'That guy' syndrome

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**BrianDavion**

I'm generally of the opinion that if EVERY game your in you have to bring out the rulebooks and FAQ repeatedly to justify your tactics you might be doing it wrong. (or your entire group COULD be clueless I suppose it's possiable)

No one likes a rules lawyer.

**sonicaucie**

Steve steveson wrote:
If your having to have a debate on rules in every game, to the point where staff are getting involved, you might want to question where the problem is... If allot of people are questioning something then, even if legal, it is probably not appropriate for pick up games.

Also, on a side note, you shouldn't be printing out rules and FAQs as a courtesy to your opponent, but as a matter of course. Every player should always have all the rules they need, including up to date FAQs, especially when playing pick up games.

The problem is probably in the necron codex. You can just field an army that will travel from one side to the other, shooting and assaulting. Or you can try and use the more speciailised combinations and tactics to maximise the effectiveness of the army.

So, generally when you inform a guy that your deathmarks now have Hit&Run, on top of relentless with their rapid fire sniper rifles, 4+ resurrection, re-roll of 2 d6, their reaction is "What? That can't be right". Cue pouring over the codex to try and find an entry that says it can't be done.

How about when I give stealth to my nightscythe from zhadrekh, move it flat out and therefore has a 2+ cover safe with a TD that gets triple hits on 6s so snap fire barely affects its effectiveness?

With the regulars, they expect me to pull things like this out of the codex. But with players I haven't played before, they'll generally want to debate every turn especially given how rare necrons are in this store.

**the shrouded lord**

A little off topic, but I tend to field tactical terminators. I don't think I will Ever be considered WAAC.

**Sonyca**

BrianDavion wrote:
I'm generally of the opinion that if EVERY game your in you have to bring out the rulebooks and FAQ repeatedly to justify your tactics you might be doing it wrong. (or your entire group COULD be clueless I suppose it's possiable)

No one likes a rules lawyer.

Well I disagree, like the OP said a lot of the time it's just people thinking things shouldn't be true, just because they managed to kill off their favorite squad or rendered a weapon ineffective they'll demand to see every single rule that went into the equation. Why should somebody give up a perfectly legitimate tactic that they enjoy just because their opponent gets a bit funny about it

**Skinnereal**

sonicaucie wrote:
As for dodgy rule interpretation, I believe it goes both ways. I've encountered players who have said "That's an interesting list/move" and shook hands after the game, but there are others who stop the game for 20 minutes while they run to the computer to try find an FAQ or a staff member to try and get him to rule against me.

That happened 2 days ago when I death rayed my own lychguard. It allows you to get more hits against a single target because they can reflect hits to an enemy 6" away on a 4+. I asked about its legality on this forum and the concensus was that it was legal, but more often than not I've had someone say "let's throw a dice and see who's right" when I'm showing him the rules from the codex and BRB which don't rule against it. This is not a "for fun" game although we are having fun, but a game where both players are running competitive lists.

Playing by the rules is part of a game, that has rules.
That 40k has SO MANY rules is the main problem.

We find rules that need checking every other week, and we get along fine. As I ready your Lychguard 'trick', it just feels off.
If you're playing against tourney gamers, go for it, but have it all printed out if you need to explain it that often.
Against 'normal' gamers, who may play in tournaments at times but aren't 'pro', it might be worth avoiding going in that hard.

If you prefer to play against pro-gamers, good luck finding that many. Most people are unlikely to appreciate a tactic like shooting yourself to get kills.

**Jidmah**

BaalSNAFU wrote:Exactly. I didn't agree with his competitive play style, he got booty hurt by my interpretation of TFG (remember people, we are arguing internet.semantics here) called me TFG etc..

Actually, you littery blanked-called a bunch of random people TFG, including me. Some one running into a store pointing at everyone who has a riptide on the table and yelling you're that fething guy is being exactly that. Now you continue calling names, which just reinforces that image of you, instead of taking a step back and admit that you were over-exaggerating.

I wholeheartedly agree that communication is essential. Find people who.enjoy the same kind.of game as you. I never said implied that there is anything wrong with competitive play. I think that is where some of the misinterpretations are coming from. Personally, I'd imagine that 8 or 9 times out of 10, if two people are at a LGS looking for 40k games and one of them whips out screemerstar or Quintuple-tide, the other guy isn't exactly going to be thrilled.

So, what makes him TFG? Bringing the army or slamming it on the table against someone who doesn't want to play that kind of game? Form your first post, simply bringing the army suffices. I disagree.

The Airman wrote:He's just the opposite; a reasonable player. And a reasonable player shouldn't expect to face tourney, FOTM lists in friendly games no matter the circumstances.

Why not? What makes that reasonable? This is just an imaginary honor-codex thing that some 40k players have made up and try to shove down everybody's throat. In every other game out there, there is no reason to expect people to play anything less than the best they can, neither in friendly nor in tournament games. In friendly games, poker players aren't ditching their pair of aces, check players don't stop using their queen and in monopoly no one is giving up the rent of a person which just hit their Boardwalk hotel. People do that sometimes, but literally no one expects them to.
Unless we're talking about role-play gaming, off course. But 40k is not an RPG, no matter how much GW claims it to be. For an RPG your would have to have stories available to play - 95% of all games you don't have that, no matter how friendly.

If you're squaring off against other, similar deathunit lists them sure you're fine. But if you go after the kid with foot slogging conscript-heavy IG, then you're the definition of TFG.

Most likely I'd tell him that he is not the kind of opponent I'm looking for. Even if I go play that kid to kill time (replace it with and army of footslogging BA terminators, and you've got a real kid from one of my stores), and for some reason am unable to change my list, I still wouldn't aim to table him turn two.
Just bringing and army or looking for a certain type of game, does not make you TFG. Crying out in pain at the very sight of a perceived overpowered list does.

It would be worse if you berating such players for not playing you, further solidifying your TFG status, but let's hope you're not that kind of person. One can only be so much TFG.

So, just to make sure, if you come up to me and ask me to play against your fluffy gretchin army, and I'm telling you "Sorry, I'm not looking for that kind of game.", I'm TFG?
And if I come up to you and ask for you to play against my wave serpent list, and you're telling me the same, you're not?

**BaalSNAFU**

Dude, you're comparing 40k to Monopoly and poker and I'm the one over exaggerating? I really don't know how to argue this kind of logic (if you can call it that).

For the record, there is a huge difference between 1 riptide and 4+ riptides . Apparently Jidmah doesn't understand this, but if someone shows up to 40k night at the LGS with 4 tides and a seer council on bikes, there's a pretty decent chance he's not looking for a sporting game. In my experience many guys like that (assuming they aren't there for a pre-arranged highly competitive game) are there to stroke their 40k ego, or to crush some poor sap who doesnt know better.

**sonicaucie**

BaalSNAFU wrote:
Dude, you're comparing 40k to Monopoly and poker and I'm the one over exaggerating? I really don't know how to argue this kind of logic (if you can call it that).

For the record, there is a huge difference between 1 riptide and 4+ riptides . Apparently Jidmah doesn't understand this, but if someone shows up to 40k night at the LGS with 4 tides and a seer council on bikes, there's a pretty decent chance he's not looking for a sporting game. My in my experience many guys like that (assuming they aren't there for a pre-arranged highly competitive game) are there to stroke their 40k ego, or to crush some poor sap who doesnt know better.

I.E me when I was learning the game and went up against his 4 riptide list.

That's why I got into reading the rules and special abilities of all my characters and units to see all the possible combinations and bought IA12 for the Dark Harvest codex.

I wanted to come up with an anti-riptide list which someone in this thread said I was TFG for doing so. In the process of doing so, I now pretty much know the necron and tau codex off by heart and thus I don't play against tau unless my opponent is a highly competitive tau player or is okay with the fact that I may just squash him.

**BaalSNAFU**

In which case I don't think that makes you TFG at all. Lets face it, riptides are good, really good. If you design a list to stomp a riptide centric list, chances are you can handle most other tau lists with little problem. Just because you know both codices and apply strategy accordingly doesn't mean you're TFG, it just means you know the game.

As for the rules conflicts; personally if it were me, in a friendly game, if it couldn't be solved by looking at the BRB or a codex entry for a minute or two, I'd use a different tactic, even uf it is actually legal. If only to keep it fun and minimize the complexity and time spent eyeballing the rules (Cthulu knows there's enough of that in 40k as is). That's what I would do.

**Silver_skates**

I think everyone will state that they are not TFG after reading my example of playing our TFG.

We are currently playing a casual Bloodbowl league and on one of our meets our commissioner added a few extra rewards to make the game more fun. The two in question that made this player TFG were "most casualties caused" and "most TDs scored". You got a "reward" for being the player to do this.

In his game against me, the TFG was causing casualties galore (5 in total). That's not too bad, it's a game & it happens. However, he would literally celebrate everytime he caused a casualty by standing up and cheering. (We've all been there. I cheered when my waveserpent survived a game with only one HP lost thanks to ridiculous cover saves. Love you OP waveserpent!!). After two though, it grew a little tiresome. Problem was he was so busy trying to cause casualties (& throwing in a little bit of cheating here and there to achieve it) that we drew the game 1-1. I really should have lost.

Then comes his second game. Luckily I'm playing another member & having a good time whilst doing it. The TFG was playing another player and having terrible luck which meant that he had taken three casualties. Before his opponent could score a TD, the TFG "rage-quitted". He claimed "there was no way he could finish the game with so little players" even though in the prior game I finished with only 5 players on the pitch and he had eight. He quit before his opponent (who was going for most TDs) could score. Afterwards he took his award for most casualties and joked about how well he played in the first game and left while all other players in the league complained about him.

I think you become TFG when people flat out say "I'm not playing that guy" and you ruin whatever campaign/league you have asked to be a part of. If you can't find a game but a person you think is TFG can, you are more than likely TFG.

**Chrysis**

sonicaucie wrote:

So, generally when you inform a guy that your deathmarks now have Hit&Run, on top of relentless with their rapid fire sniper rifles, 4+ resurrection, re-roll of 2 d6, their reaction is "What? That can't be right". Cue pouring over the codex to try and find an entry that says it can't be done.

Can you just run by me exactly what you're combining to get this combo?

From what I can figure out, it's Deathmarks + attached Phaeron Overlord (for Relentless) + 2x Eternity Crypteks for the Chronometron re-roll + Nemesor Zhandrekh somewhere on the table. But that combination can't deepstrike, which limits the utility of the Deathmarks somewhat. Unless Obyron is also attached to the unit, which is starting to get pretty pricy.

**techsoldaten**

I play at a FLGS. There's about 30 regulars who show up there, most of whom are in their 30s - 40s. Most of us have jobs and wives. There's also a larger group of people who show up occasionally for casual games. Most of them are younger and still learning the game.

We get our share of TFGs, some of whom are more challenging than others. This thread - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/571387.page - details one recent experience. We have all felt frustrated at the experience of playing against people like him.

For me, it gets into a question of why play 40k. Everyone has their own perspective on the game, what's fun about it, and someone's reasons for wanting to play can cover a lot of areas. For me, it's more important to respect the other player and understand where they are coming from than condemn them for being a jerk. As some other posters have stated, we have all been too rules conscious at one point or another. I realize that, if I come down too hard on anyone, it's going to shrink the potential pool of opponents and leave me with less variety in a hobby I enjoy. I may even be thought of as TFG, for other reasons.

The way I look at it, TFGs are useful to the point where they are contributing to a community I find satisfying. When I look at it that way, they cease to be annoyances and start to be useful participants. it's really a matter of understanding them and controlling when and where I deal with them. If I let myself get frustrated with their antics, it really means they are in control of a situation, not me, and that's something I need to do something about.

Looking back, I can remember some of the more extreme personalities I have met over the years. They are not around anymore. One thing I have learned is that TFGs never stay around very long, the reason they are arguing so much is that they don't really enjoy the game, this just fills some other role in their life.

Anyways, don't let TFGs get to you. They are there, they only matter to the point they make something you care about less enjoyable. Don't give them that power.

**Jidmah**

BaalSNAFU wrote:
Dude, you're comparing 40k to Monopoly and poker and I'm the one over exaggerating? I really don't know how to argue this kind of logic (if you can call it that).

What's the difference between Monopoly and 40k? Both are board games.

For the record, there is a huge difference between 1 riptide and 4+ riptides .

No there isn't. The guy with the one riptide can be a total donkey cave and unfun to play with. The guy who brought five riptides could realize that he vastly outmatches you try to test his tau close combat skills against your Blood Angel DoA army while neglecting shooting, so you can both have a laugh.

Apparently Jidmah doesn't understand this, but if someone shows up to 40k night at the LGS with 4 tides and a seer council on bikes, there's a pretty decent chance he's not looking for a sporting game.

Why not? Maybe he is looking for a guy who brought a screamer star or a necron crossaint of doom list to prepare for his next tournament.

In my experience many guys like that (assuming they aren't there for a pre-arranged highly competitive game) are there to stroke their 40k ego, or to crush some poor sap who doesnt know better.

Ah, there we go. That's a definition of TFG I can get behind. Someone who seeks to utterly crush his opponents or take advantage of inexperienced players. I can bring an ork army which can totally crush a "my first ultramarines" list, the ridicule the player and tell everyone how bad a player he is. Not riptides, serpents, seer councils or screamers involved.

**sonicaucie**

Chrysis wrote:
sonicaucie wrote:

So, generally when you inform a guy that your deathmarks now have Hit&Run, on top of relentless with their rapid fire sniper rifles, 4+ resurrection, re-roll of 2 d6, their reaction is "What? That can't be right". Cue pouring over the codex to try and find an entry that says it can't be done.

Can you just run by me exactly what you're combining to get this combo?

From what I can figure out, it's Deathmarks + attached Phaeron Overlord (for Relentless) + 2x Eternity Crypteks for the Chronometron re-roll + Nemesor Zhandrekh somewhere on the table. But that combination can't deepstrike, which limits the utility of the Deathmarks somewhat. Unless Obyron is also attached to the unit, which is starting to get pretty pricy.

It's very pricy. I stick them in a night scythe, but it can be a very effective unit so long as you're not alphaing squads that you'll be using as bulletshields.

**Chrysis**

I'm a little baffled. I mean, I don't see the point of giving them Relentless because it's not going to do anything unless you plan to charge with them. And you wouldn't be able to do that the turn you deploy them anyway. Likewise investing in at least one Eternity Cryptek to be able to Hit and Run semi-reliably due to their Initiative 2 seems like a big investment with minimal payoff.

I can certainly see that if the stars align and the dice all fall the right way it could be pretty nasty, but it looks to me like the odds aren't in it's favour enough to warrant the outlay of points.

**sonicaucie**

Chrysis wrote:
I'm a little baffled. I mean, I don't see the point of giving them Relentless because it's not going to do anything unless you plan to charge with them. And you wouldn't be able to do that the turn you deploy them anyway. Likewise investing in at least one Eternity Cryptek to be able to Hit and Run semi-reliably due to their Initiative 2 seems like a big investment with minimal payoff.

I can certainly see that if the stars align and the dice all fall the right way it could be pretty nasty, but it looks to me like the odds aren't in it's favour enough to warrant the outlay of points.

We should probably take this to tactics post I made when I was first fielding this unit. Generally the unit does quite well. There's 18 wounds protected by 2+ and 3++ saves with two rerolls and reanimation. Once you've survived the initial deployment your unit is almost guranteed safety in combat with opportunity to charge another unit 6+5d6 inches away while firing your sniper rifles. It's a very tough unit to kill if you let it get into combat.

**niv-mizzet**

sonicaucie wrote:

As for dodgy rule interpretation, I believe it goes both ways. I've encountered players who have said "That's an interesting list/move" and shook hands after the game, but there are others who stop the game for 20 minutes while they run to the computer to try find an FAQ or a staff member to try and get him to rule against me.

That happened 2 days ago when I death rayed my own lychguard. It allows you to get more hits against a single target because they can reflect hits to an enemy 6" away on a 4+. I asked about its legality on this forum and the concensus was that it was legal, but more often than not I've had someone say "let's throw a dice and see who's right" when I'm showing him the rules from the codex and BRB which don't rule against it. This is not a "for fun" game although we are having fun, but a game where both players are running competitive lists.

Overall, I've made some mistakes since I started the hobby and regularly admit when I've been wrong, but I've also had some cheating done to me before.

The last time I played the tau player, before I came up with the anti-riptide list, I was like 2 months into the hobby whereas he had been playing for years. But he'd fire all his ion accelerators overcharged in one go during interceptor and then fire again in the shooting phase but I didn't have the knowledge to call him out on it back then.

By "one go" I mean, he fired an ion accelerator, saw if it scattered, then fired the next one before rolling for any results.

This means that if say half the squad died after the first one you're getting double the hits on the second, 4 times the hits on the third, 8 times the hits on the fourth, ect...

He made the same mistake again during our last battle, to which I said that if he fires the second accelerator before rolling for the result he'll lose the chance to roll for his SMS and lose the shot from the first one. He naturally disagreed, but eventually conceded that I was correct after calling a staff member over after I read him the rules on interceptor and the shooting sequence.

This was a rant thread because I like to play the game for fun and competitively, but more and more I've been growing tired of having to have a rule debate every time I have a session with someone I haven't played before. The staff are getting tired of it and asked me to start printing out the FAQs and keeping a note of the rules which I was doing as a courtesy to my opponent anyway. And, in a way, I've became TFG in the shop when I know that I probably understand the tau codex more than the two competitive tau players who now refuse to play me.

Yep, it sounds like you started a victim, then became part of the problem. TFG disease, if untreated, can be contagious.

Here's some tips to deal with the symptoms:

-Have fun discussions about hilarious rules loopholes, such as shooting your own lychguard, but DON'T ACTUALLY USE THEM. If you had to start a thread on YMDC to figure out if you could do it in a game, the answer is "you probably just shouldn't."

-Metaphorically, bring your power axe to the ap2 fight, and your chainsword to the others. Play the fluffy guys with varied lists trying out units in the usual friendly manner. Keep spamming low or non-existent, don't rely on strange rulings or anything you have to hand them more than an army list or VERY SIMPLE FAQ for. When one of the other "infected" TFG players targets you as a potential easy curb stomp for his ego boost and asks for a game, ask him if he's bringing casual or competitive to the table. Mention in addition, that you consider say...multiple riptides, re-rollable saves on deathstar units and other such malarky as competitive tier, and if you see any of it during deployment, you're going out to your car to grab your own competitive "WAAC" list.

-When playing the fluffy players, and I know this may be hard, but...LOSE. No one is keeping a record of your win/loss at your little store, nor would the world at large care. Try going for the "cool play" instead of the "slow and steady wins the race" play. When other TFG's see you and your opponent having fun week after week, and start wondering if they're doing something wrong, maybe, just maybe, they'll start looking inwards. Odds are low with that type, but anyone can roll a 6+ invulnerable personality save! Maybe at the least, they'll come here and start a thread to get advice.

**AllSeeingSkink**

If you're posting in this thread, you're probably TFG.

Dammit, why did I just post

**Art_of_war**

techsoldaten wrote:

For me, it gets into a question of why play 40k. Everyone has their own perspective on the game, what's fun about it, and someone's reasons for wanting to play can cover a lot of areas. For me, it's more important to respect the other player and understand where they are coming from than condemn them for being a jerk. As some other posters have stated, we have all been too rules conscious at one point or another. I realize that, if I come down too hard on anyone, it's going to shrink the potential pool of opponents and leave me with less variety in a hobby I enjoy. I may even be thought of as TFG, for other reasons.

I'm having an issue along these lines. I started with 40k and will probably end my days with some of it around me, but currently its beginning to suck due to the rules being blown out of the water by warmahordes (note this is my opinion), the last 40k game descended into the good old 'you know where this is going' mode and I conceded in the end as it was boring as hell.

This is relevant as 40k can be abused legally by TFGs whenever they appear, yet there has never been a code of conduct unlike the current version of warmahordes and its famous page 5. That is what makes the game very good, you can bring the cheese but your enemy probably has a combo or 2 of their own to play as well.

But I digress....

**Martel732**

This discussion brought to you by GW's horrible codex balancing. And the letters "T", "F", and "G".

**SRSFACE**

Jidmah wrote:
BaalSNAFU wrote:
Dude, you're comparing 40k to Monopoly and poker and I'm the one over exaggerating? I really don't know how to argue this kind of logic (if you can call it that).

What's the difference between Monopoly and 40k? Both are board games.

Really, dude? Really?

...Really?

What's the difference between the Holy Bible and Harry Potter? They are both just books.
What's the difference between George W. Bush and Bill Clinton? They were both just presidents.
What's the difference between the Earth and Mars? They are both just planets.
What's the difference between The Beatles and Miley Cyrus? They are both just musical acts.

**AllSeeingSkink**

Martel732 wrote:
This discussion brought to you by GW's horrible codex balancing. And the letters "T", "F", and "G".

At the end of the day, that's the problem. If the rules weren't so damned convoluted and the codices so damned unbalanced, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

**Bharring**

And this is why there is a problem. Clearly, the letter 'g' should be erratta'd out of the alphabet. That's a change we could all get behind.

**melkorthetonedeaf**

TFG to me:

This kid's ability to have fun is entirely based on making others feel inferior. Competition is not a question. He must win, and he doesn't like to try or gamble. Lose to him and hear about it forever. Beat him and watch him flip back and forth through every rulebook his parents bought him until he finds something proving him right. Every game is a tournament game, unless he doesn't advance to the next round, in which case your stuff is broken OP trollcheese.

I think this is a matter of personality types really. When someone points out rules to me, I'm usually really happy to learn and it's sometimes fun to discuss the murkier ones and come to a consensus rather than flipping a coin or flipping off each other. Someone playing a Riptide isn't "that guy" either. Someone playing 5 is also not. That guy plays 5 Riptides SOLELY because the internet (or a palantir, what-have-you) told him it would work and he doesn't mind having his opinions formed for him so long as he can feel he has accomplished something by tabling you turn two.

**Asmodai Asmodean**

Jeez, the regular Dakka TFG discussion-fest where everyone gets heated about what their opinion of TFG is or isn't.

Ultimately, everyone's behaviour changes from opponent to opponent. Some people have personality clashes. Some people disagree. Others get along.

OP, your problem sounds like you're playing in a GW store. Try to find an independent gaming club with like-minded players; If you like exploring the boundaries of the ruleset and playing competitively, go to tournaments. I guarantee you'll find a lot of like-minded, competitive players who don't whine about the ruleset. Cultivate these friendships. Play with people who enjoy playing competitively.

**Savageconvoy**

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
At the end of the day, that's the problem. If the rules weren't so damned convoluted and the codices so damned unbalanced, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I really don't think that'd fix the issue. Even in games with balance, TFG always finds a way to ruin things.

An unbalanced ruleset just masks the issue. In an RPG you can easily spot TFG because of the tell tale signs. In 40K it's difficult because someone using a "competitive" list doesn't just make them a TFG. It's the experience of being around them. TFG will jump armies and use the quad-Riptide list to abuse the system and get cheap wins. They'll do it with every new army, which is why people generally complain about the latest, greatest meta destroying release. I've seen our local TFG jump from vendetta spam, then to Tervigon spam after he couldn't outflank them anymore, then to Screamerstar, then to IG armored companies because Riptides do fairly bad against BeastHunter shells. It's not the army he's using, it's because TFG will always be TFG.

For example, I was in a simple 1850 point tournament in my FLGS. I had two Riptides and a buffcommander, with one riptide taking the HBC. Before I even unpack my things, this Nid player is talking about how bad Tau is and how much they are broken. Made me feel like crap right when I unpack my Riptides. He even points at me and says "Oh, there's one now." It didn't help when he went on to complain about Eldar allies right when I'm unpacking my freshly painted Wriathguard that I'm finally getting to field. He of course makes a comment to his friend under his breath.

Facing off against a Nid player in Vanguard and some objective mission. Victory points count towards 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place tie breaking.
During deployment I ask about his units just cause I'd never seen them before, I rarely saw nids and this is before the codex drop. He did nothing but complain about my army before the rounds started, so I thought he was familiar it and just named off the units I had. I seize the initiative and gun down a swarmlord turn one with a lucky HBC salvo of rending shots. Guy immediately starts asking what I just did, and I had to start showing him every bit of wargear in my codex to explain what just happened. Guy drops out of the tournament right then and there, saying about how broken Tau is and how he won't support a game with that kind of brokeness.
See, in that situation I don't think I'm being TFG. I don't try to make someone feel like crud for bringing a competitive list to a competitive game. I didn't blame a person for the game being unbalanced, or at least make them feel that way. I also never judge a person based on their army, but on how they play it and treat the opponent.

**Jidmah**

SRSFACE wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
BaalSNAFU wrote:
Dude, you're comparing 40k to Monopoly and poker and I'm the one over exaggerating? I really don't know how to argue this kind of logic (if you can call it that).

What's the difference between Monopoly and 40k? Both are board games.
Really, dude? Really?

...Really?

What's the difference between the Holy Bible and Harry Potter? They are both just books.
What's the difference between George W. Bush and Bill Clinton? They were both just presidents.
What's the difference between the Earth and Mars? They are both just planets.
What's the difference between The Beatles and Miley Cyrus? They are both just musical acts.

Yes, both the Holy Bible and Harry Potter are just books. Unless you dedicate yourself to one or the other, none have any impact on your life other than taking up a couple of days to read.
Yes, if you aren't following politics or just don't care about another nation's commander in chief, Gorge W. Bush and Bill Clinton are just politicians who represented the United States of America. Heck, I doubt the majority of Germans even know that there was more than one George W. Bush in office.
Yes, Earth and Mars are both just planets. We have humans on one and some funky little toy cars on the other. Both still orbit the sun, both have at least one huge chunk of rock orbiting them at more or less the same distance and both would probably be a mess if they are hit by an astroid roughly one thenth their size.
Yes, both have recorded music and I listen to neither. We don't know if Miley Cyrus has an impact music history yet. Also, both are largely irrelevant to deaf people.

Hey, you know what? You are TFG. This is exactly what makes one up. Insulting people, dodging arguments, acting up when called out on it, and refusing to admit that you were wrong.
I didn't realize you were setting an example for the op. Well done, you're a genius.

**Paimon**

niv-mizzet wrote:

-When playing the fluffy players, and I know this may be hard, but...LOSE. No one is keeping a record of your win/loss at your little store, nor would the world at large care. Try going for the "cool play" instead of the "slow and steady wins the race" play.

If someone lost to me on purpose, I'd be rather annoyed with them. I don't play to win, I play to compete. Fun, fluffy list or not. If we're playing a fluffy game I'm still going to squeeze as much tactical advantage as possible out of sub-par units, throwing the game isn't satisfying for anyone, and would be insulting to me.

**sonicaucie**

melkorthetonedeaf wrote:
TFG to me:

I think this is a matter of personality types really. When someone points out rules to me, I'm usually really happy to learn and it's sometimes fun to discuss the murkier ones and come to a consensus rather than flipping a coin or flipping off each other. Someone playing a Riptide isn't "that guy" either. Someone playing 5 is also not. That guy plays 5 Riptides SOLELY because the internet (or a palantir, what-have-you) told him it would work and he doesn't mind having his opinions formed for him so long as he can feel he has accomplished something by tabling you turn two.

I don't think because someone wants to field 5 riptides that they're "that guy". A bit boring, maybe. But I only find people guilty of being that guy when you do stuff like regularly challenge new players and table them in 3 turns.

But rather than whine about it, I decided I'd build myself an army that could table him with ease by exploiting the weaknesses in his list and with Dark Harvest in IA12, I found a method of reliably doing that. In the end I've merely exposed that his army is flawed now and I'll probably expect to see him next week fielding taudar or something. So, you can probably guess what I'm doing now. But I enjoy this level of meta play in a way.

**Savageconvoy**

Wait. So did you build a list for the sole purpose of beating his list or did you build a TAC list that is capable of dealing with a lot of high T and 2+ saves?