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 AlexHolker wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
What's the point of three-legged robots? Wouldn't they have a real hard time moving efficiently?

Yes.

Maybe that otherwise useless crab hand acts as a fourth leg.

Wonderwolf wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
What's the point of three-legged robots? Wouldn't they have a real hard time moving efficiently?

As opposed to two-legged robots?

If you can get over a stunty, no-knee, impossible-to-get-body-centre-of-gravity-over-one-leg Dreadnought "walking" (allegedly), these shouldn't be much of a stretch.

I'm not in love with the 40k dreadnought design but humanoid robots with two legs, while pretty dumb in concept, are a staple of sci-fi and the design is iconic, which makes suspension of disbelief pretty easy. I don't know why but three-legged things just really stick out like a sore thumb to me. There was another game that had them recently as well.

$112 seems a bit steep for what you're getting.

Are the contents 100% finalized?

 Mymearan wrote:
What's the point of three-legged robots? Wouldn't they have a real hard time moving efficiently?

Only if they move slowly.

And three legs provide the most stable platform when standing still.

It does, but these guys aren't supposed to be turrets, or are they?

 Alpharius wrote:
$112 seems a bit steep for what you're getting.

Are the contents 100% finalized?

Maybe I'm desensitized due to abuse by GW, but isn't it fairly standard pricing?

Hard bound full rulebook, dice(looks like army specific), templates, 2 armies.

I guess they could have done a different second army so that it had an image of more models per dollar. Looks like the Ghar walkers must be priced like SM Centurions.

£70 doesn't seem to bad in my eyes, not amazing but not bad. I suspect it will be around the £60 mark when discounted which is much more desirable.

$112 for 30 plastic minis seems steep to me.

But...maybe that is just me?

A lot of my opinion of that price depends on how big that rulebook is. It is hardcover, so it might be seriously affecting the value of the set.

 TheWaspinator wrote:
A lot of my opinion of that price depends on how big that rulebook is. It is hardcover, so it might be seriously affecting the value of the set.

I managed to find info the book...

the Hardback rulebook (which has grown to more than 290 pages – packed with backstory, never-before-seen artwork, army lists for all six of the initial races, and the full rules for the game.)

http://www.beastsofwar.com/groups/sci-fi-gamer-town-square/forum/topic/beyond-the-gates-of-antares-3/
Sound like a serious book.

Personally I hope it does well.

EDIT: Sorry for all the edits, my laptop's machine spirit rolled a 1.

 Bulldogging wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
$112 seems a bit steep for what you're getting.

Are the contents 100% finalized?

Maybe I'm desensitized due to abuse by GW, but isn't it fairly standard pricing?

Hard bound full rulebook, dice(looks like army specific), templates, 2 armies.

I guess they could have done a different second army so that it had an image of more models per dollar. Looks like the Ghar walkers must be priced like SM Centurions.

Sure, but GW's starters are known quantities. For some new game trying to make a splash on the scene (or some other metaphors), the pricing seems presumptuous.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
$112 for 30 plastic minis seems steep to me.

But...maybe that is just me?

It is not just you. I also see this as a "miniatures only pledge that includes free rules", and as such it is not a good deal.

 Alpharius wrote:
$112 for 30 plastic minis seems steep to me.

But...maybe that is just me?

Nope, not just you. I am not sure why Warlord is charging so much more for these minis. Their historical stuff is just as nice and much more reasonably priced. I have some of the Algoryn that I bought during the testing phase and while I think they're really nice, they seem a bit pricey. Being a new game, you'd hope they would come in at a decent price and get more people interested. The price tag and the fact it's only 30 minis may deter people from buying it.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
$112 seems a bit steep for what you're getting.

Are the contents 100% finalized?

Maybe I'm desensitized due to abuse by GW, but isn't it fairly standard pricing?

Hard bound full rulebook, dice(looks like army specific), templates, 2 armies.

I guess they could have done a different second army so that it had an image of more models per dollar. Looks like the Ghar walkers must be priced like SM Centurions.

Sure, but GW's starters are known quantities. For some new game trying to make a splash on the scene (or some other metaphors), the pricing seems presumptuous.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
$112 for 30 plastic minis seems steep to me.

But...maybe that is just me?

It is not just you. I also see this as a "miniatures only pledge that includes free rules", and as such it is not a good deal.

Additionally, the miniatures in the two most recent GW box sets have been really fantastic. Those DV Chosen are still basically the most awesome Chaos models in the current range.

This stuff, on the other hand, looks like GW/Citadel second stringers from the early 1990s produced them. Not exactly AWFUL, but compared to the overall quality of wargames (not just GW) out there today, they are perhaps competitive (I personally have a low opinion of them, but others clearly like them), but even if you like them, the quality of the designs doesn't justify the price point. The only reason GW keeps getting away with outrageous pricing is that its designs and execution is pretty great.

-C6

What's actually wrong with these? They look more natural and normal than GW designs anyway. GW has these huge bulging meat sacks covered to the extreme with useless details or covered to the extreme in really thick and chunky armour also covered in details.

It's probably worth noting that it's the style of these you do not like rather than the technical quality. I personally much prefer the more normal style of these sculpts than all of the GW models I have ever purchased.

Can you explain how these models are "GW/Citadel second stringers from the early 1990s"? Because all im seeing is a different style of models (more natural and normal compared to GW action figure style).

 Swastakowey wrote:
What's actually wrong with these? They look more natural and normal than GW designs anyway. GW has these huge bulging meat sacks covered to the extreme with useless details or covered to the extreme in really thick and chunky armour also covered in details.

It's probably worth noting that it's the style of these you do not like rather than the technical quality. I personally much prefer the more normal style of these sculpts than all of the GW models I have ever purchased.

Can you explain how these models are "GW/Citadel second stringers from the early 1990s"? Because all im seeing is a different style of models (more natural and normal compared to GW action figure style).

First of all, crab-clawed tripods are normal for you?

Second, take a look at where the Gates Guys' shoulders are and where their necks are and tell me again about normal proportions.

Third, outside of the drones and Rainbow Mantis Daleks, the Gates minis are generic, without anything that makes them stand out over Mantic Enforcers, Dreamforge Stormtroopers, or MEdge Karists that would justify the price disparity.

Third and a half, GW's minis are not out of proportion, but rather heavily stylized. Complaining about them is equivalent to snarking about chibi minis for having stubby limbs and huge heads. It doesn't reflect as much on the minis as you might think.

All of that doesn't really matter since the price is so audacious as to render a mote in the mini's eye into a beam at the till. An expensive beam. therefore, we definitely need to judge those motes, lest we be fleeced.

(I failed that course on metaphors like a brick through butter.)

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
What's actually wrong with these? They look more natural and normal than GW designs anyway. GW has these huge bulging meat sacks covered to the extreme with useless details or covered to the extreme in really thick and chunky armour also covered in details.

It's probably worth noting that it's the style of these you do not like rather than the technical quality. I personally much prefer the more normal style of these sculpts than all of the GW models I have ever purchased.

Can you explain how these models are "GW/Citadel second stringers from the early 1990s"? Because all im seeing is a different style of models (more natural and normal compared to GW action figure style).

First of all, crab-clawed tripods are normal for you?

Second, take a look at where the Gates Guys' shoulders are and where their necks are and tell me again about normal proportions.

Third, outside of the drones and Rainbow Mantis Daleks, the Gates minis are generic, without anything that makes them stand out over Mantic Enforcers, Dreamforge Stormtroopers, or MEdge Karists that would justify the price disparity.

Third and a half, GW's minis are not out of proportion, but rather heavily stylized. Complaining about them is equivalent to snarking about chibi minis for having stubby limbs and huge heads. It doesn't reflect as much on the minis as you might think.

All of that doesn't really matter since the price is so audacious as to render a mote in the mini's eye into a beam at the till. An expensive beam. therefore, we definitely need to judge those motes, lest we be fleeced.

(I failed that course on metaphors like a brick through butter.)

I don't care about generic, I actually prefer normal look generic over fanc etc.

The crab alien walker things I agree on, but the guys I looked at on the store looks pretty fine to me. Nothing backward or bad about them. I actually really like them. Again though, you seem to be attacking the style not the technical quality... I was merely saying that I like the style of these models but not GW style to show that if it's style then the models aren't "GW/Citadel second stringers from the early 1990s " (well not that I can see) and more just a different style.

These like fine. Especially the infantry and the beginner armies on their website. Nothing like these sorts of items that actually came from the 90s





I mean come on, these gates models are way beyond that...

I love the three-legged guys. Very interesting looking, and a nice departure from the 'humanoid' dreadnaught design we see in other games.

Will have to watch this one.

 Swastakowey wrote:


Third and a half, GW's minis are not out of proportion, but rather heavily stylized. Complaining about them is equivalent to snarking about chibi minis for having stubby limbs and huge heads. It doesn't reflect as much on the minis as you might think.
)

Put any GW mini beside any Infinity mini and say again that GW aren't out of proportion.

Not a fan of GW models, there are some exceptions of course. These are much nicer.

 Eggs wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


Third and a half, GW's minis are not out of proportion, but rather heavily stylized. Complaining about them is equivalent to snarking about chibi minis for having stubby limbs and huge heads. It doesn't reflect as much on the minis as you might think.
)

Put any GW mini beside any Infinity mini and say again that GW aren't out of proportion.

that quote got messed up, Eggs, it was Bob that said that...

i put GW minis next to Infinity minis everyday, and then i paint the GW mini, because that is the style i prefer...
"heavily stylized" is how i like my minis best...
i still buy a lot of Infinity, but true-scale doesn't inspire me to paint as much as heroic-scale does...
i want my minis to look like they just stepped out of a comic book...

these GoA minis are alright, but i don't see them making me reach for my wallet...
i think the price is fair...
it's not cheap to design and tool these plastics, and a hardback rulebook isn't a cheap investment either...
then there is the balance between how cheap to price it versus how many boxes you expect to sell...
it's a tough choice...
at least they've gone all-in on the quality...
i can respect that...

cheers
jah

It's perfectly American to admit you have bad taste. And that goes double for anyone dissing on the tripods.

As for the price, look at the Bolt Action starter: 20 infantry vs. 12 infantry in an APC. Same price.
since that's all basic 25mm infantry I'd say the plastic in those sets is worth about as much.

Now look at how individual plastic kits for BA are priced: GBP 30ish for 40 infantry is no exception, and GBP 16-20 per (plastic) vehicle isn't too shabby either.

It might not be the value that GW starters bring, but at least you're not paying through the nose for the rest of the minis.

Of course I'm assuming they'll actually price GoA somewhat like BA - I agree the price point for the current GoA metal models is ridiculous.

Do the GW starters even include the rules anymore, let alone in hardback? I think those are plastic templates as well not card.

Gw starters gave plastic templates as well, and full rules but in small softcover (at least dv; AoS of course just has the few pages also available online since that's all there is).

 Eggs wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


Third and a half, GW's minis are not out of proportion, but rather heavily stylized. Complaining about them is equivalent to snarking about chibi minis for having stubby limbs and huge heads. It doesn't reflect as much on the minis as you might think.
)

Put any GW mini beside any Infinity mini and say again that GW aren't out of proportion.

Put any chibi mini next to an Infinity mini and say the chibi mini is out of proportion. Then wonder why everyone else looks at you with speculative pity, then glances at each other, perhaps rolling their eyes or twirling a finger at their temples.

My point is that modern GW minis are actually well proportioned for heroic scale minis. Deriding them for not being true scale is one thing, but being oblivious to their stylistic choices and acting like they were just sculpted all wonky-wiggins bulbous heads and elbows because they are just bad...is missing the point.


It sounds to me like Swas is talking about the metal minis and not the plastic starter minis. He might be right about how great they are, but I'll never know because there's no way I'll ever buy any of them. The plastic starter minis are really the only things that make GoA worth talking about these days.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 solkan wrote:
It's perfectly American to admit you have bad taste. And that goes double for anyone dissing on the tripods.

The tripods are the minis I am most excited for, but I am honest enough to admit that's because I have bad taste. I can love something and still find amusement with its flaws, perhaps because of those flaws.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
What's actually wrong with these? They look more natural and normal than GW designs anyway. GW has these huge bulging meat sacks covered to the extreme with useless details or covered to the extreme in really thick and chunky armour also covered in details.

It's probably worth noting that it's the style of these you do not like rather than the technical quality. I personally much prefer the more normal style of these sculpts than all of the GW models I have ever purchased.

Can you explain how these models are "GW/Citadel second stringers from the early 1990s"? Because all im seeing is a different style of models (more natural and normal compared to GW action figure style).

First of all, crab-clawed tripods are normal for you?

Second, take a look at where the Gates Guys' shoulders are and where their necks are and tell me again about normal proportions.

Third, outside of the drones and Rainbow Mantis Daleks, the Gates minis are generic, without anything that makes them stand out over Mantic Enforcers, Dreamforge Stormtroopers, or MEdge Karists that would justify the price disparity.

Third and a half, GW's minis are not out of proportion, but rather heavily stylized. Complaining about them is equivalent to snarking about chibi minis for having stubby limbs and huge heads. It doesn't reflect as much on the minis as you might think.

All of that doesn't really matter since the price is so audacious as to render a mote in the mini's eye into a beam at the till. An expensive beam. therefore, we definitely need to judge those motes, lest we be fleeced.

(I failed that course on metaphors like a brick through butter.)

Thanks, "Bob" I could not have made these points better myself. I'll leave it at this then.

Nocturnus wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
$112 for 30 plastic minis seems steep to me.

But...maybe that is just me?

Nope, not just you. I am not sure why Warlord is charging so much more for these minis. Their historical stuff is just as nice and much more reasonably priced. I have some of the Algoryn that I bought during the testing phase and while I think they're really nice, they seem a bit pricey. Being a new game, you'd hope they would come in at a decent price and get more people interested. The price tag and the fact it's only 30 minis may deter people from buying it.

Same price as their historical stuff.

Bolt Action D-Day Firefight is Bolt Action mini rulebook, Scenario booklet, 1 modular plastic ruined farmhouse, 12 plastic multi-pose 28mm German Grenadiers, 1 plastic 251/1D Hanomag half-track, 20 plastic multi-pose 28mm US Army troops
Quick reference sheet, 60 cardboard (cut out yourself) Pin Markers, 2 cardboard (cut out yourself) Rulers, 10 six-sided dice, 10 Bolt Action Orders Dice
versus
20 Plastic Concord Strike Troopers, 4 Plastic Concord Support Drones, 3 Plastic Ghar Battle Squad Walkers, 3 Plastic Ghar Assault Squad Walkers, Launch edition metal character model
Full Hard Back Rulebook, Plastic templates and shot tokens, Scenario booklet, Plastic Pin markers, 10 Order Dice, a pile of polyhedral dice

Both are $112.
(honestly content-wise Antares looks better than D-Day Firefight because of all the plastic templates and pin markers)

One of the way GW gets away with much cheaper starter sets is the sprue design: you have monopose, 1-3 piece models, with no options, occupying a smaller space. Warlord gives you the full retail sprues. The Grenadiers in D-Day firefight have a pile of rifles, assault rifles, SMGs, MG42s, Panzerfausts, head options, maps, binoculars, pistols, and even a tiny plastic Iron Cross if you want to customize your dudes ever more. And the sets are definitely cheaper than retail; for example, the Armoured Fury Bolt Action Tank War starter set contains five $32 tanks plus the mini rulebook and dice for $128 - that's 20% off retail on just the tanks alone and not counting the value of the rulebook and order dice (at least another $20 on top of that)
But GW has always had the best looking starter sets; it's hard for anyone to top them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jah-joshua wrote:
i put GW minis next to Infinity minis everyday, and then i paint the GW mini, because that is the style i prefer...
"heavily stylized" is how i like my minis best...

Different strokes... I've been painting a lot of Lord of the Rings figures lately and painted an entire Perry Miniatures DAK army and played an AWI game full of Fife & Drum and WGF minis.
And the more I'm exposed to true-scale stuff, the more I love it, and conversely, for the goofy heroic 28-32 of 40k, Maelstrom's Edge, etc, the more I despise it.
I'm all about true(ish) scale nowadays, so true(r) scale sci fi stuff strokes a pleasure center that 40k never did.

 judgedoug wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
$112 for 30 plastic minis seems steep to me.

But...maybe that is just me?

Nope, not just you. I am not sure why Warlord is charging so much more for these minis. Their historical stuff is just as nice and much more reasonably priced. I have some of the Algoryn that I bought during the testing phase and while I think they're really nice, they seem a bit pricey. Being a new game, you'd hope they would come in at a decent price and get more people interested. The price tag and the fact it's only 30 minis may deter people from buying it.

Same price as their historical stuff.

Bolt Action D-Day Firefight is Bolt Action mini rulebook, Scenario booklet, 1 modular plastic ruined farmhouse, 12 plastic multi-pose 28mm German Grenadiers, 1 plastic 251/1D Hanomag half-track, 20 plastic multi-pose 28mm US Army troops
Quick reference sheet, 60 cardboard (cut out yourself) Pin Markers, 2 cardboard (cut out yourself) Rulers, 10 six-sided dice, 10 Bolt Action Orders Dice
versus
20 Plastic Concord Strike Troopers, 4 Plastic Concord Support Drones, 3 Plastic Ghar Battle Squad Walkers, 3 Plastic Ghar Assault Squad Walkers, Launch edition metal character model
Full Hard Back Rulebook, Plastic templates and shot tokens, Scenario booklet, Plastic Pin markers, 10 Order Dice, a pile of polyhedral dice

Both are $112.
(honestly content-wise Antares looks better than D-Day Firefight because of all the plastic templates and pin markers)

One of the way GW gets away with much cheaper starter sets is the sprue design: you have monopose, 1-3 piece models, with no options, occupying a smaller space. Warlord gives you the full retail sprues. The Grenadiers in D-Day firefight have a pile of rifles, assault rifles, SMGs, MG42s, Panzerfausts, head options, maps, binoculars, pistols, and even a tiny plastic Iron Cross if you want to customize your dudes ever more. And the sets are definitely cheaper than retail; for example, the Armoured Fury Bolt Action Tank War starter set contains five $32 tanks plus the mini rulebook and dice for $128 - that's 20% off retail on just the tanks alone and not counting the value of the rulebook and order dice (at least another $20 on top of that)
But GW has always had the best looking starter sets; it's hard for anyone to top them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jah-joshua wrote:
i put GW minis next to Infinity minis everyday, and then i paint the GW mini, because that is the style i prefer...
"heavily stylized" is how i like my minis best...

Different strokes... I've been painting a lot of Lord of the Rings figures lately and painted an entire Perry Miniatures DAK army and played an AWI game full of Fife & Drum and WGF minis.
And the more I'm exposed to true-scale stuff, the more I love it, and conversely, for the goofy heroic 28-32 of 40k, Maelstrom's Edge, etc, the more I despise it.
I'm all about true(ish) scale nowadays, so true(r) scale sci fi stuff strokes a pleasure center that 40k never did.

Same price? Sorry, I should have been more clear. I was mostly referring to the metal models. They are much more expensive than the historical stuff. For example Waffen SS box- $47. That gets you 17 infantry, a crewed gun/artillery piece, 3 crew and extra heads. For Gates, a 5 man squad is $32. The Bolt Action starter also comes with the ruined building and vehicle. I like Gates and the models. I just don't think they're justified selling them for that much more than their historical minis. My opinion, of course.

 judgedoug wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
$112 for 30 plastic minis seems steep to me.

But...maybe that is just me?

Nope, not just you. I am not sure why Warlord is charging so much more for these minis. Their historical stuff is just as nice and much more reasonably priced. I have some of the Algoryn that I bought during the testing phase and while I think they're really nice, they seem a bit pricey. Being a new game, you'd hope they would come in at a decent price and get more people interested. The price tag and the fact it's only 30 minis may deter people from buying it.

Same price as their historical stuff.

For me, the price means I won't be buying any of GoA or their WWII stuff. I basically value the rulebook, random tokens, cardboard, etc. at about $5-10, which is what I might pay for them to read the fluff. I think the concord guys could look OK with a different paint-job, and I don't mind the tripod guys, but for the money I get bucket loads more sculpts that I like much more in the same 'heroic' type style from Maelstrom's edge.

Again, tastes will vary and I can respect that, but for people who are into heroic scale stuff, I think GoA will have a hard time making the sell.

The Crab walkers look okay, but three of them is a pretty small number. As for the humans, I think they're better than the MEdge humans with square shoulderpads, but inferior to the other ME guys (with the masks and rounded armour).