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2015/08/08 03:24:33
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Frozocrone wrote: Shadowsun should be pretty easy to deal with, particulary if he's Deep Striking the Bomb. Since the FAQ non-infiltrators can't join infiltrators, regardless of who has the special rule.
You can put Shadowsun with the bomb in reserves. You just can't deploy her on the table with the bomb, but she can still join them if all are in reserves.
gigasnail wrote: ITC ruling, pods are back to firing RAW and so may be useful for more than an overpriced taxi.
Also no more same faction allied detachments, but, can take duplicate detachments so CAD/CAD, double skybilght, double leviathan, etc are in.
I'm telling you guys now. I DON'T recommend running more than 5 flyrants unless playing pure Eternal War missions. Any type of missions with a Maelstrom component in it and your army will be to imbalanced.
So with the Changes to ITC its time to take a look at new ways to run Nids competitively. The meta is going to shift, and lists with a chance to win are going to be tailored to the missions in an even more extreme way.
The 1st obvious idea is double Skyblight. That gives you 6 fast scoring OS units of Gargoyles that come back when killed, the ability to rule the skies, and a good selection of sacrificial objective jumpers. The only problem is situations where you have to Null Deploy. If we could ally in it would be no problem, but without CtA it probably means either Deathleaper or a sporefield. I like the sporefield more because it is cheaper, and you can upgrade all of the harpies with HVC, and then have another 50 points to play with.
The second thought is what I'm calling "Pineapple Express" (Because I use converted pinapples as Tcytes). The idea here is lots of TCyting Dakkafexes, Upgrade the Tycytes to VC's. It is a metabuster list, not really a TAC. There are certain matchups that can just punk you. It does well against Marine Drop pod spam, and pretty good against Scat Bike spam, just can't deal with Wraith Knights. To make this list work, you must have a Comms Relay. Its not really a winning list, but seems like it would be fun. The overcosted nature of the Tyrannocyte especially when compared to free drop pods is just too much to fully overcome.
Do any of you guys have thoughts on the best way to deal with Drop Pod spam in the current meta. I keep playing against battle company, and I keep killing all of the marines, but the OS drop pods tend to win the game if they are played right. I just can't kill enough of them. A recent game of ITC's version of the Relic involved 6 drop pods all being dropped in range of the Relic surrounding it on all sides. So I had to basically kill 2 before I could even get to the Relic. He won Maelstrom by a million, and I ended up contesting the relic, but couldn't score it.
2015/08/08 15:11:39
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Im thinking of going to a tourney laster in the year and came up with this Stealer rush list.
Could you guys help to maximise it? I'd love to take 4 Mawlocs but only have two Im afraid. I dont have any extra HTs either. It leaves me with about 300 points to spend.
I've maxed my Genestealer models too.
Do you think it has a chance, its mainly for fun but the Irish scene is quite competitive. However I'd like to not get tabled every game thanks!
Frozocrone wrote: Shadowsun should be pretty easy to deal with, particulary if he's Deep Striking the Bomb. Since the FAQ non-infiltrators can't join infiltrators, regardless of who has the special rule.
You can put Shadowsun with the bomb in reserves. You just can't deploy her on the table with the bomb, but she can still join them if all are in reserves.
gigasnail wrote: ITC ruling, pods are back to firing RAW and so may be useful for more than an overpriced taxi.
Also no more same faction allied detachments, but, can take duplicate detachments so CAD/CAD, double skybilght, double leviathan, etc are in.
I'm telling you guys now. I DON'T recommend running more than 5 flyrants unless playing pure Eternal War missions. Any type of missions with a Maelstrom component in it and your army will be to imbalanced.
/
Huh. never realised. I'll have to keep that in mind.
YMDC = nightmare
2015/08/08 15:48:05
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
tag8833 wrote: So with the Changes to ITC its time to take a look at new ways to run Nids competitively. The meta is going to shift, and lists with a chance to win are going to be tailored to the missions in an even more extreme way.
The 1st obvious idea is double Skyblight. That gives you 6 fast scoring OS units of Gargoyles that come back when killed, the ability to rule the skies, and a good selection of sacrificial objective jumpers. The only problem is situations where you have to Null Deploy. If we could ally in it would be no problem, but without CtA it probably means either Deathleaper or a sporefield. I like the sporefield more because it is cheaper, and you can upgrade all of the harpies with HVC, and then have another 50 points to play with.
The second thought is what I'm calling "Pineapple Express" (Because I use converted pinapples as Tcytes). The idea here is lots of TCyting Dakkafexes, Upgrade the Tycytes to VC's. It is a metabuster list, not really a TAC. There are certain matchups that can just punk you. It does well against Marine Drop pod spam, and pretty good against Scat Bike spam, just can't deal with Wraith Knights. To make this list work, you must have a Comms Relay. Its not really a winning list, but seems like it would be fun. The overcosted nature of the Tyrannocyte especially when compared to free drop pods is just too much to fully overcome.
Do any of you guys have thoughts on the best way to deal with Drop Pod spam in the current meta. I keep playing against battle company, and I keep killing all of the marines, but the OS drop pods tend to win the game if they are played right. I just can't kill enough of them. A recent game of ITC's version of the Relic involved 6 drop pods all being dropped in range of the Relic surrounding it on all sides. So I had to basically kill 2 before I could even get to the Relic. He won Maelstrom by a million, and I ended up contesting the relic, but couldn't score it.
I DON'T recommend dual-skyblight either. It's just too many points, with the min config (assuming dakka flyrants w/egrubs) to be 1690-pts!!! You've only got 160-pts for the rest of your army in a typical 1850 list!!!
So what are the problems?
1. Only 2 flyrants.
2. Harpies and hive crones, while decent, are too ineffective to be the focus of your offense. In a double-skyblight list, they take out 850-pts for units that can't really do a whole lot of damage.
3. While 6 ObSec units are good, you will never be able to out-ObSec Marines. Double-skyblight just does not have enough offense to deal with Battle Company or Ravenwing builds.
4. What kind of units can you get for 160-pts??? The Sporefield formation is only 90-pts and you can't get any more than that. 160-pts of Tyranid allies is just junk, just the Deathleaper and a bunch of mucolids/spore mines for null deployment.
As for dealing with drop pod spam, I've re-designed my tournament list to be more of an offensive, null-deployment list as opposed to a more traditional MSU null-deployment list. Got rid of my lictors and even the malanthrope in return for more offense and MC's. This was the list I took to the BAO and another tournament:
I've had no problems with Battle Company or drop pod-spam so far. With the mawlocs, I am able to focus my flyrants more on the pods and let the mawlocs deal with the marines.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ratius wrote: Im thinking of going to a tourney laster in the year and came up with this Stealer rush list.
Could you guys help to maximise it? I'd love to take 4 Mawlocs but only have two Im afraid. I dont have any extra HTs either. It leaves me with about 300 points to spend.
I've maxed my Genestealer models too.
Do you think it has a chance, its mainly for fun but the Irish scene is quite competitive. However I'd like to not get tabled every game thanks!
If you want to run more stealers (and if you have more stealer models), I recommend you run one of the stealer formations as well, either the Broodlord Hunting Pack (3 genestealer broods + 1 Broodlord) or the Manufactorum Genestealers (5 stealer broods). What's funner than running 8 units of genestealers? Running up to 13 of those units.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/08 15:52:51
tag8833 wrote: The 1st obvious idea is double Skyblight. That gives you 6 fast scoring OS units of Gargoyles that come back when killed, the ability to rule the skies, and a good selection of sacrificial objective jumpers. The only problem is situations where you have to Null Deploy. If we could ally in it would be no problem, but without CtA it probably means either Deathleaper or a sporefield. I like the sporefield more because it is cheaper, and you can upgrade all of the harpies with HVC, and then have another 50 points to play with.
As much as I enjoy playing the Skyblight, I don't think doubling up on it would make for an especially strong list (outside of a 2500+ point game at least). It's main strength is survivability (especially with larger Gargoyle Broods), but it really lacks offensive punch against tough ground targets (high toughness + good save models and AV12+).
Personally, I'd be tempted to try running it in conjunction with a 'stealer shock sort of list like Ratius listed. It has plenty of other targets for anti-infantry guns to worry about and both Harpies and Gargoyles are tailor made to help with assaults (Harpies pin targets and have their sonic screech for pseudo-grenades in a critical assault, Gargoyles act as living assault grenades by virtue of their tarpitting things and are excellent overwatch sponges).
The second thought is what I'm calling "Pineapple Express" (Because I use converted pinapples as Tcytes). The idea here is lots of TCyting Dakkafexes, Upgrade the Tycytes to VC's. It is a metabuster list, not really a TAC. There are certain matchups that can just punk you. It does well against Marine Drop pod spam, and pretty good against Scat Bike spam, just can't deal with Wraith Knights. To make this list work, you must have a Comms Relay. Its not really a winning list, but seems like it would be fun. The overcosted nature of the Tyrannocyte especially when compared to free drop pods is just too much to fully overcome.
Honestly, if I were building a list spamming Tyrannocytes I'd probably opt for more gribblies over monstrous creatures. The 'cyte itself is more expensive than the marine pod as already stated, but one can make up for that with cheaper bodies to toss inside it. A brood of 10x Devilgants + Tyrannocyte is only 155 points. In theory one could run six such units for max MSU OS saturation (with 180 S4 shots and 30 S5 shots) and still have 920 points to spend on other stuff/some extra ablative bodies.
EDIT: Also on the subject of the new Dark Angels, keep an eye out for anyone running multiple Ravenwing command squads with Apothecaries. The Apothecary itself doesn't have the unique tag in its unit type, but under the options it says onlyone Black Knight model in the army may be upgraded to an Apothecary.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/08/08 18:03:15
2015/08/09 04:13:33
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
2 wins and a draw going into day 22 at Woking Weird Boyz, beat farsight Bomb at kill points which was a super tough game, came down to a venomthrope taking the last wound off a riptide that charged him!
The. I played Flying Circus Daemons game 2 which was another insanely close game which I won, despite playing for a turn 5 ending and it going on to turn 7!
Game to was against the Eldar player who can 2nd place at this summers Cally, that was a stupidly close game I out deployed him, letting him think he would be able to get MoA off on me, but then just lining up my spores so he couldn't go anywhere ( vanguard deployment). That game ended up a draw in the scouring mission.
First game today is against my fellow team mate, and another elder player with 5 units of jetbikes, 30 warp spiders and a wraith knight, going to be a very tough game. I'm currently sat in 5th place. Two wins today and I should podium, but that's a big ask!
jy2 wrote: As for dealing with drop pod spam, I've re-designed my tournament list to be more of an offensive, null-deployment list as opposed to a more traditional MSU null-deployment list. Got rid of my lictors and even the malanthrope in return for more offense and MC's. This was the list I took to the BAO and another tournament:
I've had no problems with Battle Company or drop pod-spam so far. With the mawlocs, I am able to focus my flyrants more on the pods and let the mawlocs deal with the marines.
While that is a killy list, it would struggle to score points in ITC missions. You are basically surrendering Maelstrom to your opponent and planning to win EW and a majority of the tertiaries. I just don't see that as very possible to do consistently with the modern ITC missions.
Here is an example of a game that I saw recently at an ITC Tourney (My opponent conceded early, so I watched a fair amount of it). The mission was the Relic. It was a decent, but not optimized Tyranid list playing against a Marine battle company with 2 imperial knights. The Marine player dropped 6 drop pods on the relic, so that the Tyranid player had to kill at least 2 to even contest the relic. The other 4 or 5 or however many drop pods went on the maelstrom objectives. The Tyranid player killed all of the marines, but lost maelstrom and at the end of 5 he was contesting the relic, but it went on to 6, and the Drop pods surrounding the relic killed the last OS ripper, so without killing another 2-3 drop pods he had no way to even contest it.
My list was more suited to competing on Maelstrom, and depending on my luck there, I might have won that game, but I doubt it. It is just too hard to kill 10-12 drop pods, and if the space marine player doesn't cooperate with you by dropping them away from the EW objectives, you are going to have a tough time in several of the ITC missions.
So far I'm 2-1 vs Battle Company. But I haven't yet played a Drop Pod spam version which seems like it is the scariest version to my Nids (My Orks Just beat a 12 drop pod list).
2015/08/09 15:43:52
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Eldercaveman wrote: 2 wins and a draw going into day 22 at Woking Weird Boyz, beat farsight Bomb at kill points which was a super tough game, came down to a venomthrope taking the last wound off a riptide that charged him!
The. I played Flying Circus Daemons game 2 which was another insanely close game which I won, despite playing for a turn 5 ending and it going on to turn 7!
Game to was against the Eldar player who can 2nd place at this summers Cally, that was a stupidly close game I out deployed him, letting him think he would be able to get MoA off on me, but then just lining up my spores so he couldn't go anywhere ( vanguard deployment). That game ended up a draw in the scouring mission.
First game today is against my fellow team mate, and another elder player with 5 units of jetbikes, 30 warp spiders and a wraith knight, going to be a very tough game. I'm currently sat in 5th place. Two wins today and I should podium, but that's a big ask!
jy2 wrote: As for dealing with drop pod spam, I've re-designed my tournament list to be more of an offensive, null-deployment list as opposed to a more traditional MSU null-deployment list. Got rid of my lictors and even the malanthrope in return for more offense and MC's. This was the list I took to the BAO and another tournament:
I've had no problems with Battle Company or drop pod-spam so far. With the mawlocs, I am able to focus my flyrants more on the pods and let the mawlocs deal with the marines.
While that is a killy list, it would struggle to score points in ITC missions. You are basically surrendering Maelstrom to your opponent and planning to win EW and a majority of the tertiaries. I just don't see that as very possible to do consistently with the modern ITC missions.
Here is an example of a game that I saw recently at an ITC Tourney (My opponent conceded early, so I watched a fair amount of it). The mission was the Relic. It was a decent, but not optimized Tyranid list playing against a Marine battle company with 2 imperial knights. The Marine player dropped 6 drop pods on the relic, so that the Tyranid player had to kill at least 2 to even contest the relic. The other 4 or 5 or however many drop pods went on the maelstrom objectives. The Tyranid player killed all of the marines, but lost maelstrom and at the end of 5 he was contesting the relic, but it went on to 6, and the Drop pods surrounding the relic killed the last OS ripper, so without killing another 2-3 drop pods he had no way to even contest it.
My list was more suited to competing on Maelstrom, and depending on my luck there, I might have won that game, but I doubt it. It is just too hard to kill 10-12 drop pods, and if the space marine player doesn't cooperate with you by dropping them away from the EW objectives, you are going to have a tough time in several of the ITC missions.
So far I'm 2-1 vs Battle Company. But I haven't yet played a Drop Pod spam version which seems like it is the scariest version to my Nids (My Orks Just beat a 12 drop pod list).
Its weakness is definitely the Maelstrom objectives in the ITC format. However, it isn't as bad as I thought. Usually, at least 1/2 of the Maelstrom objectives, I can usually achieve quite easily (2 kill-a-units and have a unit within 12" of the enemy deployment). For the objective Maelstrom objectives, I can sometimes achieve them with the mawlocs.
I've had 8 battles with my list in tournament play so far. In those games, I've only lost in the Maelstrom twice (both times to the 2 opponents who beat me at the BAO). I've had 1 draw against Daemonkin (though had we continued playing, I would have won Maelstrom as well). In the 5 games that I've won, I've beaten Battle Company (actually beat them on straight Maelstrom points!). I've beaten a Skyhammer list with 6 pods and 14 grav-cannons coming down in 4 units. I've beaten dual-guard blobs with a 3rd unit of Fearless conscripts, 5 Imperial Knights and Eldar with 25 scatter-bikes and 9-hornets. All of these lists (with the exception of the IK army) have a very strong ground presence. Except for the knights, they are all armies that should have gave me problems in the Maelstrom objectives and yet my army was able to beat them in it.
With regards to your 6-drop pod opponent's list in the Relic, I probably would have demolished his list. I don't know how many flyrants your "friend" was running, but if you cluster up 6 pods surrounding the Relic, my 5 haywire templates would have had a field day! I would have been drooling at such a foolish move against my army. Then again, I can definitely see how a Tyranid player running 3 or fewer flyrants may have problems against that list.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/09 15:45:22
Eldercaveman wrote: 2 wins and a draw going into day 22 at Woking Weird Boyz, beat farsight Bomb at kill points which was a super tough game, came down to a venomthrope taking the last wound off a riptide that charged him!
The. I played Flying Circus Daemons game 2 which was another insanely close game which I won, despite playing for a turn 5 ending and it going on to turn 7!
Game to was against the Eldar player who can 2nd place at this summers Cally, that was a stupidly close game I out deployed him, letting him think he would be able to get MoA off on me, but then just lining up my spores so he couldn't go anywhere ( vanguard deployment). That game ended up a draw in the scouring mission.
First game today is against my fellow team mate, and another elder player with 5 units of jetbikes, 30 warp spiders and a wraith knight, going to be a very tough game. I'm currently sat in 5th place. Two wins today and I should podium, but that's a big ask!
Those are some tough matchups.
Good luck on Day 2! We're rooting for you.
So due to some insane scoring system where a loss scores you the same amount of Tournament points as a Draw, provided you get to Turn 5 in your game I didn't play my team mates Eldar in my 4th game, I went up against a very tough Guard list with Libby Enclave, including Tiggy. It was a very tough game, with the Enclave putting Invis on to a blob of Gaurdsmean and Leviatating them all over the board, and it was looking like a bad match for me, until my Mawloc came on turn 3 and pulled out a heroic deep strike and sniped Tiggy out of the unit, meaning no more Invis, after which I tabled all bar 15 conscripts at the end of turn 6 when we ran out of time.
Going in to the final game I was one of only 4 people unbeaten, 3 of us had 3 wins and a draw and one player had 4 wins (he went on to win the whole thing) and some how because of the scoring system I was on table 5 against the Eldar player I drew against game 3, despite him having 1 loss, 2 wins, and a draw up to that point.
What a game! I messed up at the start, forgetting his Culexus was infiltrating and got really lazy with my positioning, because of this he dropped a Hive Tyrant turn one for First Blood, in my first turn I then dropped the Culexus because he was such a big pain last game. Other than that I did very little damage as he only deployed his Vauls Batteries and a unit of Dark Reapers in the far corner. Turn two all his reserves come on, and through some crazy dice he fails to kill anything, he gets one Hive Tyrant who was just infront of the Vauls down to one wound, I fail my grounding check and his roll to wound !!!!!! This was the big swing in the game, from there the grounded Tyrant jumped into the Ruins and wiped out the Vaul's over two turns, it then took him until turn 5 to drop another Hive Tyrant, at the end of Turn 6 I tabled him!!
When all was said and done, there were 3 players undeafted the overall winner who won 5 games, and me and one other player with 4-0-1. I had higher VP's than him so naturally I came
Question: Seeing as how penta-flyrants is having trouble in maelstrom heavy tournaments, do you think dropping 2 tyrants and adjusting points to start running skyblight would be a good call? Even with the harpy tax, having access to speedy, deepstrikable, cheap, objective secured units that can respawn seems like it would be ok
2015/08/10 04:05:51
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
omerakk wrote: Question: Seeing as how penta-flyrants is having trouble in maelstrom heavy tournaments, do you think dropping 2 tyrants and adjusting points to start running skyblight would be a good call? Even with the harpy tax, having access to speedy, deepstrikable, cheap, objective secured units that can respawn seems like it would be ok
A short answer is no. I do think a 3 or 4 Flyrant list is significantly better (In ITC or Maelstrom) than a 5 flyrant list, but the problem with Skyblight beyond the Harpy Tax is that you end up depending on the 3 units of gargoyles too much for ground presence and scoring. A Savy opponent will take them out, and force you to start landing fliers.
Also, if single skyblight was a good way to go it would have been figured out by now. My playtesting with Skyblight has been less impressive than lost of other Tyranid builds I've run. I haven't playtested double skyblight, which I think might address some of the flaws with my single skyblight list, but it might be too much of a hit to damage output, I'll give it a shot eventually.
2015/08/10 13:39:31
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Having the Chance to Roll to bring Gargoyles back, and having Deep Strike, they can fall again on Objectives... again, that is more luck and not reliable. but having also a CAD with some reapers DS is a lot of Objsec DS
2015/08/10 14:47:27
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
The biggest problem with Skyblight is that any clever opponent will just take them down to 1 or 2 and then just leave them until late in the game. Unless it's the scouring and the you just bleed points.
Eldercaveman wrote: So due to some insane scoring system where a loss scores you the same amount of Tournament points as a Draw, provided you get to Turn 5 in your game I didn't play my team mates Eldar in my 4th game, I went up against a very tough Guard list with Libby Enclave, including Tiggy. It was a very tough game, with the Enclave putting Invis on to a blob of Gaurdsmean and Leviatating them all over the board, and it was looking like a bad match for me, until my Mawloc came on turn 3 and pulled out a heroic deep strike and sniped Tiggy out of the unit, meaning no more Invis, after which I tabled all bar 15 conscripts at the end of turn 6 when we ran out of time.
Going in to the final game I was one of only 4 people unbeaten, 3 of us had 3 wins and a draw and one player had 4 wins (he went on to win the whole thing) and some how because of the scoring system I was on table 5 against the Eldar player I drew against game 3, despite him having 1 loss, 2 wins, and a draw up to that point.
What a game! I messed up at the start, forgetting his Culexus was infiltrating and got really lazy with my positioning, because of this he dropped a Hive Tyrant turn one for First Blood, in my first turn I then dropped the Culexus because he was such a big pain last game. Other than that I did very little damage as he only deployed his Vauls Batteries and a unit of Dark Reapers in the far corner. Turn two all his reserves come on, and through some crazy dice he fails to kill anything, he gets one Hive Tyrant who was just infront of the Vauls down to one wound, I fail my grounding check and his roll to wound !!!!!! This was the big swing in the game, from there the grounded Tyrant jumped into the Ruins and wiped out the Vaul's over two turns, it then took him until turn 5 to drop another Hive Tyrant, at the end of Turn 6 I tabled him!!
When all was said and done, there were 3 players undeafted the overall winner who won 5 games, and me and one other player with 4-0-1. I had higher VP's than him so naturally I came
Spoiler:
Fourth
What? Lol! How'd they mess up that scoring?
Anyways congrats! Very well done and against some intense competition. I would have liked to see the game against your Eldar mate, but I have a feeling that you would have heavily dominated that matchup.
Which of your matchups did you felt was the toughest?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
omerakk wrote: Question: Seeing as how penta-flyrants is having trouble in maelstrom heavy tournaments, do you think dropping 2 tyrants and adjusting points to start running skyblight would be a good call? Even with the harpy tax, having access to speedy, deepstrikable, cheap, objective secured units that can respawn seems like it would be ok
Skyblight is still one of the more competitive Tyranid TAC builds. It's a lot different from a Pentyrant list but it isn't necessarily worse. To me, it's more of a playstyle preference whether you want to run Pentyrants or Skyblight. Both have their strengths and both have their weaknesses. Overall, both are still very competitive Tyranid builds.
One of the Tyranid players in the ITC circuit, John Dyer, is currently ranked 2nd top Tyranid player (behind iNcontrol, who is currently the top Tyranid player as well as the top Overall player in the ITC). He runs Skyblight with 3 flyrants (so 4 flyrants total) and is doing very well. He even beat me in the rankings at the BAO (I was 3rd Tyranid player, he was 2nd).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/10 15:48:50
My biggest fear with skyblight is the 4+ to place the squad back into on going reserves as well as what eldercaveman and other alluded too.
Words of wisdom by Prophet40k
That game put my faith in Khorne to the test. My table-neighbor looked at the match up and said "Here you're going to need these more than I will" and handed me a bag of Jello shots. They must have pleased Khorne because I walked out 11-2.
Now looking at another list with MORE tyrants and MORE mawlocks, I said to myself. "Oh well looks like it's time for another beer. It'll take the sting out of this. LOL"
2015/08/10 18:43:57
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Eldercaveman wrote: So due to some insane scoring system where a loss scores you the same amount of Tournament points as a Draw, provided you get to Turn 5 in your game I didn't play my team mates Eldar in my 4th game, I went up against a very tough Guard list with Libby Enclave, including Tiggy. It was a very tough game, with the Enclave putting Invis on to a blob of Gaurdsmean and Leviatating them all over the board, and it was looking like a bad match for me, until my Mawloc came on turn 3 and pulled out a heroic deep strike and sniped Tiggy out of the unit, meaning no more Invis, after which I tabled all bar 15 conscripts at the end of turn 6 when we ran out of time.
Going in to the final game I was one of only 4 people unbeaten, 3 of us had 3 wins and a draw and one player had 4 wins (he went on to win the whole thing) and some how because of the scoring system I was on table 5 against the Eldar player I drew against game 3, despite him having 1 loss, 2 wins, and a draw up to that point.
What a game! I messed up at the start, forgetting his Culexus was infiltrating and got really lazy with my positioning, because of this he dropped a Hive Tyrant turn one for First Blood, in my first turn I then dropped the Culexus because he was such a big pain last game. Other than that I did very little damage as he only deployed his Vauls Batteries and a unit of Dark Reapers in the far corner. Turn two all his reserves come on, and through some crazy dice he fails to kill anything, he gets one Hive Tyrant who was just infront of the Vauls down to one wound, I fail my grounding check and his roll to wound !!!!!! This was the big swing in the game, from there the grounded Tyrant jumped into the Ruins and wiped out the Vaul's over two turns, it then took him until turn 5 to drop another Hive Tyrant, at the end of Turn 6 I tabled him!!
When all was said and done, there were 3 players undeafted the overall winner who won 5 games, and me and one other player with 4-0-1. I had higher VP's than him so naturally I came
Spoiler:
Fourth
What? Lol! How'd they mess up that scoring?
Anyways congrats! Very well done and against some intense competition. I would have liked to see the game against your Eldar mate, but I have a feeling that you would have heavily dominated that matchup.
Which of your matchups did you felt was the toughest?
So the scoring system worked like this,
If you won and got to turn 5 or more (or the game ended naturally) you got 5 TP's, if you won and didn't get to turn 5 or later you got 4, if you drew you got 1, if you lost and got to turn 5 or the game ended naturally you got 1 and if you lost but the game didn't get to turn 5 you got 0.
As for toughest match up, I couldn't see a way of beating the guard list as it was 3 objectives and they were close enough for his blob to surround them all (my fault I didn't click on to the gimmick of his list until he deployed) but the Mawloc saved the day on that one. The first time I played against the Eldar list I tabled in my last game was pretty rough and I was gifted a draw because he moved out of Linebreaker range (all though in hindsight, it would have made no difference about standings, as I'd have just been one VP down, and on the same TP's. Maybe I'd have been less bitter about not coming 2nd). Oh and the Eldar guy I played twice came 2nd at Cally, last month.
Against my friends list, I was really terrified of that match up, I'm not sure what I could have done. I'd have taken out his Jetbikes, and hoped the Mawloc and some Psychic screams could do damage against his Warp Spiders, and just ignored the Wraithknight.
So I was wondering with the new ITC what gun upgrade would be better. The Barbed or the Venom on the T-Cthes.
I think having two to 3 pods will give a unique board control unit.
Warrior based cron units will hate Venom pods. Which is a good thing.
We are not really use to having units that shoot 36 in. a turn. This is going to make us think about placement more. I think we can have some sniping options.
I think people will be surprised at the amount of damage these units will cause.
I had a death-spitter unit land in the rear of a hell turkey and take of a hull point or two killing it.
Ten to 15 templates for 50 to 75 points seams to be a good Idea. I think you start unbalancing the list if you go above that.
What are peoples thoughts?
2015/08/11 13:14:51
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Has anyone tried multiple Dimas in pods in the ITC format?
Words of wisdom by Prophet40k
That game put my faith in Khorne to the test. My table-neighbor looked at the match up and said "Here you're going to need these more than I will" and handed me a bag of Jello shots. They must have pleased Khorne because I walked out 11-2.
Now looking at another list with MORE tyrants and MORE mawlocks, I said to myself. "Oh well looks like it's time for another beer. It'll take the sting out of this. LOL"
2015/08/11 23:07:21
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
If you won and got to turn 5 or more (or the game ended naturally) you got 5 TP's, if you won and didn't get to turn 5 or later you got 4, if you drew you got 1, if you lost and got to turn 5 or the game ended naturally you got 1 and if you lost but the game didn't get to turn 5 you got 0.
As for toughest match up, I couldn't see a way of beating the guard list as it was 3 objectives and they were close enough for his blob to surround them all (my fault I didn't click on to the gimmick of his list until he deployed) but the Mawloc saved the day on that one. The first time I played against the Eldar list I tabled in my last game was pretty rough and I was gifted a draw because he moved out of Linebreaker range (all though in hindsight, it would have made no difference about standings, as I'd have just been one VP down, and on the same TP's. Maybe I'd have been less bitter about not coming 2nd). Oh and the Eldar guy I played twice came 2nd at Cally, last month.
Against my friends list, I was really terrified of that match up, I'm not sure what I could have done. I'd have taken out his Jetbikes, and hoped the Mawloc and some Psychic screams could do damage against his Warp Spiders, and just ignored the Wraithknight.
That's some funky scoring mechanics there. While I understand the intent, I'm not so sure I like it. Go up against a horde player or a slower player and that really screws you, through no fault of your own. And then if you are a horde player and you're not super-fast, well, good luck. Overall, one of the biggest drawbacks with this mechanic is that it will serve to stymie variety. People who care about winning will drop the armies that are slower to play in favor of armies that play faster. You're going to see a facet of the game taken out, at least for a good population of the tournament goers. In turn, more people will be playing the same, or very similar, style of armies.
I played against a triple-blob Guard list in one of my tournaments. He run 2x50 blobs with Yarrick and Celestine and a 50x Conscript unit with Priest. He had a very strong ground presence and I? Flyrants, mawlocs and mucolids. I found the key to the matchup was 1) egrubs did wonders in my game, 2) mawlocs did a lot of work and 3) push up into his blobs to prevent them from advancing. You want to keep them contained somewhat in their deployment zone so that they aren't able to threaten your objectives. Only their objectives were threatened (by my mawlocs) and they'd be too busy trying to defend. Basically, it was my philosophy of Positional Dominance which was how I was able to beat a superior ground force in the Maelstrom objectives. (BTW, in our game, he had 5 lascannons in each blob and got 2 Skyfire Nexus objectives for both of his blobs to camp on, along with the Ignore Cover orders. Lol!).
I think your army has the tools to deal with your Eldar friends. Be glad that the tourney does not have a Maelstrom component to it so that you will never have to put your flyrants at risk until Turn 5.
I've been using Hierodules a bit recently with some moderate success, they are extremely squishy for the points though.
So I have been looking at alternatives and wondered if anyone had tried pairing up a Flyrants list with a malanthrope in either a primus redoubt or aquila strong point?
They both have strength D large blasts and can house a malanthrope to give Flyrants a good 2+ cover save turn 1. And they both are similar in points to the Hierodules.
Does this idea have any legs or is this going to lead to the same problem of too many eggs in one basket to be considered competitive?
2015/08/13 11:22:57
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
shadowfinder wrote: So I was wondering with the new ITC what gun upgrade would be better. The Barbed or the Venom on the T-Cthes.
I think having two to 3 pods will give a unique board control unit.
Warrior based cron units will hate Venom pods. Which is a good thing.
We are not really use to having units that shoot 36 in. a turn. This is going to make us think about placement more. I think we can have some sniping options.
I think people will be surprised at the amount of damage these units will cause.
I had a death-spitter unit land in the rear of a hell turkey and take of a hull point or two killing it.
Ten to 15 templates for 50 to 75 points seams to be a good Idea. I think you start unbalancing the list if you go above that.
What are peoples thoughts?
That really depends on your meta. If you play against mech a lot, might want to consider the VC. If you play against infantry a lot, then the BS will probably be the way to go.
Personally, I'd rather keep the default weapons. Make it cheap and then spend the points elsewhere in the army.
Terror from the Deep wrote: I've been using Hierodules a bit recently with some moderate success, they are extremely squishy for the points though.
So I have been looking at alternatives and wondered if anyone had tried pairing up a Flyrants list with a malanthrope in either a primus redoubt or aquila strong point?
They both have strength D large blasts and can house a malanthrope to give Flyrants a good 2+ cover save turn 1. And they both are similar in points to the Hierodules.
Does this idea have any legs or is this going to lead to the same problem of too many eggs in one basket to be considered competitive?
Personally, I'd rather invest my points into a unit that can move and threaten the opponent. However, I really don't have any experience with the strong point or redoubt. My recommendation is to proxy it in practice games to see if you like it or not (unless you've already got the actual fortification).
Had another game with my Overlord Swarm (3 Hierodules)
They are fun to use, but I'm pointedly aware they're not going to do much to a 'proper' knight or wraithknight list.
I actually had a random thought in terms of bulking the army out - I don't want to use 'normal' units (because if you're doing a superheavy army, use a pure superheavies), but I was thinking that spore mines are essentially just one-use ordnance, so I don't mind using them.
The sporefield looks like a nice formation - flexible to any value from 90 to 270 points, so it's good for filling up points to a given limit, and mucolids and spore mines look like they might be useful - the spore mines can keep tarpits away and make objectives unattractive to attack, the mucolids can in theory even threaten big stuff or flyers (albeit more likely just draw fire for a turn!) and if placed right are ideally big enough to offer the bio-titans some cover if they need it.
would the benefits of the sporefield justify the formation or is it easier just to pack out with mucolid spores?
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
2015/08/14 12:32:47
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Tonight I'm goign to try the Sporefield on a friendly game, but I'm quite in love with the formation, infiltrating spores with a 50% chance to respawn them (if killed or exploding), and DS.
Infiltrating Mucolids on objectives if posible, will keep them away, better if in cover, since they got shroud, on a normal cover of 5+, they have a save of 3+, and 3W.
Infiltrating spores mines, they are so small that you could find lot of places without your enemy having LoS to deploy them 12" away, will reduce their movement freedom.
And even waste firepower on those 6 units, and since destroying them does not award victory points, they also don't concede First Blood.
2015/08/14 14:08:14
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Oh, I knowspores are good - it was more the fact that even hidden 12" away they'll take 2+ turns to get there.
the mucolids on objectives as area denial, I get - they just seem massively better than regular spores for the same points.
that said, I've been thinking, and even regular mines should be good for blocking movement - as three small bases, arguably better than a mucolid. I found a video where a canny nid player had pinned a knight in with a fence of them - no space to move without coming within 1", and couldn't fire ordnance at such close range, 30 points of spores cost a~ 400 point superheavy its movement and assault phases...
the only real problem is the ****ing cost of mucolid models!
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
2015/08/14 14:58:54
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
locarno24 wrote: The only real problem is the ****ing cost of mucolid models!
I'm proxying them for tonight, and maybe getting a friend that is studying special effects to get some done
In Argentina it is not expensive... IT'S IMPOSSIBLE to get originals models (Speacially new ones), but, as they have the right measures, there wont be any trouble.
Plus, you are not hoping for the spore mines to close in and detonate, you are just driving fire from your importante units to them... and denying area of movement, if he dares to walk close or past them, then he saves you the movement, and if he stay away, then he will be lacking objectives and losing points. Spores hides in ruins, or cover, so he wont venture to have the cover for himself.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/14 15:02:49
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
!!!!!! This was the big swing in the game, from there the grounded Tyrant jumped into the Ruins and wiped out the Vaul's over two turns, it then took him until turn 5 to drop another Hive Tyrant, at the end of Turn 6 I tabled him!!
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