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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
There we go. Something [NOT] Horus Heresy from Forge World. All those complainers can hopefully be quiet now.

So you think that if one Forge World release out of ten is not Horus heresy, then people should stop to complain that nine release out of ten are stupid variations on the very same stupid marines ?

NOPE.

I agree with the previous comments, Simon Egans character sculpts are IMO far better, however I do still like kharn and typhon. Not sold on lorgar, Erebus and kor pharon

Kor Pharon looked a lot better in the WIPs we saw, Kharn is pretty damn uninspired, Typhon I like but I get the feeling a lot of that is the paintjob, Fulgrim, Mannus and Lorgar I really think would not be notworthy at all if it weren't for the fact that they were primarch models. If a third party put out those exact same sculpts the response would be a lot more 'meh'.

Not a fan of Kharn, it just looks like a bit un-inspired, especially for £30.

Seriously, Kharn looks like a kitbash.

I don't have any issues with the character series sculpts so far... For the people hating on them, what poses would you prefer?

JSoul wrote:
I don't have any issues with the character series sculpts so far... For the people hating on them, what poses would you prefer?

I'm not sure where you're getting hate from? All I'm reading is people expressing criticism in a fairly rational way.

Either way, to answer your question, I actually think it would have been a braver, but much more interesting, decision to sculpt Kharn as he might look after he'd lost it and when the battle was over. A more static pose, maybe, but stood still, weapons hanging by his sides, perhaps slightly hunched over with exhaustion, with a fellow Marine lying dead at his feet would tell a far more interesting story, as at this point in the Heresy he is still very much struggling to hang on to his humanity and railing against the influence of the Nails.

Just to make him charging mindlessly forwards was an obvious and lazy choice, to almost exactly ape the pose of Angron even more so, and as they're charging £30 for a single 30mm scale mini, which is an order of magnitude significantly in advance of what anyone else, even the likes of KD and Mierce charge, they could risk a few lost sales by taking some artistic risks and still see a good return on the figure's production costs.

 azreal13 wrote:
Either way, to answer your question, I actually think it would have been a braver, but much more interesting, decision to sculpt Kharn as he might look after he'd lost it and when the battle was over. A more static pose, maybe, but stood still, weapons hanging by his sides, perhaps slightly hunched over with exhaustion, with a fellow Marine lying dead at his feet would tell a far more interesting story, as at this point in the Heresy he is still very much struggling to hang on to his humanity and railing against the influence of the Nails.

I don't know, I'm not really impressed by the "yet another generic space marine" approach here, but I'm not sure that's the way to go. It certainly has some artistic merit, but it would be hard to imagine that kind of pose fitting in with the rest of an army that is modeled in the middle of a battle. Instead of a centerpiece character for an army it would be pretty much limited to the occasional painting contest entry.

 Peregrine wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Either way, to answer your question, I actually think it would have been a braver, but much more interesting, decision to sculpt Kharn as he might look after he'd lost it and when the battle was over. A more static pose, maybe, but stood still, weapons hanging by his sides, perhaps slightly hunched over with exhaustion, with a fellow Marine lying dead at his feet would tell a far more interesting story, as at this point in the Heresy he is still very much struggling to hang on to his humanity and railing against the influence of the Nails.

I don't know, I'm not really impressed by the "yet another generic space marine" approach here, but I'm not sure that's the way to go. It certainly has some artistic merit, but it would be hard to imagine that kind of pose fitting in with the rest of an army that is modeled in the middle of a battle. Instead of a centerpiece character for an army it would be pretty much limited to the occasional painting contest entry.

But aren't GW adamant that the majority of their customers are collectors? I mean, they even have all these named minis in a separate "Character Series" section on the site, and they all come with massive display bases (I suspect very few people are actively playing 30K very often, I bet the majority of HH stuff sold is for collections or as alternates for 40K units)

I agree that's a potential flaw in the approach, but if someone really wanted to replicate something like the actual release, it would still be such an easy kitbash that a short sighted dolphin could do a reasonable job.

The armour is very nice, looks extra chunky. I very much dislike the bare skin, the pathetically small plasma pistol, boring helmet and odd pose. He looks off balance or as though his limbs are out of sync for someone who's chopping on the run.

After Typhon and the new command figures, this is definitely a misstep.

I can see using it in a diorama with piles of dead marines behind him and an equally impressive opponent in front of him painted like this but with the GW blood glaze over the paint.

For what it's worth I like the look of Kharn.. a little bit minimalistic, which I actually prefer to him being covered in skullz and spikes which would have been very easy for the sculptor to do. The WE are a pragmatic legion, they don't go in heavily for too much ornamentation. Pose is OK, I would probably use one of these helms with him though from Maxmini so he looks like the Kharn in collected visions

(Top middle one, then just add some small bunny ears)

 azreal13 wrote:
Either way, to answer your question, I actually think it would have been a braver, but much more interesting, decision to sculpt Kharn as he might look after he'd lost it and when the battle was over. A more static pose, maybe, but stood still, weapons hanging by his sides, perhaps slightly hunched over with exhaustion, with a fellow Marine lying dead at his feet would tell a far more interesting story, as at this point in the Heresy he is still very much struggling to hang on to his humanity and railing against the influence of the Nails.

I'd really love to see this actually.

tgjensen wrote:
I may not be up to speed on HH World Eaters fluff, but isn't his helmet kind of... modern looking?

His helm looks like a Mk IV Maximus variant.

I wonder if they now plan to go back and fill in the gaps of the non primarch characters from betrayal? I for one would love to see Rylanor

 Sirius42 wrote:
I agree with the previous comments, Simon Egans character sculpts are IMO far better, however I do still like kharn and typhon. Not sold on lorgar, Erebus and kor pharon

This...I look at the Simon Egan sculpts (Angron, Fulgrim, Ferrus Manus, abaddon and Loken) and they are just WAY more awesome than anything that Edgar Skomorowski has put out (Lorgar, Erebus/Kor Pheron, Kharn, Typhon)

That being said, I do like Typhon but feel like his character is an easy one to capture. I like Kharn as well but definitely see what people are saying about him looking a bit like a kitbash. I will be buying Kharn but only because I'm currently in love with world eaters. Everything else that Skomorowski has done has been a bit disappointing. I like the Lorgar model well enough but I think that if it wasn't Lorgar, I would find the model itself pretty unremarkable.

 azreal13 wrote:

JSoul wrote:
I don't have any issues with the character series sculpts so far... For the people hating on them, what poses would you prefer?

I'm not sure where you're getting hate from? All I'm reading is people expressing criticism in a fairly rational way.

Either way, to answer your question, I actually think it would have been a braver, but much more interesting, decision to sculpt Kharn as he might look after he'd lost it and when the battle was over. A more static pose, maybe, but stood still, weapons hanging by his sides, perhaps slightly hunched over with exhaustion, with a fellow Marine lying dead at his feet would tell a far more interesting story, as at this point in the Heresy he is still very much struggling to hang on to his humanity and railing against the influence of the Nails.

Just to make him charging mindlessly forwards was an obvious and lazy choice, to almost exactly ape the pose of Angron even more so, and as they're charging £30 for a single 30mm scale mini, which is an order of magnitude significantly in advance of what anyone else, even the likes of KD and Mierce charge, they could risk a few lost sales by taking some artistic risks and still see a good return on the figure's production costs.

There seems to be more negative opinions on Kharn than positive and none of it seems to be constructive criticism. I mean that in a sense of what people would actually like to see. I think your post is the first to actually suggest a pose with some thought behind it (which is a great suggestion btw!). I'd love to hear more opinions from people on how they'd like the sculpts instead of "too static, not Kharny enough, looks like a kitbash" etc.
It's funny though, people criticized Lorgar for having a reflective static pose, whilst now people are criticizing Kharn of all people for a dynamic battle pose!
In the end the Forgeworld guys can't please everyone but I think the character series so far has been quite impressive.

Thing is, to a certain degree, miniatures are sculpture, and therefore an art form.

You're perfectly entitled to dislike something artistic for no rational reason whatsoever, and while people can wax lyrical about the positives or negatives of any given work, it is ok to just say "I don't like it" with no rationale whatsoever, let alone be obligated to offer ways it could be changed or improved, just as much as it's ok to love it unreservedly.

Why I picked up on your comment is the word "hate" carries a lot of connotations specifically within this sort of community which I just didn't see, negativity sure, but 'hate' not so much.

JSoul wrote:
It's funny though, people criticized Lorgar for having a reflective static pose, whilst now people are criticizing Kharn of all people for a dynamic battle pose!

It isn't just that it's a dynamic battle pose, it's that it's a pose very similar to the one used for the primarch model and the model doesn't really do anything all that interesting. The end result is it's a generic power armor melee marine that isn't very far from what you could convert yourself. I don't think it's a bad model, but it isn't one that really inspires me to want it.

I agree completely on the art side of things but it sometimes gets to a point where it sounds like the repetitive "I'm right and they're wrong" line with no thoughtful reasoning behind it. It just gets tiring to read.

In regards to my choice of the word 'hate', I obviously didn't mean it literally of course. And I'm pretty sure no one else would have read it that way. "Hating" on something has become a figure of speech these days when referring to something negatively.

JSoul wrote:
I agree completely on the art side of things but it sometimes gets to a point where it sounds like the repetitive "I'm right and they're wrong" line with no thoughtful reasoning behind it. It just gets tiring to read.

I really don't know where this repetition is. I've seen plenty of favorable comments on FW stuff, and even this model isn't really getting much "hate". The most common reaction is "well, it's a competently executed space marine, but nothing exciting *yawn*", not "I HATE IT IT SUCKS.

 Peregrine wrote:

JSoul wrote:
It's funny though, people criticized Lorgar for having a reflective static pose, whilst now people are criticizing Kharn of all people for a dynamic battle pose!

It isn't just that it's a dynamic battle pose, it's that it's a pose very similar to the one used for the primarch model and the model doesn't really do anything all that interesting. The end result is it's a generic power armor melee marine that isn't very far from what you could convert yourself. I don't think it's a bad model, but it isn't one that really inspires me to want it.

It's definitely too similar to Angron I agree, even though I quite like the sculpt. I think the artist did this on purpose though if I remember the video interview correctly. It's an interesting choice as Kharn would be one model where you could pick a thousand different brutal poses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

JSoul wrote:
I agree completely on the art side of things but it sometimes gets to a point where it sounds like the repetitive "I'm right and they're wrong" line with no thoughtful reasoning behind it. It just gets tiring to read.

I really don't know where this repetition is. I've seen plenty of favorable comments on FW stuff, and even this model isn't really getting much "hate". The most common reaction is "well, it's a competently executed space marine, but nothing exciting *yawn*", not "I HATE IT IT SUCKS.

Oh dear. Please re-read the second part of my post. I used 'hate' as a figure of speech, not in a literal sense.

I actually love the idea of a kharn model standing with his weapons down at his sides over a slain foe with more of a pensive look to him. I might even try something like this myself as an alternative to this model.

Ill still buy it because I like it...but I wouldnt mind having two kharns. Ill just use the bare head on the original and the helmet on my kitbash

I don't mind the Kharn model. I think the helmet looks a lot better than the base head, but he really looks quite generic in too many ways. Not unique enough from, say these guys:



As noted by other, I'd have rather seen a figure that was more distinctly Kharn pre-Khorne - so this pic (shown earlier) would have really been ideal to see in the blue and white WE livery. Or at least more like this. Hm. I wonder what the helmet options on the Chaos Knights are like?

Kharn needs the obliged Argel Tal to go with him. I wonder if they'll put them in a diorama.

JSoul wrote:
I agree completely on the art side of things but it sometimes gets to a point where it sounds like the repetitive "I'm right and they're wrong" line with no thoughtful reasoning behind it. It just gets tiring to read.

I think you're being.. maybe not harsh but I think you're coming off as if you are trying to defend it a lot harder than any of us are trying to criticism it.
But I don't entirely disagree with you so if you'd like some actual criticisms instead of just 'it's bad' let me run through why I dislike it:

1) Posing
I think there was a lot of potential there to parody Angron's pose. Make Kharn look like the son he is by mirroring Angron or something. Otherwise, as I said earlier, I thought the suggestion that Kharn could be static and thoughtful would have been really cool. These are models for characters in the game and I understand that but at the same time they are also part of a series clearly designed to be more display pieces, not everyone needs to be charging forwards.
As well there is the fact that with one foot almost flat on the ground and the other leg kind of off to the side it looks less like running and more like he is stumbling or just walking really oddly.

2) The helmet
I hate it, I think the vox grill looks like an unhappy mouth and it throws me every time I see it. It makes the whole model look really cartoony. None of the detail there seems terribly sharp either and the plume seems too small and goes half unnoticed, it should have either been more prominent or removed. Looking again I've only just seen the helmet less option and god that is so much better, why is that not the first image they show?

3) That ing pistol
A lot of FWs HH line are cool new variations on the (now somewhat stale) Space Marine. Some of FWs HH line are modern interpretations of classic stuff that keep the feel of the old 90s stuff while also making it look cool on a modern tabletop. That pistol, like the giant axe guy that GW released with Apoc, is an attempt at that that's fallen flat on it's face and come out awful. It's tiny, it looks silly with the skull on it and it just feels non threatening.

4) Nothing about the model cries 'Kharn'
Typhus, Abbadon, Eberus and Kor Pharon all look like themselves. You won't confuse Abbadon with a generic Sons of Horus captain in termi armour. Loken you might but then he is a relatively new inclusion (into the fluff), there is no excuse for Kharn to ever look like a model that could be confused with any other bezerker with a plasma pistol.

5) Falling marine on the base
I know it's kinda redundant at this point but c'mon. I get that it's Kharn and that if he is going to be in a charging pose someone needs to be dying but I hate the marine falling back like that. Ferrus and Fulgrim had it right I think. dead marines piled up around them, not falling over. Also I still can't figure out how that severed arm got there, it seems to be falling into the direction the blow came from which confuses me.

So yeah, that's why I dislike it.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/News/FORGE_WORLD_BLOG_4.html

FORGE WORLD BLOG #4

It would be hard to have missed the news that the Forge World Open Day is coming soon. Since tickets went on sale last week, they've flown out faster than an Eldar Nightwing and have completely sold out. Yesterday, I caught a glimpse of two of the new Event Only models for 2014 that will be unveiled and on sale at the Open Day.





Event only models for 2014, available at all global events attended by Forge World.

I've also heard that the identity of the next Primarch will be revealed at the Open Day. Rumour has it that he'll even be on sale in very limited numbers as a pre-release there!

Neil Cook and Blake Spence from the Forge World Studio recently unleashed their Horus Heresy armies on one of the fantastic tables in Warhammer World in a 4,000 point a side battle set on war-torn Isstvan III. Neil's World Eaters rely on speed, charging towards the Loyalists and sending Jetbike squadrons and Contemptor Dreadnoughts to outflank their foes. Heavier units, including a Sicaran Venator and Rapier Weapons Battery, hold back to lend long range fire support.



Destruction lurks in the ruins of Isstvan III.

Blake's Emperor's Children have taken a different path, turning from their Primarch's treachery. They've decided heavy armour is the key to winning this battle. With a Predator squadron supporting their Fellblade, this sheer weight of firepower could very well wipe out the Traitors.




The Legion brings out its big guns.

If you have your own Legion, why not send us some photos of it via our Facebook page.


That’s all from me for now. Make sure you check back soon for more from the Forge World Studio.


Chris.


Keep up with the latest Forge World news by subscribing to our newsletter. Simply send an email to Newsletter Subscription.

Have your say by liking us on Facebook or following us on Twitter. You can also watch our latest videos by subscribing to our Forge World Visual Feed YouTube channel.


Posted by Forge World

So Horus at the open day then?

 jonolikespie wrote:

JSoul wrote:
I agree completely on the art side of things but it sometimes gets to a point where it sounds like the repetitive "I'm right and they're wrong" line with no thoughtful reasoning behind it. It just gets tiring to read.

I think you're being.. maybe not harsh but I think you're coming off as if you are trying to defend it a lot harder than any of us are trying to criticism it.
But I don't entirely disagree with you so if you'd like some actual criticisms instead of just 'it's bad' let me run through why I dislike it:

1) Posing
I think there was a lot of potential there to parody Angron's pose. Make Kharn look like the son he is by mirroring Angron or something. Otherwise, as I said earlier, I thought the suggestion that Kharn could be static and thoughtful would have been really cool. These are models for characters in the game and I understand that but at the same time they are also part of a series clearly designed to be more display pieces, not everyone needs to be charging forwards.
As well there is the fact that with one foot almost flat on the ground and the other leg kind of off to the side it looks less like running and more like he is stumbling or just walking really oddly.

2) The helmet
I hate it, I think the vox grill looks like an unhappy mouth and it throws me every time I see it. It makes the whole model look really cartoony. None of the detail there seems terribly sharp either and the plume seems too small and goes half unnoticed, it should have either been more prominent or removed. Looking again I've only just seen the helmet less option and god that is so much better, why is that not the first image they show?

3) That ing pistol
A lot of FWs HH line are cool new variations on the (now somewhat stale) Space Marine. Some of FWs HH line are modern interpretations of classic stuff that keep the feel of the old 90s stuff while also making it look cool on a modern tabletop. That pistol, like the giant axe guy that GW released with Apoc, is an attempt at that that's fallen flat on it's face and come out awful. It's tiny, it looks silly with the skull on it and it just feels non threatening.

4) Nothing about the model cries 'Kharn'
Typhus, Abbadon, Eberus and Kor Pharon all look like themselves. You won't confuse Abbadon with a generic Sons of Horus captain in termi armour. Loken you might but then he is a relatively new inclusion (into the fluff), there is no excuse for Kharn to ever look like a model that could be confused with any other bezerker with a plasma pistol.

5) Falling marine on the base
I know it's kinda redundant at this point but c'mon. I get that it's Kharn and that if he is going to be in a charging pose someone needs to be dying but I hate the marine falling back like that. Ferrus and Fulgrim had it right I think. dead marines piled up around them, not falling over. Also I still can't figure out how that severed arm got there, it seems to be falling into the direction the blow came from which confuses me.

So yeah, that's why I dislike it.

Fair enough mate, and point taken. Perhaps I was a little too enthusiastic in defending it. My apologies to the people I may have offended. Sometimes I just get a bit tired of what I read as unwarranted or poorly explained criticism. I probably just need a beer!
Some of your points I have to admit, I completely agree with too. Particularly that pistol lol.

That exclusive looks an awful lot like it could be Kraatos, I was rather hoping I'd be able to buy him without having to scour ebay or attend an event. Looks like I may just have to go to Salute now, not that I was looking for an excuse or anything.