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Yeah. Trygons gained nothing in the new 'Dex, and lost all their re-rolls. Why would people be re-tooling their Mawlocs into Trygons?

Endless bugs? Endless bugs! Endless bugs.

I, for one, endorse endless bugs. I question, however, why wasn't such a staple of Tyranid-ness in the codex?

Because Nids can't have nice things.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah. Trygons gained nothing in the new 'Dex, and lost all their re-rolls. Why would people be re-tooling their Mawlocs into Trygons?

trygon tunnel.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah. Trygons gained nothing in the new 'Dex, and lost all their re-rolls. Why would people be re-tooling their Mawlocs into Trygons?

Because this dataslate just gave Nid players back one of our old broken combo's that we haven't been able to use sence 4th ed Apoc.

Endless Swarm: On a 4+ a unit of termigaunts or Hormigaunts can come on the table from Ongoing Reserves.

Trygon tunnel: Infantry Units coming onto the table from reserves can deploy from the trygon tunnel.

That means that our returning units can get right where we want them. And if they get wiped out they can pop right out again. It is only one unit per tunnel per turn, but it takes the useless tunnels and makes them very nasty again.

well it makes them maybe nasty on a 4+ if you just got your devilgaunts shot off the board. it also means you have to take a trygon which to me is still kinda iffy.

 Lord Scythican wrote:

Most of them are old, but this one isn't:

That one has been on GW website as a formation to buy pretty much since release. But could still be an indication, though i hold no expectations.


Dakkagaunts, outflank, shoot, die, tunnel, repeat. Sounds fun.

Tyrgon tunnels: the perfect way to bring on endless swarms, right in the enemy's backfield.

It also looks as if the flying swarm will free up fast attack spots... maybe we'll get to field our shrikes, as well as two crones and the gargs.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:


Tyrgon tunnels: the perfect way to bring on endless swarms, right in the enemy's backfield.

It also looks as if the flying swarm will free up fast attack spots... maybe we'll get to field our shrikes, as well as two crones and the gargs.

Combine it with Gargoyles bio-bombs, gargoyles and blind tests everywhere XD.

 Gloomfang wrote:

Because this dataslate just gave Nid players back one of our old broken combo's that we haven't been able to use sence 4th ed Apoc.

Endless Swarm: On a 4+ a unit of termigaunts or Hormigaunts can come on the table from Ongoing Reserves.

Where are you getting rule that from? I don't see it on any of the previews.

 xttz wrote:

 Gloomfang wrote:

Because this dataslate just gave Nid players back one of our old broken combo's that we haven't been able to use sence 4th ed Apoc.

Endless Swarm: On a 4+ a unit of termigaunts or Hormigaunts can come on the table from Ongoing Reserves.

Where are you getting rule that from? I don't see it on any of the previews.

The image was leaked somewhere.

It is a formation of 2 broods of termagants, 3 broods of hormagants and 1 brood of warriors that go to ongoing reserves on a 4+ when the unit is destroyed. It has potential if combined with the Tunnels IMO.

 Tyran wrote:

The image was leaked somewhere.

Found it


The main issue I see with it is that you're still gonna need to buy 2 Troops units on top of this for your primary detachment. But it could work really well alongside 2-3 Trygon Primes and maybe a Lictor-based formation. The trick will be to keep to smaller gaunt units around 15-20 strong, so they can die fast enough to come back again, and can all fit near the tunnel.

Well, if you really wante dto troll someone, you could take two Ripper squads for your troops selections, then take 2 Endless Swarm formations.

718 pts for 12 troop selections (that respawn on a 4+) and some Rippers to, like, go do Ripper things. 720 to replace them with a pair of Termagant squads.

1040 if you want a THIRD endless swarm. "Yeah, 'gaunts stink, but 9 units of 'em ain't bad. We will bury you in our corpses!" *WAVE*


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heck, for 1500, you could have:

Tyranid Prime (stock)
2 units of Termagants (stock)
4 Endless Swarms

And still have 15 points to upgrade your Prime.

Not the best army, and you certainly wouldn't take it to a tourney, but 12 units of Hormagaunts, 8 units of Termagants, and 4 units of Warriors that all come back on a 4+ means that you can claim all of the objectives. Heck, you can borrow some from neighboring tables even.

 Gloomfang wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah. Trygons gained nothing in the new 'Dex, and lost all their re-rolls. Why would people be re-tooling their Mawlocs into Trygons?

Because this dataslate just gave Nid players back one of our old broken combo's that we haven't been able to use sence 4th ed Apoc.

Endless Swarm: On a 4+ a unit of termigaunts or Hormigaunts can come on the table from Ongoing Reserves.

Trygon tunnel: Infantry Units coming onto the table from reserves can deploy from the trygon tunnel.

That means that our returning units can get right where we want them. And if they get wiped out they can pop right out again. It is only one unit per tunnel per turn, but it takes the useless tunnels and makes them very nasty again.

Don't you mean 4e nid CODEX? That was 100pts, gave you and endless swarm brood of 10guants, that Fall Back TOWARDS Synapse!!! Man I miss that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though not as strong as the old Rule. It does able to hormies and warriors now so I guess that helps. With a fast swarm you will need the Trygon, otherwise IB could be a PITA.

barnowl wrote:

 Gloomfang wrote:

n.

Don't you mean 4e nid CODEX? That was 100pts, gave you and endless swarm brood of 10guants, that Fall Back TOWARDS Synapse!!! Man I miss that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though not as strong as the old Rule. It does able to hormies and warriors now so I guess that helps. With a fast swarm you will need the Trygon, otherwise IB could be a PITA.

Techinically it was +3pts per model for endless swarm and the termigaunts couldn't cost more than 8pts. The only way you could get WoN on hormigaunts was to take the Endless Swarm from Apoc and that was a minimum broodsize of 20 AND you paid 200pts extra for that formation.

You can't WoN the warriors. Rules says gaunts/gants
Actually IB can be good in this case. I used to run WoN and ES a long time ago. Folks stopped shooting when you got to 3-4 gants in a brood. Now you can take them out of synapse and be sure they will die (Feed) or flee off the table. Before tehy would run back to synapse and not die, now they just head towards the table edge. Much better that way.

So they made the Nid players pay extra for something that should have been in their codex to begin with to make it viable.

Good times. Can't wait to see how they apply that to future codexes.

So whats the deal with that leaked image? It contradicts what is posted as a preview on the iTunes page.

The preview shows that the formation needs:
3 Horms
3 Terms
1 Warrior

While the one posted above only says 2 Termagant units are required.

Question, if you take the Endless Swarm formation, and one of your Termagant broods is 30 strong, would that unlock a Tervigon as a troops choice as in your primary detatchment?

On a related note, could one of the broods purchased as a part of the formation Outflank using Hive Commander on a Hive Tyrant?

 Tarnag wrote:
Question, if you take the Endless Swarm formation, and one of your Termagant broods is 30 strong, would that unlock a Tervigon as a troops choice as in your primary detatchment?

On a related note, could one of the broods purchased as a part of the formation Outflank using Hive Commander on a Hive Tyrant?

I think it does actually unlock a Tervigon, as long as it's 30 man strong. The Tervigon rule says, paraphrased "for each 30 strong Termagant unit included in your army." Pretty sure that includes formations.

rollawaythestone wrote:

 Tarnag wrote:
Question, if you take the Endless Swarm formation, and one of your Termagant broods is 30 strong, would that unlock a Tervigon as a troops choice as in your primary detatchment?

On a related note, could one of the broods purchased as a part of the formation Outflank using Hive Commander on a Hive Tyrant?

I think it does actually unlock a Tervigon, as long as it's 30 man strong. The Tervigon rule says, paraphrased "for each 30 strong Termagant unit included in your army." Pretty sure that includes formations.

True, the wording definitely would suggest that. If so, that's fantastic! If I could get to my codex right now I'd look up on the wording to the Hive Commander as well, because if it's similar then you could get a pretty big unit of Devilgaunts Outflanking that unlock a troop Tervigon for your main detachment.

 Tarnag wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:

 Tarnag wrote:
Question, if you take the Endless Swarm formation, and one of your Termagant broods is 30 strong, would that unlock a Tervigon as a troops choice as in your primary detatchment?

On a related note, could one of the broods purchased as a part of the formation Outflank using Hive Commander on a Hive Tyrant?

I think it does actually unlock a Tervigon, as long as it's 30 man strong. The Tervigon rule says, paraphrased "for each 30 strong Termagant unit included in your army." Pretty sure that includes formations.

True, the wording definitely would suggest that. If so, that's fantastic! If I could get to my codex right now I'd look up on the wording to the Hive Commander as well, because if it's similar then you could get a pretty big unit of Devilgaunts Outflanking that unlock a troop Tervigon for your main detachment.

Yes 30 gaunts in the formation unlock a tervigon. However Hive commander specifically says in the same detachment. Almost like they knew that they had dataslates with formations that had troops and didn't want you to do that.

 Gloomfang wrote:

 Tarnag wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:

 Tarnag wrote:
Question, if you take the Endless Swarm formation, and one of your Termagant broods is 30 strong, would that unlock a Tervigon as a troops choice as in your primary detatchment?

On a related note, could one of the broods purchased as a part of the formation Outflank using Hive Commander on a Hive Tyrant?

I think it does actually unlock a Tervigon, as long as it's 30 man strong. The Tervigon rule says, paraphrased "for each 30 strong Termagant unit included in your army." Pretty sure that includes formations.

True, the wording definitely would suggest that. If so, that's fantastic! If I could get to my codex right now I'd look up on the wording to the Hive Commander as well, because if it's similar then you could get a pretty big unit of Devilgaunts Outflanking that unlock a troop Tervigon for your main detachment.

Yes 30 gaunts in the formation unlock a tervigon. However Hive commander specifically says in the same detachment. Almost like they knew that they had dataslates with formations that had troops and didn't want you to do that.

Ah okay, interesting. Two 30 strong Gaunt blobs in the Endless Swarm would unlock you two Tervigons for your required troops then. Though they would take awhile to respawn.

So, not to be a negative-nancy, and maybe it is because i mostly play against a semi-WAAC Wolves player, but i can see him wiping a unit down to 5 or less and ignoring them. With superior ranged weapons and 3+ being his worst armor save, he can easily afford to. I know for sure that it will help put pressure on some people, but against my main opponent, it will be useless.

Agreed, opponents just would ignore their last few gaunts until they had to deal with them, if you were using the tunnel trick.

 RiTides wrote:
Agreed, opponents just would ignore their last few gaunts until they had to deal with them, if you were using the tunnel trick.

Which is a weird situation in which we can use the terrible synapse rules to our advantage.

Pull said unit out of synapse and watch it break, eat itself, etc... and replace it with a fresh one.

OR... lets say our opponent legitimately does ignore the unit. Well it will still tie something up, eat overwatch, etc... Ignoring the models doesn't render them useless as it still only takes one gant to force an opponent to lose out on a shooting phase, etc...

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Agreed, opponents just would ignore their last few gaunts until they had to deal with them, if you were using the tunnel trick.

Which is a weird situation in which we can use the terrible synapse rules to our advantage.

Pull said unit out of synapse and watch it break, eat itself, etc... and replace it with a fresh one.

OR... lets say our opponent legitimately does ignore the unit. Well it will still tie something up, eat overwatch, etc... Ignoring the models doesn't render them useless as it still only takes one gant to force an opponent to lose out on a shooting phase, etc...

This is what I would say, charge them in and force them to kill the stragglers or be tied up. I think small but elite units of Gaunts might be the best option here, Devilgants, Hormagaunts with Toxin, in smaller squads so that they do get killed off (I was thinking units of 20 Toxingaunts and 15 for Devilgaunts) with two Trygon Primes, and just pray for 4's.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah. Trygons gained nothing in the new 'Dex, and lost all their re-rolls. Why would people be re-tooling their Mawlocs into Trygons?

The endless swarm populates the Reserves, so Tunnel assault becomes a viable thing....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Argozian wrote:
So, not to be a negative-nancy, and maybe it is because i mostly play against a semi-WAAC Wolves player, but i can see him wiping a unit down to 5 or less and ignoring them. With superior ranged weapons and 3+ being his worst armor save, he can easily afford to. I know for sure that it will help put pressure on some people, but against my main opponent, it will be useless.

Toxin sac 'em, and close assault, he'll kill them with overwatch, if not you can do wounds from poison. Then come back for annother go when you're dead and gone...

Considering models coming out of the tunnel can't move or charge the turn they arrive, I'm not sure why people think this is suddenly super viable. They'll have to start at least one turn on the tunnel, so without Synapse camped nearby your hormagaunts still have a decent chance of killing themselves, and your termagants still have a not awful chance of showing up and then running away.

It's certainly a workable combo, and you may catch a few people with it, but it's not exactly redeeming anything. Especially when you factor in the low popularity of datasheets in the first place.

 streamdragon wrote:
Considering models coming out of the tunnel can't move or charge the turn they arrive, I'm not sure why people think this is suddenly super viable. They'll have to start at least one turn on the tunnel, so without Synapse camped nearby your hormagaunts still have a decent chance of killing themselves, and your termagants still have a not awful chance of showing up and then running away.

It's certainly a workable combo, and you may catch a few people with it, but it's not exactly redeeming anything. Especially when you factor in the low popularity of datasheets in the first place.

while I totally understand your point and don't really disagree with it, I think this goes back to a lot of nid players saying their biggest complaint about this codex was it was boring, unimaginative, and all around didn't play at all like nids should be played. This goes at least a little bit of the way to fixing that and gives you another play style and one that a lot of people will want to play around with even if its not really a competition grade list ability being that you are HEAVILY relying on a 4+ and synapse being around the turn after you come out of the tunnel ( you don't test after coming from reserves of course).

as far as dataslates go I personally am not as offended by them as I feel others are , considering they are a smart business move for the company and can make a lot of sense for things like space marine companys/chapters etc.

However I've got to admit this one bothers me a little, Endless Swarm should've 100% been in the codex , that would've ended/tempered a good portion of the complaints about the codex release in the first place and I highly doubt anyone would've dared to call it OP as you have to prey for a 4+ and if you don't get it then your whole game plan is down the drain.

I agree that stuff like this should have been in the Codex as an option to make up for our lack of Allies.

Or the removal of our spore pods.

Given how quickly Gaunt broods can be shredded I can see this as being useful in one form or another. Sure it isn't perfect but