyrants gain AP values? Will 2+ saves be a thing again?

What is everyone's opinion on skyblight vs craftworld eldar? I feel like bringing DS gargoyles back on a 4+ is pretty nice, especially with lictors to guide them in. The harpies also seem like less of a tax now, since their vector strike can actually hurt bikes, and the TL stranglethorn cannon also has the ability to put a hurt on bikes.

I've been working on two lists, and would love some input on them:

Skyblight
flyrant w/ 2x devs and e-grubs
2x harpies
crone
3x10 gargoyles

CAD
2x flyrants w/ 2x devs and e-grubs
3x lictors
2x3 rippers w/ DS
2x mawlocs

or

Skyblight
flyrant w/ 2x devs and e-grubs
2x harpies
crone
3x10 gargoyles

LAN
3x warriors w/ barbed strangler
2x biovores
exocrine

CAD
2x flyrants w/ 2x devs and e-grubs
mucolid
3x rippers with DS
Tyrannocyte

The first list uses lictors to guide mawlocs and gargs in and works more toward scoring. I think this list is best used in maelstrom type games. The second list has a stronger focus on shooting, with the artillery node providing out of LoS shooting from the biovores as well as the exocrine in the tyrannocyte as a sort of beta strike. Any thoughts would be appreciated as I'm still pretty new to nids.

tag8833 wrote:
Went to an RTT yesterday. Newdar was in, and un-nerfed. Just under 1/2 of the armies had a wraith Knight. IG + Wraith Knight. Marines + Wraith Knight. Eldar + Wratih Knight.

That new formation that allows you to take 1 Wraith Knight and noting else made it a very popular inclusion. I got to final table with my Green Tide vs a Tau Gunline and lost to the Tau, but IG + Wraith Knight was 2nd.

That isn't actually a formation. It's an auxillary choice in the craftworld warhost formation, but can't be taken on it's own. The only formations in the eldar codex are the guardian battlehost, guardian stormhost, windrider host, seer council, aspect host, dire avenger shrine, crimson death, and the wraith host.

Ok, I got my book out and looked it up. The quote you listed above is indeed a quote from the book:

The following list summarises the rules for battlefield debris that can be purchased as an upgrade to a fortification, or as fortifications in their own right.

But, this is in regards to a list of the following: Ammunition Dump, Barricades and Walls, Comms Relay, Defense Lines, Gun Emplacements, Imperial Statuary, Tanglewire, Tank Traps, and Wreckage and Rubble. Now some of the list is available as separate fortifications, such as Defense Lines (Aegis) and the Imperial Statuary. I do not believe this means that all of the list can be taken as individuals, or as upgrades. The inverse of this is that an Imperial Statuary could also be taken as an upgrade to a Fortification, which I do not believe is true. The intended reading of the quoted line is, I believe, that some of the items listed below it are upgrades, and some are fortifications. If nothing else, there is no datasheet or points cost for taking a Comms Relay on its own. The only points assigned are when it is specifically listed as an upgrade, there is no section that states how many points it is as a stand alone unit or Fortification.

My conclusion, therefore, is that it still may not be taken as a stand alone fortification sadly.

Just got back from a Highlander tourney this weekend - was really good, ended up 5th with Nids! Noone expected the 3 FMCs I brought, and skyfire was sparse. Took Regen on 4 MCs and felt it generally didn't really pull its weight - especially on Harpies/Crones. Dakkafex in a pod was an absolute hero, sniping Shadowsun off the relic last turn to net me a draw against a brutal Farsight bomb list. The pod itself was also incredible - the sheer weight of Str6 fire from it (took VCs), the fex and the flyrant were doing huge damage. I really would recommend the VCs, though their effectiveness drops if facing Marines (which I happened to not). I think I wanna try 2x Fexes in pods in normal games now! Other highlights include the Zoanthrope 1-shotting a 5 HP forgeworld LR and the Venomthrope doing about 9 wounds to a dronestar with Toxic Miasma. The latter made me wonder about the Hypertoxic node - if you can plant the Venoms in cover it's hard to displace them and you are guaranteed to get it off VS anything without assault nades.

Benlisted wrote:
Just got back from a Highlander tourney this weekend - was really good, ended up 5th with Nids! Noone expected the 3 FMCs I brought, and skyfire was sparse. Took Regen on 4 MCs and felt it generally didn't really pull its weight - especially on Harpies/Crones. Dakkafex in a pod was an absolute hero, sniping Shadowsun off the relic last turn to net me a draw against a brutal Farsight bomb list. The pod itself was also incredible - the sheer weight of Str6 fire from it (took VCs), the fex and the flyrant were doing huge damage. I really would recommend the VCs, though their effectiveness drops if facing Marines (which I happened to not). I think I wanna try 2x Fexes in pods in normal games now! Other highlights include the Zoanthrope 1-shotting a 5 HP forgeworld LR and the Venomthrope doing about 9 wounds to a dronestar with Toxic Miasma. The latter made me wonder about the Hypertoxic node - if you can plant the Venoms in cover it's hard to displace them and you are guaranteed to get it off VS anything without assault nades.

Were you at the Warzone Wednesbury event?

 jy2 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
Went to an RTT yesterday. Newdar was in, and un-nerfed. Just under 1/2 of the armies had a wraith Knight. IG + Wraith Knight. Marines + Wraith Knight. Eldar + Wratih Knight.

That new formation that allows you to take 1 Wraith Knight and noting else made it a very popular inclusion. I got to final table with my Green Tide vs a Tau Gunline and lost to the Tau, but IG + Wraith Knight was 2nd.

I really don't like that mechanic. It's stupid to just add 1 wraithknight to any army or 1 unit of Flayed Ones or even 1 Lord of Skulls to any army. Sh*t, we are spiraling more and more towards Unbound with some of these "formations". Thank goodness TO's are not stupid enough to go by pure GW RAW and are doing a lot of house-ruling.

Hrm, is that a thing? I was kinda under the impression it isn't actually a formation, just an auxiliary choice in an eldar warhost detachment, as there isn't a separate formation listing at the end of the book (with the other formations)?

Pretty sure that's how it works?

Eldercaveman wrote:

Benlisted wrote:
Just got back from a Highlander tourney this weekend - was really good, ended up 5th with Nids! Noone expected the 3 FMCs I brought, and skyfire was sparse. Took Regen on 4 MCs and felt it generally didn't really pull its weight - especially on Harpies/Crones. Dakkafex in a pod was an absolute hero, sniping Shadowsun off the relic last turn to net me a draw against a brutal Farsight bomb list. The pod itself was also incredible - the sheer weight of Str6 fire from it (took VCs), the fex and the flyrant were doing huge damage. I really would recommend the VCs, though their effectiveness drops if facing Marines (which I happened to not). I think I wanna try 2x Fexes in pods in normal games now! Other highlights include the Zoanthrope 1-shotting a 5 HP forgeworld LR and the Venomthrope doing about 9 wounds to a dronestar with Toxic Miasma. The latter made me wonder about the Hypertoxic node - if you can plant the Venoms in cover it's hard to displace them and you are guaranteed to get it off VS anything without assault nades.

Were you at the Warzone Wednesbury event?

Yup, only Nid player! Was a really good event were you there too?

 Iechine wrote:
Ugh lame.

Finally getting ready for Killadelphia next weekend. Made new magnetized arms for my Superbeast Tyrant, here is his Reaper of Obliterax:





What kind of changes are we expecting with an all-too-soon to be released Tyranid dex? Will Exocrines get D? Will Tyrants gain AP values? Will 2+ saves be a thing again?

Nice! Be sure to show your complete army when you get the chance.

And I expect a summary of how you do at the event.

With regards to the new Tyranid dex, I don't know for sure, but I hope they don't nerf the hell out of our flyrants. That's what they tend to do, nerf the hell out of all the best units in each release.

 IndigoJack wrote:
What is everyone's opinion on skyblight vs craftworld eldar? I feel like bringing DS gargoyles back on a 4+ is pretty nice, especially with lictors to guide them in. The harpies also seem like less of a tax now, since their vector strike can actually hurt bikes, and the TL stranglethorn cannon also has the ability to put a hurt on bikes.

I've been working on two lists, and would love some input on them:

Spoiler:

Skyblight
flyrant w/ 2x devs and e-grubs
2x harpies
crone
3x10 gargoyles

CAD
2x flyrants w/ 2x devs and e-grubs
3x lictors
2x3 rippers w/ DS
2x mawlocs

or

Skyblight
flyrant w/ 2x devs and e-grubs
2x harpies
crone
3x10 gargoyles

LAN
3x warriors w/ barbed strangler
2x biovores
exocrine

CAD
2x flyrants w/ 2x devs and e-grubs
mucolid
3x rippers with DS
Tyrannocyte

The first list uses lictors to guide mawlocs and gargs in and works more toward scoring. I think this list is best used in maelstrom type games. The second list has a stronger focus on shooting, with the artillery node providing out of LoS shooting from the biovores as well as the exocrine in the tyrannocyte as a sort of beta strike. Any thoughts would be appreciated as I'm still pretty new to nids.

Skyblight is still good and strong. As a matter of fact, the next time I run my bugs, I might do Leviathan + Skyblight.

Personally, I prefer List #1 mainly because I like to play a null-deployment list and mawlocs are better for my style-of-play than LAN. However, both lists are strong and you can't really go wrong with either. The question really is which one would you think is funner to play for you?

 IndigoJack wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
Went to an RTT yesterday. Newdar was in, and un-nerfed. Just under 1/2 of the armies had a wraith Knight. IG + Wraith Knight. Marines + Wraith Knight. Eldar + Wratih Knight.

That new formation that allows you to take 1 Wraith Knight and noting else made it a very popular inclusion. I got to final table with my Green Tide vs a Tau Gunline and lost to the Tau, but IG + Wraith Knight was 2nd.

That isn't actually a formation. It's an auxillary choice in the craftworld warhost formation, but can't be taken on it's own. The only formations in the eldar codex are the guardian battlehost, guardian stormhost, windrider host, seer council, aspect host, dire avenger shrine, crimson death, and the wraith host.

zerosignal wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
Went to an RTT yesterday. Newdar was in, and un-nerfed. Just under 1/2 of the armies had a wraith Knight. IG + Wraith Knight. Marines + Wraith Knight. Eldar + Wratih Knight.

That new formation that allows you to take 1 Wraith Knight and noting else made it a very popular inclusion. I got to final table with my Green Tide vs a Tau Gunline and lost to the Tau, but IG + Wraith Knight was 2nd.

I really don't like that mechanic. It's stupid to just add 1 wraithknight to any army or 1 unit of Flayed Ones or even 1 Lord of Skulls to any army. Sh*t, we are spiraling more and more towards Unbound with some of these "formations". Thank goodness TO's are not stupid enough to go by pure GW RAW and are doing a lot of house-ruling.

Hrm, is that a thing? I was kinda under the impression it isn't actually a formation, just an auxiliary choice in an eldar warhost detachment, as there isn't a separate formation listing at the end of the book (with the other formations)?

Pretty sure that's how it works?

That really depends on how the TO inteprets it. In the case of the TO (tournament organizer) that tag8833 mentioned, obviously, he intrepreted each Auxiliary unit in the Warhost detachment as a separate formation (even if it is a formation of 1 unit).

In the ITC format, they interpret it as formations and auxiliary dataslates. They have a restriction of 0-1 on any formations (thus, cannot take more than 1 seer council in the ITC format) but no restrictions on auxiliary dataslate units (i.e. you can up to 12 wraithlords if you want).

In short, I think you are both right, but it's best to check with the TO of the event as to how he's going to rule it for his tournament.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jifel wrote:

Spoiler:

tag8833 wrote:

 jifel wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
Has anyone ever purchased a comms relay without an associated fortification?

In the Stronghold book it says the following:
"The following list sum m arises the rules for battlefield debris that can be purchased as an upgrade to a fortification, or as fortifications in their own right."

It would certainly be more points efficient if I could buy a Comms Relay by itself. I don't see running a Tyranid Tourney list without one in the near future.

I don't have my book with me, but I am 99% sure that they can't be bought separately.

That is what I thought, but someone submitted a list for our tourney tomorrow that did so, and when challenged produced that quote. I've confirmed it is legit in the Stronghold assault book. I don't think it is ambiguous. I checked all the FAQ's. Battlefield debris can definitely be purchased alone, but it takes a fortification slot. Usually I've been happy to have the fortification as well, but with Newdar, and AD Mech upping the power of alpha strikes significantly, I'm moving more and more towards null deployment.

Ok, I got my book out and looked it up. The quote you listed above is indeed a quote from the book:

The following list summarises the rules for battlefield debris that can be purchased as an upgrade to a fortification, or as fortifications in their own right.

But, this is in regards to a list of the following: Ammunition Dump, Barricades and Walls, Comms Relay, Defense Lines, Gun Emplacements, Imperial Statuary, Tanglewire, Tank Traps, and Wreckage and Rubble. Now some of the list is available as separate fortifications, such as Defense Lines (Aegis) and the Imperial Statuary. I do not believe this means that all of the list can be taken as individuals, or as upgrades. The inverse of this is that an Imperial Statuary could also be taken as an upgrade to a Fortification, which I do not believe is true. The intended reading of the quoted line is, I believe, that some of the items listed below it are upgrades, and some are fortifications. If nothing else, there is no datasheet or points cost for taking a Comms Relay on its own. The only points assigned are when it is specifically listed as an upgrade, there is no section that states how many points it is as a stand alone unit or Fortification.

My conclusion, therefore, is that it still may not be taken as a stand alone fortification sadly.

Best bet? Check with the TO of your event beforehand.

Benlisted wrote:
Just got back from a Highlander tourney this weekend - was really good, ended up 5th with Nids! Noone expected the 3 FMCs I brought, and skyfire was sparse. Took Regen on 4 MCs and felt it generally didn't really pull its weight - especially on Harpies/Crones. Dakkafex in a pod was an absolute hero, sniping Shadowsun off the relic last turn to net me a draw against a brutal Farsight bomb list. The pod itself was also incredible - the sheer weight of Str6 fire from it (took VCs), the fex and the flyrant were doing huge damage. I really would recommend the VCs, though their effectiveness drops if facing Marines (which I happened to not). I think I wanna try 2x Fexes in pods in normal games now! Other highlights include the Zoanthrope 1-shotting a 5 HP forgeworld LR and the Venomthrope doing about 9 wounds to a dronestar with Toxic Miasma. The latter made me wonder about the Hypertoxic node - if you can plant the Venoms in cover it's hard to displace them and you are guaranteed to get it off VS anything without assault nades.

Seems like you had extremely good luck in some of your games.

While Highlander Tyranids can do well, don't expect it to be like that all the time, especially against the likes of Eldar, the centstar or some of the other Highlander armies out there.

tag8833 wrote:
Went to an RTT yesterday. Newdar was in, and un-nerfed. Just under 1/2 of the armies had a wraith Knight. IG + Wraith Knight. Marines + Wraith Knight. Eldar + Wratih Knight.

That new formation that allows you to take 1 Wraith Knight and noting else made it a very popular inclusion. I got to final table with my Green Tide vs a Tau Gunline and lost to the Tau, but IG + Wraith Knight was 2nd.

There is no formation that allows you to take 1 wraith knight. Just like there is no formation that allows you to tkae 1 deathmark unit. These are just unit datasheets that can be taken as auxiliary selections in a composite detachment but are otherwise just unit datasheets. A formation must be spelled out in a datasheet and there is no such datasheet in the eldar book (etc for Necrons and Daemonkin).

This is a common confusion with the composite detachments and the unit selection options they have -- many of them are not formations.

EDIT -- already addressed -- what I get for failing to submit last night

Benlisted wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

Benlisted wrote:
Just got back from a Highlander tourney this weekend - was really good, ended up 5th with Nids! Noone expected the 3 FMCs I brought, and skyfire was sparse. Took Regen on 4 MCs and felt it generally didn't really pull its weight - especially on Harpies/Crones. Dakkafex in a pod was an absolute hero, sniping Shadowsun off the relic last turn to net me a draw against a brutal Farsight bomb list. The pod itself was also incredible - the sheer weight of Str6 fire from it (took VCs), the fex and the flyrant were doing huge damage. I really would recommend the VCs, though their effectiveness drops if facing Marines (which I happened to not). I think I wanna try 2x Fexes in pods in normal games now! Other highlights include the Zoanthrope 1-shotting a 5 HP forgeworld LR and the Venomthrope doing about 9 wounds to a dronestar with Toxic Miasma. The latter made me wonder about the Hypertoxic node - if you can plant the Venoms in cover it's hard to displace them and you are guaranteed to get it off VS anything without assault nades.

Were you at the Warzone Wednesbury event?

Yup, only Nid player! Was a really good event were you there too?

I was supposed to be but had to drop out, I ran one in Leicester a couple of weeks before though.

Eldercaveman wrote:I was supposed to be but had to drop out, I ran one in Leicester a couple of weeks before though.

That's unfortunate - I think I heard about that event though, how did it go? What list were you planning to run at WS10?

jy2 wrote:Seems like you had extremely good luck in some of your games.

While Highlander Tyranids can do well, don't expect it to be like that all the time, especially against the likes of Eldar, the centstar or some of the other Highlander armies out there.

*shrug* we play a dice game, the luck goes both ways. The things I mentioned as highlights were just the most dramatic moments - the only statistically unlikely thing was the Zoan shot, and that made 0 difference to the game as it ended immediately after (and hadn't been on an objective. Similarly, in the last game the Warp Storm hit an 11 and nailed my Flyrant (and later my Fex)... I don't think my ingame luck was anything particularly special. I did get fairly lucky on the matchups - though Tau is my most troublesome one and that did come up.

I know how hard cents and Eldar can be, as I went with two guys taking each and had been playtesting with them for months. Still, the fliers seemed to be a good meta call.

Benlisted wrote:

jy2 wrote:Seems like you had extremely good luck in some of your games.

While Highlander Tyranids can do well, don't expect it to be like that all the time, especially against the likes of Eldar, the centstar or some of the other Highlander armies out there.

*shrug* we play a dice game, the luck goes both ways. The things I mentioned as highlights were just the most dramatic moments - the only statistically unlikely thing was the Zoan shot, and that made 0 difference to the game as it ended immediately after (and hadn't been on an objective. Similarly, in the last game the Warp Storm hit an 11 and nailed my Flyrant (and later my Fex)... I don't think my ingame luck was anything particularly special. I did get fairly lucky on the matchups - though Tau is my most troublesome one and that did come up.

I know how hard cents and Eldar can be, as I went with two guys taking each and had been playtesting with them for months. Still, the fliers seemed to be a good meta call.

I don't mean to take anything away from your wins, especially against Tau. All I am saying is that some armies will stand up great in Highlander formats - the Centstar, Tau, Eldar, Daemons (because of Summoning) and certain deathstar armies. Others....not as great. While FMC bugs gives us a better chance to deal with these types of armies, IMO, we are not a great Highlander army. We're not bad and we can potentially give certain armies some problems. However, we ourselves will have problems against a lot of armies as well. The sign of a good Highlander army is one that won't have a lot of bad matchups because they are highly flexible and adaptable.

 jy2 wrote:
That really depends on how the TO inteprets it. In the case of the TO (tournament organizer) that tag8833 mentioned, obviously, he intrepreted each Auxiliary unit in the Warhost detachment as a separate formation (even if it is a formation of 1 unit).

In the ITC format, they interpret it as formations and auxiliary dataslates. They have a restriction of 0-1 on any formations (thus, cannot take more than 1 seer council in the ITC format) but no restrictions on auxiliary dataslate units (i.e. you can up to 12 wraithlords if you want).

In short, I think you are both right, but it's best to check with the TO of the event as to how he's going to rule it for his tournament.

jy2 there really isn't any room for interpretation in this case. If you read the Forces of the Craftworlds section you will see that this is actually disallowed in 2 ways;
1) The auxiliary choices require you take take a core choice. The aux choices also have a single skull symbol to indicate them as such.
2) Formations have a triple skull symbol. It clearly says that formations in this codex are marked with said symbol. Without this symbol you have absolutely no permission to call the aux choice a formation (in fact you have been told by inference it is not a formation).

So not only is it clearly not a formation but it clearly states that you would need to take a core choice to take an auxiliary choice...which would be a craftworld warhost.

 jy2 wrote:
I don't mean to take anything away from your wins, especially against Tau. All I am saying is that some armies will stand up great in Highlander formats - the Centstar, Tau, Eldar, Daemons (because of Summoning) and certain deathstar armies. Others....not as great. While FMC bugs gives us a better chance to deal with these types of armies, IMO, we are not a great Highlander army. We're not bad and we can potentially give certain armies some problems. However, we ourselves will have problems against a lot of armies as well. The sign of a good Highlander army is one that won't have a lot of bad matchups because they are highly flexible and adaptable.

I do agree tbh - the Tau I played was Farsight Bomb, which is better than pure gunline for us (imo anyway). I also only scraped a draw! I had huge trouble building a list for the setup - we really do like to spam things and not being able to do so hurts the focus of the army. A main issue is also a source limit which was in place, meaning I could only take one of Leviathan/Stronghold/IA. The FMC list seemed like the best way to go in any case!

Benlisted wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:I was supposed to be but had to drop out, I ran one in Leicester a couple of weeks before though.

That's unfortunate - I think I heard about that event though, how did it go? What list were you planning to run at WS10?

Not sure to be fair, their rules changes with squadrons and source limit classifications kind of killed me and couple others keen for the event. I see you ran into Ryland's Daemons in Round 5!

My event went really well, Ryland finished second there with the Daemon list, he and 2 others bought identical lists, one of them won the whole thing. It's a brutal Highlander list.

Eldercaveman wrote:

Benlisted wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:I was supposed to be but had to drop out, I ran one in Leicester a couple of weeks before though.

That's unfortunate - I think I heard about that event though, how did it go? What list were you planning to run at WS10?

Not sure to be fair, their rules changes with squadrons and source limit classifications kind of killed me and couple others keen for the event. I see you ran into Ryland's Daemons in Round 5!

My event went really well, Ryland finished second there with the Daemon list, he and 2 others bought identical lists, one of them won the whole thing. It's a brutal Highlander list.

What was the list pray tell? Ive been needing some inspiration for daemon lists as I'm kind of in a rut.

 jy2 wrote:
That really depends on how the TO inteprets it. In the case of the TO (tournament organizer) that tag8833 mentioned, obviously, he intrepreted each Auxiliary unit in the Warhost detachment as a separate formation (even if it is a formation of 1 unit).

In the ITC format, they interpret it as formations and auxiliary dataslates. They have a restriction of 0-1 on any formations (thus, cannot take more than 1 seer council in the ITC format) but no restrictions on auxiliary dataslate units (i.e. you can up to 12 wraithlords if you want).

In short, I think you are both right, but it's best to check with the TO of the event as to how he's going to rule it for his tournament.

The TO in question was me. Or rather another person in the rotation was head TO for this event but he asked me what I thought, and I asked ATC since we were using their format. ATC replied with something like "We are still considering it". So I looked to ITC which I thought had ruled that all sub formations of the Decurion were also separate formations in their own right. I didn't see the new Eldar Codex until I played against it. I'll check it out, because if indeed it is as you guys suggestion that the auxiliary formations must be taken inside an Eldar Warhost, I will be very much relieved.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ansacs wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
That really depends on how the TO inteprets it. In the case of the TO (tournament organizer) that tag8833 mentioned, obviously, he intrepreted each Auxiliary unit in the Warhost detachment as a separate formation (even if it is a formation of 1 unit).

In the ITC format, they interpret it as formations and auxiliary dataslates. They have a restriction of 0-1 on any formations (thus, cannot take more than 1 seer council in the ITC format) but no restrictions on auxiliary dataslate units (i.e. you can up to 12 wraithlords if you want).

In short, I think you are both right, but it's best to check with the TO of the event as to how he's going to rule it for his tournament.

jy2 there really isn't any room for interpretation in this case. If you read the Forces of the Craftworlds section you will see that this is actually disallowed in 2 ways;
1) The auxiliary choices require you take take a core choice. The aux choices also have a single skull symbol to indicate them as such.
2) Formations have a triple skull symbol. It clearly says that formations in this codex are marked with said symbol. Without this symbol you have absolutely no permission to call the aux choice a formation (in fact you have been told by inference it is not a formation).

So not only is it clearly not a formation but it clearly states that you would need to take a core choice to take an auxiliary choice...which would be a craftworld warhost.

You are correct. Unfortunately Crimson Death, Windrider Host, and Seer Council are legit formations, but I will make sure not to approve single Wraith Knights in the future. The 2nd place player actually had an Eldar CAD to get his wraith knight, and there was a player that used the Wraith Host, but taking a single detachments of 1 Wraith Knight are not legitimate, and that makes it a tiny bit better, and slightly less likely to pop up in every army.

So who else has tried the Skytyrant Swarm from the Shield of Baal: Leviathan book?

I ran it for the first time yesterday and I have to say it was really refreshing - my Hive Tyrant kitted for melee actually got to charge and kill things IN MELEE!

I was playing an AM army that consisted of 50-70 guardsmen (i didn't count), 2x2 basilisks, and a wyvern. I was able to get first turn and due to night fight/shrouded (malanthropes are awesome) along with model placement, the wyvern only killed 5 gargoyles, and i lost 5 or 6 more to the rest of his shelling which is to say incredible. Failed a turn 2 charge due to rolling snake eyes (Never again! next run i'll def take AG on all the models in the SK swarm) but nonetheless turns 3-5 the skytyrant was ripping up stuff with his reaper of obliterax and pincer tail.

In test rolling (not real games yet) I've also found the reaper of obliterax and skytyrant formation able to take on an Eldar Wraithknight about 65% of the time. More reliably if the WK has been wounded first. The reaper causes instant death (so D3 wounds on a GC) on a 6, and has shred so chances of rolling 2 or more 6's are pretty good. The gargoyles' blinding venom wounds on a 6+ and isn't as great as reaper, since it's ap-, but it's still able to hurt the guy. I'll be trying it out in real play sometime soon i think, but we only have one eldar player in our group and he doesn't yet have a WK in his collection.

Back to yesterday's game, between the skytyrant and my 2 standard flyrants, and biovores and zoanthropes, i was able to take his army out chunks at a time. He conceded on the top of turn 5 with only a fleeing guardsman, depleted CCS, 1 basilisk and the wyvern remaining (with my tyrants bearing down on both the artillery pieces).

I'll definitely be running skytyrant again. I loved it.

Eldar Tactica Addendum

In the chapter regarding Competitive Eldar Builds in my Tyranids vs Eldar Tactica (p. 319), I mentioned about Eldar leadership shenanigans. I did make a mistake there. The LD-Bomb list isn't with Dark Eldar allies. It's actually with Harlequin allies. Here is a sample list, contributed by felixcat:

Eldar with Harlequin Allies: You will also see the new Eldar teaming up with the new Harlequins as a competitive build. This type of list usually revolves around 2 builds - the Eldar/Harlie LD-Bomb or the Eldar/Harlie Harlistar deathstar build. In either case, both types of lists will take advantage of stackable, Leadership-reducing abilities as part of their offensive repertoire.

CAD:
Farseer Skyrunner

3 Scatterbikes
3 Scatterbikes
3 Scatterbikes
3 Windrider Jetbikes (no Scatter Lasers)

Hemlock Wraithfighter
Hemlock Wraithfighter

Harlequin Masque Detachment :
3 Death Jesters
Shadowseer - Lvl Psyker, Mask of Secrets

3x5 Troupes - 3 Caress, 2 Embrace, Haywire Grenades, Neuro Disruptor, Starweaver

2 Starweavers
Voidreaver - Prismatic Cannon


Now you make one of your Troupe Masters and in maelstrom just try for the +2/-2 random game length. This alone can be game breaking. You have Windriders for ObSec. What are we doing here? Well, if you really want to attack LD the Death Jesters ‘Death Is Not Enough’ is darn capable. A lot of units will be taking that -2 LD morale test as Jesters will get some casualties. And the Jesters fit into the Starweavers ( capacity 6). When the Hemlocks come we stack their -2 LD 12” bubble with the Jesters and units will be running off the edges of the table. Finally we have a Lvl 2 Mask of Secrets psyker. This guy will do buffs and also reduce LD. Remember you get to pick the direction the effected units flee if they take Jester casualties. The Masque detachment does have ‘Rising Crescendo’ - run and charge. But really we will charge only after we weaken squads. Those that do not run off the table we can finish off. Did I mention this list has a slew of S6 shots - 80+ a turn. So even Flyrants can be hurt. -felixcat

 tetrisphreak wrote:
So who else has tried the Skytyrant Swarm from the Shield of Baal: Leviathan book?

I ran it for the first time yesterday and I have to say it was really refreshing - my Hive Tyrant kitted for melee actually got to charge and kill things IN MELEE!

I was playing an AM army that consisted of 50-70 guardsmen (i didn't count), 2x2 basilisks, and a wyvern. I was able to get first turn and due to night fight/shrouded (malanthropes are awesome) along with model placement, the wyvern only killed 5 gargoyles, and i lost 5 or 6 more to the rest of his shelling which is to say incredible. Failed a turn 2 charge due to rolling snake eyes (Never again! next run i'll def take AG on all the models in the SK swarm) but nonetheless turns 3-5 the skytyrant was ripping up stuff with his reaper of obliterax and pincer tail.

In test rolling (not real games yet) I've also found the reaper of obliterax and skytyrant formation able to take on an Eldar Wraithknight about 65% of the time. More reliably if the WK has been wounded first. The reaper causes instant death (so D3 wounds on a GC) on a 6, and has shred so chances of rolling 2 or more 6's are pretty good. The gargoyles' blinding venom wounds on a 6+ and isn't as great as reaper, since it's ap-, but it's still able to hurt the guy. I'll be trying it out in real play sometime soon i think, but we only have one eldar player in our group and he doesn't yet have a WK in his collection.

Back to yesterday's game, between the skytyrant and my 2 standard flyrants, and biovores and zoanthropes, i was able to take his army out chunks at a time. He conceded on the top of turn 5 with only a fleeing guardsman, depleted CCS, 1 basilisk and the wyvern remaining (with my tyrants bearing down on both the artillery pieces).

I'll definitely be running skytyrant again. I loved it.

Yeah for many years I ran a "Winged Assassin" and a Dakka'rant. It fills me with joy to actually use my Assassin again. I can't call it the best thing Ever, but I like it quite a bit.

 ansacs wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
That really depends on how the TO inteprets it. In the case of the TO (tournament organizer) that tag8833 mentioned, obviously, he intrepreted each Auxiliary unit in the Warhost detachment as a separate formation (even if it is a formation of 1 unit).

In the ITC format, they interpret it as formations and auxiliary dataslates. They have a restriction of 0-1 on any formations (thus, cannot take more than 1 seer council in the ITC format) but no restrictions on auxiliary dataslate units (i.e. you can up to 12 wraithlords if you want).

In short, I think you are both right, but it's best to check with the TO of the event as to how he's going to rule it for his tournament.

jy2 there really isn't any room for interpretation in this case. If you read the Forces of the Craftworlds section you will see that this is actually disallowed in 2 ways;
1) The auxiliary choices require you take take a core choice. The aux choices also have a single skull symbol to indicate them as such.
2) Formations have a triple skull symbol. It clearly says that formations in this codex are marked with said symbol. Without this symbol you have absolutely no permission to call the aux choice a formation (in fact you have been told by inference it is not a formation).

So not only is it clearly not a formation but it clearly states that you would need to take a core choice to take an auxiliary choice...which would be a craftworld warhost.

Ok. Agreed. That is how they do it in the ITC format anyways.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
So who else has tried the Skytyrant Swarm from the Shield of Baal: Leviathan book?

I ran it for the first time yesterday and I have to say it was really refreshing - my Hive Tyrant kitted for melee actually got to charge and kill things IN MELEE!

I was playing an AM army that consisted of 50-70 guardsmen (i didn't count), 2x2 basilisks, and a wyvern. I was able to get first turn and due to night fight/shrouded (malanthropes are awesome) along with model placement, the wyvern only killed 5 gargoyles, and i lost 5 or 6 more to the rest of his shelling which is to say incredible. Failed a turn 2 charge due to rolling snake eyes (Never again! next run i'll def take AG on all the models in the SK swarm) but nonetheless turns 3-5 the skytyrant was ripping up stuff with his reaper of obliterax and pincer tail.

In test rolling (not real games yet) I've also found the reaper of obliterax and skytyrant formation able to take on an Eldar Wraithknight about 65% of the time. More reliably if the WK has been wounded first. The reaper causes instant death (so D3 wounds on a GC) on a 6, and has shred so chances of rolling 2 or more 6's are pretty good. The gargoyles' blinding venom wounds on a 6+ and isn't as great as reaper, since it's ap-, but it's still able to hurt the guy. I'll be trying it out in real play sometime soon i think, but we only have one eldar player in our group and he doesn't yet have a WK in his collection.

Back to yesterday's game, between the skytyrant and my 2 standard flyrants, and biovores and zoanthropes, i was able to take his army out chunks at a time. He conceded on the top of turn 5 with only a fleeing guardsman, depleted CCS, 1 basilisk and the wyvern remaining (with my tyrants bearing down on both the artillery pieces).

I'll definitely be running skytyrant again. I loved it.

The Skytyrant formation is fun. It used to have 2 bad matchups - Tau and Eldar. But now with Eldar losing its cover-ignoring long-term capability, there is mainly just 1 headache matchup - Tau.

BTW, take egrubs on your Flyrant. Just in case you get charged by a walker or Imperial Knight.

All this talk of Skytyrant has got me thinking. Obviously it'd be nice to give the whole swarm Fleet with AG, but at a 30 Garg swarm that's costing you 75 points, which is pretty damn hefty since it already costs 450pts or so depending how you run the flyrant. Would it be at all viable to stick AG on only 20/30 of the gargoyles, since they're technically two separate broods so you can upgrade them differently? If your opponent shoots 10 off then he gives the remainder fleet. Then again, that only actually saves you 20 points, so maybe it isn't particularly worth it.

Benlisted wrote:
All this talk of Skytyrant has got me thinking. Obviously it'd be nice to give the whole swarm Fleet with AG, but at a 30 Garg swarm that's costing you 75 points, which is pretty damn hefty since it already costs 450pts or so depending how you run the flyrant. Would it be at all viable to stick AG on only 20/30 of the gargoyles, since they're technically two separate broods so you can upgrade them differently? If your opponent shoots 10 off then he gives the remainder fleet. Then again, that only actually saves you 20 points, so maybe it isn't particularly worth it.

Forget it. It isn't worth it. I'd rather use that 75-pts to buy another 12 gargoyles instead.