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So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

A very lackluster release.

Ive always wanted a guard army and this honestly makes me want one less

BrotherVord wrote:
A very lackluster release.

Ive always wanted a guard army and this honestly makes me want one less

I think this has been true of every single release since the Necrons, honestly. I, for example, got super excited about the last Chaos release, as Chaos has always been my favorite 40k army. The Hell-chicken and Mopey-fiend and Mutilators-of-my-eyes (and hopes and dreams) caused me to pass almost completely. I only picked up the Aspiring Champ single-sprue guy, since he is very much like the awesome DV stuff.

-C6

Im a critic and hate the Tarox but like the looks of everything else so far.

Anybody else really worried we're going to be randomly rolling for what orders our commanders get?

Because as far as I know, the only time we get cards is for things that are randomly rolled, like psychic powers.

I REALLY do not want to have to randomly determine orders every game with a dice roll. Especially for orders like these that all look really handy.

Also, if we're getting tank commanders, maybe it will unlock a squadron of russes as troops or something? Its no armored battle group, but I'd take it since nobody I ever met would play against FW.

I still can't fathom WHY they would think it was a good idea to change the name.

I mean, I can kind of see a very bad argument that "Imperial Guard is too generic and therefore 3rd parties can use it on their bits"... but that is a terrible argument.
1: the CHS case has shown that 3rd parties can use even the trademarked names if they are careful with the wording.
2: If that was the case, they should have also done that with Space Marines and renamed them to Adeptus Astartes - which probably would have had much wider fan support.
3: it changes the name of one of their most popular armies, reducing the brand recognition. Especially important for people buying online or from FLGS, and for relatives/parents who are used to looking for 'Imperial Guard'
4: It adds expenses in terms of repackaging everything under the new name, possibly new product codes, changes to their website...

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Anybody else really worried we're going to be randomly rolling for what orders our commanders get?

Because as far as I know, the only time we get cards is for things that are randomly rolled, like psychic powers.

I REALLY do not want to have to randomly determine orders every game with a dice roll. Especially for orders like these that all look really handy.

Also, if we're getting tank commanders, maybe it will unlock a squadron of russes as troops or something? Its no armored battle group, but I'd take it since nobody I ever met would play against FW.

Not to mention the sheer volume of possible models that may be able to issue orders you'd need to keep track of in some lists...

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Again it comes down to the question of do they know they changed it, and do they even care?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Anybody else really worried we're going to be randomly rolling for what orders our commanders get?

Because as far as I know, the only time we get cards is for things that are randomly rolled, like psychic powers.

I REALLY do not want to have to randomly determine orders every game with a dice roll. Especially for orders like these that all look really handy.

Also, if we're getting tank commanders, maybe it will unlock a squadron of russes as troops or something? Its no armored battle group, but I'd take it since nobody I ever met would play against FW.

The cards are for reference. I HIGHLY doubt you will be rolling for orders.

 Happygrunt wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Anybody else really worried we're going to be randomly rolling for what orders our commanders get?

Because as far as I know, the only time we get cards is for things that are randomly rolled, like psychic powers.

I REALLY do not want to have to randomly determine orders every game with a dice roll. Especially for orders like these that all look really handy.

Also, if we're getting tank commanders, maybe it will unlock a squadron of russes as troops or something? Its no armored battle group, but I'd take it since nobody I ever met would play against FW.

The cards are for reference. I HIGHLY doubt you will be rolling for orders.

I can feel you tempting fate all the way up here in Minnesota.

If we get randomly rolled orders I'm blaming it on you.

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Because it is cool looking, and FW still makes their enclosed versions.

 Happygrunt wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Anybody else really worried we're going to be randomly rolling for what orders our commanders get?

Because as far as I know, the only time we get cards is for things that are randomly rolled, like psychic powers.

I REALLY do not want to have to randomly determine orders every game with a dice roll. Especially for orders like these that all look really handy.

Also, if we're getting tank commanders, maybe it will unlock a squadron of russes as troops or something? Its no armored battle group, but I'd take it since nobody I ever met would play against FW.

The cards are for reference. I HIGHLY doubt you will be rolling for orders.

Yeah, it is handy to have the cards and be able to put them on units so you know what orders you have given already. They help avoid that "I forgot to give orders!" moment.

Trasvi wrote:
I still can't fathom WHY they would think it was a good idea to change the name...

registered, trademark, copyright laws... cheaoer and easier to let got of imoerial guard trademark and get a copyright on astra blah blah.....damn beers kicked in....spelling went to sgit

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Because it is cool looking, and FW still makes their enclosed versions.

Not for long. FW tends to stop making stuff once there's a plastic kit (sales drop to near-zero, or so they claim), and the FW Hydra kit suffers from horrible casting quality issues.

 Peregrine wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Because it is cool looking, and FW still makes their enclosed versions.

Not for long. FW tends to stop making stuff once there's a plastic kit (sales drop to near-zero, or so they claim), and the FW Hydra kit suffers from horrible casting quality issues.

I've got 3 of 'em, and the things I had to do to the poor chimera kit to get them to fit were...unspeakable XD

That said, I vastly prefer the enclosed turret look and certainly prefer a non-open topped tank rules-wise.

They refer to the Imperial Guard and the AM within the leake WD articles, so I really don't think that IG have been utterly expunged from the GW consciousness.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I've got 3 of 'em, and the things I had to do to the poor chimera kit to get them to fit were...unspeakable XD

For me it's the other way around. The hull parts that go on the Chimera fit just fine, but the gun barrels were badly warped (and straightening all four of them to be perfectly parallel is a huge pain) and all of the detail on the "back" part of the guns was miscast. Straight lines were a wavy mess, the two halves of the mold were badly offset, etc.

 plastictrees wrote:
They refer to the Imperial Guard and the AM within the leake WD articles, so I really don't think that IG have been utterly expunged from the GW consciousness.

Like I've said, I don't think they intend to.

It sounds like this is just a product rebranding, not a massive change to the fluff. Astra Militarum may just be to Imperial Guard what Adeptus Astartes is to Space Marines. There are two possible reasons Codex: Space Marines remained Codex: Space Marines. The most likely is that it's their flagship property, so they were less willing to mess with the formula. They sell a ton of Space Marines so they A: don't have any incentive to rebrand it, or B: don't even want to risk trying to rebrand it. The second possible reason is that the idea of rebranding didn't come about until after it was too late in the design process to change the Space Marines. I guess we'll see whenever we get the next Codex: Space Marines.

But realistically, this just has many of the signs of an intentional rebranding. Maybe to make it sound more sci-fiey? Maybe just to make it sound cooler? Imperial Guard isn't very exciting. Who wants to guard things? Astra Militarum is fairly eye catching.


I dunno. But it seems fairly clear that the "Imperial Guard" aren't going anywhere. They're just getting a second, fancier, fake-Latin name that doesn't really translate all that well.

 krazynadechukr wrote:
I am not sure if this was posted yet -

"Tempestus Scions can be taken as part of an Astra Militarum force, but they can also be fielded as a complete army using the rules in Codex: Militarum Tempestus..."

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=13800114-gws

So scion codex is good if you want a scion army, but guard codex will have them as an entry for an elites choice!

Don't need 2 codexes afterall!

Exactly! This creates another Adepta Sororitas. yet it doesn't favor Arbites fans (Regardless that Arbitators may wear and use advanced gear Scions have). It DOES however, rebrand Stormtroops instead.

Can normal IG Command Squad takes Scion guardian

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

I would probably extend the turret armour to the side to surround the gunner somewhat, and also put a couple of plates where the handrails are in the rear, to give some kind of illusion of protection. Many WW2-era vehicles such as tank destroyers and AA guns had only partially enclosed cabs, if they had big guns or high rate of fire, to help to ventilate the gun smoke. Of course the Hydra the guns are outside, but..

The WD text is pretty funny to read. "Hydra is built for stealth.." - right, a stealthy quad AA with a huge turret, blasting rounds to the sky at massive pace. Then there's a mention of "Huge ejection ports on the Wyvern" which are the stock Hydra ejection ports, and there's a clip that would hold maybe two Wyvern rounds judging from the barrel size..

Oh well, at least it's a lot better kit than the StormPig. Not too much converting needed to make it good.

General Hobbs wrote:

Have we seen the heads in the red box?

Right is from the hellhound and left is from the baneblade

Psychic cards have a power number 1-6 on them and a primarus so I don't think they are random. I could see them being purchased individually, or specific orders being picked when psychic powers are rolled. The big news with the orders card is that there is no card for bring it down or fire on my target. I'm pretty sure that means those orders are gone.

It looks like the poor wyvern got prematurely pooped on. A 333% dakka increase now has it outgunning Griffons, collosus, and even thud guns. Sure it's redundant and does a job other igunits already does well, but it's now better than the units it wants to replace.

The wyvern is the laziest "dual-kit" thus far. Litterally the exact same ast the hydra but w/o the barrels for the guns.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Because it is cool looking, and FW still makes their enclosed versions.

Not for long. FW tends to stop making stuff once there's a plastic kit (sales drop to near-zero, or so they claim), and the FW Hydra kit suffers from horrible casting quality issues.

I've got 3 of 'em, and the things I had to do to the poor chimera kit to get them to fit were...unspeakable XD

That said, I vastly prefer the enclosed turret look and certainly prefer a non-open topped tank rules-wise.

Personally, I don't mind open topped on the hydra, if the price drops or we get interceptor on them instead. Open topped doesn't really have a ton of effect anyways, as either it will be taking glancing hits, or hit with a S7 or better weapon which tends to be higher AP as well.

 PuddlePirate wrote:
The wyvern is the laziest "dual-kit" thus far. Litterally the exact same ast the hydra but w/o the barrels for the guns.

They did the same thing for many of the Shadowsword variants. And on the plus side, it will make it trivially easy to swap between the two tanks.

Hmmm, Wyvern=Thudd-gun on a vehicle
Cards, tried in 2nd ed, dropped in 3rd ed, and on w/o cards till 6th ed. Why? because other games are doing it? that makes GW again losing an are they claimed innovations in.

I will still call my army IG not Amil to avoid confusion with Ad-Mech, it was Imperial Guard back in 1988 till now, a long time to make such a change that rolls clumsily off the tongue compared to IG

Open backed weapon controls on wyvern/hydra, Hmmm, I would box them off with sheet-plastic and add in rivets.

Taurox, was it really needed? why not a variant of Chimera?

 schadenfreude wrote:
A 333% dakka increase now has it outgunning Griffons, collosus, and even thud guns.

Not really. Four shots twin-linked is only 50% more than a single twin-linked 5" shot from a Griffon but has all of the problems of a small blast template, the re-roll to wound goes entirely into making up for the low STR, and ignoring cover isn't all that impressive when barrage weapons already ignore cover. Depending on the cost it will probably be about equal with the Griffon for killing light infantry, fail to compete with the Colossus for killing MEQs in cover, and be a sad joke compared to the thudd guns that have the same four blasts (you did bring your divination inquisitor, right?), better STR, better pinning, and much better durability.

Also, remember that the Griffon is currently considered a reasonably cost-effective infantry killer but doesn't see much use because you need to get more than a decent light infantry killer out of your precious heavy support slots. Lasguns already kill infantry, heavy support needs to be able to deal with tanks/MCs and elite infantry. A slight improvement on the Griffon in some situations is far from a guarantee that it will see any real use.

I can not hold back my enthusiasm for the idea of having a Tank commander.

That is just fantastic all-around.

As a Tyranid player who enjoys a swarm of lil' guys and Venomthrope protection, I have to say that the Wyvern is, like, my *nightmare* incarnate.

Just throwing that out there.

*sniffles and strokes the lil' Armor 6 'gants and 'gaunts*

looking to be an interesting release.

orders are FANTASITIC!

3 shots at range 12' and with hot shots, yes please!

I really doubt it will be random for the orders.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Psychic cards have a power number 1-6 on them and a primarus so I don't think they are random. I could see them being purchased individually, or specific orders being picked when psychic powers are rolled. The big news with the orders card is that there is no card for bring it down or fire on my target. I'm pretty sure that means those orders are gone.

Well, we have seen 6 of the 9 cards. Incoming! is likely gone, but Bring it Down!, Fire on my Target!, and Get Back in the Fight! may be the missing 3.

 easysauce wrote:
3 shots at range 12' and with hot shots, yes please!

Range 9" not 12". rapid fire is half range, not 12"

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Again it comes down to the question of do they know they changed it, and do they even care?

Best point in this thread (no sarcasm).

The hydra being open-topped has some sort of purpose for GW. Either it's cheaper to make and/or harder for people to convert/kitbash with. I think that's the policy with which GW designs most of their models these days.