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 Bobby Hostile wrote:
The Concord and Isorians play pretty much like a modern force. Advancing/Firing while support units put pins on units from far away and pick up models fairly regularly.

Except the Isorians have that amazing phase armor. For those not in the know, if an Isorian unit is shot at it can change it's order dice to Down. Which, in GoA, means, the enemy has to reroll successes to-hit. And then their high stats means there's a really good chance they can remove the Down at the end of the turn.

You have to test to remove down in GoA? That's a big difference from Bolt Action. I'm excited to read the rules - won a rulebook at an event on the weekend (but it was held up at customs ).

How do the Algoryn compare to the others?

 Nocturnus wrote:
How do the Algoryn compare to the others?

Algoryn are lower tech but are physically more rugged. They use nanotechnology/etc but specifically do not want be be a part of either the Concord or Isorian IMTel. They are a minor power (Concord, Isorian, and Vorl, being the superpowers). My army is on order so I can post more detailed playstyles when it arrives Wednesday-ish and I get some games in on Saturday. They definitely look slightly under-dog-y but have some neat tricks (Active Camo on their Infiltrators, D-Spinners, etc)

 judgedoug wrote:

 Bobby Hostile wrote:
The Concord and Isorians play pretty much like a modern force. Advancing/Firing while support units put pins on units from far away and pick up models fairly regularly.

Except the Isorians have that amazing phase armor. For those not in the know, if an Isorian unit is shot at it can change it's order dice to Down. Which, in GoA, means, the enemy has to reroll successes to-hit. And then their high stats means there's a really good chance they can remove the Down at the end of the turn.

Harlequins!

Harlequin spiders!

(Seriously, read the background..! )

paraphrasing Manchu here -
People have a real need to pigeonhole anything that comes their way into categories with which they are already familiar; hence people trying to understand the Antares setting by referencing 40k. Which, of course, considering how vastly different the background, societies, technology, etc, are is totally useless, and actually, counterproductive. It creates a false equivalency which then becomes hard to shake.

True but there is also quite some interest in proxying with 40k minis and using the GoA rules for a change. Of course the races do not match fluffwise but Tau for example can be used as Concords. Formerly licensed Judge Dredd Citadel minis being used as Arbites in Rogue Trader and the like. Not a bad thing. In case of the minis I will use some vice versa. The Freeborns will make nice Necromunda gang members too.

You can proxy Concord with Orks. Or quarters or bottle caps for that matter. As long as the base is similar, the look of the model shouldn't matter, much less the model's fluff from a different setting/IP.

 judgedoug wrote:
It creates a false equivalency which then becomes hard to shake.

Ah, false equivalence. I love that term. So endlessly useful for stopping relativism from devolving into nihilistic, idiotic inertia. Damn it, Judge Doug. You and I were supposed to be implacable enemies with irreconcilable aesthetic and gaming preferences. Stop being so likable.

Oh, wait. I'm supposed to say stuff relevant to Gates of Antares here. Fortunately, I just received my Xilos Horizon box, and can offer some quick first impressions. I'm quite interested in modding figures with bits from other lines, so most of my commentary reflects that. I do want to put up a lot of pictures, which will make the case better than words, but that will need to wait until next week at the earliest. Too busy at the moment. So in the meanwhile, some unvarnished, honest, knee-jerk thoughts on Xilos:

The hardcover is indeed handsome. Having been mostly involved in Mantic games until recently, I am hoping it will remain relevant for awhile, as I'd hate to have to shelve this beauty in a year or less for a paperback with updated / fixed rules.

Concord heads are tiny, tiny, tiny - as I thought, smaller even than Enforcer heads - and their arms are stubby, stubby, stubby short. I think you could swap Dreamforge arms onto Concord troopers, but forget about putting Concord arms on Dreamforge troopers unless proportional awkwardness doesn't bother you. Enforcer bodies / arms / legs aren't really compatible at all with the Concord troopers, but the Enforcer heads, if you trim the round base, would look great on Concord bodies. (But Concord heads look too small on Enforcer bodies.) I think if you're looking for a good fit for putting Concord arms on a Mantic figure then you're probably looking at Zees. Mantic restic Corp trooper heads look great on Concord trooper bodies too. Sedition Wars troopers are indeed pretty much a perfect fit for Concord body part swaps or to bolster Concord forces.

Concord legs look a bit odd in that the upper leg seems to be pretty much the same thickness as the lower leg, which is usually thinner in real life. Also, Concord troopers have no junk in the trunk - their butts are flat as pancakes. Put a Concord pair of legs next to a Dreamforge one and the Dreamforge Eisenkern butt (yep, even the male ones) start looking a bit like they came from a swimsuit calendar. Who cares? I don't really, I just find it funny. However, swapping Dreamforge Eisenkern legs with Concord legs, in either direction, doesn't work well and would take quite a bit of green stuff or other finagling to pull off. The Concord legs / waists are too much thinner than Dreamforge's to be cross compatible.

So I hate the Concord figures? Not at all. They look good unto themselves, they're just smaller than most sci-fi troopers from other lines, so not as compatible for swapping / modding purposes as I might have liked. Built as intended from the parts you get in the box, they're fine.

I have nothing interesting to say about the Ghar battlesuits yet, as they're all still on sprue, and they are hands-down my favorite sculpts from the entire GoA line so far. Models I really like are a little boring, as I tend to build them exactly as intended. Models I don't like or like but find flawed are the ones that get my creative juices flowing. It becomes a personal challenge to see if I can make a silk purse from a sow's ear by monkeying around with said ugly model. The Ghar battlesuits are probably too good as-is to force me to do anything particularly interesting with them. (But once I do get some clipped out, I will be interested in seeing what can be done for alternate arm weapons, at least.) I'm still undecided as to what I'll be using to proxy for the little Ghar guys, whose comedic aspect I don't want any part of. I'd prefer something nightmarish, possibly biomechanical, probably slimy. If anyone can be bothered - and I don't blame you if you can't, because really, why should you care? - suggestions are most welcome.

The blue plastic templates and red pin markers with dials are really nice touches.

NWS sent my box a bit late, so they generously included a blister of the metal Algoryn A.I. unit. So here are some thoughts on that:

The turret is a nice design and well-cast. The floating probe is nice, but not my favorite design - I prefer the Concord plastic units and the photos of the metal Ghar flitters appeal more to me. My biggest criticism of the Algoryn metal figures, confirmed by having them in hand, is posing. These could be a lot less stiff (yes, even with their armor) and more naturalistically / dynamically posed. There's a stiffness across the Algoryn range that looks stilted to me - it reminds me of Eddie Murphy imitating the way White Men walk, "keeping their butts tight." (Dreamforge butts, on the other hand, recall Dana Carvey imitating George Michael. "Look at my butt! The worst thing you can do is try to ignore it! It's a total circle, don't you see? You can't hide from it. It's a force to be reckoned with. Accept it before it destroys you!") I really hope they can improve on this - posing, not butts - with their Algoryn plastic figure set when it debuts. Thus far I'd say whoever is doing GoA's computer sculpting is fine with concept design, but they need a lot more practice with posing 3-D models well. This is one reason I currently favor the hand-sculpted Boromites of GoA, which don't suffer from the CGI stiffness of the Concord or Algoryn lines.

(This issue with some computer sculptors not having the same sense of bodily dynamism as talented traditional sculptors is far from unique to GoA, so I don't mean to say they have an unusual issue with this relative to other companies. On the other hand, Malifaux in particular demonstrates that there are also computer sculptors who can produce astoundingly fluid, naturalistic sculpts. It is most likely an issue of talent and experience rather than sculpting method.)

Metal Algoryn bodies are proportionally very much in line with Mantic Enforcer bodies. I look forward to the conversion possibilities the Algoryn plastic kit will offer.

Algoryn helmeted heads, as I thought from seeing pics online, are really the best thing about them. Very cool visor design, with a Cylonesque vibe of classic sci-fi meanness to them. They even look great on plastic Concord bodies, although doing that swap would be problematic if you're trying to keep things somewhat in line with the Antares fluff. But I do love these heads. I'll probably end up using the two I got from the A.I. blister on other figures from other lines.

Thanks for the review, Vermonter. I'm really looking forward to getting a GoA box...someday. Do the Concord come with any spare helmeted heads? Since they size well with Sedition Wars, I hope they can help properly equip my Samaritans. (If you have any spare enforcer heads, I'd love it if you sent them my way.)

So your friends on the chat boards, playing games with the Concords? But the Concords ain't got motors in the backs of their Fords.

Anyway, for the unsuited Ghar, there are a lot of little creepy monsters in the Reaper Bones catalogue, like brain eaters or charnel grubs, or shoggoths. The Medge minnows, placed on the ground like floppy monsters, might do. Or you could use the squid heads from WGF shock trooper boxes and make little not-Daleks? How humanoid do you want them to be?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Thanks for the review, Vermonter. I'm really looking forward to getting a GoA box...someday. Do the Concord come with any spare helmeted heads? Since they size well with Sedition Wars, I hope they can help properly equip my Samaritans. (If you have any spare enforcer heads, I'd love it if you sent them my way.)

So your friends on the chat boards, playing games with the Concords? But the Concords ain't got motors in the backs of their Fords.

Anyway, for the unsuited Ghar, there are a lot of little creepy monsters in the Reaper Bones catalogue, like brain eaters or charnel grubs, or shoggoths. The Medge minnows, placed on the ground like floppy monsters, might do. Or you could use the squid heads from WGF shock trooper boxes and make little not-Daleks? How humanoid do you want them to be?

I definitely have spare Mantic enforcer heads (both hard plastic and restic varieties), but you probably meant to say helmeted Concord heads, right? Yes, I could spare a few helmeted Concord heads, as I'll want some of my Concord troopers unmasked for variety. You get 5 Concord troopers and 6 heads per sprue, 5 helmeted, one with an open visor, so they don't give you a lot of spares or variants, unfortunately. On the subject of Mantic Enforcer heads, I was a little surprised by how good they can look on Concord bodies. I think it was Thraxas who posted a picture of a Concord trooper with an Enforcer head which looked like an awkward fit to me. Probably just the angle, or due to not trimming the Enforcer head's neck bulb first. (No offense to our good Thraxas, of course. Photos are photos - nothing beats having the figures in front of you.)

I'll double-check on how well the Concord heads fit with Sedition Wars troopers later today (I was mostly looking at arm swaps before, since Sed Wars Samaritans come with heads attached. Easy to remove with a knife, but I was lazy.) I do like the Concord helmet design. Just be aware that in most cases, Concord heads are going to look smaller than what you're swapping them for. I mean, they even beat Mantic Enforcer heads on smallitude.

As for what I'm looking for for Ghar substitutes, the less humanoid the better for me. I'm interested in taking them back in a repulsive Dalek creature direction. I'll check out those Bones figures you mentioned.

Time to start making some Antares terrain. I love how specific the book is about what you need, and what terrain is.

I have to say that I really like my Concord minis. While they are smaller than most other 28mm, they're pretty well proportioned and don't have stupidly huge features such as guns, hands or shoulder pads. I'm not a huge fan of the Plasma Carbine's design and was looking to do a conversion until I realized that the off-hand was molded onto the gun. Too much effort for me to try and carve out or resculpt. The Ghar are pretty cool looking and aren't a rehash of some overdone trope. They're not mindless, just stagnant in tech which is so much lower than other races that the can't be affected by counter-measures. It'd be like dropping an EMP on WWII era troops.

The Algoryn were a close second to my choice of Concord. Mostly because the mini's are hella-sweet. They angular design of the armor appeals to me and they have some cool units to field. The Boromites are the only ones who don't really appeal to me but that's just a taste thing based on aesthetics. They play pretty well.


I've played 2 games so far, both against the Ghar. One of the best features of the game is the pin mechanic. Unlike BA (I believe) you can rally to get Pins off of you. I mainly play WM/Hordes and the occasional game Dropzone Commander or 40K. The initiative mechanic makes BtGoA so awesome for me. Both players stay engaged and your tactics HAVE to be flexible because you can't count on getting the next activation or three. So far I haven't really found anything about the game that I outright dislike, though I'm still in the honeymoon phase.

Here's oneof my C3 Strike troopers with a not-"ODST" head from Puppetswar. I use Puppetswar merc heads for unit leaders and command as well for character.

That head seems way too big.

Manchu wrote:
That head seems way too big.

Have you ever seen a motorcycle helmet on a person? This is was smaller propotionally than that... And consider the HUDs, rebreather etc etc that is crammed into the helmet, this is a bit more "realistic" size. At least to my eyes!

Yeah I have worn full-face motorcycle helmets, I know they are huge. Some things looks ridiculous IRL and they look equally ridiculous when imported into fiction; meanwhile, what looks cool in fiction could look foolish IRL (e.g., your own avatar depicts a futuristic soldier wearing a beret over a helmet). I would guess that the models as depicted in official artwork and sculpts constitute what is "realistic" relative to the setting in question. That said, your toys/your rules.

Manchu wrote:
Yeah I have worn full-face motorcycle helmets, I know they are huge. Some things looks ridiculous IRL and they look equally ridiculous when imported into fiction; meanwhile, what looks cool in fiction could look foolish IRL (e.g., your own avatar depicts a futuristic soldier wearing a beret over a helmet). I would guess that the models as depicted in official artwork and sculpts constitute what is "realistic" relative to the setting in question. That said, your toys/your rules.

True!

Manchu wrote:
Yeah I have worn full-face motorcycle helmets, I know they are huge. Some things looks ridiculous IRL and they look equally ridiculous when imported into fiction; meanwhile, what looks cool in fiction could look foolish IRL (e.g., your own avatar depicts a futuristic soldier wearing a beret over a helmet). I would guess that the models as depicted in official artwork and sculpts constitute what is "realistic" relative to the setting in question. That said, your toys/your rules.

I've always considered it as part of the price when it comes to sculpting at the miniature size; naturalistic proportions generally don't translate well. If anything, the parts that are exaggerated for scale winds up causing the aesthetic style.

As far as the helmets, I can't see any size being unrealistic for the setting. Giant motorcycle sized helmet filled with electronics? Sure, makes sense. Slim head fitting piece? Nanotech!

The "Nanotech!" explanation seems definitively correct.

Manchu wrote:
The "Nanotech!" explanation seems definitively correct.

Considering it's like grey-goo nanotech and machines do not have any moving parts anymore, there's zero reason for giant motorcycle helmets crammed with junk.
Definitely a fan of the Iron Man style thin helmet that the Concord dudes already have versus slapping on a motorcycle helmet.

Manchu wrote:
The "Nanotech!" explanation seems definitively correct.

I think that'll be the answer for just about any inconsistency in the game.

AngryMojo wrote:

Manchu wrote:
The "Nanotech!" explanation seems definitively correct.

I think that'll be the answer for just about any inconsistency in the game.

The Fluff Equivalent of "d6 for it!"?

I really like a lot of what we've seen/heard/read about it terms of the rules, I just wish the miniatures were more appealing to me...

 Alpharius wrote:
I really like a lot of what we've seen/heard/read about it terms of the rules, I just wish the miniatures were more appealing to me...

I'll agree they feel a bit generic, and they're not nearly the GW level of detail in the gubbins. As an actual game, though, it's pretty ace.

 Alpharius wrote:
I just wish the miniatures were more appealing to me...

I am still struggling with this. The strength of the fluff helps.

 judgedoug wrote:
paraphrasing Manchu here -
People have a real need to pigeonhole anything that comes their way into categories with which they are already familiar; hence people trying to understand the Antares setting by referencing 40k. Which, of course, considering how vastly different the background, societies, technology, etc, are is totally useless, and actually, counterproductive. It creates a false equivalency which then becomes hard to shake.

Or to put it another way - I don't give two feths about the GoA background and dislike the models, so I am looking for a nice ruleset that I can use my existing model collection with. Just like with KoW and "Mantica" or DZ/WP and whatever Mantic call their "Space Mantica".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:
You can proxy Concord with Orks. Or quarters or bottle caps for that matter. As long as the base is similar, the look of the model shouldn't matter, much less the model's fluff from a different setting/IP.

I don't care in the slightest about GoA's fluff. I'm looking for statlines/unit proxies that work well enough without expecting a pure, perfect 1-1 translation.

Antares factions are not even rough analogs of 40k factions (to clarify, I mean in terms of rules design). Antares is a good rule set but that does not mean it will be good for all purposes, such as playing orks versus space marines.

Yeah, there is no "direct correlation", at all, between any of the factions of GoA and 40k.

However, if you strip away all the background and all the names and all the reasoning why weapons and armor work the way they do, then, you can certainly reskin them with whatever you want.

Even then, there's nothing even remotely resembling a Boltgun in terms of functionality. You would need to simultaneously strip away all the background and design intent of all of 40k as well.

But if you just wanted to use whatever models paired to whatever stats, well, at it's core, GoA is a superb ruleset.

Yep, if you look at your 40k models as equivalent to quarters or bottlecaps, you should have no trouble.