Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:



Again, when I pointed out what this did to BT you shrugged if off with a "well their old rules were bad too!".

I don't remember saying something like that, I do remember saying that I'd tweak what they have now to improve them appropriately. The concept of rolling them in was fine, but with much of GW, the execution was flawed. There really isn't too much to be done to make BT perfectly fine within C:SM.

But once again, I do support improving them. I do understand they're not ideal as they are now, but I also don't think a separate codex would fix that.

I can agree with that (minus the separate Codex part). It's not that I think it's undoable, it's just I've not seen it done in a convincing way yet. The issue, in my opinion, is that Vanilla marines has more of a shooting slant whereas BA, BT, and SW have an assault slant. Trying to cram in melee armies in a shooting Codex and only changing some CTs isn't going to be enough.

And the extrea 12 pages would take it to a $100 book

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
But once again, I do support improving them. I do understand they're not ideal as they are now, but I also don't think a separate codex would fix that.

And Rolling them into the Space Marine Codex does.

What is wrong with a separate codex, no one is going to hold a bolt gun to your head and make you buy it unless you are a Blood Angels Player. Even if you are and you find you don’t like it you can just not buy it and use a “Count-As” with something from Codex: Space Marine.

Iknowright?

It's like hearing guys who like chicken sandwiches wanting hamburgers removed from the menu. It's weird.

A lot of those posts miss several things. Some missed their psychic powers, some didn't bother to address their EIGHT (and a half...tycho...) special characters, some missed unique BA units, some missed unique wargear selection, some apparently want to give us fast vehicles for free over other marines, not knowing our wheels cost more (tempting!)...Turns out some of the people saying "BA are just red marines!" don't actually know them very well.

If they were rolled in, a lot of the units in C:SM would have little footnotes that had "only available to chapter tactics: Blood Angels" written at the bottom of the page, like infernus pistols, more melta availability, special dread weapons... It's also a founding chapter, and has many known descendant chapters, so the painting section of the new combined C:SM would have to show those off too.

Tellin ya, if they had all their options they had now, but were already in the general SM codex, you'd constantly hear people saying how the BA take up too much room and necessitate too many little footnotes and rules alterations and need their own book. Some people might even go so far as to nickname the codex "codex BA and friends."

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


I can agree with that (minus the separate Codex part). It's not that I think it's undoable, it's just I've not seen it done in a convincing way yet. The issue, in my opinion, is that Vanilla marines has more of a shooting slant whereas BA, BT, and SW have an assault slant. Trying to cram in melee armies in a shooting Codex and only changing some CTs isn't going to be enough.

Well in my perfect world of rainbows and unicorns, the vanilla codex would have a balanced melee/shooting options. Things like Vanguard and Assault squads should be as viable as Sternguard and devs. Now, part of that lies in the overarching edition, but even in the book, there isn't a whole lot that a few point changes and a rules tweak won't fix. Hell, JustDave's 5th ed fandex did a pretty good job at that.

Then again, as they are currently, BA and SW are played with shooty heavy, so they need fixing anyways. I just don't buy the idea that they need a codex to be balanced, and that rolling them in would be just as viable a fix.

But the details of that are best served for the proposed rules section anyways.

Anyways, no need to bite people's heads off for wanting the codex to be rolled in. GW just has a habit of good ideas but awful implementation. BTs are no exception to this, and its unfortunate, but nothing a dedicated mind or two couldn't fix in the proposed area.

P.S. I think your Land Raider proposal was fairly balanced.

 Blacksails wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


I can agree with that (minus the separate Codex part). It's not that I think it's undoable, it's just I've not seen it done in a convincing way yet. The issue, in my opinion, is that Vanilla marines has more of a shooting slant whereas BA, BT, and SW have an assault slant. Trying to cram in melee armies in a shooting Codex and only changing some CTs isn't going to be enough.

Well in my perfect world of rainbows and unicorns, the vanilla codex would have a balanced melee/shooting options. Things like Vanguard and Assault squads should be as viable as Sternguard and devs. Now, part of that lies in the overarching edition, but even in the book, there isn't a whole lot that a few point changes and a rules tweak won't fix. Hell, JustDave's 5th ed fandex did a pretty good job at that.

Then again, as they are currently, BA and SW are played with shooty heavy, so they need fixing anyways. I just don't buy the idea that they need a codex to be balanced, and that rolling them in would be just as viable a fix.

But the details of that are best served for the proposed rules section anyways.

Anyways, no need to bite people's heads off for wanting the codex to be rolled in. GW just has a habit of good ideas but awful implementation. BTs are no exception to this, and its unfortunate, but nothing a dedicated mind or two couldn't fix in the proposed area.

P.S. I think your Land Raider proposal was fairly balanced.

We're not in a perfect world though. Given what we know from GWs past history, isn't a separate Codex the lesser of two evils?

It's a better discussion as to whether BA should have their own codex than what confluence of unlikely events have to happen to actually make them even an average list again. That's sad, but that's 6th ed for you.

Here's what I would like to see.

HQ: I'd like to be able to build a Captain with artificer armor, jump pack, iron halo, bolt pistol, power weapon/relic blade equivalent, frag & krak grenades, and a death mask. I've wanted this since the last BA codex came out, and I can't have it. That's how I always ran my Blood Angels 5th Battle Company commander, and I'd love to use this model as he is modeled again one day.

Also: Give Dante eternal warrior. He needs this rule to not get insta-gibbed in combat. Also, give the Axe of Mortalis something interesting instead of just being master crafted. concussive, able to be used as the Hammer of Wrath attack, I don't care what, just something to make it unique and worthy of a *chapter master* to be wielding. Hell, make it a master crafted power axe that doesn't have the unwieldy trait. That alone would make it cool and different.

Troops: point reduction across the board similar to how they did it for the current space marine codex and Dark Angels codex.

Death Company need to be a little cheaper and their jump packs need to be WAY cheaper.

Fast vehicles stay in the codex as they are, revise descent of angels to function like drop pods, with a set portion arriving turn one. Also, allow for a leadership test after landing to see if the squad can charge after landing instead of shooting. If the leadership test is failed, then the squad can only shoot or run as usual.

Just my thoughts on that, take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/582201.page#6583483

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Here's what I would like to see.

HQ: I'd like to be able to build a Captain with artificer armor, jump pack, iron halo, bolt pistol, power weapon/relic blade equivalent, frag & krak grenades, and a death mask. I've wanted this since the last BA codex came out, and I can't have it. That's how I always ran my Blood Angels 5th Battle Company commander, and I'd love to use this model as he is modeled again one day.

Also: Give Dante eternal warrior. He needs this rule to not get insta-gibbed in combat. Also, give the Axe of Mortalis something interesting instead of just being master crafted. concussive, able to be used as the Hammer of Wrath attack, I don't care what, just something to make it unique and worthy of a *chapter master* to be wielding. Hell, make it a master crafted power axe that doesn't have the unwieldy trait. That alone would make it cool and different.

Troops: point reduction across the board similar to how they did it for the current space marine codex and Dark Angels codex.

Death Company need to be a little cheaper and their jump packs need to be WAY cheaper.

Fast vehicles stay in the codex as they are, revise descent of angels to function like drop pods, with a set portion arriving turn one. Also, allow for a leadership test after landing to see if the squad can charge after landing instead of shooting. If the leadership test is failed, then the squad can only shoot or run as usual.

Just my thoughts on that, take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Honestly I think Death Company are fairly priced for their stats/rules. If we get the jump pack cost reduction from C:SM, you can be sure it will apply to DC as well.

 Orblivion wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Here's what I would like to see.

HQ: I'd like to be able to build a Captain with artificer armor, jump pack, iron halo, bolt pistol, power weapon/relic blade equivalent, frag & krak grenades, and a death mask. I've wanted this since the last BA codex came out, and I can't have it. That's how I always ran my Blood Angels 5th Battle Company commander, and I'd love to use this model as he is modeled again one day.

Also: Give Dante eternal warrior. He needs this rule to not get insta-gibbed in combat. Also, give the Axe of Mortalis something interesting instead of just being master crafted. concussive, able to be used as the Hammer of Wrath attack, I don't care what, just something to make it unique and worthy of a *chapter master* to be wielding. Hell, make it a master crafted power axe that doesn't have the unwieldy trait. That alone would make it cool and different.

Troops: point reduction across the board similar to how they did it for the current space marine codex and Dark Angels codex.

Death Company need to be a little cheaper and their jump packs need to be WAY cheaper.

Fast vehicles stay in the codex as they are, revise descent of angels to function like drop pods, with a set portion arriving turn one. Also, allow for a leadership test after landing to see if the squad can charge after landing instead of shooting. If the leadership test is failed, then the squad can only shoot or run as usual.

Just my thoughts on that, take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Honestly I think Death Company are fairly priced for their stats/rules. If we get the jump pack cost reduction from C:SM, you can be sure it will apply to DC as well.

I agree. Theyre durable and hit like a sledgehammer. I think they should get the +1 I boost back that we pay for however. Not base stats but a new rule of some sorts. Or perhaps a 4+ FnP,

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Here's what I would like to see.

HQ: I'd like to be able to build a Captain with artificer armor, jump pack, iron halo, bolt pistol, power weapon/relic blade equivalent, frag & krak grenades, and a death mask. I've wanted this since the last BA codex came out, and I can't have it. That's how I always ran my Blood Angels 5th Battle Company commander, and I'd love to use this model as he is modeled again one day.

Also: Give Dante eternal warrior. He needs this rule to not get insta-gibbed in combat. Also, give the Axe of Mortalis something interesting instead of just being master crafted. concussive, able to be used as the Hammer of Wrath attack, I don't care what, just something to make it unique and worthy of a *chapter master* to be wielding. Hell, make it a master crafted power axe that doesn't have the unwieldy trait. That alone would make it cool and different.

Troops: point reduction across the board similar to how they did it for the current space marine codex and Dark Angels codex.

Death Company need to be a little cheaper and their jump packs need to be WAY cheaper.

Fast vehicles stay in the codex as they are, revise descent of angels to function like drop pods, with a set portion arriving turn one. Also, allow for a leadership test after landing to see if the squad can charge after landing instead of shooting. If the leadership test is failed, then the squad can only shoot or run as usual.

Just my thoughts on that, take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Honestly I think Death Company are fairly priced for their stats/rules. If we get the jump pack cost reduction from C:SM, you can be sure it will apply to DC as well.

I agree. Theyre durable and hit like a sledgehammer. I think they should get the +1 I boost back that we pay for however. Not base stats but a new rule of some sorts. Or perhaps a 4+ FnP,

They already can pull off 5 Attacks on the Assualt.

DC will improve only when there are more viable threats more reasonable cost elsewhere in the codex.

Due to public demand, we'll ignore Tau/Eldar. What units are we talking about to handle GK/Necron/SW (w/dataslate)/Daemons? I think all those lists are fundamentally better than C:SM off of which BA are based.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Here's what I would like to see.

HQ: I'd like to be able to build a Captain with artificer armor, jump pack, iron halo, bolt pistol, power weapon/relic blade equivalent, frag & krak grenades, and a death mask. I've wanted this since the last BA codex came out, and I can't have it. That's how I always ran my Blood Angels 5th Battle Company commander, and I'd love to use this model as he is modeled again one day.

Also: Give Dante eternal warrior. He needs this rule to not get insta-gibbed in combat. Also, give the Axe of Mortalis something interesting instead of just being master crafted. concussive, able to be used as the Hammer of Wrath attack, I don't care what, just something to make it unique and worthy of a *chapter master* to be wielding. Hell, make it a master crafted power axe that doesn't have the unwieldy trait. That alone would make it cool and different.

Troops: point reduction across the board similar to how they did it for the current space marine codex and Dark Angels codex.

Death Company need to be a little cheaper and their jump packs need to be WAY cheaper.

Fast vehicles stay in the codex as they are, revise descent of angels to function like drop pods, with a set portion arriving turn one. Also, allow for a leadership test after landing to see if the squad can charge after landing instead of shooting. If the leadership test is failed, then the squad can only shoot or run as usual.

Just my thoughts on that, take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Honestly I think Death Company are fairly priced for their stats/rules. If we get the jump pack cost reduction from C:SM, you can be sure it will apply to DC as well.

I agree. Theyre durable and hit like a sledgehammer. I think they should get the +1 I boost back that we pay for however. Not base stats but a new rule of some sorts. Or perhaps a 4+ FnP,

They already can pull off 5 Attacks on the Assualt.

But we are paying for the +1 I boost on the first phase from the 5th edition rules. Besides id rather not loose too many shinies in melee if i can help it.

Ironically, the need for AP 2 melee weapons would have nerfed the init boost anyway.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Here's what I would like to see.

HQ: I'd like to be able to build a Captain with artificer armor, jump pack, iron halo, bolt pistol, power weapon/relic blade equivalent, frag & krak grenades, and a death mask. I've wanted this since the last BA codex came out, and I can't have it. That's how I always ran my Blood Angels 5th Battle Company commander, and I'd love to use this model as he is modeled again one day.

Also: Give Dante eternal warrior. He needs this rule to not get insta-gibbed in combat. Also, give the Axe of Mortalis something interesting instead of just being master crafted. concussive, able to be used as the Hammer of Wrath attack, I don't care what, just something to make it unique and worthy of a *chapter master* to be wielding. Hell, make it a master crafted power axe that doesn't have the unwieldy trait. That alone would make it cool and different.

Troops: point reduction across the board similar to how they did it for the current space marine codex and Dark Angels codex.

Death Company need to be a little cheaper and their jump packs need to be WAY cheaper.

Fast vehicles stay in the codex as they are, revise descent of angels to function like drop pods, with a set portion arriving turn one. Also, allow for a leadership test after landing to see if the squad can charge after landing instead of shooting. If the leadership test is failed, then the squad can only shoot or run as usual.

Just my thoughts on that, take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Honestly I think Death Company are fairly priced for their stats/rules. If we get the jump pack cost reduction from C:SM, you can be sure it will apply to DC as well.

I agree. Theyre durable and hit like a sledgehammer. I think they should get the +1 I boost back that we pay for however. Not base stats but a new rule of some sorts. Or perhaps a 4+ FnP,

They already can pull off 5 Attacks on the Assualt.

But we are paying for the +1 I boost on the first phase from the 5th edition rules. Besides id rather not loose too many shinies in melee if i can help it.

Thats is somthing difrent:
>Hammer of Wrath Jump or not
>Furious Charge with Hammer of Wrath
>I would be good with 4+ FNP
I dont know if you saw my earlyer idea about making Death Company an upgrade, that has more in it.

I did, was interesting but the SP idea was a little much imho. thatd be a minimum of 100 SP's in a chapter, which is a lot as most apothecaries number but one per company, i think its conceivable to have them be a limited option.
As to the DC i think theyre fine as is, no need to do a DC army without astorath. Plus theyd be ironic as a firebase, due to the relentless. Even dropped to BS 3.

That's what I was referencing. The fact that DC still pay for furious charge with +1 Initiative on the initial charge as well as feel no pain previously being a 4+ vs. being on a 5+ now.

I'm not saying make Death Company 5 points cheaper across the board, I am saying drop them one to two points. A slight points decrease and of course dropping the cost to add jump packs so that the cost is in line with the other 6th edition marine codexes would be splendid.

Just my opinions on that, take it easy.

-RT-

 Red__Thirst wrote:
That's what I was referencing. The fact that DC still pay for furious charge with +1 Initiative on the initial charge as well as feel no pain previously being a 4+ vs. being on a 5+ now.

I'm not saying make Death Company 5 points cheaper across the board, I am saying drop them one to two points. A slight points decrease and of course dropping the cost to add jump packs so that the cost is in line with the other 6th edition marine codexes would be splendid.

Just my opinions on that, take it easy.

-RT-

alternately, id take giving JP's for free with the option on a reduced point transport as opposed to the point drop.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

alternately, id take giving JP's for free with the option on a reduced point transport as opposed to the point drop.

This. If they handed DC jump packs by default, and offered removal for transport discount, I think they'd be just about perfect right now.

I also have to remind people that DC are not troops. They are elites that take a troop slot so you can fit more elites in. Never ever take them as a compulsory troop choice unless someone literally challenges you to purge the alien.

niv-mizzet wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

alternately, id take giving JP's for free with the option on a reduced point transport as opposed to the point drop.

This. If they handed DC jump packs by default, and offered removal for transport discount, I think they'd be just about perfect right now.

I also have to remind people that DC are not troops. They are elites that take a troop slot so you can fit more elites in. Never ever take them as a compulsory troop choice unless someone literally challenges you to purge the alien.

or you run astorath and spam them so hard you dont lose a squad all game
and i agree theyd be perfect with JP's staying as is

niv-mizzet wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
But once again, I do support improving them. I do understand they're not ideal as they are now, but I also don't think a separate codex would fix that.

And Rolling them into the Space Marine Codex does.

What is wrong with a separate codex, no one is going to hold a bolt gun to your head and make you buy it unless you are a Blood Angels Player. Even if you are and you find you don’t like it you can just not buy it and use a “Count-As” with something from Codex: Space Marine.

Iknowright?

It's like hearing guys who like chicken sandwiches wanting hamburgers removed from the menu. It's weird.

A lot of those posts miss several things. Some missed their psychic powers, some didn't bother to address their EIGHT (and a half...tycho...) special characters, some missed unique BA units, some missed unique wargear selection, some apparently want to give us fast vehicles for free over other marines, not knowing our wheels cost more (tempting!)...Turns out some of the people saying "BA are just red marines!" don't actually know them very well.

If they were rolled in, a lot of the units in C:SM would have little footnotes that had "only available to chapter tactics: Blood Angels" written at the bottom of the page, like infernus pistols, more melta availability, special dread weapons... It's also a founding chapter, and has many known descendant chapters, so the painting section of the new combined C:SM would have to show those off too.

Tellin ya, if they had all their options they had now, but were already in the general SM codex, you'd constantly hear people saying how the BA take up too much room and necessitate too many little footnotes and rules alterations and need their own book. Some people might even go so far as to nickname the codex "codex BA and friends."

Why does BA have unique Psyker powers again..? Even DA didn't get that, but for some reason team Edward and Jacob get them.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
But once again, I do support improving them. I do understand they're not ideal as they are now, but I also don't think a separate codex would fix that.

And Rolling them into the Space Marine Codex does.

What is wrong with a separate codex, no one is going to hold a bolt gun to your head and make you buy it unless you are a Blood Angels Player. Even if you are and you find you don’t like it you can just not buy it and use a “Count-As” with something from Codex: Space Marine.

Iknowright?

It's like hearing guys who like chicken sandwiches wanting hamburgers removed from the menu. It's weird.

A lot of those posts miss several things. Some missed their psychic powers, some didn't bother to address their EIGHT (and a half...tycho...) special characters, some missed unique BA units, some missed unique wargear selection, some apparently want to give us fast vehicles for free over other marines, not knowing our wheels cost more (tempting!)...Turns out some of the people saying "BA are just red marines!" don't actually know them very well.

If they were rolled in, a lot of the units in C:SM would have little footnotes that had "only available to chapter tactics: Blood Angels" written at the bottom of the page, like infernus pistols, more melta availability, special dread weapons... It's also a founding chapter, and has many known descendant chapters, so the painting section of the new combined C:SM would have to show those off too.

Tellin ya, if they had all their options they had now, but were already in the general SM codex, you'd constantly hear people saying how the BA take up too much room and necessitate too many little footnotes and rules alterations and need their own book. Some people might even go so far as to nickname the codex "codex BA and friends."

Why does BA have unique Psyker powers again..? Even DA didn't get that, but for some reason team Edward and Jacob get them.

Blood lance is too good to give up. Plus we can spam 5 of em.

BA and SW need to lose the special powers.

Martel732 wrote:
BA and SW need to lose the special powers.

Aww, come on Martel. You're not pumped for a separate Bloodomancy deck?

No. Not at all. Because I don't want to risk losing access to divination like Tyranids.

 Orblivion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
BA and SW need to lose the special powers.

Aww, come on Martel. You're not pumped for a separate Bloodomancy deck?

while id be fine without bloodmancy, Wolves should get an elemental deck as they use their environment against the opposition.

Martel732 wrote:
BA and SW need to lose the special powers.

While I have no opinion on them losing or keeping unique powers I am more curious as to why some BA players feel that they need to keep them. MY DA only have 1 unique power and that is on a special character. Vanilla marines lost all codex powers (now admittily all those powers are in the BRB). Tyranids lost BRB powers but most players are doing fine without biomancy and enjoy the new table just fine (my experience at least). So why is it essential to keep your codex powers? Why not just give Mephy guarenteed unique powers and call it good?

SW I would actually like to keep some of the elemental powers but thats just me

 FirePainter wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
BA and SW need to lose the special powers.

While I have no opinion on them losing or keeping unique powers I am more curious as to why some BA players feel that they need to keep them. MY DA only have 1 unique power and that is on a special character. Vanilla marines lost all codex powers (now admittily all those powers are in the BRB). Tyranids lost BRB powers but most players are doing fine without biomancy and enjoy the new table just fine (my experience at least). So why is it essential to keep your codex powers? Why not just give Mephy guarenteed unique powers and call it good?

SW I would actually like to keep some of the elemental powers but thats just me

I would like to keep wings, Bloodlance and Shield as they are the most useful but as stated before, dont feel they are necessary. If we give memphy Wings we should be allright.

Allow units with JP's to deepstrike directly into being locked into combat with the enemy. Throw in a dangerous terrain test, make it a disordered charge, and give everyone who ends up in base to base a hammer of wrath attack. If the BA unit scatters so no one lands in base to base, they still lose their ability to shoot and get to be shot to death.

 rohansoldier wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 BlackArmour wrote:
so far I've gathered get rid of the things that make BA's play as BA's.

Except that's not true at all. Look at the things that define BA, as opposed to all the random filler units that GW had to invent to justify giving them an entire codex. The core of the army is:

1) Assault squads as troops.

2) Fast vehicles.

3) Black rage.

So, put them in C:SM with the following chapter tactics:

Rapid Assault: The BA chapter is known for their fast, aggressive assault tactics. Assault squads drop into battle from Thunderhawk gunships, while their armored spearheads race forward to support them. An army with Chapter Tactics: BA may take assault squads as troops, and all Rhino-hull vehicles gain the Fast subtype (their special Predator turrets are just part of C:SM).

Red Thirst/Black Rage: The BA suffer from a crippling flaw: at any moment they could give in to their rage and be consumed by it, becoming little more than mindless killing machines. All BA models gain the Furious Charge USR and FNP (4+) against all close combat attacks. Before deployment roll A D6 for each unit with Chapter Tactics: BA in your army. On a 1 the unit also gains the Rage USR, but is never counted as a scoring or denial unit, and always counts as being destroyed at the end of the game in missions where this is relevant.

There, now you've captured the entire concept of the BA chapter without needing to spend an entire codex on them.

This. No space marine chapter is unique enough to need its own codex IMO, except maybe Space Wolves and Grey Knights.

Even Dark Angels could have been done in the SM codex (they might have been better off too!).

This might be the best suggestion I've seen thus far.
If I only may add that besides Rage the Red Thirst/Black Rage should include Fearless usr.
And Sanguinary Priests could be special unit for BA.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And as I mentioned in the previous thread about this same subject, I'd really love to see BA getting their unique psychic tree.
Unlikely, but would be awesome.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
BA and SW need to lose the special powers.

While I have no opinion on them losing or keeping unique powers I am more curious as to why some BA players feel that they need to keep them. MY DA only have 1 unique power and that is on a special character. Vanilla marines lost all codex powers (now admittily all those powers are in the BRB). Tyranids lost BRB powers but most players are doing fine without biomancy and enjoy the new table just fine (my experience at least). So why is it essential to keep your codex powers? Why not just give Mephy guarenteed unique powers and call it good?

SW I would actually like to keep some of the elemental powers but thats just me

I would like to keep wings, Bloodlance and Shield as they are the most useful but as stated before, dont feel they are necessary. If we give memphy Wings we should be allright.

You're ok with losing Sanguine Sword as well? Please no!