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They should make that obvious fa backers somewhere. Gonna a skip it in either case, dropped ma back To my pledge with little overage and this down to a dollar. Hopefully the backslide is mild, better its s shorter campaign.
Alpharius wrote: In fact, it is poor form - what was the reasoning given for the delete and re-boot?
The stated reasoning is "To try and keep things sane(ish) I will delete comments once they’ve been incorporated into the digital rules, discussed in an article, or added to any FAQ below."
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
Funny thing is the people complaining backed both and could still have edited their MA pledge manager to save the $5 instead of everyone having to pay $5 more now. Anyway it pushes the $20 cost from the MA survey down to the DBX survey so it saves me spending some money this month.
and to be a bit more constructive in my posts
Update #21
Mar 2 2014
Let's Talk Material!
19 comments
4 likes
We are over a third of the way there to locking in Brute Force – dare we imagine a third stretch goal broken in three days?
Today we’re going to talk plastics – well, Ronnie and James are going to talk plastics:
As you know, we’re using a different kind of plastic for DreadBall Xtreme, and the miniatures – with the exceptions of the Kovossian Mutants Plague and Mechanites team – are all coming preassembled to truly get you gaming straight away.
Over on the Mars Attacks Kickstarter we've just previewed a painted production Martian, which we’ve included below just so you can see how fantastic the detail on the Xtreme figures is going to be. Every line is crisp, and the detail on the face is incredible:
Pretty cool huh? Let us know what you think in the comments!
Oo, and whilst we’re on a Mars Attacsk theme, some of you have asked if the Martian DreadBall team will have rules to use in Xtreme. The answer is of course yes!
Xtreme Quirkworthy
Games Designer Jake Thornton has been busy beavering away on a number of articles covering topics that frequently came up after the Beta rules were released. You can give them a read here:
- What’s the difference between DreadBall and DreadBall Xtreme?
- Why Strikers can’t slam
- Why 4 actions not 5
We want to know your thoughts and opinions – let us know what you think in the comments. Tried the beta? Why not tell us about your games as well!
Oh, and Jake has done an interview with Starburst which you can read here!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/03/02 15:09:21
Alpharius wrote: In fact, it is poor form - what was the reasoning given for the delete and re-boot?
The stated reasoning is "To try and keep things sane(ish) I will delete comments once they’ve been incorporated into the digital rules, discussed in an article, or added to any FAQ below."
Reading the comments on that post and Jake's replies to them (replying to issues with the matter) really doesn't give one a great deal of confidence. One thing I noticed was someone (Rob Clarke) offhanded said "My group Hasplays[sic] upwards of 20 games a month for the last 6 months and I don’t think it has ever happened." That is, a fairly general, vague statement about not recalling something happening in their personal recollection.
Jake apparently takes that offhand remark and repeats it like a clinical study was done, as it morphs into "120+ games and never used? Surely that is a darling that needs murdering."
If you don't want to change something, don't change it. Don't grab an offhand comment like that and put the UL seal on it.
As for the main issues, I snagged an EB and am pondering dropping it. It occurs (somewhat cynically) that the dark Astarian team is the most visually interesting one we are likely to see (personal opinion, of course), which may just be why they put it forth so very prominently in their ads...
Interesting - the Asterian team is the one I'm least happy to be saddled with.
Mantic have just done a "Rampage offensive," and as far as keeping me in the game goes, it worked. I think it's pretty clear that they'll need to do a "Frenzy offensive" soon if they want to prevent a mid-campaign backslide. Things just aren't progressing quickly enough to keep Frenzy backers from getting nervous. True, it could all turn around in the end and be an incredible deal, but that's not really the way human psychology works, which is why Frenzy style pledges are treacherous beasts.
As with Mars Attacks, it feels to me like Mantic started with a bang and got over-confident. If our first day was that good, we'd better play this safe and really stretch this out so we don't end up beholden to making 40 teams! So they make the stretch goals from team to team wide apart, and then they pad that out with extra ones on top (new sculpts stretch goals, for example) that should have been included in the first place. Then after the early birds are gone progress slows to a crawl and those wide apart stretch goals look less and less attainable. Then people start abandoning ship, and they have to recalibrate.
Seems like it would be much easier to bring stretch goal levels down to a more modest rate in the first place. Not every KS is going to be as popular as Deadzone or Warpath; some products have a smaller niche. It might have looked like Deadzone Xtreme's niche would be even larger than Deadzone's based on the first day or so, but since then it has been shown to be otherwise.
Dakkadakka: Bringing wargamers together, one smile at a time.™
DaveC wrote: EDIT: Never mind Mantic made an error on the image in the email about the MA Dreadball team.
Was the mistake the price?
Yep they put $15 on it like all the DBX teams whether by mistake or they just plain forgot what they charged before but a few people complained about it being cheaper so now it's $20.
The $15 DBX teams are what the DB teams should cost. I suspect the MA $20 team was mantic pulling a number out of their ass during the KS and they have since realized that can release an 8 figure team (three sculpts) for less.
But since they called it $20 during the MAKS now they're going back to that rather than admit it was too high.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/02 18:23:52
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
Vermonter wrote: Not every KS is going to be as popular as Deadzone or Warpath; some products have a smaller niche. It might have looked like Deadzone Xtreme's niche would be even larger than Deadzone's based on the first day or so, but since then it has been shown to be otherwise.
It would have been so easy to double the size of that niche. All they needed to do was include extra arms with weapons and not pre-assemble them. People could then build unarmed gangers for Dreadball Xtreme, or armed gangers for Necromunda.
A bit of an odd question: have there been any photos of the Asterians from behind? While it should go without saying that Mantic wouldn't forget that people have glutes, none of the pictures I've seen actually show any indication that they haven't.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
Not for the $15 mini team price, or do you expect them to throw extra prones in at that price point? 15 seems as generous as they've gone with those prices (other than bogo, which they've said they won't be doing afaik).
The teams graphics might not list prones but the Prone update #5 says they are included with just the teams as well the boxed game
If we hit this stretch goal, we will produce the Convict and Asterian Prone Figures and add 2 to every Convict and Asterian Team, including those in the Boxed Game in pledges of Fury ($75) and up!
This means that whether you’re pledging for just a team, or a pledge that includes the Boxed Game, you’ll get these wonderfully characterful pieces!
That said only the original 2 teams have prones so far.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/02 19:57:48
I thought I read there were not going to be boosters for the DBX teams. If that is the case (but at my age my memory is going so it may not be) then I would expect the prone figures to be included in with the main team. The alternate poses should be in for sure.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
DaveC wrote: The teams graphics might not list prones but the Prone update #5 says they are included with just the teams as well the boxed game
If we hit this stretch goal, we will produce the Convict and Asterian Prone Figures and add 2 to every Convict and Asterian Team, including those in the Boxed Game in pledges of Fury ($75) and up!
This means that whether you’re pledging for just a team, or a pledge that includes the Boxed Game, you’ll get these wonderfully characterful pieces!
That said only the original 2 teams have prones so far.
So far. But you know darn well Mantic has them planned for all the teams.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/02 19:59:05
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
Yep prones and keepers - well for teams that have guards at least they really do have a lot to fit in as well as another 7 teams! (well actually 8 as Brokkrs are still locked)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/02 20:08:57
CptJake wrote: The $15 DBX teams are what the DB teams should cost. I suspect the MA $20 team was mantic pulling a number out of their ass during the KS and they have since realized that can release an 8 figure team (three sculpts) for less.
But since they called it $20 during the MAKS now they're going back to that rather than admit it was too high.
That's my feeling on it. For $15, I would have bought them, as well as the robots, plague and free agents. For $20, I didn't even consider it. Maybe I'll even get lucky and get them cheaper from Miniature Market next Black Friday.
I'm sure Mantic would prefer to sell a bunch of teams for less profit, with the chance for add on sales down the road, than sell a few to the die-hards for more profit.
It's kind of a shame that Mantic gave them uniforms designed to show gratuitous skin and then chickened out of making the skin titillating, offending people who don't go for T-and-A while boring the people who do. There's a joke in there somewhere about Mantic half-assing it, but all I really need to say is almost.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/02 22:00:48
I hate you so much right now, Bob. One, you got that song stuck in my head. Two, now I really want a Kingdom Death-based DreadBall team. Heck the worst violence violence of the pitch would be "Tuesday" in that world...
On other matters, the Early Bird thing is going to hurt Mantic in the long run here. They really need to find another way to encourage people to back early because multiple EB levels just makes people camp out on various levels using multiple accounts. As DaveC said, this will inevitably lead to a backslide at some point. They probably should have just priced Frenzy using the Rampage EB pricing and left it alone, similar to how Suppression Team in DeadZone was basically the EB Strike Team price per box. I know there's a keen interest in getting early pledges, but I just don't think EBs is really working out.
That said, I'll be sitting on my EB Frenzy until at least the 25th of March. I love the idea of the pledge because it's exactly what I would have ended up doing anyway (i.e. - buy everything), I just don't think the limited/time-sensitive aspects of it are going to work out that well.
That's my feeling on it. For $15, I would have bought them, as well as the robots, plague and free agents. For $20, I didn't even consider it. Maybe I'll even get lucky and get them cheaper from Miniature Market next Black Friday.
I'm sure Mantic would prefer to sell a bunch of teams for less profit, with the chance for add on sales down the road, than sell a few to the die-hards for more profit.
I am sure Mantic would be with you. Unfortunately, the "fans" disagreed and demanded a higher price.
And Mantic has seen enough Kickstarter that they'd rather sell a few miniatures less than risk turning the fickle mood of their Kickstarter-backers against them, as has happend to some other Kickstarters.
scarletsquig wrote: It isn't the first time that people have complained about Mantic lowering the price of something, I've seen it happen a lot.
I think it is a part of the "Kickstarter-exclusive" thing.
People expect the prices they "pay" on Kickstarter (in this case Mars Attacks) to be the lowest ever, just like the (used to) expect Kickstarter-exclusive miniatures to be never on sale elsewhere (hence most pro-Kickstarters now put in carefully worded phrases about being "allowed" to use even Kickstarter-exclusives on events, etc.., as if they'd needed the Backer's permission).
The implicit Kickstarter-deal is broken, if somebody somewhere gets a "better deal" than you on Kickstarter, or an exclusive mini that you thought was not for them to have.
Heck the worst violence violence of the pitch would be "Tuesday" in that world...
I love the idea of the pledge because it's exactly what I would have ended up doing anyway (i.e. - buy everything), I just don't think the limited/time-sensitive aspects of it are going to work out that well.
