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 kronk wrote:
Well I expect to see it up for preorder this Friday. Neener-neener.

Hush, there's some very 'excited' individuals active ITT, that sort of talk could sen them over the edge!

Think of the (man) children!!

Remember folks...

The March 29th preorders are for the following items:

Taurox Prime/Taurox (the battlebus) for $48.
Miltarum Tempestus Command Squad/Scion 5 man box for $35.
Codex: Militarum Tempestus (direct order item) for $50.

They officially release on April 5th. The new Ogryn plastics and the new Hydra and the Codex: Astra Militarum do not release until later. Prices are USD.

So the supplement for the stormtroopers will be before the new guard book? That's odd.

Not a supplement. It's a codex. So it's ok to release it before the IG Book.

And dear lord are we going codex crazy lately. We're now going to be up to 19 official actual codexes.

 Turalon wrote:
So the supplement for the stormtroopers will be before the new guard book? That's odd.

Seems to suggest that they are looking to take the auxilia/ stormtrooper units a new direction. I take it that they want to rebrand them more as units that accompany all Imperial forces instead of just the guard. I wouldn't be surprised to see stormtroopers taken out of the Guard book altogether, and kasrkin-like heavy infantry units replace them in their niche in the codex. Just a thought.

More than excited for the Scions though. I'll be buying many boxes

 Ignatius wrote:

 Turalon wrote:
So the supplement for the stormtroopers will be before the new guard book? That's odd.

Seems to suggest that they are looking to take the auxilia/ stormtrooper units a new direction. I take it that they want to rebrand them more as units that accompany all Imperial forces instead of just the guard. I wouldn't be surprised to see stormtroopers taken out of the Guard book altogether, and kasrkin-like heavy infantry units replace them in their niche in the codex. Just a thought.

More than excited for the Scions though. I'll be buying many boxes

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Remember folks...

The March 29th preorders are for the following items:

Taurox Prime/Taurox (the battlebus) for $48.
Miltarum Tempestus Command Squad/Scion 5 man box for $35.
Codex: Militarum Tempestus (direct order item) for $50.

They officially release on April 5th. The new Ogryn plastics and the new Hydra and the Codex: Astra Militarum do not release until later. Prices are USD.

Yup.

If this was 5th edition, and all these supplements (let's be honest, that's what they are, regardless of naming) were softcover and relatively inexpensive, it'd be cool.

When a single army can be $150 in army books (Say, 3rd Company IF with a Knight), plus an expensive BRB, that's patently insane. At least with the gouging the 'nids have been getting, they can buy smaller chunks of, in theory, just the particular rules they want for their army.

I bought all the rules I needed for Bolt Action for $40, and the BRB is hardcover no less, and the expanded army list book cost less than $20, and was completely future-proofed, with army lists for different eras, formations and so on.

The model sticker shock is certainly a big barrier, but how can you sell this game to someone when not only will the plastic models cost ~$400 or more, but you have to spend between $150 minimum on rules, up to a possible max for a single reasonably fluff force of $250. Maybe add in ForgeWorld and go for a full $330.

As someone who's already invested, buying the one hardcover codex isn't the end of the world, as by the looks of things I won't be buying any of the new models, but I'm seeing more and more barriers to newcomers, and they're GW's supposed target market.

It really says something that I'm buying all my X-Wing stuff from the FLGS to justify my presence to keep playing 40k, as so much of the new stuff seems astronomically priced or of questionable design. (Note, I buy an awful lot of X-Wing stuff).

I wonder, will the Taurox be cheaper than a Chimera points wise?

 Ignatius wrote:

 Turalon wrote:
So the supplement for the stormtroopers will be before the new guard book? That's odd.

I wouldn't be surprised to see stormtroopers taken out of the Guard book altogether, and kasrkin-like heavy infantry units replace them in their niche in the codex. Just a thought.

Especially if they stick to the Astra Militarium / Imperial Guard is almost all Cadian or versions of the same as they seem to be have been doing in the fluff / imagery - sadly in my view - I love all the varied Guard Regiments.......

Catachans have been pushed pretty hard in the Apocalypse warzone datasheets as of late.

Before I saw this thread I was excited at the prospect of a new IG codex.

Now, not so much. I'm seeing these new (fugly) models and the Stormtrooper codex and hearing the comments that Cruddace got in trouble with GW for making the IG "so good" last edition (I certainly never saw how OP they were, but then.. I don't own any vendettas or nine manticores) and I'm wondering if this new codex is going to be the Imperial equivalent to the Tyranid codex. You know; SCs dropped for not having models (with Finecast being taken out back and shot, will they still bother with rules for models that currently only exist in metal? Like Al'Rahem or Chenkov?) otherwise decent units becoming overcosted, units getting dropped or nerfed to the point of uselessness, units getting dropped for lack of models (does anyone see GW releasing actual Penal Legion models?)... seriously; I'm worried.

We're seeing only some of the new models for the army, but I've seen comments here that the IG are only supposed to get X number of new kits, and that we have seen most of X number in this thread. Which leaves precious little for them to really do anything with the army. They don't have enough kits left in X number to re-do the Catachan models (desperately needed), re-do the Rough Riders (also desperately needed), do up Penal Legion models (needed if they want to avoid IP fights later on) and so forth.

The more I read, the more worried I get.

squidhills wrote:
Before I saw this thread I was excited at the prospect of a new IG codex.

Now, not so much. I'm seeing these new (fugly) models and the Stormtrooper codex and hearing the comments that Cruddace got in trouble with GW for making the IG "so good" last edition (I certainly never saw how OP they were, but then.. I don't own any vendettas or nine manticores) and I'm wondering if this new codex is going to be the Imperial equivalent to the Tyranid codex. You know; SCs dropped for not having models (with Finecast being taken out back and shot, will they still bother with rules for models that currently only exist in metal? Like Al'Rahem or Chenkov?) otherwise decent units becoming overcosted, units getting dropped or nerfed to the point of uselessness, units getting dropped for lack of models (does anyone see GW releasing actual Penal Legion models?)... seriously; I'm worried.

We're seeing only some of the new models for the army, but I've seen comments here that the IG are only supposed to get X number of new kits, and that we have seen most of X number in this thread. Which leaves precious little for them to really do anything with the army. They don't have enough kits left in X number to re-do the Catachan models (desperately needed), re-do the Rough Riders (also desperately needed), do up Penal Legion models (needed if they want to avoid IP fights later on) and so forth.

The more I read, the more worried I get.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Turalon wrote:
So the supplement for the stormtroopers will be before the new guard book? That's odd.

'Cause Scions are not (the) Stormtroopers...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

squidhills wrote:
hearing the comments that Cruddace got in trouble with GW for making the IG "so good" last edition

Of the things posted in this thread, those rumors I believe the least.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:

 Turalon wrote:
So the supplement for the stormtroopers will be before the new guard book? That's odd.

I wouldn't be surprised to see stormtroopers taken out of the Guard book altogether, and kasrkin-like heavy infantry units replace them in their niche in the codex. Just a thought.

Especially if they stick to the Astra Militarium / Imperial Guard is almost all Cadian or versions of the same as they seem to be have been doing in the fluff / imagery - sadly in my view - I love all the varied Guard Regiments.......

I wouldn't worry too much about that...

The Imperial Guard "Troops" section has actually gotten bigger this past week. Lots of things that were not on the site for years or that were previously only available as single models rather than "sets" are back.
Metal Cadian Snipers and the Plasmagun/Meltagun guys? They're back.
Metal Catachan Snipers, Heavy Flamers, and Demolition Teams? Back.
Most of the Vostroyans are back.
Mordian Iron Guard squad is back.
The "old" metal Stormtroopers are in as Troops right now, which is definitely new.
Valhallan squad is back.
Steel Legion Squad, Heavy Bolter and Lascannon teams, and the Steel Legion with a plasmagun is back.
Tallarn squad is back.
Colonel Schaeffer's Last Chancers and Gaunt's Ghosts are back.

krazynadechukr wrote:



Guard is separate from this AT stuff... Imagine some new models coming out for Blood Angels and someone saying, well GW maxed out new models. Guess I wont get my new Space Wolves after all. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Wait and see. AT is an allies codex &/or stand alone army (you know how Knights developed on their own, separate from Terra? These Scions are in the same boat...). imho

Yes, but with these models that we've seen, they all have 2 different build options. One for AT (Scions, Bullgryns, Ugly Truck) and one for IG (something stormtrooper-esque, regular Ogryns, a slightly different-looking ugly truck). This isn't like GW releasing a kit with two different builds for the same army, it's two builds for two different (but related) armies. This is more like if GW released a SW kit that could be assembled as Space Wolves or Blood Angels. One kit; two different armies (since AT is supposed to be separate from AM). That aspect makes it hard to draw parallels between this release and prior releases. So is AT getting it's own release list, completely separate from the AM release list (despite model crossover) or are the two model release lists the same or mostly the same because the kits can be used for either army?

 Bull0 wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
They're releasing Militarum Tempestus before the Astra Militarum? That would mean the MT isn't simply a supplemental codex to AM then.

GW learned that they sell more copies if they call it Codex instead of supplement, so we now have several one or two unit Codices.like Codex Imperial Knights, Codex LotD and Codex Inquisition.

No, because the supplements weren't standalone before, whereas those Codexes are. If MT is standalone, then it's a codex, if it's additional units that can be taken as part of a Codex:IG/AM army, then it's a supplement. Stop stirring. They do enough shady gak without you inventing more.

Do you really expect anyone buying a 1850p LotD army? So is it really stand-alone? Or rather a glorified blown up one unit entry?

Also:

anonymous source on Faeit 212 wrote:I can confirm the reports of Astra Tempestus and Militarum leaks inside. Full stat pages and lore for the Taurox, Taurox Prime and Scions. Scions are WS 3 BS 4 Str 3 To 3 with Hot-shot Lasguns and Carapace armor. They can upgrade a number of models to have Plasma Guns, Melta Guns or Overcharged Lasguns. May take a Taurox or Chimera as dedicated transport. There is also a Scion Command Squad, but I forget the difference, they have the option of taking the Taurox Prime as dedicated transport instead.

Taurox is approx. the cost of a lone marine in a Rhino, 11 10 10 for armor and rerolls failed terrain rolls, comes mounted with an Autocannon and can hold 10 models. Taurox Prime is approx. 2 more marines in that rhino but comes with your choice of Taurox Missile Launcher, Battle Cannon or Gatling Cannon. Same armor and transport capacity as the regular model.

Other major part of the book is an apocalypse battle report between Tau and Necrons and painting guide for those beautiful Scions.

I think he is talking about this weeks WD.

The old rule of thumb was this: Whatever rocked in the last codex gets nerfed, whatever sucked gets boosted.

I figure Vendettas will take it in the face, while Rough Riders will either A) be removed or B) get a big sexy improvement. Staying the same isn't a likely option.

Ogryns are certainly going to be made more alluring, however.

 Kroothawk wrote:

Do you really expect anyone buying a 1850p LotD army? So is it really stand-alone? Or rather a glorified blown up one unit entry?

I'm not saying I'd buy the thing, but I am saying the reason why it's called a Codex is because it's technically standalone, and not "because it'll sell better".

Now, you could say they've engineered it to be standalone instead of purely supplementary because that'll sell better, but that's a lot less cynical than simply changing the name to misrepresent the thing for dodgy sales.

Wakshaani wrote:
The old rule of thumb was this: Whatever rocked in the last codex gets nerfed, whatever sucked gets boosted.

I'd agree with you if Chaos Dreadnoughts/Helbrutes haven't sucked in the last two codecies. See also Possessed and Vanguard Veterans.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
GW is pushing for each army to have at least one plastic clamshell blister character so I would be really surprised if we do not see one.

The Tyranids didn't get one, did they? Although Tyranids do seem to be the 'odd one out' in a lot of ways.

They didn't get one, but I think the only viable option would have been Deathleaper--which, purportedly, has never been a stellar selling model in Finecast or metal. Another option would have been a Broodlord I guess, but he's not an HQ.

I think with Tyranids there's a bit of a weirdness when it comes to characters.

Deathleaper would make more sense bundled as parts with a Lictor plastic. The only model I can see fitting in a clampack minisprue for Nids would be a Broodlord.

IG have some options for clampack characters- Commissar, Primaris Psyker, Ministorum Priest (which could be used by Sisters and Inquisition as well)

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
They're releasing Militarum Tempestus before the Astra Militarum? That would mean the MT isn't simply a supplemental codex to AM then.

GW learned that they sell more copies if they call it Codex instead of supplement, so we now have several one or two unit Codices.like Codex Imperial Knights, Codex LotD and Codex Inquisition.

No, because the supplements weren't standalone before, whereas those Codexes are. If MT is standalone, then it's a codex, if it's additional units that can be taken as part of a Codex:IG/AM army, then it's a supplement. Stop stirring. They do enough shady gak without you inventing more.

Do you really expect anyone buying a 1850p LotD army? So is it really stand-alone? Or rather a glorified blown up one unit entry?

Also:

anonymous source on Faeit 212 wrote:I can confirm the reports of Astra Tempestus and Militarum leaks inside. Full stat pages and lore for the Taurox, Taurox Prime and Scions. Scions are WS 3 BS 4 Str 3 To 3 with Hot-shot Lasguns and Carapace armor. They can upgrade a number of models to have Plasma Guns, Melta Guns or Overcharged Lasguns. May take a Taurox or Chimera as dedicated transport. There is also a Scion Command Squad, but I forget the difference, they have the option of taking the Taurox Prime as dedicated transport instead.

Taurox is approx. the cost of a lone marine in a Rhino, 11 10 10 for armor and rerolls failed terrain rolls, comes mounted with an Autocannon and can hold 10 models. Taurox Prime is approx. 2 more marines in that rhino but comes with your choice of Taurox Missile Launcher, Battle Cannon or Gatling Cannon. Same armor and transport capacity as the regular model.

Other major part of the book is an apocalypse battle report between Tau and Necrons and painting guide for those beautiful Scions.

I think he is talking about this weeks WD.

I bought the LOTD digital codex. You can not make a LOTD army! I'm lucky to use my 5 on foot... (BTW, seriously, the LOTD, don't waste $17 on it. You can condense the needed info to several pages, and you are looking at using only 5 to 10 tactical LOTD models... No dreds, no vehicles, no chanvce of making this an army at all, nothing else to say. ripoff, IMHO.)

krazynadechukr wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
They're releasing Militarum Tempestus before the Astra Militarum? That would mean the MT isn't simply a supplemental codex to AM then.

GW learned that they sell more copies if they call it Codex instead of supplement, so we now have several one or two unit Codices.like Codex Imperial Knights, Codex LotD and Codex Inquisition.

No, because the supplements weren't standalone before, whereas those Codexes are. If MT is standalone, then it's a codex, if it's additional units that can be taken as part of a Codex:IG/AM army, then it's a supplement. Stop stirring. They do enough shady gak without you inventing more.

Do you really expect anyone buying a 1850p LotD army? So is it really stand-alone? Or rather a glorified blown up one unit entry?

Also:

anonymous source on Faeit 212 wrote:I can confirm the reports of Astra Tempestus and Militarum leaks inside. Full stat pages and lore for the Taurox, Taurox Prime and Scions. Scions are WS 3 BS 4 Str 3 To 3 with Hot-shot Lasguns and Carapace armor. They can upgrade a number of models to have Plasma Guns, Melta Guns or Overcharged Lasguns. May take a Taurox or Chimera as dedicated transport. There is also a Scion Command Squad, but I forget the difference, they have the option of taking the Taurox Prime as dedicated transport instead.

Taurox is approx. the cost of a lone marine in a Rhino, 11 10 10 for armor and rerolls failed terrain rolls, comes mounted with an Autocannon and can hold 10 models. Taurox Prime is approx. 2 more marines in that rhino but comes with your choice of Taurox Missile Launcher, Battle Cannon or Gatling Cannon. Same armor and transport capacity as the regular model.

Other major part of the book is an apocalypse battle report between Tau and Necrons and painting guide for those beautiful Scions.

I think he is talking about this weeks WD.

I bought the LOTD digital codex. You can not make a LOTD army! I'm lucky to use my 5 on foot... (BTW, seriously, the LOTD, don't waste $17 on it. You can condense the needed info to several pages, and you are looking at using only 5 to 10 tactical LOTD models... No dreds, no vehicles, no chanvce of making this an army at all, nothing else to say. ripoff, IMHO.)

The LOTD comments made me break out my old "Eye of Terror" suppliment from long ago. I liked the way the folded four supplimental groups for Chaos(LOTD), Space Wolves(13th Company), Eldar( Ulthwe strike force), and IG(Cadian Shock Troopers) in the same book for 30 bucks.
People made some pretty sweet armies from those and they did quite well in friendly games and tournaments of the time.

Man, what's the point of the Taurox? Those stats just make it look like a Chimera Lite.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The "old" metal Stormtroopers are in as Troops right now, which is definitely new.
.

It isn't, I've spend enough time looking at the thing to know that the 4 men pack was in troops since forever and the 5 man pack with a sergeant is in elites.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:

 Turalon wrote:
So the supplement for the stormtroopers will be before the new guard book? That's odd.

I wouldn't be surprised to see stormtroopers taken out of the Guard book altogether, and kasrkin-like heavy infantry units replace them in their niche in the codex. Just a thought.

Especially if they stick to the Astra Militarium / Imperial Guard is almost all Cadian or versions of the same as they seem to be have been doing in the fluff / imagery - sadly in my view - I love all the varied Guard Regiments.......

I wouldn't worry too much about that...

The Imperial Guard "Troops" section has actually gotten bigger this past week. Lots of things that were not on the site for years or that were previously only available as single models rather than "sets" are back.
Metal Cadian Snipers and the Plasmagun/Meltagun guys? They're back.
Metal Catachan Snipers, Heavy Flamers, and Demolition Teams? Back.
Most of the Vostroyans are back.
Mordian Iron Guard squad is back.
The "old" metal Stormtroopers are in as Troops right now, which is definitely new.
Valhallan squad is back.
Steel Legion Squad, Heavy Bolter and Lascannon teams, and the Steel Legion with a plasmagun is back.
Tallarn squad is back.
Colonel Schaeffer's Last Chancers and Gaunt's Ghosts are back.

Once again, you are talking out of your posterior. Everything listed there happened months ago. For months, probably even half a year, the old storm troopers and pretty much everything there have been in the troops section.

Stop parading this as meaning anything. I tried to find evidence of just how late to the party this is but it seems nobody gave a row of buttons when it happened.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In terms of the new Taurox/Storm Trooper rules, I'm not particularly excited yet, though the idea of Taurox Primes getting Battle Cannons is quite interesting.

Honestly, the standard Taurox is probably going to be garbage. Its going to die easily at a fair expense, the weak guys inside are going to lose you points by the bucket from the explosion, and while the terrain rule is excellent I don't feel it cuts it.

The Taurox Prime on the other hand sounds great. I have zero faith the Gatling Cannon will be decent, but the potential of having your main three/four (Command can take one as a DT) squads have Battlecannon transports and the mobility and capibility to move around 12'' without high regard for terrain freely is sweet.

The option to use a Chimera instead is nice too.

Dedicated transport with Battlecannon or Gattling (Punisher?) cannon doesnt sound too shabby. If the prime is a dedicated transport.

via Faeit wrote:
I can confirm the reports of Astra Tempestus and Militarum leaks inside. Full stat pages and lore for the Taurox, Taurox Prime and Scions. Scions are WS 3 BS 4 Str 3 To 3 with Hot-shot Lasguns and Carapace armor. They can upgrade a number of models to have Plasma Guns, Melta Guns or Overcharged Lasguns. May take a Taurox or Chimera as dedicated transport. There is also a Scion Command Squad, but I forget the difference, they have the option of taking the Taurox Prime as dedicated transport instead.

Taurox is approx. the cost of a lone marine in a Rhino, 11 10 10 for armor and rerolls failed terrain rolls, comes mounted with an Autocannon and can hold 10 models. Taurox Prime is approx. 2 more marines in that rhino but comes with your choice of Taurox Missile Launcher, Battle Cannon or Gatling Cannon. Same armor and transport capacity as the regular model.

I hate the stupid Inquisition for causing the stupid freaking "Hot-Shot Lasguns" nonsense.

Oh well. I'll just use white out on it and replace it with "Hellguns" in my book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr.Omega wrote:


Once again, you are talking out of your posterior. Everything listed there happened months ago. For months, probably even half a year, the old storm troopers and pretty much everything there have been in the troops section.

Stop parading this as meaning anything. I tried to find evidence of just how late to the party this is but it seems nobody gave a row of buttons when it happened.

The Steel Legion, Vostroyans, Tallarn, and Mordians were all in "Warhammer 40,000 Collectors". And in fact you can still get to the now hidden section that they used to be in.

You can also still find the "hidden" link for Stormtroopers where they were, in fact, not Troops.

Wakshaani wrote:
The old rule of thumb was this: Whatever rocked in the last codex gets nerfed, whatever sucked gets boosted.

Ehhhhh, not really.

Most of the crap units in 4E Chaos remained crap in 6E (Dreadnoughts, raptors, beserkers, rubrics), while the decent units either got better or stayed the same (Plagues, noise marines, etc).

The Tau codex stayed mostly the same, with the exception of Broadsides.

Assault Marines, vanguard veterans are still crap (made worse, in the case of Vanguard vets), while most of the strong units remained the same.

Most of the aspect warriors are mediocre to crap in the 6E Eldar codex, while jetbikes are better than ever.

etc.

I've realized that there is no real "pattern" as to how GW balances things. History shows that GW doesn't really reverse the power-level of units in codices from edition to edition, and history also shows that they don't consistently make new units powerful either (the only good flyer released in 6E has been the Heldrake, and while the Wraithknight and Riptide are awesome, Centurions are decent to mediocre, and the exocrine and haruspex are meh).

 Melcavuk wrote:
Dedicated transport with Battlecannon or Gattling (Punisher?) cannon doesnt sound too shabby. If the prime is a dedicated transport.

Kind of what I am thinking. Command squads with a battlecannon transport would be nice and would definitely have something to compete with the chimera in terms of the better dedicated transport.