Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Deadzone II Kickstarter next month, hope you're all excited.

I dropped an EB Frenzy in the last 10 minutes and took a Rampage. Had they locked in alternative sculpts earlier that may not have happened. Had they shown more than concept sketches that may not have happened. As it stands, I'm hoping I didn't pledge too much as it is. I was much less than impressed by what they showed for the teams. Holding critical (to me) items out like the prone and alternative poses made my decision easy.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scarletsquig wrote:
Deadzone II Kickstarter next month, hope you're all excited.

I can't believe this one didn't reach $600k!

Yes, it still did quite well, but...

No way thy said eye let this end and then fulfill dz s2 here making me buy more dz right?

Right? :(

No, I feel they have hurt their reputation and credibility, quite much with the unannounced switches of materials and failure to produce good models, good enough to equal the concept art at least.

The Deadzone kickstarter didn't quite help raising the confidence and it is quite reflected on this one.

This is a kickstarter (and mars attacks) they must deliver really well, I am not sure if it will be the tipping point, but they must repair their reputation before they attempt launching their big kiackstarters again.

Yeah, a disappointing but not entirely unexpected finish, IMO. Too many things going on right now in KS world, too many projects from Mantic that they need to finish up before embarking on yet more stuff, etc.

That said, I'm happy with what I'm getting, which is way more than I realistically need. There's enough in there that I don't feel like I've spent too much vs. what I'm getting, though I am much less critical on things than a lot of folks here so there's that as well.

I think between this and *maybe* SDE's KS that I'm done with KickStarters for a goodly while. Heck, by the time this one actually gets here I might finally be finished paying for all of them. Fatigue and the fact that FFG will be taking goodly chunks of money from the budget between now and the end of the year means 2015 will be when I'm looking to back something big again.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
No, I feel they have hurt their reputation and credibility, quite much with the unannounced switches of materials and failure to produce good models, good enough to equal the concept art at least.

The Deadzone kickstarter didn't quite help raising the confidence and it is quite reflected on this one.

This is a kickstarter (and mars attacks) they must deliver really well, I am not sure if it will be the tipping point, but they must repair their reputation before they attempt launching their big kiackstarters again.

They remedied the unannounced switching of materials - they were very clear about it this time 'round for which I'm very thankful. I also thought the Deadzone models were what was promised pretty much, and much better than Mantics previous kickstarters (supposedly - it's the first of theirs I've backed). I don't think either impacted this KS.

- Frontloading interfering with "the KS experience"
- Limited market niche
- People having KS burn out / being overloaded with minis to paint
- People realizing they don't need 12 full teams and 20 rarely used individual characters etc. (Lightweights!)
- Competition from high quality kickstarters

The switching of materials is a very large part of why I didn't consider this one- I was one of the ones who got a mixed material team (and poor casts at that) for the first Dreadball.

I didn't follow Deadzone, but it was supposed to be the big saving Kickstarter for Mantic... if folks haven't been impressed with the results of that one, I don't know what more there is to say.

This is a company that, quite clearly, gets middle of the road sculpting done, and has middle of the road quality. And honestly, both are being a bit generous- they've had good results, but also many examples of Much lower than middle of the road sculpting and quality of products.

What continues to shock me is how much they raise despite all that... I guess it's just because the minis are so darn cheap, but even people who want tons of cheap minis have got to be getting maxed out a bit at this point.

I think Bones is a bit different in that you're getting tons of cheap minis in a lesser material, but heck, at least some of them were sculpted by Tre Manor back in the day!

Fatigue, fantasy sports niche, unknown sculpt quality, new materials... there's a lot going on.

Having 2 open surveys during all this didn't help either (well, at least one definite open one... can't remember now for MA).

Like a few of you, I'm probably going to have to take a sabbatical from KS for a bit (after Darklands and SDE though!).

I would like to see Mantic do a super simple campaign for Dwarf King's Hold- one pledge level, limited add ons, stretches basically upgrade what's in the box (or hell, just give me a decent box compared to the current ones).

 GrimDork wrote:
@Bobtheinquisitor might you link it? I went looking for it once at a similar suggestion but my google-fu failed me. Or maybe I was on eBay.

Here is a link to it on Miniature Market. They seem to be out of stock at the moment, but you can probably get one at a lot of place.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Deadzone II Kickstarter next month, hope you're all excited.

Are you kidding, SS? Please tell me you're kidding.

I ended up going with Disorder for $35. Even if all the sculpts are terrible (not going to happen), that will be easy to spend on the Deadzone acrylic windows. I thought about pledging a dollar, then realized that by paying $35 now, I could pay another $35 or so when the survey concludes, rather than paying $70+ in one chunk, which would attract my wife's attention. (Mu ha ha ha)

Dreadball was always going to be a hard sell for me, as I don't have a huge interest in the game itself and doubt I could interest my family in playing it. I primarily considered mid and higher range pledges to get a lot of new Warpath universe figures to proxy and convert. The campaign had a lot of problems and frustrations, but in the end my decision not to back at Rampage or Frenzy came down to three things others have touched on already.

1. Almost no sculpts or renders shown.

2. The sculpts that were shown, the Asterians and Convicts, were not sculpts I would buy if they weren't bundled.

3. Mantic casting the sculpts in a new material, the results of which we hope will be good, but don't really know yet.

In the end, I wasn't willing to risk $140 on concept art.

I'm not planning on doing KS campaigns again until Deadzone 2 or Warpath launch, and I very much hope that whichever one comes first doesn't launch until the end of the year. If they can do better with getting out more renders and sculpts during the campaign, I could definitely see doing a larger pledge again.

 GrimDork wrote:
@Bobtheinquisitor might you link it? I went looking for it once at a similar suggestion but my google-fu failed me. Or maybe I was on eBay.

@Compel, consider that idea stolen, and there are already stupidly good sniper merc rules ala Nastanza

re. DFG Eisenkern + DZ/DB compatibility, I did a couple quick and dirty scale comparisons. The rebel human looks pretty damn good with eisenkern arms and rifle imo and with some hot water bending of the minis, they should take to DFG weapons nicely. The scale of the weapons in general seems good for Dreadball, especially as you have the choice between SMGs and rifles. Included some obviously bad scale comparisons such as the stormtrooper head on an Asterian. Sorry for dodgy lighting and blu-tac, also some bits are skewed due to not wanting to cut tabs from the minis.
eg,

Thanks BtI, I finally tracked it down. eBay has them reasonably priced too. The models are neat but the aesthetic doesn't suit me (but that leviathan...), however the pouches, knives, and quite possibly the hands as well all look useful. The RPG things and rifles can just go into the bits box (look kind of WW or modern but not SciFi, bolt action looking rifles, surprised there aren't drumstick bombs), but the rest looks to be worth nabbing a set. Should be a strong supplement to hassle free guns so thanks for the tip


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Damn Yonan you are my hero. I feel way better about the rifles especially. Heads look more suited to gw guardsmen but that may give me a reason to look back into the few I have around. Wow thanks for the effort

The individual hands are amazing, multiple hand signals and weapon grips for both left and right arms. A large variety of arm poses too, but you run the risk of them not matching the mini whereas the hands are pretty universal.

 Yonan wrote:

 GrimDork wrote:
@Bobtheinquisitor might you link it? I went looking for it once at a similar suggestion but my google-fu failed me. Or maybe I was on eBay.

@Compel, consider that idea stolen, and there are already stupidly good sniper merc rules ala Nastanza

re. DFG Eisenkern + DZ/DB compatibility, I did a couple quick and dirty scale comparisons. The rebel human looks pretty damn good with eisenkern arms and rifle imo and with some hot water bending of the minis, they should take to DFG weapons nicely. The scale of the weapons in general seems good for Dreadball, especially as you have the choice between SMGs and rifles. Included some obviously bad scale comparisons such as the stormtrooper head on an Asterian. Sorry for dodgy lighting and blu-tac, also some bits are skewed due to not wanting to cut tabs from the minis.
eg,

Great googly moogly.... That is some damn fine work, and opens worlds of possibilities with Mantic stuff.

Yep, I'm sold, will be scouring eBay as soon as the little one is snoozing.

Agreed- Nicely done, Yonan

I noticed that image and the first thing I wondered was why don't my Deadzone guns have that kind of detail, that's a huge difference and definitely something to consider.

The marauder guns seem fine, they have sights and grips and unaccounted for whatsits. I did notice some softness for the plague guns I've seen so far. Can't comment on the rebs, the warpath enforcer guns seem fine, again can't comment on the DZ enforcer guns as I've only just primed the sniper and haven't gotten around to his gun.

 GrimDork wrote:
The marauder guns seem fine, they have sights and grips and unaccounted for whatsits. I did notice some softness for the plague guns I've seen so far. Can't comment on the rebs, the warpath enforcer guns seem fine, again can't comment on the DZ enforcer guns as I've only just primed the sniper and haven't gotten around to his gun.

Most of my Rebs guns are flat plastic I at first thought to be flash, I started trimming it off and realised it had a mold line!

I'm not a big fan of DZ Reb weapons either, but like the marauders etc. I like the Reb models, so this could be a good option. Added a couple more Dreadball comparisons... Teratons, Nameless and Z'zor were out for easy Eisenkern conversions due to size and/or lack of hands ; p Zees look pretty damn good even with a roughly done SMG, and with some bending the chromium chargers could look good with rifles. Was having trouble getting anything done with the Ratmen team for some reason. Bodes well for getting some good Deadzone minis out of some of the Extreme teams at least I hope! Go~~~ Crystallens and Sphyr and the other 10 teams that I can't really remember what they are ; p

 Yonan wrote:
I'm not a big fan of DZ Reb weapons either, but like the marauders etc. I like the Reb models, so this could be a good option. Added a couple more Dreadball comparisons... Teratons, Nameless and Z'zor were out for easy Eisenkern conversions due to size and/or lack of hands ; p Zees look pretty damn good even with a roughly done SMG, and with some bending the chromium chargers could look good with rifles. Was having trouble getting anything done with the Ratmen team for some reason. Bodes well for getting some good Deadzone minis out of some of the Extreme teams at least I hope! Go~~~ Crystallens and Sphyr and the other 10 teams that I can't really remember what they are ; p

Recoil dampeners for the win!

privateer4hire wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:
Deadzone II Kickstarter next month, hope you're all excited.

Are you kidding, SS? Please tell me you're kidding.

I am.

This is very possibly the result of the money having already left my account, but I'm actually quite pleased with how this ended up - more so than Mantic possibly, who may be a little out of pocket at this point!

There were two effective pledges - one normal, one for completionists. People (I'd hope) ended up at the one that interested them more. The cheaper pledge ended up being better absolute value for money, but the completionist level still offered huge savings over individual add-ons (with the usual tradeoff of losing flexibility), something that wasn't possible in the first Dreadball KS, for example.

We have a new game, an expansion/multiplayer mode, a smaller expansion/conversion kit, a campaign, a mousemat for DBO, 12 teams & rules for DBO, 12 teams & rules for DBX, a load of nice-looking (but probably seldom used) MVPs & Giants, and a decent selection of extras with rules that enhance/complicate things.

I think the proof will be in the quality of the rules - whether the new teams unbalance DBO, whether all of the additional rules/modes make DBX more fun to play or just longer. In terms of sheer product I believe this will now be the best-supported tabletop sports game in history - I just hope it has the longevity of something like Bloodbowl!

Its seemed like a very confused and bitty campaign looking back.

Take the main pledge level being pushed - it wasn't Rampage (which is actually quite a nice deal), but Frenzy at a whopping $375. Sure it includes everything, andyes its a great deal, but I dont have that cash in one go. Comparing it to sedition wars, I pledge $100ish and ended up nearly tripling that later as the pledge manager got rolled out - I had the time to save the cash and I didn't have to take one big hit.

As for the next Kickstarter... I'd expect a Deadzone 2 to hit in August/September with a Christmas delivery slot and a much lower sweet spot (no more then a $100) -

 RiTides wrote:

What continues to shock me is how much they raise despite all that... I guess it's just because the minis are so darn cheap.

I think its more that the games themselves are just very, very good.

I don't do kickstarter, I have a local shop and I'd rather buy through them so I still have one, but that's just a personal thing and I understand why it is so popular, but for me deadzone and dreadball, both of which I bought at retail (minus the shop discount) are first and foremost two of the best tabletop games produced in the last few years. The minis themselves, whilst a bit variable in quality, are secondary to that.

A potential Christmas delivery for a potential Deadzone 2 KS?

Good luck with that!

I've left my feedback for Mantic in the comments and I'm hoping they send me the why did you drop down your pledge email that they like to send out so I can give some proper feedback.

I think people here have mostly covered the problems already, Mantic need to step back from KS for awhile and catch up with what they have on already. Running a KS while 2 other projects had open PMs was a mistake. I think a lot of people ended up robbing peter to pay Paul, Mantic got the same amount of money from them just spread over more projects.

They have to stop this time limited ubber EB pledge level business both Frenzy and BoTB caused problems. The projects have become far to front loaded or mid point loaded leading to crashes. This is the first of the so called big KS players to flat line their kicktraq graph at the end (that I know of) and that alone must tell them something.

In the end my decision to go with a minimal Rampage pledge for now came down to a lack of alt poses and prones, only 2 teams sculpted and the rest concept art only and actually not liking 5 of those concepted teams who I just don't think fit the gritty theme that I thought this was going for.

I look forward to Deadzone 2 but mostly for the terrain which is great and the best stuff mantic have managed to produce so far (IMO).

Some good news about the pledge manager with this one is that they've got their own solution in place that allows them to track the total as surveys come in and unlock new stretch goals and keep us informed of the progress via their blog.

So, in effect, the kickstarter continues once the pledge manager is released and continues to unlock however many more goals are needed.

I'm wondering how long before they remove Kickstarter from the equation completely and run a crowdfunder using their own survey software.

It's certainly possible for them, just a matter of seeing whether or not it'd be desirable. It's likely that this hybrid initial kickstarter + extended survey preorder after system is the best solution since KS as a platform is still great.

They've already done it with deadzone, used the survey money to unlock more stretch goals like hard plastic enforcers and new terrain sprue, DBX will be the first one to formalize the process is all.