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I am looking to tweak some of the rules for 6th edition to make the game a bit more enjoyable for me and my friends. We have talked about it and we agree that we should change some things in the main rule book, but they also want to change codex specific rules.

So far we have discussed changing small things like the rules of power weapons, for example we are thinking of giving power swords rending so that HQ units that are stuck with power swords have some chance against 2+ armour saves. We are also thinking about removing unwieldy from power axes and giving -1 or -2 to initiative instead.

We also think Furious Charge should have the +1 initiative again.

We are going to allow charges out of stationary vehicles, and we are considering changing the random charge distance in some way to remove some of the randomness, any ideas???

So far the changes we have discussed are about the the rule book and close combat. But my friends are insisting on changing Tau markerlights because they think they are overpowered. Me being a tau player I don't like this and I think we should leave codex rules alone. But they have suggested changing to the previous codex rules for the so that removing cover becomes more difficult. Do you agree with this from a rules standpoint? (Not a I don't like tau standpoint)

On that note about markerlights, they also want to make it that snap shots can never be modified or at the least capped to only allowing them to be improved to a 5+ max. This idea is sparked because tau can modify a snap shot to be hitting on 2's, even in overwatch.

Ok now the real point of this thread, can you guys think of rules that could be changed to make the game more enjoyable??? For both close combat armies and ranged armies? Feel free to mention any rules from either the rule book or a codex/supplement.

Power weapons return to straight up Ignores Armour, slash the revised power weapons in 6e. Rerolls of saves can't succeed on anything better than a 4+. Improve access to anti-aircraft weapons, allow more things to buy Skyfire and potentially allow people with missile launchers to trade one ammo type for AA missiles instead of having to pay extra to have three profiles. Tweak/revise the points costs for about three quarters of everything up or down. Permit disordered charges after Deep Striking and out of vehicles.

These are the biggest fast patches I can think of, though I really do think some elements of the rules need to be rewritten from the ground up.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Power weapons return to straight up Ignores Armour, slash the revised power weapons in 6e. Rerolls of saves can't succeed on anything better than a 4+. Improve access to anti-aircraft weapons, allow more things to buy Skyfire and potentially allow people with missile launchers to trade one ammo type for AA missiles instead of having to pay extra to have three profiles. Tweak/revise the points costs for about three quarters of everything up or down. Permit disordered charges after Deep Striking and out of vehicles.

These are the biggest fast patches I can think of, though I really do think some elements of the rules need to be rewritten from the ground up.

Having all power weapons ignore are is a terrible idea in my opinion. How many people do you see using termies? Not that many, huh? That's because even WITH this buff to their survivability they are still to easy to torrent down, making power weapons being AP 3 just makes sense to try breath some live into an iconic unit. An IG Sargent with a battery in his sword shouldn't be able to slice through a walking tank like a terminator like hot butter. For rending power swords I would disagree, how about you make a new power weapon and give that rending? For example how about a power dagger, AP 4 base but has rending, Rending on a 5+ if he has two. Re-rolling saves I admit should be on a 4+. Revising point costs isn't really what people want to do because it is far fairer to change base rules that effect everyone rather then just pick on one race. As to the original I would generally agree with all you said, but I would swap the ignores cover rule for a different rule called scour. Scour (X) where X is the amount a cover save is reduced by, all templates have Scour (5) while markerlights might have each markerlight Scour (1)

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Power weapons return to straight up Ignores Armour, slash the revised power weapons in 6e. Rerolls of saves can't succeed on anything better than a 4+. Improve access to anti-aircraft weapons, allow more things to buy Skyfire and potentially allow people with missile launchers to trade one ammo type for AA missiles instead of having to pay extra to have three profiles. Tweak/revise the points costs for about three quarters of everything up or down. Permit disordered charges after Deep Striking and out of vehicles.

These are the biggest fast patches I can think of, though I really do think some elements of the rules need to be rewritten from the ground up.

Having all power weapons ignore are is a terrible idea in my opinion. How many people do you see using termies? Not that many, huh? That's because even WITH this buff to their survivability they are still to easy to torrent down, making power weapons being AP 3 just makes sense to try breath some live into an iconic unit. An IG Sargent with a battery in his sword shouldn't be able to slice through a walking tank like a terminator like hot butter. For rending power swords I would disagree, how about you make a new power weapon and give that rending? For example how about a power dagger, AP 4 base but has rending, Rending on a 5+ if he has two. Re-rolling saves I admit should be on a 4+. Revising point costs isn't really what people want to do because it is far fairer to change base rules that effect everyone rather then just pick on one race. As to the original I would generally agree with all you said, but I would swap the ignores cover rule for a different rule called scour. Scour (X) where X is the amount a cover save is reduced by, all templates have Scour (5) while markerlights might have each markerlight Scour (1)

Terminators managed to survive as a useable unit for at least three editions of power weapons as straight Ignores Armour weapons (I'm not sure about 1st or 2nd), mind.

3 editions ago we didn't have Taudar or Eldau...

I kind of like power weapons having different profiles, but I think it needs to be dramatically tweaked because their relative power to each other despite the same points cost is huge. Power Mauls are clearly the best ones, power axes are only good on honor guard and chaos terminators, and power swords are hot garbage. If they were 10 points per while the others remained 15, I think I'd be okay with that.

How about Power Swords confer a -1 penalty to saving throws? Would help slightly against Sv2+ guys and would make power swords the best option against Sv 3+ guys as it'd hurt their invulnerable saves should you beat the armor.

About charging distances:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576961.page

Most people would like to see it a fixed or semi-fixed value. 7' or 3-4'+d6.

Also, i'd really like to unsee a challenge system as it is. Maybe not totally remove it but not make it as illogically punishing. I don't think that it's appropriate for, say, Abbaddon to waste his time fighting in 5 'challenges' in a row vs a 50-strong guard squad with sergeants. Abbaddon will just plain kill every single man no matter if he's a sergeant or a simple trooper. What'd be more appropriate is to give something like Hatred or +1 attack for a model that issued a challenge and had it denied. Like he's totally RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGING.

And imo assault nades should deny overwatch. They actually work like this irl. Don't know how's that gona influence ballance, probably not worth applying.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
3 editions ago we didn't have Taudar or Eldau...

No, we had Lashspam, Iron Warriors, Seer Councils sillier than the ones today, and the like. Honestly the biggest problem with bringing power weapons back to Ignores Armour status would be on Grey Knights, Tau don't have any at all barring Farsight and the Eldar have isolated squad leader weapons until you get to Banshees, which have been overpriced, ineffective, and impossible to get into close combat as long as I've been playing the game.

When Terminators are running with Strikes Last weapons and every close combat weapon that can reliably hurt them is also Strikes Last it does get a little messy; the current edition's emphasis on shooting (especially with the existence of AP2 blast and flamer templates, which are far easier to get than they've got any right to be) is also a much bigger issue for Terminators than overly-strong power weapons.

Actually, 5-th ed was full of assault termies just cause they had so much needed 3++. That was exactly an 'ignore armor' rule of power weapons that screwed up regular termies. I don't think power weapons on the whole need to be improved. What are you gona do with power lances and mauls? And axes must go last. It's essencial for ballance. Now you might want to add rending for lightning claws either for a slight point increase or simply if you use a pair of lightning claws. Rending for swords will make them much better than power lances and more preferable than power mauls and even axes sometimes.

We are trying to implement charging from deepstrike, so far we have you can either shoot or charge as if you were charging through difficult terrain. At first I thought that was a good idea, but now I think it might be a bit broken.

 koooaei wrote:

Also, i'd really like to unsee a challenge system as it is. Maybe not totally remove it but not make it as illogically punishing. I don't think that it's appropriate for, say, Abbaddon to waste his time fighting in 5 'challenges' in a row vs a 50-strong guard squad with sergeants. Abbaddon will just plain kill every single man no matter if he's a sergeant or a simple trooper. What'd be more appropriate is to give something like Hatred or +1 attack for a model that issued a challenge and had it denied. Like he's totally RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGING.

I really like this.

Another idea is models can only issue challenges to similar ranking models. I get this would be messy and up to the players to determine what is what, but for the most part the flowchart could be HQ -> single model entities with characters trait -> Elites FOC characters -> any other character. Issuing and accepting challenges would work like it currently does with the additional rules guys higher on the flowchart cannot have their issues denied, nor do they suffer penalties for denying challenges with things lower down on the leadership tier list.

Just have leftover wounds spill over to the unit.

That way a plucky lieutenant can still shield his comrades a bit by way of a better WS or save, but once he's dead, the big baddie will just sweep the rest instead of senselessly beating on the dead corpse for the rest of the turn while everyone else just watches.

The problem isn't with Tau and Markerlights. The problem is with standard rulebook missions allowing Tau to sit back and make gunlines from static Broadsides and Riptides with markerlight support.

Change the missions so you have to push up the field to cap objectives and suddenly Tau are forced to change up their lists for more versatility and less firepower. See this thread for ideas: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/579688.page

I like the idea for charges being allowed from stationary vehicles. A good way of not getting rid of the advantage of assault ramps but helping out standard transports a bit.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Just have leftover wounds spill over to the unit.

That way a plucky lieutenant can still shield his comrades a bit by way of a better WS or save, but once he's dead, the big baddie will just sweep the rest instead of senselessly beating on the dead corpse for the rest of the turn while everyone else just watches.

I agree with this. Why would my chaos lord with the axe of blind fury constantly batter a marine sergeant's corpse when his buddies are there to be chopped up?

 IXLoiero95XI wrote:
I am looking to tweak some of the rules for 6th edition to make the game a bit more enjoyable for me and my friends. We have talked about it and we agree that we should change some things in the main rule book, but they also want to change codex specific rules.

So far we have discussed changing small things like the rules of power weapons, for example we are thinking of giving power swords rending so that HQ units that are stuck with power swords have some chance against 2+ armour saves. We are also thinking about removing unwieldy from power axes and giving -1 or -2 to initiative instead.

We also think Furious Charge should have the +1 initiative again.

We are going to allow charges out of stationary vehicles, and we are considering changing the random charge distance in some way to remove some of the randomness, any ideas???

So far the changes we have discussed are about the the rule book and close combat. But my friends are insisting on changing Tau markerlights because they think they are overpowered. Me being a tau player I don't like this and I think we should leave codex rules alone. But they have suggested changing to the previous codex rules for the so that removing cover becomes more difficult. Do you agree with this from a rules standpoint? (Not a I don't like tau standpoint)

On that note about markerlights, they also want to make it that snap shots can never be modified or at the least capped to only allowing them to be improved to a 5+ max. This idea is sparked because tau can modify a snap shot to be hitting on 2's, even in overwatch.

Ok now the real point of this thread, can you guys think of rules that could be changed to make the game more enjoyable??? For both close combat armies and ranged armies? Feel free to mention any rules from either the rule book or a codex/supplement.

Yes on furious charge. Must unnecessary nerf in the game.
Yes to charging from stationary vehicles.
charge distance 6+d6. 2d6 if a disordered charge. add a d6 and drop the high one for terrain in both situations.
If you would normally be unable to charge, for such reasons as infiltrate, disembarking from a moving vehicle, deep strike etc, you may make a disordered charge. If you do so, any overwatch shots at the charging unit are at full BS.
Using overwatch stops you from firing on your next shooting phase. Doesn't change anything if they made it to combat, but risky if you think they might not.
Half init (rounded up) on power axes would work pretty well. Call the rule "slightly unwieldy" and only apply it to power axes, not any of the Sx2 claws/fists.
Offer any pre 6th ed. special character the option to pick his power weapon's ruleset. IE Mephiston could declare he has a force axe instead of a sword etc.
Markerlights go back to removing cover 1 point at a time.
The only other change I would ever consider to markerlights is making them not count as a shooting attack for the purposes of grounding FMC's.

Other rules:
Challenges:
winning a challenge or having an opponent decline gives you +1 combat result, and makes your unit stubborn for the round (just in case you still lose.)
At the start of combat for later turns, a challenge participant may leave a challenge duel exactly as if he declined. Replace his model with a model from his unit within 6". This applies the same effect as declining a challenge.
You may only challenge once, at the start of the combat, regardless of how many rounds the combat goes. Even for late joiners, the melee gets to hectic to get your insults across to the other character.
Characters who are alone and challenged may accept the challenge, or just fight the entire enemy unit at once with no penalty.
Note that in this rendition of the rules, no models forfeit their attacks for a challenge decision.

Fear:
ATSKNF units may reroll failed fear tests, but are not immune. Seriously, half the game is immune to this ability.

Psychic powers:
It would take me a long time to fix the jumbled mess they made with powers. Some are warp charge 2, miss a lot, and allow deny the witch then saves. (aka suck out loud.) Some are warp charge 1 and way too good, and don't allow your opponent any response.

I think all psykers should have an "always known" "dispel blessing" power, that in itself is a WC1 malediction at 24".

Saves:
same old song here. a rerolled save always fails on 1-3.

Sweeping advance:
You may only eliminate 1 model for each attack (base, +1 if using 2 ccws) you have left in your unit during a sweeping advance, after which the survivors flee successfully. EG 3 tactical marines sweeping a unit of fire warriors would auto-kill 3, then the others would retreat as normal.

Vehicles all have +1 hull point from their listed entry. Any vehicle that had full hull points before being penetrated applies a -1 to the vehicle damage chart. This ability only applies to the first penetrate roll, even if multiple penetrates ocurred simultaneously.

Snap shots apply a -2 BS, instead of always being at BS1.

Jump and jetpack units who have used their pack in the movement phase may choose to have skyfire on their ranged weapons in the immediately following shooting phase.

During army creation, your army's selected warlord may purchase the eternal warrior rule for 40 points.

Warlord traits: select the trait of your choice during army creation.

Allies: battle brothers are allies of convenience. No hitting allies with buff powers, or joining their units with IC's.

You have one dataslate FOC slot. If it is not a unit that is normally or thematically part of your codex, it takes up your ally slot in addition.

Super-heavies cannot be affected by blessings, maledictions, or any other part of a psychic power except for strictly the rolling to hit and wound section of the power.

Army balance:

To represent just how much harder to kill a standard marine is supposed to be than other races, even with heavy weapons, a roll to wound any marine or chaos marine always fails on a 2, as well as a 1.

Terminator armor is 1+/5++. Note that a 1 always fails.

Orks standard (6+) armor is removed. All orks gain FNP (6+) (ork models only, not gretchin etc.)

Riptides cost 50 points more, and may not be joined by IC's. Helldrakes baleflamer loses torrent and may only fire from front arc. (Some additional buffing is needed in the chaos marine book.) Serpent shield range is 24" and loses the ignores cover that it had for some ungodly reason. Additionally, any glance while the shield is down turns into a penetrate on a 2+.

Tyranids gain preferred enemy against one enemy army of their choice at the beginning of their 3rd turn.

I think that about does it for the page ripping I would do if I got ahold of "rulebook prime." Aside from some chaos marine recosting, and a few select units here and there in others, like flashgitz.