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 Melissia wrote:
What? No, and hell no. Just because people whine incessantly about one codex means nothing, they whine about every codex. People whined that the new Eldar codex sucked, before they realied it was good. It's never as bad as the initial whining makes it out to be.

Haven't you been proven wrong about the Eldar codex whining? Like..Several times by now?

Several posts have counters to this, despite you repeatedly claiming this with no real info..

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
What? No, and hell no. Just because people whine incessantly about one codex means nothing, they whine about every codex. People whined that the new Eldar codex sucked, before they realied it was good. It's never as bad as the initial whining makes it out to be.

Haven't you been proven wrong about the Eldar codex whining? Like..Several times by now?

Several posts have counters to this, despite you repeatedly claiming this with no real info..

+1 to this guy

It's already a crappy monolist codex so they can't make it any worse. Also I just played a nid list they're horrifying now. Orks need this treatment

I get the Tyranid criticisms. To the best of my knowledge, it's the only 6E codex that's actually removed units (Doom of Malan'tai) from 5e, yes?

And other rumors say that the loss of Doom is fallout from the Chapterhouse lawsuit as well, yeah?

 Orock wrote:
If the new tyranid codex with recycled pictures and swifly rushed out the door poorly planned untested rules are any indication of your current priorities, we will stick with the current one. Answering to the almighty shareholder with a poor product that will not help you sell plastic is not a strategy for success.

I smell a troll.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

 Orock wrote:
If the new tyranid codex with recycled pictures and swifly rushed out the door poorly planned untested rules are any indication of your current priorities, we will stick with the current one. Answering to the almighty shareholder with a poor product that will not help you sell plastic is not a strategy for success.

I smell a troll.

The troll stench is strong with this one.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
It's already a crappy monolist codex so they can't make it any worse. Also I just played a nid list they're horrifying now. Orks need this treatment

horrifyingly good or bad? With the way you wrote this it's hard to find the correct context.

i think he means the nids did well.. That's how i read it

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
What? No, and hell no. Just because people whine incessantly about one codex means nothing, they whine about every codex. People whined that the new Eldar codex sucked, before they realied it was good. It's never as bad as the initial whining makes it out to be.

Haven't you been proven wrong about the Eldar codex whining? Like..Several times by now?

No. Also this was the first time I said that. No one has "proven me wrong", so much as they've just proven themselves to have bad memory. Bad memory you have shown by not realizing that this was the first time I've actually said that.

But please, make up gak and revise your own memory to support your arguments. It's funny.

Or you could, perhaps, realize that my point is simple: There's whining no matter what GW does. There has not been one incident where there was nary a complaint from the fans.

 Melissia wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
What? No, and hell no. Just because people whine incessantly about one codex means nothing, they whine about every codex. People whined that the new Eldar codex sucked, before they realied it was good. It's never as bad as the initial whining makes it out to be.

Haven't you been proven wrong about the Eldar codex whining? Like..Several times by now?

No. Also this was the first time I said that. No one has "proven me wrong", so much as they've just proven themselves to have bad memory. Bad memory you have shown by not realizing that this was the first time I've actually said that.

But please, make up gak and revise your own memory to support your arguments. It's funny.

Or you could, perhaps, realize that my point is simple: There's whining no matter what GW does. There has not been one incident where there was nary a complaint from the fans.

I also dont remember complaints about the eldar codex as a whole. just the usual banshee stuff (which happens now still). I remember people where raving about it in a good way. A big reason i actually picked up the book and ended up with the army of them.

I havent seen a reaction like this before to a codex but yet again i havent been on a forum (this is my first forum ever) before a few months ago. To me it seems the vast majority of people dislike it with very few optimistic players. But we will see what happens.

 Code wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
What? No, and hell no. Just because people whine incessantly about one codex means nothing, they whine about every codex. People whined that the new Eldar codex sucked, before they realied it was good. It's never as bad as the initial whining makes it out to be.

Where does this new "people whined about the Eldar codex" meme come from?
I was there. Never happened.

there was whining mostly about stuff that didn't get better , but people wanted it to get better like screamer ladies and everyone whines when something good is droped from the codex like runes .

 Swastakowey wrote:
I havent seen a reaction like this before to a codex but yet again i havent been on a forum (this is my first forum ever) before a few months ago

It's so common that I just glaze over it and ignore it.

People whine about it, then the competent players get to work on making the codex competitive (or sometimes even figure out a way to break it completely), and the ones who whine either continue whining or they adopt the tactics of the players who made it work.

It's like a ritual. And everyone participates! I bring popcorn. Every single codex release is like this to some extent or other.

Django_Unchained wrote:

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
It's already a crappy monolist codex so they can't make it any worse. Also I just played a nid list they're horrifying now. Orks need this treatment

horrifyingly good or bad? With the way you wrote this it's hard to find the correct context.

I was trampled under the tide of 6 MCs and all my Heavy Supports were killed by Mawlocs. It's a good dex.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:

Django_Unchained wrote:

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
It's already a crappy monolist codex so they can't make it any worse. Also I just played a nid list they're horrifying now. Orks need this treatment

horrifyingly good or bad? With the way you wrote this it's hard to find the correct context.

I was trampled under the tide of 6 MCs and all my Heavy Supports were killed by Mawlocs. It's a good dex.

Yep. That's a lot of T6 5W units on the field.

 easysauce wrote:
LOL... so much fail in people who think the new nids are a nerf...

You're kidding right.

Rippers went up in cost. Up.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:

Django_Unchained wrote:

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
It's already a crappy monolist codex so they can't make it any worse. Also I just played a nid list they're horrifying now. Orks need this treatment

horrifyingly good or bad? With the way you wrote this it's hard to find the correct context.

I was trampled under the tide of 6 MCs and all my Heavy Supports were killed by Mawlocs. It's a good dex.

I think my Daemons would love to see a bunch of squishy 3+ nid monsters!

 Melissia wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
I havent seen a reaction like this before to a codex but yet again i havent been on a forum (this is my first forum ever) before a few months ago

It's so common that I just glaze over it and ignore it.

People whine about it, then the competent players get to work on making the codex competitive (or sometimes even figure out a way to break it completely), and the ones who whine either continue whining or they adopt the tactics of the players who made it work.

It's like a ritual. And everyone participates! I bring popcorn. Every single codex release is like this to some extent or other.

Hmmm, i shall wait and see what happens to my guard with the new dex and see how people react. But i still dont remember it being that bad whenever i had a glance. I shall wait and see then.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Hmmm, i shall wait and see what happens to my guard with the new dex and see how people react. But i still dont remember it being that bad whenever i had a glance. I shall wait and see then.

Guard has changed so much since I first started using them. Mind you, I'm one of the people that still refuses to use vendettaspam, so I'm weird.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
What? No, and hell no. Just because people whine incessantly about one codex means nothing, they whine about every codex. People whined that the new Eldar codex sucked, before they realied it was good. It's never as bad as the initial whining makes it out to be.

Haven't you been proven wrong about the Eldar codex whining? Like..Several times by now?

Several posts have counters to this, despite you repeatedly claiming this with no real info..

While obviously not on the level of the Tyranid release there were some posts from those who were less than thrilled with the book before playing it.

All from this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/463557.page

My initial reaction is that the Council as an individual unit isn't viable at all anymore. The most important thing to note is that Farseers no longer unlock Warlocks, you get a unit of up to 10 Warlocks per detachment that do not take up an HQ slot, but since they now work like Wolf Guard again you will always be stripping out Warlocks to add to Jetbikes and other units and you can't get any more than 10. Essentially you would be crippling your army just to run a single block of Warlocks, which reduces the effectiveness of their powers.

wow those warlock sure do suck now.

So Warlocks kinda suck.

and we still can't stop a Heldrake from eating everything.

2+ ignore glance? It's a +2 to turn the pen to a glance, you don't' ignore it lol. To be honest, the shooting from lascannons weren't really an issue before the dex update. It's mass S6-8 fire that could down a serpent in shooting. the new field rules do little to help that because you're still going to get glanced down if you get swarm fired. The new holofields help a lot with that, but the loss of easy fortune counters that by a LONG shot. Ultimately, as i said, shooting isn't your worry it's loosing your 115+ transport to a basic dude in Melee.

35pt rhino getting blow up as it "does it's job as a transport" = cool, understandable
115pt+ serpent getting blown up as it "does it's job as a transport" = not so much

So Warlocks are utterly useless? How the **** can they muck that up :(

I'm mostly in disbelief that people are complaining about how bad the Wave Serpents are when they're a better MBT than my Hammerheads. The transport capacity is just icing.

To which this is posted...

Er what? A twin linked Bright Lance/Scatter Laser/Starcannon is nowhere near as good as a Railgun or Ion Cannon, honestly the SMS you get as a secondary weapon is on par with the main gun of a Serpent. On top of that you get AV13 front and Markerlight support to ruin people.

Heldrake spam are going to eat this army alive. Which saddens me.

 Melissia wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Hmmm, i shall wait and see what happens to my guard with the new dex and see how people react. But i still dont remember it being that bad whenever i had a glance. I shall wait and see then.

Guard has changed so much since I first started using them. Mind you, I'm one of the people that still refuses to use vendettaspam, so I'm weird.

I am much the same no net style armies for me. My praetorians have to fight in 2 rank firing lines under all circumstances (except bayonet charges). The savages (i have a variety of merc aliens) are allowed t fight in a mob though. so its not all bad.

But back to the topic, you are probably right. i have yet to see the standard fury of codex changes frequently.

Wolves need a new codex, Long Fangs and Rune Priests need a Nerf bat, with Blood Claws and Wolf Priests needing a Buff as well as some sort of Anti-Air.

I think the Nid release reminds me of the CSM complaints.
Old time Chaos fans were complaining that the majority of the book was terrible, and probably still has the longest list of just unusable units.
Then people tried saying that it was good because mono-nurgle and heldrakes were awesome.
Then it went back and forth between "GW butchered the codex and reduced it to Fast Attack spammng and everything else is Nurgle" and "You can spam bikes, spawn, heldrakes, and mark of nurgle so it's good"

Anyone who thinks the writing in this book is anything but rushed and poor should just read the pyrovore entry. Specifically where it says EVERY unit takes wounds in a certain situation. Not every unit within x inches, or even every enemy unit, EVERY unit. on the board. Because there wording is garbage. Go ahead and read it, then come back and post.

 Orock wrote:
Anyone who thinks the writing in this book is anything but rushed and poor should just read the pyrovore entry. Specifically where it says EVERY unit takes wounds in a certain situation. Not every unit within x inches, or even every enemy unit, EVERY unit. on the board. Because there wording is garbage. Go ahead and read it, then come back and post.

Just like the Death Ray's wording then? It's the normal GW fair of being unable to word those sort of rules properly.
I'm not sure anyone on this thread said the codex wasn't rushed or poorly worded.

The majority of 6th edition codex releases have been perfectly fine, and there's been some truly huge improvements (Tau, anyone?). Tyranids are really an anomaly and, really, I don't think the codex is that bad. It's as good as, if not better, than DA and CSM and certainly has more viable builds and usable units than the latter.

The book is rushed, yes, and we've heard rumours (probably true) that the codex needed to be taken back to square one, but was pushed out by the higher-ups. Chances are that this won't happen again. As for poorly written rules, it's GW, you should really be expecting it and wait for the community/FAQ to address them. Or simply come to a compromise with your regular gaming opponents.

I guess it does depend where you play, but, if you're that concerned and you really don't like the new codex, whenever it hits, you can always just use the old one.

 Melissia wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
What? No, and hell no. Just because people whine incessantly about one codex means nothing, they whine about every codex. People whined that the new Eldar codex sucked, before they realied it was good. It's never as bad as the initial whining makes it out to be.

Haven't you been proven wrong about the Eldar codex whining? Like..Several times by now?

No. Also this was the first time I said that. No one has "proven me wrong", so much as they've just proven themselves to have bad memory. Bad memory you have shown by not realizing that this was the first time I've actually said that.

But please, make up gak and revise your own memory to support your arguments. It's funny.

Or you could, perhaps, realize that my point is simple: There's whining no matter what GW does. There has not been one incident where there was nary a complaint from the fans.

Sorry, this arguments been so common lately that my eyes just glaze over when it comes to seeing it and all the names spin together.

I feel the same way about the endless, ceaseless whining.

I'm still not convinced that the whining ever really stopped, from back in second edition when I picked up my first models. It's just one long blur of whine.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
What? No, and hell no. Just because people whine incessantly about one codex means nothing, they whine about every codex. People whined that the new Eldar codex sucked, before they realied it was good. It's never as bad as the initial whining makes it out to be.

Haven't you been proven wrong about the Eldar codex whining? Like..Several times by now?

Several posts have counters to this, despite you repeatedly claiming this with no real info..

you mean several posters have silly, totally incorrect counters to what melissa said?


she is absolutely correct... whiners are just whining about the nid dex because they do not know the builds yet... to put it politely...

the new nid dex is more powerful, lots of cheaper units, gets 2 for one FnP for Psy powers, has a doom power as well...
whole armies of 3+ cover from venoms, cheap as hell fleeting carnifexes, cheap as hell flyrants...

4pts for an i4 t3 model with a gun.... thats fearless 90% of the time... yes please...


the only people who think the new dex are garbage are people who want the 5th ed codexes net lists to still be top dog instead of making new 6th ed codex lists to synergise with the new rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
I feel the same way about the endless, ceaseless whining.

I'm still not convinced that the whining ever really stopped, from back in second edition when I picked up my first models. It's just one long blur of whine.

yup this x1000...

everyone i play with, doesnt whine all the time, when they do it is about the legitimate "grey area no distinct RAW answer" type scenarios, but we roll off or house rule and move on.

the MOST whining comes from people who play the least I find, or have been out of the hobby for a while and just like to lurk.

whole armies of 3+ cover from venoms, cheap as hell fleeting carnifexes, cheap as hell flyrants...

I played an army just like this yesterday.

Venoms ID' by Blastmasters to knock out the cover save, the flyrants got grounded and killed by turn two, the carnifex's then proceeded to derp around for a few more turns while I mopped up the like..120+ tormagaunts who were also having issues with synapse once I shot them all out.

IMO, Orks have aged remarkably well, but we're still a 4th edition codex playing in 6th. If we get a codex as good as the 4th edition one was upon its release, (Fun fluff, fluffy rules, most units are good without many being overpowered, lasts for years...) I'll be very happy.
Please let it be that good...