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Haighus wrote:
Just noticed what looks like some new knight arm variants- a big flamer and a single chamber vulkan mega bolter by the looks of it- in the link H.B.M.C posted a couple of pages back.

No it is a dual set you can see the second ammo belt just behind the first one

Dem Gorgons

I'll have to wait and see the final ones to tell if I agree with sock's comment, but I'm sold based on the helmets alone.

The variant Adsecularis are nice if a little on the chunky side, but they just reinforce my consternation at FW with the continuing absence of packs of human-, power armour-, and terminator-scale bionic bitz.

Having stared at the Siege-Automata for a while....I can't decide if it's good or rubbish. The plasma mortar is awesome, and it takes a lot of design cues from the Castellax which I love, but it almost seems too clean. I look at it and it doesn't yell "Mechanicum" to me. The new Kreos however is excellent, the shorter and chunkier weapon combined with the variant gunshield seem much more in-balance with the track units.

The bared heads in the new Legion upgrade packs look great, much less derpy than the first couple we saw.

Anyone find out when Extermination goes on general sale?

Mmmm.

I like the Alpha's legion trait. Choosing an USR from a shortlist after rolls for warlord traits has been made for the entire army gives some nice flexibility.

The sniper character is pure awsome, (I mean, his rifle is named 'the Instrument') and so are the Lernaean terminators too. Poweraxes, volkite chargers, and 2 per 5 may take conversion beamers.

Mmmm.. fix is niiiiice...

 Yodhrin wrote:

Having stared at the Siege-Automata for a while....I can't decide if it's good or rubbish. The plasma mortar is awesome, and it takes a lot of design cues from the Castellax which I love, but it almost seems too clean. I look at it and it doesn't yell "Mechanicum" to me. The new Kreos however is excellent, the shorter and chunkier weapon combined with the variant gunshield seem much more in-balance with the track units.

I rather prefer the cleaner look on the automata over the 1930's pulp guns on 1918 tanks. Ymmv.

Anyone see anything about the rules for the new Falchion (the new one that was for sale today) and legion Stormblade superheavy tanks?

Here's hoping it's two Volcano Cannons rather than a single TL'ed version.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Here's hoping it's two Volcano Cannons rather than a single TL'ed version.

Forgeworld has a tendency to make awesome looking tanks with awesome looking guns with rules which make you go "buah?"

Consider the Macharius; amazing looking tank, more than twice the cost of a Leman Russ, but with a whopping +2'' radius on a battlecannon shot.

Woo.

They might do something similar here actually; larger radius, TL, ridiculously higher points cost.

Oh I know. The Macharius is a horrendously bad tank and acts as one of the many clear examples of why Super Heavies are stupidly overcosted, but I'm just hoping the new SM tank is actually worthwhile.

FW's rules always seem to be a but more fluff-centric, and considering everything they make are supposed to be super-rare stuff, everything is expensive.

Do we know what the new legion spefic rules are yet?

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
FW's rules always seem to be a but more fluff-centric, and considering everything they make are supposed to be super-rare stuff, everything is expensive.

There's no reason why "fluff" and "power" cannot be congruous. In fact, the more fluffy something is the more powerful it should be.

No, it's just that they will be really expensive because they are supposed to be super-rare. No offense meant, but could you re-read my post?

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
No, it's just that they will be really expensive because they are supposed to be super-rare. No offense meant, but could you re-read my post?

I believe his point was that, in the fluff, that super-rare stuff is supposed to be planet-wrecking, army-smashing, god-slaying powerful, not marginally more powerful than a stock unit for + 50% of the cost. If anything, one of the core problems in 40k is that what is fluffy, in what is supposed to be a game about "Forging the Narrative," is often quite weak compared to balance outliers, questionably designed pieces of wargears/units and so on.

When's the last time you've seen 5 Tactical Squads lead by a Captain, backed by a single dreadnought do anything other than die horribly, for instance.

Well I said more fluff-centric, not completely based on the fluff.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
No, it's just that they will be really expensive because they are supposed to be super-rare.

That's just as bad. If something is rare then you make it rare. You don't inflate its price.

How? The only way I can think of is making it one per army.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
How? The only way I can think of is making it one per army.

That's what they do if you want to use 30k units in 40k; one per army, if you want more, you need one techmarine per unit.

Via Fen on Warseer

IF
-must challenge,rerolls to hit in challenge
-+1BS with bolt-type weapons.TkH on heavy weapon squads
-stubborn while inside fortifications/barricades/covers
-enemy may force to ignore the variable lenght rule and play 6 full turns

Can't have more FA/Elite than troops
Dorn is the cheaper primarch in the book.Makes for a good melee fighter,can halve his attacks to add 2 str & ID to them.He can buff 3 fortifications per game
-Sire of the Imperial fists:Every IF on the field can use his LD for leadership and pinning tests.He and every IF unit gain +d3 to see who wins a combat while he's in play
-Can have a special Thunderhawk as dedicated transport (no LoW slot used)
Sigismund and Polux were plain to see in the preview

Special equipment
-Solarite power first (only characters,replace TH,standard PF with better AP & Mc.)
-Vigilus pattern stormshield (works as 40k storm shield,terminators/terminator characters)
-Prototype pattern AC (shared with the BA,works as 40k AC but on triple 1 can't be fired for the rest of the game,can be taken instead of flamers by terminator squads)
-Teleporttation transponder (unit with it can DS,terminators/terminator command squads)

Templar brethren- WS 5,2A,artificer armour,power swords and furious charge for entire unit.The chapter champion has 2W
Phalanx warder squad- unique breacher squad , may be upto 20 man strong - every man may take a power axe.+1I if charged as long as 5+ warder alive.Every friendly model that joins the unit gains the bonus


IW
-all grenades have wrecker
-rerolls pinning and ignore morale tests from shooting
-they seem to have a rule that encourages firing bolters before charging (can't find what it does atm)
-same as the fist,they might be forced to play 6 turn games


Warsmiths are an upgrade for one praetor per army.Can nerf enemy terrains like 40k warpsmiths.can't be given some equipment but gains another special rule
Golg (tertminator praetor) makes terminator troops
Valhen (warsmith) is a good defensive character and a loyalist
Perturabo makes for a good fighter with Forgebreaker (that must be paid as an upgrade,he punches people with his fists without it).Can call down an orbital bombardment per game and start to roll reserves sooner than normal
-Sire of the Iron warriors:makes every IW stubborn if he's on the field.
-Can have a special Shadowsword as dedicated transport (no LoW slot used)


Special equipment
-Shrapnel bolts (reduces ap,gives pinning,only heavy bolter-type weapons)
-Cortex Controller (only warsmiths/techmarines)

Tyrant siege terminators - terminator squad ALL equipped with cyclone launchers with wrecker usr
Iron havoc squad - heavy support unit with tank hunters and deadly aim ( reduces enemy cover save by 1 ),start with shrapnel bolt heavy bolters and can upgrade to ml/autocannons/lascannon

RG
-infantry has infiltrate and fleet
-everything else (non veichle/walker) has furious charge
-can't have more tanks than infantry units

Corax has good stats.One rule gives him multiple attack patterns.Enemies can fire at him only as snapshot (unless demons/psychers and some other things like that) and he might ALWAYS be removed from the table and placed back in reserve (even if he's in melee,unless the enemy has higher I than he does)
-Sire of the raven guard:All the RG units consider run dice as 6" and have acute sense while he's on the field.He has +1I +1S every turn he charges
-he has a second version of the rules to represent his weakened form during the hunt/escape from Istvaan (lesser stats/lost-replaced-damaged equipment)
Strike captain Mauln is a unique consul,he allows reroll of reserve for drop pods/flyers


Special equipment
-Raven talons (any model with LC,upgrades them to Mc.+rending)
-Camelioline (same as always,only on foot PA characters)
-Infravisor (gain night vision,tests blind on I1,only characters)

Darkwing pattern storm eagle - reduced transport capacity,stealth,outflank
Dark fury assault team:Jump infantry with bonus I on charge and special cover save the turn they deep strike

AL
-must choose one of the following for everyone when picking warlords traits - scout, infiltrate, tank hunters, counter-attack, move through cover, adamntium will
-if you suffer more units destroyed than your opponent you concede an additional victory point

They have a special consul type,the saboteur.He must start in reserve and has a special attack when he enters the field,doesnt count for the number of minimum hq choices/number of unit in reserve and canìt join units.As the warsmith,can't be given some equipment and has some extras of his own
There is a rule that allows them to take units that are not from the AL list
Alpharius has taken some lessons from dark elves assassins (he can hide inside units and pop-out when he wants to).He steals initiative on 4+ and outflanking units have bonus movement when entering the field.Also,if the enemy has a unit in reserve of the same type of an AL unit in reserve,when the enemy brings that unit in play,on 4+ the AL unit enters the game instead.
-Sire of the Alpha legion.Once he reveals,all AL model have prefferred enemy (everything).He has PE(e.),counter attack , move through cover , scout , crusader once revealed
Exodus is a really good sniper
Dynat is a special praetor

Special equipment:
-venom spheres (taken by praetor/apoth/tech with frag granades,gives HoW)
-venom spheres harness
-banestrike shells (same as BL)
-power daggers (same as power swords but lowers strenght and gives rending)

Headhunter kill team - seeker squad , all armed with banestrike shells and power daggers
Lernaean terminator squad - cataphractii squad with power axes and volkite chargers,two may take conversion beamers

Each primarch has obviosly more rules than those,mostly from weapon/armors

Source:various ones i've underlined the 3 parts that seem to be reported by one source only (probably they are rites of war,but i've found nothing on those so far to confirm it)

Hey look at that. Legion rules.

Damned shame that after the Heresy the Legions completely forgot how to do any of that stuff.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hey look at that. Legion rules.

Damned shame that after the Heresy the Legions completely forgot how to do any of that stuff.

Why do all those characterful things when you can just send your cultists and Daemon Princes and Heldrakes out of the Eye to take care of business. Chaos Space Marines: the reigning 10,000 year needlepoint champions.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hey look at that. Legion rules.

Damned shame that after the Heresy the Legions completely forgot how to do any of that stuff.

You know the Laws of Chaos.

Rule #1) Drop all equipment and visit the Amnesia Demon before entering the Eye.

Rule #2) There's only Rule #1.

Seriously? You're griping about equipment? Two entire legions were wiped out and removed from the records. Why would the Chaos Legions even bother to keep their mouth shut about that when they could use it to further weaken the Emperor's credibility? I mean almost all of the Chaos Primarchs are still around in one form or another so it's not like they wouldn't have ever met their missing two brothers.

Cut him some slack... the chaos thread has died down so all the players whining there need someplace new to whine. Much like Dark Eldar, they feed on it and it isn't fulfilling if no one reads the thread.

 TalonZahn wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hey look at that. Legion rules.

Damned shame that after the Heresy the Legions completely forgot how to do any of that stuff.

You know the Laws of Chaos.

Rule #1) Drop all equipment and visit the Amnesia Demon before entering the Eye.

Rule #2) There's only Rule #1.

Devils advocate... Just like the Imperium, chaos marines also lost the ability to get certain technologies. As far as lost skills go the most feasible answer is that many of these skills couldn't be maintained to such an elite status with generally smaller army sizes. If only 1:1000 guys is good enough to be an elite siege works marine after the heresy those skills either atrophy or in some instances become the emphasis of chapters which drill them harder than others.

Well, except it's not like the Imperium since... you know, they still have "special" rules.

@Warboss - Yea, it's like the RRT thread.

@ Breo - It's hard to meet dead people that are being saved as Plot Armor.

Just glad to get some IW rules. Now the long wait until the models appear.

Probably in May.

Robotech is a brand new suck though that is constantly evolving like a Pokemon into something worse. Chaos have to my recollection over the past almost 20 years and 5 dedicated codex books only had legion rules once for around 3-4 years... and it was the most broken codex of its time partly due to the legion rules (IW.. I'm looking at you!). There are acceptable alternatives to use in the meantime.

If you have a "legion" style army that is in 40k still holding true to its original legion organization and traditions, you can use the FW legion rules.

If you have a mixed army that split amongst the traditionalists whereas other squads have embraced new sources of power, you use the ally rules for the minority faction and the primary detachment is the majority.

If the legion has largely broken up and fully embraced the warp, you use the Chaos codex.

I agree it would be hunky dory if GW came out with a single codex with legion rules for 40k but they simply won't do that... period. At best, they'll trickle out one at a time with 4 pages of rules for $50 like the Black Legion and the Crimson whatever counts as Word Bearers.

 Breotan wrote:
Seriously? You're griping about equipment?

Who's griping about equipment?

 aka_mythos wrote:
Devils advocate... Just like the Imperium, chaos marines also lost the ability to get certain technologies. As far as lost skills go the most feasible answer is that many of these skills couldn't be maintained to such an elite status with generally smaller army sizes. If only 1:1000 guys is good enough to be an elite siege works marine after the heresy those skills either atrophy or in some instances become the emphasis of chapters which drill them harder than others.

Hey, next time around let's roll the Dark Angels and the Blood Angels into the regular Marine Codex. I mean, they're both Codex Chapters (with slight differences here and there), so they could easily be made part of the main Marine Codex.





Just playing Devil's Advocate.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Hey, next time around let's roll the Dark Angels and the Blood Angels into the regular Marine Codex. I mean, they're both Codex Chapters (with slight differences here and there), so they could easily be made part of the main Marine Codex.

If they existed in their 3rd edition state like the last time Chaos had legion rules in a proper 40k codex, I'd have been fine with that. In the intervening almost 10 years, they've been bloated with new unique units and that isn't a viable choice without invalidating models something that isn't true of chaos marines.

 warboss wrote:

I agree it would be hunky dory if GW came out with a single codex with legion rules for 40k but they simply won't do that... period..

Why not? They did it for Codex: Space Marines. Actually, after C:SM sold so well (I think?), I fully expect the next C:CSM to have legion rules. Right now I think the only reason 6th Ed C:CSM doesn't is because it had the misfortune of coming out before C:SM.

 warboss wrote:
If they existed in their 3rd edition state like the last time Chaos had legion rules in a proper 40k codex, I'd have been fine with that. In the intervening almost 10 years, they've been bloated with new unique units and that isn't a viable choice without invalidating models something that isn't true of chaos marines.

Nah! Just roll 'em in, just like the Black Templars. No need for a whole book. Death Company and Raven Guard Bikers as their unique units, and let them take Jump Packs on Command Squads (for BA's) and Terminator Armour on Command Squads (for DA's). A few special rules and there, done. No need for whole books.