Imperial Knights - Codex Preview Video 03/03 - Gasp! Probably worth watching!

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Azreal13**

JWBS wrote:
No Castellan there

No plastic neither!

**CalgarsPimpHand**

BrianDavion wrote:
intresting thing is one of those wardens reminds me of the lord of skulls. possiable orgin perhaps?

The Lord of Skulls has its roots in... the Epic-scale Lord of Skulls

**Moopy**

yakface wrote:

These will obviously sell like hotcakes because of how amazing they look regardless of how good they are.

But they aren't good, they're terrible if you're allowing other Lords of War into the equation. Because the fact that they don't appear to have any 'D' ranged weapons (and still cost 375 points) means that they are a terrible choice compared to even a Warhound (which is just about the same cost as two Knights) that is armed with two 'double-barreled tubo-laser destructors (four 'D' shots a turn)...that Warhound will absolutely decimate two Knights.

That's the stupid terrible curse of GW releasing rules where 'D' weapons cost no extra points when they are, far and away, the best weapons in the game. That makes any Escalation unit without them utter garbage.

So the only real question is...are Knights Lords of War or not? The text from the WD seems to maybe indicate they're not, but the fact that they are a super-heavy vehicle and have 'D' weapons (things that only Lords of War are/get) kind of suggests that they are...will have to wait and see the full rules to be sure.

But really, since Knights are super-heavies and have 'D' CC weapons, I have a hard time believing that this will suddenly be the line that gets drawn in the sand where people can easily say that Knights are okay to include (because they don't have ranged 'D' weapons) while all other actual Lords of War are not allowed. It just makes no sense. GW is clearly going to keep pushing this direction, so to me it seems inevitable that either Knights are going to need to be banned in tournaments, or all Lords of War are going to have to be allowed.

And if you allow other Lords of War, then Knights are a terrible, terrible, terrible choice.

The only thing I think we can hope and pray for is for GW to release a '7th edition' as rumored that fundamentally changes the 'D' rule, calming it down and making it not such a bonkers-obvious choice over every weapon type (for no additional points cost). But given that they've *JUST* released Apocalypse and Escalation with the 'D' weapon rules in them, makes me doubt that this is a realistic possibility.

Amen. Adding in super heavies to basic 40k was a terrible idea. Great, wonderful looking models, but terrible for the game.

**Chad Warden**

CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
intresting thing is one of those wardens reminds me of the lord of skulls. possiable orgin perhaps?

The Lord of Skulls has its roots in... the Epic-scale Lord of Skulls

That's a Lord of Battles

**Yodhrin**

insaniak wrote:
These are epic!

An awesome translation of the original designs into a more modern, detailed look. Only thing I'm not too keen on is the protruding shoulder-stubber... but that would be easily fixed by just shortening the barrel.

Interesting choice to let them be fielded as an army on their own. Expensive... but interesting.

How expensive depends on the individual price; if they're priced even remotely rationally at £40(Maulerfiend) or £50(Riptide), they wouldn't actually be that expensive at army scale; with an online discount you could get a 1500 point force for, what, £128-£160? Depending on what you buy and where you get it from, adding some AA/utility Allies could take you to a 2000 point force for around £200, and considering how much something like a 2k Guard army will cost these days that seems almost reasonable.

Of course if the preorder rumour is true and GW actually think they can charge £95 for a slightly bigger Dreadknight, well

**BrianDavion**

Chad Warden wrote:
CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
intresting thing is one of those wardens reminds me of the lord of skulls. possiable orgin perhaps?

The Lord of Skulls has its roots in... the Epic-scale Lord of Skulls

That's a Lord of Battles

name changed but yeah definatly the same thing

**aka_mythos**

azreal13 wrote:
JWBS wrote:
No Castellan there

No plastic neither!

He did say, these are "the original knights". It was only after these 9 that GW expanded the line. Making the distinction between Paladins and Errant Knights, reinventing lancers, replacing wardens with crusaders and castellans, and introducing the baron knight.

**Padre**

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Padre wrote:
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Padre wrote:
I wonder why the designers went away from the powerfist on the original (Epic) Errant, and went for the "Reaper Chainsword" on both variants seen here? If you go back far enough, even the Paladin had the option for a powerfist...

Sprue design? Box size limitations?

Just a wild guess here, but maybe the "Codex" will have options for further upgrades on the Knights? (as opposed to the WD material we see here...)

I'll guess it's because a PF would not be able to reach any targets on the ground?

Fair point...

I was also thinking it might be because the Chainsword is the only CCW variant that isn't available with the Dreamforge Leviathans, maybe?

Or am I giving GW too much "credit" for planning ahead?

There is a chainsaw arm for the Dreamforce models

There you go, I honestly didn't know that Mark had released one... (I kind of stopped following the Dreamforge updates after I got my Leviathan with the twin assault-cannon arms, as that was the configuration I was holding out for.)

Now, I'm wondering how interchangeable the DF parts and Knight parts will be...

**RiTides**

Is there a likely preorder date for these? Sorry if I missed it!

**BrianDavion**

RiTides wrote:
Is there a likely preorder date for these? Sorry if I missed it!

proably next weekend

**Azreal13**

aka_mythos wrote:
azreal13 wrote:
JWBS wrote:
No Castellan there

No plastic neither!
He did say, these are "the original knights". It was only after these 9 that GW expanded the line. Making the distinction between Paladins and Errant Knights, reinventing lancers, replacing wardens with crusaders and castellans, and introducing the baron knight.

That was kind of what I was implying, perhaps I was too subtle!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
RiTides wrote:
Is there a likely preorder date for these? Sorry if I missed it!

proably next weekend

I might, depending on where on the shiny/ludicrous price curve these end up, actually order one of these for delivery to my local GW. I'm moving very shortly, so can't really risk mail delays to my current address.

But then, I should just be a grown up and wait until I'm in the new place...

Ah well, we'll see who wins between my inner ten year old and my adult self when they appear next to an add to cart button!

**hotsauceman1**

Im not sure, the Rules seem Iffy TBH. But if it is available for Regular 40k, sure

**Azreal13**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im not sure, the Rules seem Iffy TBH. But if it is available for Regular 40k, sure

Never mind the rules

**hotsauceman1**

I know. But maybe just friendly games.
AND I wonder if it can take on a WarithKnight

**Vaktathi**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
I know. But maybe just friendly games.
AND I wonder if it can take on a WarithKnight

In a shooting war, no. If CC gets into play, the Knight should definitely have the upper hand. That said the Knight also costs half again as much...

**hotsauceman1**

Which Knight?

**jamesk1973**

Looks nice.

I rarely play anymore but, it would look good on my shelf dispensing hell...

**AllSeeingSkink**

xttz wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Maybe just feed it 15 termagaunts each turn so it can't do anything worth while for the game.

If you can get 3 melee equipped Carnifexes to charge it, that would probably be the end of it, at the expense of 1 or 2 carni's, so maybe tie it up with some gargoyle fodder and then setup a Carni brood to charge it.

It would be difficult if you didn't tailor your list though, I don't think I'd ever take 3 CC Carni's unless it was quite a large game.

The trouble is that Fexes would never be able allowed to charge it... they only move 6" compared to the Knight's 12". Without the initial charge and those free HoW hits, they'll struggle to do any damage as the Knight attacks first at I4 and kills 1-2 of them before they strike back.

Trygons are probably the best bet... they have Fleet, strike at I4, can better absorb the D3+1 wound Destroyer hits, and can do 5 Smash attacks on the charge at a better WS. It would still be a suicide attack, just a slightly more effective one.

Maybe. Even with 5 smash attacks on the charge, that's only about 2.5 HP on average, so 2 Trygons if you're lucky will do it in 1 phase, but only if you're a bit lucky. The Carnifexes with their 3D3 Hammer of Wrath at S9 would do most the damage, then if you have them Adrenal Glands, if 1 fex died (which is the average), you are left with 10 attacks at S10. So on average the fexes would be doing 7.8 HP on the charge, but it wouldn't be hard to get unlucky and have all 3 of your fexes die (405pts worth). It also wouldn't be hard to get unlucky and have your 2 Trygons die (380pts worth).

I think you'd have to use the cheap fearless units 'nids have in order to get a charge either way. So really it's not something you want to come up against as a Tyranid player.

**hotsauceman1**

I thought Heavy Walkers cant be locked in combat?

**Peregrine**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
I thought Heavy Walkers cant be locked in combat?

That was in the old Apocalypse rules. That rule no longer exists, and superheavy walkers and GCs are locked in combat just like any other unit.

**AllSeeingSkink**

I think if GW is going down the path of big heavy things everywhere, they really need to bring out a larger version of the Carnifex to deal with super heavies. Something 300-400pts with a few attacks and strength D.

**hotsauceman1**

Even w/ infantry? I can understand MC and other walkers, but not infantry.

**BrianDavion**

the problem with infantry is it can be such a wide feild.

it can mean a 10 man guard squad, a 5 man elite titan hunter terminator squad, or a hoard of gaunts so big I could realisticly see even a titan having to hop around going "GET IT OFF! GET IT OFF!"

**AllSeeingSkink**

That would be a cool unit, super-heavy-hunting-gaunts. They scuttle all over the super heavy and find the weak points. Each model gets 1 attack against super heavies and on a penetrating roll of 6, it causes a glance. Or maybe just give them rending vs super heavies.

I just love the mental image of a titan striding along happily and then just getting swallowed by a swarm of scuttling little critters, lol.

**Peregrine**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Even w/ infantry? I can understand MC and other walkers, but not infantry.

Everything. The special rule is completely gone. Yes, it's stupid, but that's just how it is.

**sonofruss**

Oooh I know where some of my tax money is going

**Andrew1975**

So when are they going to admit that 40k is now just epic scale with bigger miniatures?

**jonolikespie**

Andrew1975 wrote:
So when are they going to admit that 40k is now just epic scale with bigger miniatures?

I don't know anyone who actually bought the escalation book but I was lead to believe it's in the fine print on the back

**endlesswaltz123**

Looking at the ion shield rules, and a FAQ is required already.

Only because of players being pedantic, it says 4++ save on one facing, yet says against ALL HITS, so you could argue it works against ST D ranged attacks. Now, I kow what it says about D in escalation but.... The words say all hits.

**Alabaster.clown**

Yodhrin wrote:

Of course if the preorder rumour is true and GW actually think they can charge £95 for a slightly bigger Dreadknight, well

Given how the current exchange rate has absolutely nothing to do with what we will have to pay for it, that would make it about NZ$400 here.

Go on, winge some more about how much it is going to cost.