IG/Astra Militarum Rumours for April (first post updated 12th April)

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**Zweischneid**

Ravajaxe wrote:
Thank you krazynadechukr, for these alternative manufacturers I did not know about.
Well, I seen other alternatives of futuristic light transports, but these ones are nice.

The Taurox pictures raised more than disappointment : rejection, on various forums. I do not like it at all, among others.
I know it is a bit soon to say that, but the Taurox may reveal a bad move for GW.
I mean, why pay the GW's price for a Taurox, when nicer futuristic light transport are plentiful elsewhere ?
If there is a niche in using this light transport despite its unimpressive profile, it will open a breech for alternatives to be played in 40k.
In my opinion, there were many light transport of brands X/Y/Z, while not fitting alternatives for the Chimera, that just waited for a rule support from GW.
GW is just opening the doors for them !

???

The Chimera is wide open to people using just about historical/military miniature-kit, say for the M2 A2 Bradley, the SPZ Marder, etc..

Arguably, that's always (formerly?) been the point of the IG as a whole... get people from the historical collection/wargaming side into the 40K-threadmill, possibly with their miniatures.

The new Astra Militarum releases no longer truly allow this. Yes, there are a few specialized not-GW kits that can be substituted, but nothing even remotely comparable to the historical tank-model kit market that competes with "old-school" IG kits. The "alternative kit" options are far, far, far, far more limited (and closer to GW in price too).

Spoiler:

That said, Guard Players aren't price sensitive... Before Forge World discovered the Horus Heresy, they ran 95% of their business on overpriced IG-tank variants. DKOK-armies, etc.., Nobody throws insane money at GW like IG-players

**H.B.M.C.**

Red__Thirst wrote:
Do you play Catachan? Get X and Y additional rules at the expense of losing Z thing/rule.

Do you play Valhallan? Get X special order but may never issue Y general order.

Do you play Vostroyan? Infantry squads may purchase X squad upgrade not normally available if you choose.

No, no, no. Rules that are "Gain X and Y if you give up Z" are inherently bad because you end up in a situation where you're "giving up" something you never intended to take in the first place, so there's no actual penalty to the bonus you've chosen.

**Red__Thirst**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Red__Thirst wrote:
Do you play Catachan? Get X and Y additional rules at the expense of losing Z thing/rule.

Do you play Valhallan? Get X special order but may never issue Y general order.

Do you play Vostroyan? Infantry squads may purchase X squad upgrade not normally available if you choose.

No, no, no. Rules that are "Gain X and Y if you give up Z" are inherently bad because you end up in a situation where you're "giving up" something you never intended to take in the first place, so there's no actual penalty to the bonus you've chosen.

Just offering examples there HBMC, the point was that the Regiments get a slightly different feel for them that is optional to the player, versus just having the entire army play as either Cadians or Catachans as has been the rumor.

Heck, make it even easier and you may purchase X Regiment rules when you purchase the Company Command Squad/Company Commander and if you pay those points your army has whatever Regiments rules you chose and paid the points to purchase.

I realize I may be in the minority in the grand scheme of I.G. players around here, but I like a little flavor to my force, and would welcome the opportunity to square off against another I.G. regiment and have them be even a little bit different on the tabletop (Not drastically, obviously, as it's still guard, but it would be interesting at least).

My thoughts.

-RT-

**Rostere**

Red__Thirst wrote:

Do you play Catachan? Get X and Y additional rules at the expense of losing Z thing/rule.

Do you play Valhallan? Get X special order but may never issue Y general order.

Do you play Vostroyan? Infantry squads may purchase X squad upgrade not normally available if you choose.

etc. etc. etc.

I want the different regiments to play similar, but not exactly like each other. Did you choose to collect and paint up some Mordian Iron Guard? Then here's a neat way you can choose to use them if you like. I think tha'd be pretty awesome, personally.

YES PLEASE.

We need more of this.

**shasolenzabi**

Sorry, some models are not good at 1/72 as the doors are so small

**H.B.M.C.**

Red__Thirst wrote:
I realize I may be in the minority in the grand scheme of I.G. players around here, but I like a little flavor to my force, and would welcome the opportunity to square off against another I.G. regiment and have them be even a little bit different on the tabletop (Not drastically, obviously, as it's still guard, but it would be interesting at least).

I don't think you're in the minority. The only people arguing for less flavour in their forces are the kind of people that keep telling us that Chaos Legions shouldn't have rules (yet scream bloody murder when you suggest rolling the Blood Angels back into the standard Marine Codex). Having different flavours of Guard is a very good thing, but I'd rather they do it like the Chapter Tactics rather than tying it to special characters or to a "have X, give up Y" system.

**Ravajaxe**

Zweischneid wrote:
Ravajaxe wrote:
Thank you krazynadechukr, for these alternative manufacturers I did not know about.
Well, I seen other alternatives of futuristic light transports, but these ones are nice.

The Taurox pictures raised more than disappointment : rejection, on various forums. I do not like it at all, among others.
I know it is a bit soon to say that, but the Taurox may reveal a bad move for GW.
I mean, why pay the GW's price for a Taurox, when nicer futuristic light transport are plentiful elsewhere ?
If there is a niche in using this light transport despite its unimpressive profile, it will open a breech for alternatives to be played in 40k.
In my opinion, there were many light transport of brands X/Y/Z, while not fitting alternatives for the Chimera, that just waited for a rule support from GW.
GW is just opening the doors for them !

???

The Chimera is wide open to people using just about historical/military miniature-kit, say for the M2 A2 Bradley, the SPZ Marder, etc..

Arguably, that's always (formerly?) been the point of the IG as a whole... get people from the historical collection/wargaming side into the 40K-threadmill, possibly with their miniatures.

The new Astra Militarum releases no longer truly allow this. Yes, there are a few specialized not-GW kits that can be substituted, but nothing even remotely comparable to the historical tank-model kit market that competes with "old-school" IG kits. The "alternative kit" options are far, far, far, far more limited (and closer to GW in price too).

Spoiler:

That said, Guard Players aren't price sensitive... Before Forge World discovered the Horus Heresy, they ran 95% of their business on overpriced IG-tank variants. DKOK-armies, etc.., Nobody throws insane money at GW like IG-players

Marder and Bradley tanks are OK IFV, but are too modern, and don't fit with WH40k grimdark weird conception of dual heavy-weapon tanks with rear fire points.

Plus 1/72 scale models are way too small, while 1/48 not easily available.

Plus they don't look Valhallan !

**Red__Thirst**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Red__Thirst wrote:
I realize I may be in the minority in the grand scheme of I.G. players around here, but I like a little flavor to my force, and would welcome the opportunity to square off against another I.G. regiment and have them be even a little bit different on the tabletop (Not drastically, obviously, as it's still guard, but it would be interesting at least).

I don't think you're in the minority. The only people arguing for less flavour in their forces are the kind of people that keep telling us that Chaos Legions shouldn't have rules (yet scream bloody murder when you suggest rolling the Blood Angels back into the standard Marine Codex). Having different flavours of Guard is a very good thing, but I'd rather they do it like the Chapter Tactics rather than tying it to special characters or to a "have X, give up Y" system.

I can respect that, and truth be told, I would prefer a chapter tactics kind of set up for the Regiments.

C'est-la-vie. Guess we'll see what we can see once codex finally drops.

See y'all soon.

-Red__Thirst-

**Bull0**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
(yet scream bloody murder when you suggest rolling the Blood Angels back into the standard Marine Codex)

*Bull0 takes a deep breath*

"NEVAAAAAAAR!"

**Red__Thirst**

Bull0 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
(yet scream bloody murder when you suggest rolling the Blood Angels back into the standard Marine Codex)

*Bull0 takes a deep breath*

"NEVAAAAAAAR!"

As a fellow Blood Angels player, I echo and endorse Bull0's statement. Also, hoping we get some more news and info on rules and models coming out this week. When does the weekly white dwarf go on sale again?

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

**Kroothawk**

More from the same source:

anonymous source on Faeit 212 wrote:The battle cannon on the Taurox Prime is a 'Taurox Battle Cannon'. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but it is just Str 7 Ap4 Blast. It can be upgraded for the price of a sergeant to the Gatling Cannon which is Heavy 10 Str 4 AP - or a further sergeant to get the Missile Launcher which is your standard Heavy 2 Frag/Krak combo. The Prime also comes with a mounted Hotshot Volley Gun like the Scions can take which is TL Salvo 2/4 Str 4 Ap 3. Both the Taurox and Taurox prime have 2 additional firing points.

Scions also come with Deep Strike and Move Through Cover. 5 of them come in at the same cost as a 5 man marine tac squad, additional models are 1 Eldar Ranger each. The Scion command squad is the same cost as a 5 man Assault squad, can be upgraded with a Medic, Vox Caster and Banner. The Tempestor is Ldr 9 and all Tempestus squads within 18 inches can use his leadership for morale, pinning, etc. In addition, the Tempestor is considered a junior officer and can give 1 command as per current IG rules. Any command squad models not upgraded may replace their Hotshot Lasguns with Hotshot Volley Guns, Meltaguns or Plasma Guns.

And the Taurox Prime can be taken by regular Scions as well, I had made an error in the previous bit.

**Kanluwen**

Hotshot Volley Gun sounds like a Nerf gun.

**Anpu42**

Kanluwen wrote:
Hotshot Volley Gun sounds like a Nerf gun.

Unless you are Marine

**H.B.M.C.**

Oh Christ can we just use the points values! AHHH!!!

**CthuluIsSpy**

What exactly is a "hot-shot volley gun?"

Is it meant to be some sort of laser shot-gun or automatic lasrifle?

**scarletsquig**

It's a Warhammer Empire Helblaster Volley Gun.

Codex author finally ran out of crappy names for things and started thumbing through the Warhamster books to find something to borrow, changing the name a little to make it sound more stupid while he was at it.

**Kanluwen**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
What exactly is a "hot-shot volley gun?"

Is it meant to be some sort of laser shot-gun or automatic lasrifle?

It's a Cruddace creation. It's probably a bunch of "hotshot" lasguns duct taped together and put in a turret.

**General Hobbs**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Seems like a modern take on the Chimero/Chimadon/Chimerax, without making them Chimera variants.

General Hobbs wrote:
Are you kidding? LATD was one of the more overpowered cheese lists back in 3rd and 4th edition. I was very happy when it went away.

So you're ok with people with LatD lists losing their armies?

Ok then...

Yeah, actually, I was. Ok with losing their army as it had previously been made. I'd have been ok with a LATD list that didn't allow Daemon Princes and Blood thirsters to pop up. It was a broken list. And they didn't "lose" their army, they could always play traitor guard or make a daemon army etc. There will eventually be a nerf bat taken to Eldar, Riptides, Heldrakes etc. Will those people be "losing" their armies?

**H.B.M.C.**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
What exactly is a "hot-shot volley gun?"

It's the "people already own models for this, so let's create a new weapon that they don't have so they have to get them" gun. They've done it in the past (Fusion weapons on Stealth Suits, the Tesla Cannons on Immortals).

**BlaxicanX**

I'm not blaming Cruddace for this one. Codex authors don't get to make new things, just write the stats for them and the existing ones.

It sounds completely ridiculous though. "Hot-shot volley gun"? Really? Between these ridiculous new names for everything and the look of the new Ogryns, I'm really wondering what sort of theme GW is trying to make for the Guard.

**H.B.M.C.**

General Hobbs wrote:
And they didn't "lose" their army, they could always play traitor guard or make a daemon army

Yeah, 'cause all my mutants, Chaos Marines and Daemons sure make a great Traitor Guard army.

Yes. People lost their armies. Just like Inquisitorial players lost their armies when the DH and WH Codices went away. 'Counts As' is not a solution. I mean, if Blood Angels got rolled into the Marine 'Dex you wouldn't tell them to just 'Counts As'. People with LatD lost their armies. Just because you thought the army was broken doesn't make that any less true.

BlaxicanX wrote:
... Codex authors don't get to make new things...

Where are you getting that from?

**Mr.Omega**

Well, the Battle Cannon sucks. You're a pillock If you take it.

Honestly, the TL HSVG sounds the best option, the Gatling cannon sounds about as crap as expected. 4 TL S4 AP3 shots at BS4 is interesting and reasonable for a transport.

Not sure about stormies. 130 points for a ten man squad with no upgrades is an improvement, though losing infiltrate and scout sucks, and relying on Deep strike, presumably with 2D6, isn'y great.

**BlaxicanX**

It's GW who makes the models. The codex authors just write the rules for them. I doubt Phil Kelly called GW Corporate and put fourth the idea of the Wraithknight.

**H.B.M.C.**

BlaxicanX wrote:
It's GW who makes the models. The codex authors just write the rules for them. I doubt Phil Kelly called GW Corporate and put fourth the idea of the Wraithknight.

Wait... you think GW Corporate put forth the idea of the Wraithknight rather than the guys who design the game?

No.

GW and the "Codex authors" aren't separate entities. The design studio is a singular group, and will include the miniature and rules designers who would work in concert with one another to create units.

**BlaxicanX**

So you think Phil Kelly did call up Games Workshop and say "hey guys, I got this great idea for a new unit for Eldar, you should make a model for it"?

**Ravajaxe**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Oh Christ can we just use the points values! AHHH!!!

This would be much clearer. Some people think of point values as a bastion of editor's IP material. It's just a mere numerical value.
Not intricate rules with actual content, or photographs. They will be spread all over the forums in lists section anyway !

So if I'm not mistaken :
Scion squad : 70 points for 5 dudes with hellguns (apparently sergeant is included).
additional scion model : 12 points each

Scion command squad : 85 points for 5 dudes, the boss included (Tempestor @ Ld:9)

The price is not as steep as in V5 codex.

**H.B.M.C.**

BlaxicanX wrote:
So you think Phil Kelly did call up Games Workshop and say "hey guys, I got this great idea for a new unit for Eldar, you should make a model for it"?

Why would Phil Kelly need to "call up" Games Workshop and pitch an idea? He works for them. It would have likely been a bunch of people - the main concept artists/miniature designers as well as rules creators that came up with the concepts.

**BlaxicanX**

So are you saying that the Wraithknight was Phil Kelly's idea, or not? Saying "he had a hand in it" isn't really answering the question.

I think it's likely that, as a rules creator, he probably had a hand in creating the rules for it. But it's Games Workshop who submits the idea of having a new unit in the first place. No rules creator or artist can introduce the concept of a new thing, it's the corporate part of GW that says "We want something new in the Eldar codex to sell to Eldar players- get the sculpters and writers to whip us up something".

Case in point, iirc you wrote some parts of the Lathe Worlds book. But did you give FFG the idea of the Lathe Worlds book in the first place, or was writing it a task given to you by Fantasy Flight Games?

**Bronzefists42**

I'm tempted to get a bunch of those Aliens inspired APCs, paint them in Pre-Heresy World Eater colors and just use them as rhinos.

EDIT: aw it's twice as expensive

... well as of now I guess.

**Azreal13**

BlaxicanX wrote:
So are you saying that the Wraithknight was Phil Kelly's idea, or not? Saying "he had a hand in it" isn't really answering the question.

I think it's likely that, as a rules creator, he probably had a hand in creating the rules for it. But it's Games Workshop who submits the idea of having a new unit in the first place. No rules creator or artist can introduce the concept of a new thing, it's the corporate part of GW that says "We want something new in the Eldar codex to sell to Eldar players- get the sculpters and writers to whip us up something".

Case in point, iirc you wrote some parts of the Lathe Worlds book. But did you give FFG the idea of the Lathe Worlds book in the first place, or was writing it a task given to you by Fantasy Flight Games?

What the hell is 'Games Workshop' in this context?!

I've got this weird idea that you think there's some immense dragon sat on a pile of money somewhere in Lenton.

Conventional wisdom says the design studio makes the model, then the writers create the rules to fit, but I'm sure there's examples where it has worked the other way around.