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 Therion wrote:
The Primarchs were never politicians or leaders of humanity.

Except Guilliman did exactly that...

The problem is the Primarchs knew the Emperor, and knew what he wanted (or at least what he told them he wanted)

The Empire they would return to is NOT what they left and not what the Emperor wanted so I think they'd almost be forced to take over in order to set things to rights

now whether they could work together in this? probably some could (or at least delay arguments with bolters) but I'd lay favourable odds that at least some would not be able to wait and you'd end up with a Todays Imperium vs Marine Chaper(s) working to fix things vs Marine Chapter(s) working to fix things differently

decker_cky wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
And that's why it's a problem. I like 40K as a setting, I'm not interested in playing Warhammer 41K. There are 10,000 years of history to play in, almost none of it detailed extensively, and now the Primarch fetishists have the whole Heresy series on top of that. The only reasons to want to advance the storyline are because you're bored of 999.M41 in which case you have nobody to blame but yourself given the previous sentence, or because you don't like 40K as it exists in which case why are you playing it at all now there are half a dozen viable and widely played alternative games out there?

Hasn't 40k as a setting been in the last 10 years of the millenium pretty much forever? Some books happen earlier and stuff, but at least for the past four editions, it's been in the verge of the 13th Black Crusade, or during it for a very short period.

No, the majority of GW's official material for the game has been set in late M41 for pretty much forever, the setting itself is completely available to players, if they can muster the initiative to actually utilise it. When my old group of gaming buddies all lived in proximity and we got together every other week, we ran Inquisitor campaigns set during Vandire's Reign of Blood, 40K campaigns set during the Great Crusade and The Scouring, we'd pick a time period and put together the details of some random subsector then play a campaign set in it and limit our unit choices accordingly. My current 40K projects are all interconnected by a storyline that spans four millennia with most of the convergence happening in the 7th century M40.

You're only limited to the very end of M41 if you choose to be.

I think it could be interesting if Guilliman reacted with horror to the state of the Imperium.

Otherwise it's just for the sake of

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Therion wrote:
The Primarchs were never politicians or leaders of humanity.

Except Guilliman did exactly that...

Just like Marneus Calgar or any of the previous masters of Macragge. Basically there's no meaningful difference.

Don't you think there might be a little trouble when the Primachs want their Legions back? Only to be told, "Sorry, just 1000 warriors per leader. Next!"

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Don't you think there might be a little trouble when the Primachs want their Legions back? Only to be told, "Sorry, just 1000 warriors per leader. Next!"

The Primarchs were still around when the Legions were broken into chapters. It was their idea.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Don't you think there might be a little trouble when the Primachs want their Legions back? Only to be told, "Sorry, just 1000 warriors per leader. Next!"

More reason why it would be a good way to advance the meta and shake things up. If Guilliman returned, what if the Ultramarine successor chapters all decided to serve under him like the legions of old (each chapter being a different part of the Legion, so they retain some autonomy)? Guilliman broke the legions up into chapters (it was mostly his idea, and he nearly started a civil war with Rogal Dorn over it because Dorn didn't want to lose his legion, but finally relented because it would have destroyed the Imperium) but seeing how the Imperium has become what if he changed his mind?

Honestly I think the Ultramarines and their successors should play out like in the fanfiction alternate history "Dornian Heresy" (alternate universe where most of the now-loyal chapters turned traitor and most of the now-traitor legions stayed loyal, with Dorn betraying instead of Horus), where they basically declared Ultramar as independent from the Imperium.

GW has probably learned a lot from the HH series. They are most definitely having discussions about what's next... you know, after they've milked all they can from HH models and books etc. Advancing the story isn't out of the question if they can sell new models and books.

The Primarchs returning would only "rejuvenate" the Imperium in a "just in time to save it from utter destruction" sense, likely to cancel out the daemon primarchs (who actually ARE canonically taking a much larger role with the advent of the 13th Black Crusade)

At most, the loyalist primarhs returning will likely cancel out the Daemon Primarchs coming to the forefront. Thus GW would have a way of advancing the setting without changing it at all.

I doubt there'll be a civil war either. Roboute was the one who set up the High Lords of Terra in the first place. He isn't going to demand to take charge and tear down that system when he was the one that created it (not unless he's a big giant hypocrite). At most, he MIGHT ask for his Master of the Administratum position back, but he probably won't cause he'll probably come back just as the Imperium is buried under a tide of Black Crusading Chaos marines and be'll be too busy sending power fists into Chaos Space Marine stomach to take back his Administratum seat.

Rogal Dom was with the Imperium the longest after the Heresy and if he didn't start a civil war about what it was becoming then, I doubt he'll start now. If anything, he's already shown that should a civil war threaten to break out, he'll do whatever he can to stop it, even if it means surrendering his own opinion (after all, he stopped opposing the Codex Astartes when civil war threatened to break out)

Leman Russ, Vulkan, Jaghatai, Sanguinus (though even the Blood Angels are sure he won't be back), and Ferrus Manus (yea, some Fists think he'll come back, those silly guys) never wanted to lead the Imperium in the first place. Only the Lion really had any ambition to do so (well, to be Warmaster, at least). The Lion is stated to wake when the Emperor calls and I doubt Emps will call the Lion if Emps thinks he'll start a civil war (unless Emps WANTS a civil war, of course).

I'm happier if Primarchs stay FW. FW is better at making good looking models and something as awesome and unique as a Primarch, I trust FW far more than I trust GW.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'm happier if Primarchs stay FW. FW is better at making good looking models and something as awesome and unique as a Primarch, I trust FW far more than I trust GW.

That may be a distinction without a difference shortly.
Can't imagine them making a primarch plastic kit. (Magnetize to swap between Horus and Leman Russ on the fly!)
So then it really has to be resin. I think GW could be on the cusp of something pretty cool whether it involves Primarchs or not. I don't think they understand what a big hole not having a skirmish game in their lineup leaves, especially as 40k gets bigger and bigger in scope.

Adding the Primarchs to the main game is something GW can do to have a boost in sales to stabilize their financial report.s Short-term sporadic gains with long-term negative effects is the name of the game for GW

It'll happen, and probably soon.

What's the long term negative effect exactly?
Are you concerned about the narrative direction or gameplay?

I think 40k has sorely needed a narrative direction for far, far too long. It seems the tone of the fluff in the 6E imperium books so far that the veil is being peeled further and further back on the fates of the Primarchs, and the possibilities of their returns in a more concrete way rather than simple hushed legends.

There's no real reason they couldn't bring Primachs back, Forge World is producing models for some of them, at least the ones from the Chaos Legions.

No reason they can't or won't bring back the others. At least the ones we know for sure aren't dead.

TiamatRoar wrote:


Rogal Dom was with the Imperium the longest after the Heresy and if he didn't start a civil war about what it was becoming then, I doubt he'll start now. If anything, he's already shown that should a civil war threaten to break out, he'll do whatever he can to stop it, even if it means surrendering his own opinion (after all, he stopped opposing the Codex Astartes when civil war threatened to break out)

Dorn is most certainly dead and buried, at least f they haven't retconned it in the new Heresy books that I haven't read.

Why.. is this in news and rumors? This entire thread is because of misreading a random little blurb in the current WD issue. There are tons of threads about primarchs in general 40k..

Seriously.. the article in question was simply GW employees talking about "mysteries" in the universe.. the sentence says "As for Gulliman, Glenn is adamant that the Ultramarines Primarch is in fact healing from his fatal wounds....Nobody is willing to mock him too hard, because we rather like that idea".

It's clearly just some guy named Glenn musing over possible scenarios. It's not news, it's just conversation between players. Then again people post threads when a single page on the GW webpage doesn't work.

Is Dorn actually dead? Current fluff have the fists finding his uh... skeletal fist and thats it. They retconned the old stuff where they found his skeleton (?).

The 40k mythos essentially has all the primarchs ready to go for the end times. Most of them have some legend about their return. Its part of the mystery that fires the imagination that attracted so many of us to 40k in the first place.

I think primarch returns are a mistake as it would shatter that mystery. It would also mean the end times are on and that GW would need to craft a fitting end narrative to their setting which is problematic...

Ps. isnt one of the primarchs in a dark eldar prison and another in the necron collector dudes museum?
Pps. i agree that this is probably just a chat between white dwarf staffers, much like chats amongst fans. so wishlisting. chalk it up to the 24hr rumour cycle for this to be news.

coolmandool wrote:Is Dorn actually dead? Current fluff have the fists finding his uh... skeletal fist and thats it. They retconned the old stuff where they found his

IIRC the only part of him found was his hand, with the bones of it now enshrined in the fists chapter-house.

Kirasu wrote:Why.. is this in news and rumors? This entire thread is because of misreading a random little blurb in the current WD issue. There are tons of threads about primarchs in general 40k..

Seriously.. the article in question was simply GW employees talking about "mysteries" in the universe.. the sentence says "As for Gulliman, Glenn is adamant that the Ultramarines Primarch is in fact healing from his fatal wounds....Nobody is willing to mock him too hard, because we rather like that idea".

It's clearly just some guy named Glenn musing over possible scenarios. It's not news, it's just conversation between players. Then again people post threads when a single page on the GW webpage doesn't work.

Guilliman slowly healing from his wounds (which has the form in the narrative of 'some say that...') has been part of the established background since at least the Index Astartes articles.

And yes, not really news or rumour!

I think the hail Mary, would be to reveal and bring back the 2 missing primarch's from the 20

 Therion wrote:
Just like Marneus Calgar or any of the previous masters of Macragge. Basically there's no meaningful difference.

Except there is. Gilliman ruled the Imperium after the Horus Heresy, putting in place the structures that kept it together during the period directly after the Siege of Terra.

The timeline creeps forward like a polar icecap. What was the last advance? Eye of Terror campaign, where it was determined that Cadia fought to a stand off?

If they want to bring Primearchs into Warhammer 40k, they could always do a summer prequel campaign. Pre Horus Heresy. I'd actually like that! and it wouldn't advance the timeline.

 Phydox wrote:
The timeline creeps forward like a polar icecap. What was the last advance? Eye of Terror campaign, where it was determined that Cadia fought to a stand off?

If they want to bring Primearchs into Warhammer 40k, they could always do a summer prequel campaign. Pre Horus Heresy. I'd actually like that! and it wouldn't advance the timeline.

There was one campaign after that which was officially set in M42. Fall of Medusa VII or something like that? I don't recall exactly. Minor planetary campaign with all the factions involved, rather than the clusterfeth that was the 13th Black Crusade.

Nope. Gw just wants people to stop emailing them with those questions.

 Pacific wrote:

coolmandool wrote:Is Dorn actually dead? Current fluff have the fists finding his uh... skeletal fist and thats it. They retconned the old stuff where they found his

IIRC the only part of him found was his hand, with the bones of it now enshrined in the fists chapter-house.

They found all of him. His fists are enshrined in different places and successive chapter masters scrimshaw their names onto them. His body is encased in clear amber and is kept within a chapel. This fluff was from Index Astartes II.

With the rapid releases and flood of little money grabs lately combined with rumors of a sell of the company, I wouldn't be surprised at all. They would almost be dumb not to advance the plot so that all the living/lost loyal Primarchs could come back. That is guaranteed millions in the bank.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
GW's unwilling to advance the plot, for some asinine reason, but they're not unwilling to cram more events into 999M41.

I mean, heck, the Riptide is, what, 20 days old by the "end" of the 41st millenium, the Storm Potato is a few centuries old, the Centurion sillyness is a few millenia.

Just no one noticed.

I could very well see them re-introducing Guilliman and Jonson (the two most likely, arguably, to return and heavily hinted at in the "current" fluff), but have it occur so late in the timeline that the ramifications would be left unknown.

Then they can sell the models, throw a little bit of fluff in about their immediate impact/mental state, and let the fans wonder what they'll get up to in that mythical M42.

At least until someone other than the current GW is at the helm and actually realizes slight plot advancement would not be apocalyptic. Let's end Armageddon and the 13th Black Crusade, shake up the universe a little bit, and craft something new to focus on.

This, really this. It wouldn't hurt at all to advance the plot by a thousand years, if not make GW even more money. Time creeps forward, the Cadian Gate is broken and Chaos is just about to spill over the entire galaxy when out of the corners of the galaxy, the loyalist Primarchs return. Sanguinius and Manus may be dead, But Vulkan, Russ, Guilliman, Corax, Khan, Dorn, and the Lion all return to lead the counter-attack on advancing forces of Chaos and grind them down into a war of planetary attrition. Guilliman takes over managing the Imperium as the Emperor's proxy (he's the most fit for the job). Then the Chaos Primarchs return to battle the loyalists, with Lorgar rallying all the Chaos forces together as their spiritual leader as Mortarion, Angron, Fulgrim, Perturabo, and Omegon all charge out of the Eye of Terror to marshal the forces of Chaos against the loyalist primarchs. The Alpha Legion splits, with Alpharius leading the loyalist parts of the Legion to the Emperor's side, possibly after any loyalist primarch bests him in combat to find that he is untainted by chaos. Omegon meanwhile remains on the side of Chaos, corrupted. Magnus however should stay in character, apathetic, and refrain from engaging in combat.

Also, it wouldn't be the end of times, considering the now fairly equal forces would likely stalemate each other, similar to 40k, ensuring it never ends. Primarchs allow for pure, original Astartes to be produced, but Chaos could now create more daemonic chaos astartes from the Daemon Primarchs.

It's not a plot. It's a background. If you want to know what happens next, play games and create your own narratives.

And if you want Primarchs, there are rules and models being produced. Use them.

 gorgon wrote:
It's not a plot. It's a background. If you want to know what happens next, play games and create your own narratives.

And if you want Primarchs, there are rules and models being produced. Use them.

Except personal narratives are simply irrelevent, as is headcanon. And the plot has been advancing, albeit at a snail's pace, and largely through retroactive canon. The Black Library has also been slowly crawling forward. And the rulesets only represent Primarchs during the Horus Heresy, and not those rendered Daemon Princes, or post the Horus Heresy.