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Made in ca
Master Sergeant





Arbiter_Shade wrote:
MasterOfGaunts wrote:
Arbiter_Shade wrote:
 Ailaros wrote:
Blacksails wrote:The quality of a codex is not measured solely by how well it stands up next to the current power codex.

Exactly. You shouldn't be comparing new nids against tau, you should be comparing them against DA, SM, and CSM, which were done correctly (well, not fluffwise, but that's another matter). It's better that they make the game reasonably balanced and just fix the one or two codices that are overpowered, rather than forcing real codex creep where there wasn't before.




Okay...well the Tyranid codex is poor when compared to DA, SM, and CSM so what are you trying to say? The Tyranid codex is horribly balanced against itself, it has a slew of draw backs that aren't counter balanced by any kind of positive the two major ones being IB and Tervigons but the codex is full of similar points of data, it is boring and even more monolist than the last codex. The 5th codex wasn't received well and this new one didn't exactly shake things up so why on earth are people still harping on about waiting and seeing?


Well I have fun with the new codex but I agree on the internal balance problems. Its hard do build an effective list without some sort of spamming. But I have to live with that for the next 3 years. So why on earth are people still crying about the new nid-dex? As we all know, GW dont care about its customers so make the best out of it or play another army or game until the next codex release.


I don't really see many people whinning about it. Now if you think voicing complaints is whinning then there is nothing I can do to help you. People complain when something they do not like is forced upon them. I love Tyranids, I like 40k, I want to keep playing the game and I expect as a customer to be offered a quality product. GW delivered a hack job rush of a codex that seems to be made just to spite Chapter House and little else, so why on earth am I not allowed to be disappointed?


Exactly. A lot of us think 40k has a lot of potential, like tyranids and would like to play the game but GW undermines this. I have no desire to buy any more GW product. Now if the nid dex had been given a serious effort to fix it and add some variety/flavour so that it was around the level of the SM dex (not the level of OP Tau/Eldar) I would be fine and I would have bought many more models - for my other armies as well. But it isn't so I wont be buying any more GW product unless they correct this poorly done, bland, product full of missed and obvious opportunities. After the garbage of the 5th ed dex it is inexcusable to have another pile of garbage. I am not the only one that feels this way. Surely GW wants to sell kits. If they read these threads and the many others on the various forums, and from poor sales, they must have an idea that they are to blame and it is up to them to step up and redo the dex. Think what effect that would have on the community - GW taking responsibility for a bad product - people would flock back to GW games.
   
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Steubenville, Ohio

Naw wrote:
What lesson is there to learn? To make a third OP codex after Tau and Eldar?


This guy gets it. Its a solid codex actually. Its not as easy or obvious as Elder or Tau. If those two Codex's didn't exist. It wouldn't be an issue. I play Elder and I'll be the first to point out the real issue. 2 Codex's rule and a combo of them is that much better.
I don't get the GW hate I really don't. I view it the same way I view a cheating GF. If she is so awful you'll leave her no matter the cost. If you don't however you don't get to complain about her.

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Arbiter_Shade wrote:
MasterOfGaunts wrote:
Arbiter_Shade wrote:
 Ailaros wrote:
Blacksails wrote:The quality of a codex is not measured solely by how well it stands up next to the current power codex.

Exactly. You shouldn't be comparing new nids against tau, you should be comparing them against DA, SM, and CSM, which were done correctly (well, not fluffwise, but that's another matter). It's better that they make the game reasonably balanced and just fix the one or two codices that are overpowered, rather than forcing real codex creep where there wasn't before.




Okay...well the Tyranid codex is poor when compared to DA, SM, and CSM so what are you trying to say? The Tyranid codex is horribly balanced against itself, it has a slew of draw backs that aren't counter balanced by any kind of positive the two major ones being IB and Tervigons but the codex is full of similar points of data, it is boring and even more monolist than the last codex. The 5th codex wasn't received well and this new one didn't exactly shake things up so why on earth are people still harping on about waiting and seeing?


Well I have fun with the new codex but I agree on the internal balance problems. Its hard do build an effective list without some sort of spamming. But I have to live with that for the next 3 years. So why on earth are people still crying about the new nid-dex? As we all know, GW dont care about its customers so make the best out of it or play another army or game until the next codex release.


I don't really see many people whinning about it. Now if you think voicing complaints is whinning then there is nothing I can do to help you. People complain when something they do not like is forced upon them. I love Tyranids, I like 40k, I want to keep playing the game and I expect as a customer to be offered a quality product. GW delivered a hack job rush of a codex that seems to be made just to spite Chapter House and little else, so why on earth am I not allowed to be disappointed?


Dont misunderstand me. Its totally okay for me that people are disappointed and talk about it, but there are no new arguments coming up. At the moment it feels like every new nid thread comes to the point where people are talking about how bad the new dex is and GW is ruining 40k and thats kind of boring. Most people arguing against it also pretend EVERYBODY on the whole planet agrees with them. So i picked the "why on earth" part out of the quoted post and made my own sentence with it. It wasnt ment as "shut up and suck it down". If it felt this way, I am sorry.


Yes, I totally agree with you, the new nid-dex has several weaknesses, internal balance isnt really worth talking about and all in all its a recycled 5th Edition dex with some point decreases, new MCs and nervs. But you can still build lists that work against most other lists and i have fun with it. For me its more importent, that the tau and eldar codices get a workover to be at the same level as the other ones. I really hope for that, but I dont think its going to happend like i dont think that nids get a rerolled codex in the next 2 years.

How often has GW corrected their faults? I am still waiting for the FAQ that fixes helldrakes, jaws of the world wolf, 2+ rerollable invulnerable saves, spammable dedicated transports with extreme firepower, also known as waveserpent and all the other broken pieces of 40k.




   
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If you ask me, the Nid codex shows that GW learned its lessons from Daemons, Tau and Eldar.

Much better external balance. Perhaps internal balance could be straightened out though.

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Earth

sadly compared to some of the stuff in codexs now, the 3.5 chaos is like a drop in the pond.. some.. not all
   
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 Blacksails wrote:
Naw wrote:
Show me a balanced codex.

I would gladly trade my Eldar for Tyranids. At least they are enjoyable and require thought.


Then...trade your army?


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Adelaide, South Australia

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
If you ask me, the Nid codex shows that GW learned its lessons from Daemons, Tau and Eldar.

Much better external balance. Perhaps internal balance could be straightened out though.


To me the Nid codex showed that they didn't learn their lession from Necrons. Phase Out was not fun, it did not forge a good narrative, and the same goes for Instinctive Behaviour.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/08 07:55:30


 Ailaros wrote:
You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.

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Halifornia, Nova Scotia

Naw wrote:
 Blacksails wrote:
Naw wrote:
Show me a balanced codex.

I would gladly trade my Eldar for Tyranids. At least they are enjoyable and require thought.


Then...trade your army?



Want pictures?


I'm trying to sell my Guard army, not interested in Nids.

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Eye of Terror

Most of the people who were playing Nids in 6th edition prior to the new codex are upset about the loss of Biomancy. IB was not issue due to Tervigon spam and now the Tervigon has been nerfed. I think the new codex is quite good - you have to be willing to try new things.

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 lobbywatson wrote:
Naw wrote:
What lesson is there to learn? To make a third OP codex after Tau and Eldar?


This guy gets it. Its a solid codex actually. Its not as easy or obvious as Elder or Tau. If those two Codex's didn't exist. It wouldn't be an issue. I play Elder and I'll be the first to point out the real issue. 2 Codex's rule and a combo of them is that much better.
I don't get the GW hate I really don't. I view it the same way I view a cheating GF. If she is so awful you'll leave her no matter the cost. If you don't however you don't get to complain about her.


It's more of battered wife syndrome. You feel abused and unappreciated, GW spits in our faces, but we love them so much we can't leave.

I believe the issue is a lot of people have supported GW and made them to where they are now. GW actions show no support to the people who have supported them and made them where they are today. Then the blatant disrespect to the community, that people who make GW fan sites are told they can't use their pics, The Cease and Desist letters GW sends to everyone and making it so hard for FLGS to sell their products seems like s spit in the face to fans who supported GW when they were basically nothing.

Reminds me of Sony and Microsoft. Thankyou Gamespot for selling our games, but now we don't want you sell our games so we can make more money and who cares if you go out of business. Thankyou for making us for what we are today, but no go take a hike and stop taking money away from us now. It seems Sony and Micorsoft has eased it's stance on Gamespot and EB Games selling their product for now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/08 18:15:37


Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

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Vallejo, CA

Davor wrote:It's more of battered wife syndrome. You feel abused and unappreciated, GW spits in our faces, but we love them so much we can't leave.

Wow.

You know, you might as well go all the way here. People who like GW are like people who voted for the Nazi party in 1936. They enabled a system that brought misery to uncounted multitudes.


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 Dozer Blades wrote:
Most of the people who were playing Nids in 6th edition prior to the new codex are upset about the loss of Biomancy. IB was not issue due to Tervigon spam and now the Tervigon has been nerfed. I think the new codex is quite good - you have to be willing to try new things.


See this logic just mystifies me...

First, not to many people are upset about the loss of Biomancy. It sucked but most every nid player shrugged and moved on, for the hundredth time it is not about the power level of the codex it is about the poor rules, poor units, and copy and paste that people are most upset about. In 5th the synapse creatures were powerful and worth taking, THAT is why synapse wasn't as much of a concern before. Now synapse is like a tax because most synapse units aren't worth taking if it weren't for the fact that synapse is needed in redundancy in your list.

I've tried every unit in both the 5th codex and the 6th codex, it's not like I just write off the bad units immediately even though it would have been easy enough to do. Pyrovores are bad, there is no roll they excell at, they have minorly decent anti-infantry capability in an army that has more than enough anti-infanrty. Mawlocs effectively got a reroll to wound on their blast template and they weren't exactly shaking up the meta for nids in 5th so why people think they are so much better now is beyond me.

The power level of the codex is low to mid tier, it can do just fine when playing a game with friends and having a laugh. Fine, that is cool and I love playing my nids and this is my preferred environment. I do have a problem with the fact that I am not going to be winning tournaments with Tyranids, I have a problem that I am looking at a codex filled with pointless abilities and units, where most of my list have auto-includes in three of the six FOC slots. It is boring and repetitive, it is stagnant, the 6th codex didn't shake anything up other than to remove the viability of running multiple Tervigons.
   
Made in de
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Arbiter_Shade wrote:

Mawlocs effectively got a reroll to wound on their blast template and they weren't exactly shaking up the meta for nids in 5th so why people think they are so much better now is beyond me.


Its 30 points cheaper, a 6hp MC (for 140points), double template on arrival and you can get it where ever you want, using a lictor. Well I think its really nice...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/02/08 19:26:55


 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




You should try to do something different. Losing synapse sucks, yes, but get over it. Try to minimize its effect.

We play an objective game, yet a tyranid player thinks they must place an objective in their DZ. Why?? To have a scoring troop sit there, another to provide synapse and at the same time stretch your army thin? No no no. Don't play the objectives, play to decimate the opponent.

If something no longer works, stop doing it!
   
Made in de
Masculine Male Wych






Naw wrote:

We play an objective game, yet a tyranid player thinks they must place an objective in their DZ. Why?? To have a scoring troop sit there, another to provide synapse and at the same time stretch your army thin? No no no. Don't play the objectives, play to decimate the opponent.


Thats a good point. Due to the fact, that I am paying a pure CC army, i normally place my objectives near to the enemy and try to rush him over with hard hitting MSU. Works fine at the Moment. Nids might have some nice Dakka-units, but I like it Close and personal abd thats where they excel.
   
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Eye of Terror

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
 Dozer Blades wrote:
Most of the people who were playing Nids in 6th edition prior to the new codex are upset about the loss of Biomancy. IB was not issue due to Tervigon spam and now the Tervigon has been nerfed. I think the new codex is quite good - you have to be willing to try new things.


See this logic just mystifies me...

First, not to many people are upset about the loss of Biomancy. It sucked but most every nid player shrugged and moved on, for the hundredth time it is not about the power level of the codex it is about the poor rules, poor units, and copy and paste that people are most upset about. In 5th the synapse creatures were powerful and worth taking, THAT is why synapse wasn't as much of a concern before. Now synapse is like a tax because most synapse units aren't worth taking if it weren't for the fact that synapse is needed in redundancy in your list.

I've tried every unit in both the 5th codex and the 6th codex, it's not like I just write off the bad units immediately even though it would have been easy enough to do. Pyrovores are bad, there is no roll they excell at, they have minorly decent anti-infantry capability in an army that has more than enough anti-infanrty. Mawlocs effectively got a reroll to wound on their blast template and they weren't exactly shaking up the meta for nids in 5th so why people think they are so much better now is beyond me.

The power level of the codex is low to mid tier, it can do just fine when playing a game with friends and having a laugh. Fine, that is cool and I love playing my nids and this is my preferred environment. I do have a problem with the fact that I am not going to be winning tournaments with Tyranids, I have a problem that I am looking at a codex filled with pointless abilities and units, where most of my list have auto-includes in three of the six FOC slots. It is boring and repetitive, it is stagnant, the 6th codex didn't shake anything up other than to remove the viability of running multiple Tervigons.


I feel the exact opposite. I think there are a lot of really good units to choose from and think this is much better than the last codex.

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 Dozer Blades wrote:
Arbiter_Shade wrote:
 Dozer Blades wrote:
Most of the people who were playing Nids in 6th edition prior to the new codex are upset about the loss of Biomancy. IB was not issue due to Tervigon spam and now the Tervigon has been nerfed. I think the new codex is quite good - you have to be willing to try new things.


See this logic just mystifies me...

First, not to many people are upset about the loss of Biomancy. It sucked but most every nid player shrugged and moved on, for the hundredth time it is not about the power level of the codex it is about the poor rules, poor units, and copy and paste that people are most upset about. In 5th the synapse creatures were powerful and worth taking, THAT is why synapse wasn't as much of a concern before. Now synapse is like a tax because most synapse units aren't worth taking if it weren't for the fact that synapse is needed in redundancy in your list.

I've tried every unit in both the 5th codex and the 6th codex, it's not like I just write off the bad units immediately even though it would have been easy enough to do. Pyrovores are bad, there is no roll they excell at, they have minorly decent anti-infantry capability in an army that has more than enough anti-infanrty. Mawlocs effectively got a reroll to wound on their blast template and they weren't exactly shaking up the meta for nids in 5th so why people think they are so much better now is beyond me.

The power level of the codex is low to mid tier, it can do just fine when playing a game with friends and having a laugh. Fine, that is cool and I love playing my nids and this is my preferred environment. I do have a problem with the fact that I am not going to be winning tournaments with Tyranids, I have a problem that I am looking at a codex filled with pointless abilities and units, where most of my list have auto-includes in three of the six FOC slots. It is boring and repetitive, it is stagnant, the 6th codex didn't shake anything up other than to remove the viability of running multiple Tervigons.


I feel the exact opposite. I think there are a lot of really good units to choose from and think this is much better than the last codex.


I think you both are right. The Tyranid codex has bad units only when compared to the other "better done" codices like the Tau or the Necron. But in their codex, Tyranid units are quite awesome when compared to other Tyranid units. Like, Jeanstealers are pretty cool when compared to Hormagaunts as they hit hard but Hormagaunts are also pretty cool when compared to Jeanstealres because they have the numbers. The codex has very good selections in a contained environment where only Tyranids exist, but it crumbles as soon as the "others" show up, especially armies with a lot more thought.

it is pretty much Chaos Space Marines Reloaded minus the Baledrake+Nurgle combo.

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Honestly, when the new DA and CSM books came out, I was really hoping to just see a general power decrease in 40k across the board. Instead, we got the opposite - Tau and Eldar require some talent, but they're the closest thing 40k has ever had to a win button. If you completely ignore Tau, Eldar and Daemons, burn Stronghold Assault/Escalation, limit flyers and pretend that rolling for psychic powers is actually just a choice from a list, the game plays a lot better. Unfortunately, it's also far less varied and assault is still not really a worthwhile tactic. It's a weird state of game to be sure. I honestly don't enjoy it either, a lot of my enjoyment comes from envisioning battle and I just can't do it with half the garbage that's come out. I miss the days where my biggest gripes were the games took too long to play back in 2e. At least that was fun, unlike the current "pretend that the horrible imbalance doesn't exist, pretend the background material even slightly resembles in game when it doesn't and never even bother trying to win because it may as well be a coin flip in 6e" which we have currently.

GW will never learn from dissatisfaction because they're convinced that it's not the majority of their target audience and that it's unjustified. The idea of expanding their market and not being hated seem to be completely vacant from the minds of their higher up staff. I don't know a single person who dislikes the IP, to the extent I know people who only don't play due to entry cost and gakky rules. The fact that a company can take that blind loyalty and still lose sales in any period of time is quite remarkable indeed. Whilst the thought that balance is pointless and randomness is fun prevails, 40k will never be the game it should and could be. So no, they'll have learnt nothing, because we had this issue last nid dex and the chaos dex before that and they didn't learn from those either. This is the game they appear to want, even when no-one else does. In their minds, their is nothing to learn.
   
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Eye of Terror

 AtoMaki wrote:
 Dozer Blades wrote:
Arbiter_Shade wrote:
 Dozer Blades wrote:
Most of the people who were playing Nids in 6th edition prior to the new codex are upset about the loss of Biomancy. IB was not issue due to Tervigon spam and now the Tervigon has been nerfed. I think the new codex is quite good - you have to be willing to try new things.


See this logic just mystifies me...

First, not to many people are upset about the loss of Biomancy. It sucked but most every nid player shrugged and moved on, for the hundredth time it is not about the power level of the codex it is about the poor rules, poor units, and copy and paste that people are most upset about. In 5th the synapse creatures were powerful and worth taking, THAT is why synapse wasn't as much of a concern before. Now synapse is like a tax because most synapse units aren't worth taking if it weren't for the fact that synapse is needed in redundancy in your list.

I've tried every unit in both the 5th codex and the 6th codex, it's not like I just write off the bad units immediately even though it would have been easy enough to do. Pyrovores are bad, there is no roll they excell at, they have minorly decent anti-infantry capability in an army that has more than enough anti-infanrty. Mawlocs effectively got a reroll to wound on their blast template and they weren't exactly shaking up the meta for nids in 5th so why people think they are so much better now is beyond me.

The power level of the codex is low to mid tier, it can do just fine when playing a game with friends and having a laugh. Fine, that is cool and I love playing my nids and this is my preferred environment. I do have a problem with the fact that I am not going to be winning tournaments with Tyranids, I have a problem that I am looking at a codex filled with pointless abilities and units, where most of my list have auto-includes in three of the six FOC slots. It is boring and repetitive, it is stagnant, the 6th codex didn't shake anything up other than to remove the viability of running multiple Tervigons.


I feel the exact opposite. I think there are a lot of really good units to choose from and think this is much better than the last codex.


I think you both are right. The Tyranid codex has bad units only when compared to the other "better done" codices like the Tau or the Necron. But in their codex, Tyranid units are quite awesome when compared to other Tyranid units. Like, Jeanstealers are pretty cool when compared to Hormagaunts as they hit hard but Hormagaunts are also pretty cool when compared to Jeanstealres because they have the numbers. The codex has very good selections in a contained environment where only Tyranids exist, but it crumbles as soon as the "others" show up, especially armies with a lot more thought.

it is pretty much Chaos Space Marines Reloaded minus the Baledrake+Nurgle combo.


The Crone functions a lot like the Drake and has the S8 vector strike plus it's less points. Tyranids are a synergistic army... You cannot count on a couple units winning the game for you. Your comparisons are silly btw.


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 Dozer Blades wrote:

The Crone functions a lot like the Drake and has the S8 vector strike plus it's less points. Tyranids are a synergistic army... You cannot count on a couple units winning the game for you. Your comparisons are silly btw.



Not really though, if we're being honest. The flamer is weaker and lacks the all important torrent+AP3, it's waaaay less survivable (AV12 is roughly T8, so Heldrakes are basically ungroundable T8 W4 5++ units compared to T5 W5 4+ of the Harpy - the difference between being wounded on 2+ no save with a quadgun and being "wounded" on a 5+ with a 5++) and the Drake competes with no other valuable units unlike the Crone. Even ignoring the instinctive behaviour problems and grounding tests, the Heldrake is still vastly better for only 20 more points. As a result, they function nothing alike - the Darke kills MEQ blobs, the Crone tries to kill multiwound T4 models. Nids are no more synergistic than any other army - they're just hampered by a restriction no-one else needs.
   
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 Dozer Blades wrote:

The Crone functions a lot like the Drake and has the S8 vector strike plus it's less points.


Yeeeeeeaaaaahhh... The AP4 no-Torrent flamer on a T5 Sv4+ platform is totally like the AP3 Torrent flamer on an AV12 Sv5++ IWND plaform. The Crone wants to be a Baledrake but it isn't. And that 15 points won't redeem that.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Tyranids are a synergistic army... You cannot count on a couple units winning the game for you.


This is bullsh*t. The Tau is a synergistic army where everything is either a force multiplier or a niche support unit. The Tyranid codex is all about spamming the same thing over and over then simply play threat overload and use brute force to win. Hell, the codex has, like, three things that can do any synergy: the Venomthrope and the two blessings (Catalyst and Onslaught). Everything else is either a one-trick pony (Hive Commander), useless and/or unreliable (Lictor teleport homer, Trygon tunnel) or self-sufficient (most of the heavy-hitters like the Exocrine).

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Your comparisons are silly btw.


At least I'm trying .

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Tampa, FL

Eyjio wrote:
Honestly, when the new DA and CSM books came out, I was really hoping to just see a general power decrease in 40k across the board. Instead, we got the opposite - Tau and Eldar require some talent, but they're the closest thing 40k has ever had to a win button. If you completely ignore Tau, Eldar and Daemons, burn Stronghold Assault/Escalation, limit flyers and pretend that rolling for psychic powers is actually just a choice from a list, the game plays a lot better. Unfortunately, it's also far less varied and assault is still not really a worthwhile tactic. It's a weird state of game to be sure. I honestly don't enjoy it either, a lot of my enjoyment comes from envisioning battle and I just can't do it with half the garbage that's come out. I miss the days where my biggest gripes were the games took too long to play back in 2e. At least that was fun, unlike the current "pretend that the horrible imbalance doesn't exist, pretend the background material even slightly resembles in game when it doesn't and never even bother trying to win because it may as well be a coin flip in 6e" which we have currently.

GW will never learn from dissatisfaction because they're convinced that it's not the majority of their target audience and that it's unjustified. The idea of expanding their market and not being hated seem to be completely vacant from the minds of their higher up staff. I don't know a single person who dislikes the IP, to the extent I know people who only don't play due to entry cost and gakky rules. The fact that a company can take that blind loyalty and still lose sales in any period of time is quite remarkable indeed. Whilst the thought that balance is pointless and randomness is fun prevails, 40k will never be the game it should and could be. So no, they'll have learnt nothing, because we had this issue last nid dex and the chaos dex before that and they didn't learn from those either. This is the game they appear to want, even when no-one else does. In their minds, their is nothing to learn.


Exalted for speaking the truth. This is spot on; they don't even realize there's a problem and dismiss any criticism as people not in their target demographic anyways and therefore can be dismissed as just fringe whining. The fact that they don't accept or acknowledge anything other than praise and adulation is the most troubling because it shos they live in their own little bubble and are oblivious to everything around them.

The phrase "Let them eat cake" springs to mind here.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
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Eye of Terror

Okay AtoMaki it's obvious you hate the codex and that is fine. Tau has synergy but units like the Riptide and Missilesides don't need much help... That's why people don't like this codex, there's no cheese. One example of synergy is synapse. And btw the Crone is Ld10 so it'll do fine by its lonesome.

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 Dozer Blades wrote:
Okay AtoMaki it's obvious you hate the codex and that is fine.


Man, I would love to hate the codex, but I can't. It is not a bad codex per see. Just a very unimaginative and blank one.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Tau has synergy but units like the Riptide and Missilesides don't need much help...


You don't know the Tau codex that much, don't you? The Riptides and the Missilesides are nothing without a Buffmander, markerlight support, a Fire Warrior Castle or other derp-magnet, units that can lend a hand with Overwatch (usually other Missilesides/Riptides) and maybe a Farseer.

 Dozer Blades wrote:

That's why people don't like this codex, there's no cheese.


There is cheese in the codex: both the Shooty Monster Smash and the "Pressure Bullet" are rather cheesy setups. It is just one thing that they are also boring like hell.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
One example of synergy is synapse.


You mean, the ability that punishes you when you don't have it?

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Eye of Terror

Tau are just as boring. I respect what the army can do but it's got EZ win all over it.

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 AtoMaki wrote:
 Dozer Blades wrote:
Okay AtoMaki it's obvious you hate the codex and that is fine.


Man, I would love to hate the codex, but I can't. It is not a bad codex per see. Just a very unimaginative and blank one.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Tau has synergy but units like the Riptide and Missilesides don't need much help...


You don't know the Tau codex that much, don't you? The Riptides and the Missilesides are nothing without a Buffmander, markerlight support, a Fire Warrior Castle or other derp-magnet, units that can lend a hand with Overwatch (usually other Missilesides/Riptides) and maybe a Farseer.

 Dozer Blades wrote:

That's why people don't like this codex, there's no cheese.


There is cheese in the codex: both the Shooty Monster Smash and the "Pressure Bullet" are rather cheesy setups. It is just one thing that they are also boring like hell.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
One example of synergy is synapse.


You mean, the ability that punishes you when you don't have it?


What's this pressure bullet? Google-fu is weak today.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/09 00:38:09


 
   
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 AtoMaki wrote:
 Dozer Blades wrote:
Okay AtoMaki it's obvious you hate the codex and that is fine.


Man, I would love to hate the codex, but I can't. It is not a bad codex per see. Just a very unimaginative and blank one.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Tau has synergy but units like the Riptide and Missilesides don't need much help...


You don't know the Tau codex that much, don't you? The Riptides and the Missilesides are nothing without a Buffmander, markerlight support, a Fire Warrior Castle or other derp-magnet, units that can lend a hand with Overwatch (usually other Missilesides/Riptides) and maybe a Farseer.

 Dozer Blades wrote:

That's why people don't like this codex, there's no cheese.


There is cheese in the codex: both the Shooty Monster Smash and the "Pressure Bullet" are rather cheesy setups. It is just one thing that they are also boring like hell.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
One example of synergy is synapse.


You mean, the ability that punishes you when you don't have it?


I think that it is becoming apparent that Dozer Blades doesn't have the Tyranid Codex or doesn't play Tyranids....

There is nothing synergistic about Tyranids, that is the pitch that GW is giving them in order to make them seem appealing and apparently people are buying it. Dozer you keep saying things implying that everyone wants a new Tau/Eldar codex but no one in this thread has said something to that extent, all the criticism of the book is coming from how boring it is and how uninspired the rules are.

Let's talk for a minute about Mawlocs, a S6 AP2 pie plate that effectively has reroll to wound that can only be used two times a game on average. That is nothing impressive, so look at it's stats. T6 3+ save SOUNDS great but...A3 WS3, so he isn't gonna be doing much outside of that pie plate every other turn. This isn't accounting for the fact that he scatters full distance which can be mitigated by a lictor as everyone is saying but...an opponent who doesn't see THAT coming from a mile away before deployment is even done has other problems. Lictors aren't survivable enough to be that close to the enemy and not get slaughtered. Plus running a lictor means less Zoanthropes and Venomthropes so why take the time to do it? If you REALLY want an AP2 pie plate just run the Exocrine, he is better than the Mawloc in every way really.
   
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St. George, UT

There is only one "lesson" that GW is even interested in.

Did the new Nid codex make us money? If yes, job well done and life goes on. If no, well, what can we do to make the next codex release make us money.

That is the business lesson. The other minimal factors like does the army play on the table top? If yes, well done. If no, look to main question and depending on if it made money or not the answer very well might be who cares.

Its a bit of a flow chart. GW does not care about power levels, they do not care about perceived useless units. They do not care how badly X codex can beat up Y codex. All they care about is did the book and models sell enough to recoup development costs.

Yeah the LE books may not have sold out. But Nids are a niche army. I cant see a single reason why someone who doesn't play nids would even want to buy one, in fact I think most people who don't play Nids would even buy the normal codex just because of price. Things are different with the more popular armies, because the curiousity factor kicks in because you might go in that direction sometime.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/09 01:12:58


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 Jayden63 wrote:
There is only one "lesson" that GW is even interested in.

Did the new Nid codex make us money? If yes, job well done and life goes on. If no, well, what can we do to make the next codex release make us money.

That is the business lesson. The other minimal factors like does the army play on the table top? If yes, well done. If no, look to main question and depending on if it made money or not the answer very well might be who cares.

Its a bit of a flow chart. GW does not care about power levels, they do not care about perceived useless units. They do not care how badly X codex can beat up Y codex. All they care about is did the book and models sell enough to recoup development costs.

Yeah the LE books may not have sold out. But Nids are a niche army. I cant see a single reason why someone who doesn't play nids would even want to buy one, in fact I think most people who don't play Nids would even buy the normal codex just because of price. Things are different with the more popular armies, because the curiousity factor kicks in because you might go in that direction sometime.


If that's the metric they use, they've failed. Look at any of the stats they've provided us: the nid codex is one of the worst selling ebooks, is the only army to have not sold out the limited codices (even in the UK, their primary market!) and I'm yet to see most of the new boxes leave the shelves of my local store. These are all pretty good indications that it's a failure, again. As for niche army, they're not at all. In fact, they've been fairly headline in the past, pretty much from space hulk through to the release of assault on black reach. I know way more people owning nids than any other army, excluding marine variants. This happened in 5e, and they still didn't learn, yet in 4e they were the most popular army in my area by far and when Space Hulk was rereleased, EVERYONE wanted a copy. This is not an army which should sell badly, yet it has.

Basically, what I'm saying is GW doesn't appear to have a "metric", they just look at sales and decide certain armies aren't worth the effort as they don't generate profit. At no point do they question themselves. We know this, because at the release of DE and Necrons, the designers admitted it at gamesday; those armies only got updated due to them being the authors passions. They will learn nothing from this.
   
 
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