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 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 bubber wrote:
Also, as mentioned ages ago, no god-specific add-ons & no Slaanesh weapon options like the FW sonic blaster (link) or blastmaster (link)

Shame :(

Are either of those things in the Chaos Space Marine Codex?

TBH no, which again is a shame. Then again there are no cult termies, raptors, warp talons, bikers or havocs either.
They could have added these parts though so in the future GW had the option to do the 4 god lists that some of us really want.
It's weird that in IAA, FW have given us the ability to give marks to the chaos stuff in the book. I would love for my Hellbrutes to have the shrouded rule.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
From what I've been able to weasel out of GW reps, they cannot offer a "discount" on the bundle since it's not a single item bundled as one. It's just the two actual items being sold together.

Oh that is total bull gak. They set the prices, right? All they have to do is set it $5 lower than the total separate cost. You really believe they don't have the ability to do that?

On consideration, it may not be an ability issue but a legal one...

I don't know about in the UK, but there are (or used to be, at least) rules here in Oz against selling combined product at lower prices that essentially boiled down to 'if you're going to off two of these for 'x' then the customer has to be allowed to buy one of them for half that amount...'

It came about as a result of the old practice of selling raffle tickets as, say, $1each or 3 for $2... some intelligent person decided that this was encouraging people to spend more, and therefore was bad. So if you sold 3 for $2, the customer had to have the option of buying 1 for a third of that price.

I'm not 100% sure it applies to everything, and as I said have no idea if it applies in any other countries... but it would be a valid reason for not selling bundles with a reduced price while things like battleforces (all packaged up in a single box) can offer a saving over the individual kits.

I doubt that's the case here, you can get "toofers" in any supermarket on any given day.

It is more likely linked to them believing their own hype of "not doing sales and never offering discounts" or whatever arrogant, pretentious way they phrase it.

 bubber wrote:

It's weird that in IAA, FW have given us the ability to give marks to the chaos stuff in the book. I would love for my Hellbrutes to have the shrouded rule.

Khorne Dedicated Maulerfiends with Rage and Rampage..., me like it...

 azreal13 wrote:
I doubt that's the case here, you can get "toofers" in any supermarket on any given day.

But if it's illegal in some markets, not doing it in any of them would make a certain amount of sense. While they can justify regional pricing based on local economies (whether or not customers agree with that justification ) it would be harder to make discounted deals in some areas and not others fly as well with the punters. And would be more of a hassle for the book-keeping.

A user on Faiet 212 posted this;

MAAkselMarch 7, 2014 at 4:19 PM

Read through the book... only 2 pages worth of actual rules.

Forsaken become troops, lose whatever the forsaken special rule is and gain a D3 roll at the start of their owning players turn. 1 = change from 'infantry' to 'beasts'. 2 = 3++, 3 = (I believe) always wounds on a 3+ and gains rending.

A few new items, the only one I recall specifically is a 2+ armor save, crusader and 'it will not die' for 40 points. There was another one that gave access to divination for 25 points.

The only warlord trait I thought was 'nice' was warlord gains shrouded.

Hope this helps!

Forsaken are Possesed i guess, a false translation, or maybe the name they get in the Book.

Now its a shame that this table replaces the Posseded usual table, would have been good to keep both.

I'm glad they gave Kranon a Sigil and not just an aura of dark glory!
I guess a master crafted plasma pistol would be too badass for him though...

Is there any Character in the game that gets to take one?

Okay so this topic is 17 (or more depending how long i take to write this) pages long now so excuse me if i dont quote all the things im about to adress. lol.

First off. Hi, im new on the forums but ive been a 40k player since '98 and a CSM player since 2000. ( my first csm boxed unit was a 5 man short n fat plague marine set with a green border that i still have in my attic.)
Now someone Please point out the spot in the codices that specifically states ''CSM may not EVER choose options from the SM codex'' as far as i am aware this line does not exist, As such i have a nigh on 30000 point fully painted Word Bearers legion army Complete With landspeeders, whirlwinds, helbrutes dreadnoughts a thunderhawk gunship, mutiple droppods..... and any other units you can think of that GW 'strategically' left out of the CSM codices that Should by all rights be in there. Rules exist for these units and since the only real difference in rules on Any csm armoured vehicle is 'dirge casters' and 'daemonic possession' i fail to see why everybody thinks that you cant use them, or they somehow magically stopped working or got stolen. Lol.. Fluffwise. its pretty clear and even spelled out in many books. I.E 'word bearers the omnibus' that CSM legions will gleefully strip a battlefield bare of ANYTHING they could use for their next fight against the loyalists. Visuals-wise all they need is a coat of blood some heads on poles n some chains an skulls n a couple of 8 pointed stars and presto De-consecration achieved. So all those imobilised/ useless vehicles that had their crews killed off in the battle would be readily scooped up and herded into the ships on thunderhawks (the staple void to surface ship in the marines arsenal). Okay so my army might not get allowed in tournaments. But how many players actually do tournys? i would think the answer is in the minority. Chaos is Chaos we steal things and we make em chaosy and we use them against the loyalists we always have an we always will, so why dont more players think a bit more about it and create armies like my own? And dont any of you dare come back with 'thats like using tau units in a necron army' or something along those lines because it is nothing like that AT ALL. After all we are just Marines that Hate the emporor and love to kill stuff. But we are still Bloody space marines.
Rant over

Back to the topic at hand Lol..
Those new helbrute kits look awesome. and ill definately be buying a few as ive been wanting a helbrute that actually has a Tl-lascannon or a plasma cannon for ages.
Next that strikeforce box is a really good deal and i dont get why people are saying it is not a legal army because it Clearly is. Csm codex on chaos space marines. clearly states a unit consists of 1 champion and 4 marines. (additional marines are OPTIONAL).
Next.. im in complete agreement with everyone else on this crimson slaughter codex. i think they are clearly just trying to cater for the kids who bought dv and actually painted their army in CS colours -.- ... they really should get onto producing those legion based supplements and im not just saying that cos im a devout word bearer.. Lol
As for plastic chosen / cultists boxes i would say those are still on the table and and Even More likely to get released now as they've FINALLY given us the plastic multipart helbrute with REAL options.
As for possessed as troops thats sound plausible but annoying as hell. woo 26 point troops hmm i think ill stick to Tarpitting with 40 man cultist blobs. Thanks anyway gw.

As above but you cannot make the Possessed better by simply making them troops.

At 26 points, giving them 2 wounds would actually make the darned things worth some of those points back. Or shave them to 16 points.

 TheOriginalKaotik wrote:

Now someone Please point out the spot in the codices that specifically states ''CSM may not EVER choose options from the SM codex''

Interesting, following your logic one could use anything with any book just just cause none can prove the contrary. Wait we already do count as!

Interesting, following your logic one could use anything with any book just just cause none can prove the contrary.

Did you fail to read the rest of my comment? its nothing like using anything from any armys book. dude.. use your brain .. we are marines. its ALL marine wargear, armoured vehicles etc.. its Not like im suggesting that you take a necron monolith in a dark angels army. as that would be beyond Edited by insaniak. The language filter is there for a reason. It really shouldn't be necessary for us to point out that circumventing it is inappropriate.
im simply saying engage brain, we are marines ACT like Marines and dust off those land speeders and convert some noise guns and skulls and chaos icons to the front for effect

Hell, Strap a wounded guardsmen with a skull for a face to the bottom atached by a chain and you can use him as decoration too.

 TheOriginalKaotik wrote:

Now someone Please point out the spot in the codices that specifically states ''CSM may not EVER choose options from the SM codex'' as far as i am aware this line does not exist,

Show me line that says you can? Your logic is riddiculous! if something not mentioned, then its okay? rightio my codex Dark Angels doesnt make any mention of me being able to take things from another codex, but because the book hasnt explicitly forbade it, Im going to use your logic to say I think we should be allowed Tervigons, and Riptides, and seer couincils... if only becasue the codex 'forgot' to forbid that.....

Erm nah I think you cant use anything whatsoeevr from codex space marines, because your playing codex chaos space marines. Its so self explanatory and obvious that Id say your are just trolling? but if you seriously cant understand why you cant just pick and choose what is in your codex form other books.. then I give up

Sounds to me asif you actually want to play codex space marines? theres nothing wrong with doing that and modeling them to be chaos looking. but if you wanted to take something exclusive to chaos with something exclusive to imperial marines in the same list, then no... just no! I'd never play against that unless you allow your opponent to take his pick of enemy codexes to take the best units from too.

I usually build my armies based around the list of things it CAN take as described in the appropriate army book.

Who knew after all these years I should have been taking units I wasn't told I couldn't take.

Mind.

Blown.

 TheOriginalKaotik wrote:
Now someone Please point out the spot in the codices that specifically states ''CSM may not EVER choose options from the SM codex'' ...

That's not how it works. In order to take something from another codex, you're going to need a rule that says that you can.

...And dont any of you dare come back with 'thats like using tau units in a necron army' or something along those lines because it is nothing like that AT ALL.

Uh, no, it's exactly like that.

Each codex is a separate entity. You can only mix units between them as specifically allowed by the rules.

I declare trololololol on TheOriginalKaotik.

Its EXACTLY like what he says its not. Chaos space marines and imperial space marines are like black and white... theyre totally opposite, genuine arch enemies. Its like playing a WW2 game and using both german and british tanks in one army, explaingin it away ; oh theyre both humans, both european, whats the problem?!

You can take what ever is in that Codex or Codex supplement that goes with that Codex. Your allies can take whatever's in their Codex.
CSM can only ally with SM in Apocalypse games.
HOWEVER you can field some of (if not all) of your vehicles in HH games but then you'll need to buy these first.

Wow you all have the most limited imaginations. why is it. that i say use Marine based items. and sudddenly you think i mean grab some stuiff form any army you fancy. You are a marine. You should be using thunderhawks. They even Sell alpha legion etcetc door variants for you to add.
You Should be using drop pods. how do you expect to make it to the ground with no flying trasnports? ( except overpriced khardybdis claws. But you could always use those chaos rules Anyway with a Basic drop pod and some icons.)
IMAGINATION. CSM are the most fluffy kitbash freindly models gw sell. apart from Orks of course and they actually do have a specific rule to allow you to use wotever you want as long as its orky. lol the point is. its already there. weve been handed all the units on several overpriced plates.
all your doing is seeing the middle plate and missing the gravy boat entirely. we can and do AS a rule.. as a faction. Rob and plunder assets from loyalists. so why are you argueing with something that actually helps you And stops you from complaining about lack of centurions (but who needs em) or lack of whirlwinds.
I have used my army in regular and apoc battles in my local gw store before, the staff inside were impresed that i actually had the brains to do it. They didnt say i couldnt use the models wen i feilded some corpse strewn anti air vehicles to combat the flyers on his side.
Just because it doesnt say you can. doesnt mean you cant. they game after all is completely IN OUR HEADS lol.
Its all their to be used. you just need to have the courage to actually try them
While vanilla marines and CSM Are black n white and factionally opposed.. the Vehicles are not affiliated with a faction and can be re utilised as and when they are needed.
If they were not you wouldnt even have a rhino to plod along inside. cos oh no low n behold its got the same name as a loyalist rhino. Sigh...

Divination for $60 bucks anyone?

 insaniak wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
I doubt that's the case here, you can get "toofers" in any supermarket on any given day.

But if it's illegal in some markets, not doing it in any of them would make a certain amount of sense. While they can justify regional pricing based on local economies (whether or not customers agree with that justification ) it would be harder to make discounted deals in some areas and not others fly as well with the punters. And would be more of a hassle for the book-keeping.

No offense intended, but the UK and US are their two largest markets and both markets allow bundle discounts. If GW believed that discounting bundles were the way to go to increase overall sales and profits, then they would go this route and in the markets that did not allow the bundling they would maintain their current pricing practices. You should set pricing for each market, not a bland number across the board. They've shown this with their pricing for Australia in general. It's fairly safe to speculate that their reasoning to sell at MSRP to be for different reasons. Not much point in setting an MSRP if you are not going to follow it (I'm sure the independent stores would love to try and compete with GW for sales if GW did this, it'd kill the local stores margins even more). My apology for veering a little off topic here, I found this string to be quite interesting.


As for this CSM release, I find it disappointing. I was really hoping we'd see a new CSM troop box. But hey, now my Hellbrute's will at least look cooler before you blow it off the table!

Rage against that dying light brother.

RAGE!

My next game with my IW I'm totally taking deepstriking land raiders, bikes as troops, scoring sterguard, and I'm thinking Lysanders bolter drill.

I'm sure I can talk insaniak into that match.

I mean, my CSM dex doesn't say I can't, so why not?

[Edit] Oh yea, I'm also going to squeeze a Knight in there too.

 TheOriginalKaotik wrote:
Wow you all have the most limited imaginations.

Imagination isn't the problem. Plenty of people make their own house rules... and what you are suggesting is fine, as a house rule.

It's presenting it as if the rules actually allow it that got you the response you got.

Just because it doesnt say you can. doesnt mean you cant.

No, that's exactly what it means, unless you and your opponent agree to play otherwise.

 insaniak wrote:

Motograter wrote:
All the legion vs renegades problems can be sorted rather easily in a very obvious fashion. Codex chaos legions and codex chaos renegades. 2 books,

Or even one book, with options to take razorbacks, stormravens, landspeeders and the like for renegades, and daemon engines for the Legions...

It was rumoured some time ago that they were going to do just that - one book for the Traitor Legions and one for more recent Renegades. HBMC's post illustrates that aside from cultists (which have a place in both, IMO) a good point of difference, and I'd like to see a proper take on a "transition" codex where certain vehicles like landspeeders and whirlwinds and such were still allowed but severely limited (due to parts or supply or whatever) but chaos'ed up a little while other things like Defilers and Soulgrinders and Heldrakes weren't available.

Imagination isn't the problem. Plenty of people make their own house rules... and what you are suggesting is fine, as a house rule.

It's presenting it as if the rules actually allow it that got you the response you got.

Okay so i mis-represented what i was tryin to say i apologize. i am not in anyway attempting to convey that the rules State that this is what you must do. im simply suggesting, since converted armies are quite common, that people stop complaining about not having whirlwinds etc and buy some and make them chaosy -.-

But in no way is this at all like trying to use xenos in a marine force. The way i see it codex : - CSM is just a supplement to Codex :- sm and then Every other suplement is supplementing those.

marines marines marines.. anything that says marine on it. as far as i can see. Is fair game.
i would even go as far as saying you could use some eldar units in a Dark eldar army. BUT and i must streess this.. Not th opposite way around. logically. dark eldar Are evil so vanilla eldar wont be using Scourges. Ever. and a loyalist marine force would not EVER use a helbrute or mutatations. and a CSM force would never take a chaplain.
But its Logic and common sense. keep to the fluff and keep to the intended design of the army and you are fine. as i stated before, my army in its complete entirety would never be useable in a tourny But more than half of it would.
you could even go as far as saying that thanks to messed up warp time. your force has only been away for a hundred or so years since the heresy and still has a ton of old vehicles and ships all brand new and shiny and ready to use. (albeit rather warpified and gruesome to behold.) (cue genrous coatings of greenstuff ~slop~)

My Chaos Space Marines codex doesn't say I can't spread peanut butter on my chest and rub my opponent's models all over myself, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna. .

 Brother SRM wrote:
My Chaos Space Marines codex doesn't say I can't spread peanut butter on my chest and rub my opponent's models all over myself, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna. .

Pics or it didn't happen.

Might want to use Finecast for that though.

 TheOriginalKaotik wrote:

Interesting, following your logic one could use anything with any book just just cause none can prove the contrary.

Did you fail to read the rest of my comment? its nothing like using anything from any armys book. dude.. use your brain .. we are marines. its ALL marine wargear, armoured vehicles etc.. its Not like im suggesting that you take a necron monolith in a dark angels army. as that would be beyond Edited by insaniak. The language filter is there for a reason. It really shouldn't be necessary for us to point out that circumventing it is inappropriate.
im simply saying engage brain, we are marines ACT like Marines and dust off those land speeders and convert some noise guns and skulls and chaos icons to the front for effect

Hell, Strap a wounded guardsmen with a skull for a face to the bottom atached by a chain and you can use him as decoration too.

My bad. I was sure that you would get as joke.

 TheOriginalKaotik wrote:

Imagination isn't the problem. Plenty of people make their own house rules... and what you are suggesting is fine, as a house rule.

It's presenting it as if the rules actually allow it that got you the response you got.

Okay so i mis-represented what i was tryin to say i apologize. i am not in anyway attempting to convey that the rules State that this is what you must do. im simply suggesting, since converted armies are quite common, that people stop complaining about not having whirlwinds etc and buy some and make them chaosy -.-
But in no way is this at all like trying to use xenos in a marine force. The way i see it codex : - CSM is just a supplement to Codex :- sm and then Every other suplement is supplementing those.
marines marines marines.. anything that says marine on it. as far as i can see. Is fair game. i would even go as far as saying you could use some eldar units in a Dark eldar army. BUT and i must streess this.. Not th opposite way around. logically. dark eldar Are evil so vanilla eldar wont be using Scourges. Ever. and a loyalist marine force would not EVER use a helbrute or mutatations. and a CSM force would never take a chaplain. But its Logic and common sense. keep to the fluff and keep to the intended design of the army and you are fine. as i stated before, my army in its complete entirety would never be useable in a tourny But more than half of it would.
you could even go as far as saying that thanks to messed up warp time. your force has only been away for a hundred or so years since the heresy and still has a ton of old vehicles and ships all brand new and shiny and ready to use. (albeit rather warpified and gruesome to behold.) (cue genrous coatings of greenstuff ~slop~)

You're conflating fluff with rules, applying logic to an abstract game derived from a totally fictional background.

You've represented your point just fine, most of us just disagree with you outside of special scenarios or planned games in established groups.

You area Troll or not very bright, The codex says what you can take, if it is not there tough luck, you could use a normal space marine army rules and use chaos figures instead, but you still have to follow the rules.

livanbard wrote :-

My bad. I was sure that you would get as joke.

sorry my bad i totally didnt lol.i was expecting something along that line and i think you hooked me in

Jehen-reznor wrote :-

You area Troll or not very bright, The codex says what you can take, if it is not there tough luck,

you seriously think like that? thats really saddening :( because you dont seriously expect the dark angels to only have acces to one DA specific flyer do you? since thats the only thing in their codex. but in actual fact you can happily use other SM flyers from the SM codex in games for said DA force. you arnt necessarily just confined to what Gw decide to put into one book. when they are making so many books for one set of guys ie marines.. of course they are going to leave a few units out if the rules for said units have not changed from the master book for said facton. Dark angels is the best example of Gws ploys.

P.s sorry insaniak i actually didnt realise that word was inapropriate.. and edited because i thought it looked out of place saying slowed in that spot i nthe sentance.

You haven't just brought a massive revelation with you on to the worlds largest wargaming community, you're aware of that right?

We know you could very reasonably justify many Marine units across various books, that isn't the point. The point is, this is a game, it has rules, the only way to successfully play the game with someone who you don't know is to use the same rules, not make some random nonsense up and then expect someone else to "get" it.