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 Harriticus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Again it comes down to the question of do they know they changed it, and do they even care?

Best point in this thread (no sarcasm).

The hydra being open-topped has some sort of purpose for GW. Either it's cheaper to make and/or harder for people to convert/kitbash with. I think that's the policy with which GW designs most of their models these days.

Or option 3, it looks cooler that way. Or option 4, to differentiate it from the FW model.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Again it comes down to the question of do they know they changed it, and do they even care?

Best point in this thread (no sarcasm).

The hydra being open-topped has some sort of purpose for GW. Either it's cheaper to make and/or harder for people to convert/kitbash with. I think that's the policy with which GW designs most of their models these days.

Or option 3, it looks cooler that way. Or option 4, to differentiate it from the FW model.

Oh sweet summer child, you understand not how the beast thinks.

AM = IG = confusing.

There was really no point in muddying things up. : /

Does it matter? We will all call them IG anyway. We will confuse the new players until they call the AM the IG.

GW will then sue us all for not following their naming convention. We will be banned from GW events unless we use proper naming conventions.

The great IG Heresy will follow with the Imperium of Man split between the loyalist IG and the Chaos following AM. Blood will flow.

There is only war.

It says that there are nine cards covering each of the orders. I wonder what the other three orders will be?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Again it comes down to the question of do they know they changed it, and do they even care?

Best point in this thread (no sarcasm).

The hydra being open-topped has some sort of purpose for GW. Either it's cheaper to make and/or harder for people to convert/kitbash with. I think that's the policy with which GW designs most of their models these days.

Or option 3, it looks cooler that way. Or option 4, to differentiate it from the FW model.

I'm wondering why they'd need to differentiate it from the FW model, especially considering the FW model was based on the EPIC model which was not open topped either.

Either special character-only, or maybe tank related.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Again it comes down to the question of do they know they changed it, and do they even care?

Best point in this thread (no sarcasm).

The hydra being open-topped has some sort of purpose for GW. Either it's cheaper to make and/or harder for people to convert/kitbash with. I think that's the policy with which GW designs most of their models these days.

Or option 3, it looks cooler that way. Or option 4, to differentiate it from the FW model.

I'm wondering why they'd need to differentiate it from the FW model, especially considering the FW model was based on the EPIC model which was not open topped either.

Because they have stopped doing straight copies of FW models, like they used to with the Sky Ray, Valkyrie, and Trygon.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Again it comes down to the question of do they know they changed it, and do they even care?

Best point in this thread (no sarcasm).

The hydra being open-topped has some sort of purpose for GW. Either it's cheaper to make and/or harder for people to convert/kitbash with. I think that's the policy with which GW designs most of their models these days.

Or option 3, it looks cooler that way. Or option 4, to differentiate it from the FW model.

I imagine they'll do it the same way they currently do artillery tanks. Pay extra and it can be closed. That way, they'll keep selling the closed top Hydra and also have the open topped one sold by GW themselves.

Some nice models there, I'm not a fan of the new Cadian scheme with the dark green trousers and khaki tops, not sure why it just looks a bit off. They seem to have trouble with use of colour in the studio recently.
Having said that, credit where it is due the blue/grey camouflaged wyvern crew are some spectacular painting work, the detail on the commanders map especially.

Not sure if it is mentioned, and we have only seen bits, but there is a distinct lack of Catachan in the various descriptions and pictures.which seems odd. Valhallans and Steel legion, which have no models any more, Tanith, which never did, but no catachan, which still do.
Catachan supplement anyone?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
That way, they'll keep selling the closed top Hydra and also have the open topped one sold by GW themselves.

This is extremely unlikely. When GW released the plastic Manticore kit the old FW Manticore went OOP (supposedly sales for it dropped to almost nothing), and the FW Hydra kit suffers from severe casting problems that guarantee that few people will miss it. The vast majority of FW's Hydra sales are because there's no plastic kit, not because anyone actually likes it. If you're masochistic enough to want to experience the "fun" of building a FW Hydra you'd better buy it now, before they're all gone.

 Peregrine wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
That way, they'll keep selling the closed top Hydra and also have the open topped one sold by GW themselves.

This is extremely unlikely. When GW released the plastic Manticore kit the old FW Manticore went OOP (supposedly sales for it dropped to almost nothing), and the FW Hydra kit suffers from severe casting problems that guarantee that few people will miss it. The vast majority of FW's Hydra sales are because there's no plastic kit, not because anyone actually likes it.

Don't "casting problems" just mean the master model has to go back to the design studio for work and recasting?

Either way, it was just a thought, the same way Basilisks and Medusas have open and closed top variants.

Has the wyvern pic been revealed yet?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Again it comes down to the question of do they know they changed it, and do they even care?

Best point in this thread (no sarcasm).

The hydra being open-topped has some sort of purpose for GW. Either it's cheaper to make and/or harder for people to convert/kitbash with. I think that's the policy with which GW designs most of their models these days.

Or option 3, it looks cooler that way. Or option 4, to differentiate it from the FW model.

I imagine they'll do it the same way they currently do artillery tanks. Pay extra and it can be closed. That way, they'll keep selling the closed top Hydra and also have the open topped one sold by GW themselves.

As long as the points cost for closing the top is reasonable, that'd probably work.

Then again, if they made the points cost exorbitant, everyone would prefer open topped, making it difficult to use the old Hydra model as a stand in, as WYSIWYG it would need to be converted to be open topped (whereas if there isn't an option for it, no one will care about a stand in model...). Maybe that's just my inner skeptic talking.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Don't "casting problems" just mean the master model has to go back to the design studio for work and recasting?

Who knows. Whatever the reason is the Hydra has been notoriously bad for a long time. Even FW's own books show Hydra models with obvious problems.

Either way, it was just a thought, the same way Basilisks and Medusas have open and closed top variants.

It could be maybe, if the kit wasn't so badly flawed. The enclosed artillery tanks are awesome kits that are (IMO) even better than the plastic Basilisk, and a lot of people will gladly buy them. But I can't see anyone buying the FW Hydra now that a plastic kit exists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

angryboy2k wrote:
Has the wyvern pic been revealed yet?

Yes. All of the WD pics have been posted.

 Peregrine wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:
Has the wyvern pic been revealed yet?

Yes. All of the WD pics have been posted.

Thanks, didn't go back far enough to check.

Javin wrote:
Does it matter? We will all call them IG anyway. We will confuse the new players until they call the AM the IG.

GW will then sue us all for not following their naming convention. We will be banned from GW events unless we use proper naming conventions.

The great IG Heresy will follow with the Imperium of Man split between the loyalist IG and the Chaos following AM. Blood will flow.

There is only war.

I guess it all depends how much "Imperial Guard" is used in the actual Codex. At present AM and Imperial Guard are being used fairly interchangably in the White Dwarf articles.

Maybe they are just trying to soft talk and woo us into accepting the new title!

Is someone really interested in the game itself or is it just...

Oooooh, what a bunch of morons, they made it open topped!

Oooooh, what a bunch of morons, they have wrong color scheme!

Ooooooooh, what a bunch of morons, I cant see in the photos of WD Catachans, they retconned Catachans!

Ahem... I think there will be some stumbling with whole AM/ IG thing, because it seems they keep both parts for the army. I like the fact warlord can be in tank, that there will be tank orders, that there are great new infantry orders (just keep Bring it Down! please)... So far, from the few little pieces, we've seen I like it. And they didnt even forget on Tanith, there are Elysians, old regiments are still there (yeah, we dont see Cadians and Catachans...maybe they are on other damned page?)

And Wyvern is interesting...even I wont use him, because of my Basilisks

 Peregrine wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Don't "casting problems" just mean the master model has to go back to the design studio for work and recasting?

Who knows. Whatever the reason is the Hydra has been notoriously bad for a long time. Even FW's own books show Hydra models with obvious problems.

Either way, it was just a thought, the same way Basilisks and Medusas have open and closed top variants.

It could be maybe, if the kit wasn't so badly flawed. The enclosed artillery tanks are awesome kits that are (IMO) even better than the plastic Basilisk, and a lot of people will gladly buy them. But I can't see anyone buying the FW Hydra now that a plastic kit exists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

angryboy2k wrote:
Has the wyvern pic been revealed yet?

Yes. All of the WD pics have been posted.

Yeah, I know at one time I wanted to order FW models and they were listed as out of stock, so I sent an email asking when they'd come back and was told the moulds were in bad shape so they'd been sent back to the design studio for fixing and would be back in the store after a few weeks.

So having bad moulds isn't the end of the line for the model... unless they just don't want to continue it which is entirely possible as well.

 Happygrunt wrote:
Pics for pics god!..
...

Is the HB turret already in the Chimera MK2 kit?

I guess so from the lack of comments.

Other than that this looks like the new IG (for it is IG!) will be a ripsnorter. May Armoured Companies dominate the battlefield for evar moar!

Pask may become a must pick?

 notprop wrote:


Is the HB turret already in the Chimera MK2 kit?

I guess so from the lack of comments.

Yup. And there's a heavy flamer in there to boot.

I think I might be picking up one or two of these sets if it's discounted against buying a chimera and some grunts separately. Going by the American pricing of $60 it looks like it will be a tad cheaper. Anyone know what price that will be in £?

These will help army builders massively and looks like GW wants people to invest in armoured company - even though tanks are a bit easier to get rid of in the 6th ed meta.

Who cares how easy they are to get rid of If I'm rockin 10+ LRs!!

With that many tanks on the battlefield I wouldn't even have to get close to wining, just one complete fusillade of Battle Cannon fire would warm my heart.

It would take Leaf Blower to a whole new level, I dub thee Armoured Leaf Blower!

 Harriticus wrote:


Best point in this thread (no sarcasm).

The hydra being open-topped has some sort of purpose for GW. Either it's cheaper to make and/or harder for people to convert/kitbash with. I think that's the policy with which GW designs most of their models these days.

Probably due to sprue constraints - to maximize the detail / design without adding another sprue. I suppose it's the same reason why there are no separate mortar bits.

It seems that being cost effective has become one of the major factors with GW design work. I've thought that some of the recent designs feel like they are done on a tight schedule, which also would fit the scheme. Obviously it's smart for a business to maximize the efficiency, but I'm afraid it shows in the quality and leads to a "toy company vibe" - as in, it might feel they are underestimating their customers.

Why did GW make the hydra open topped? I can think of lots of good reasons.

It's a duel kit with an open topped wyvern which is going to sell very well.

Too many people were kit bashing hydras out of Chimera and aegis lines. If an open topped hydra costs 60, closed top is 75, and you're going to play in a strict wysiwyg tournament/meta it looks like your closed top hydra will be converted back to a chimera and someone is going to buy a new hydra that's only 80% of the cost of an old hydra.

Kit bashing from aegis defence line was never a problem for GW : they sold two kits, profit !

I think they move away from the enclosed compartment Hydra because of all the alternative small manufacturers that have taken market share from them, by producing more attractive models than FW Hydra. They were all closed compartment. Changing the Hydra design helps them escape these resin competitors who have been quicker at releasing the tank. On top of that, it was in a time when Hydra was amazingly effective for its points, and in high demand. I can show you some of these alternatives, if anybody wants.

Making an open-top resin alternative with detailed sights, control console and two crewmen would be much more difficult. They can be quiet : I guess no alternative manufacturer will dare to follow now. The new Hydra looks excellent on top of that.

I notice that the "take aim" order says:

"When resolving this shooting attack, all models in the ordered unit have the Precision Shot special rule"

Now, Precision Shot is NOT a special rule, a Precision Shot is where you can allocate the wound yourself instead of regular wound allocation.

Precision Shots occur when a Character or a Sniper rolls a 6 to hit, but the Precision Shot itself simply means you allocate wounds.

Do you think this means that "Take Aim!" lets you allocate ALL hits that a unit makes, or only ones that roll a 6 to hit? As written, it seems that it would be the former, which would make it quite a powerful order capable of removing hidden special weapons quite effectively.

The card as shown in the WD is worded poorly, I wonder if the Codex itself is similarly poorly worded!

It seems that a rule that used to apply only to IC, now applies to general fire when that card is used.

The rule says the effect happens on a 6 when rolling to hit.

Pretty straight forward.

The horribly translated (to Spanish) Eldar codex seems to suggest in the Illic page that units with precision shot allocate wounds freely instead of following the regular rules. Don't have my BRB handy to confirm if that rule is right or the BRB disagrees tho.

M.

 Moopy wrote:
AM = IG = confusing.

There was really no point in muddying things up. : /

I really don't get why people are so confused by this. We've dealt with Space Marines being Adeptus Astartes for years, same with Sisters of Battle being Adepta Sororitas.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
I think they move away from the enclosed compartment Hydra because of all the alternative small manufacturers that have taken market share from them, by producing more attractive models than FW Hydra. They were all closed compartment. Changing the Hydra design helps them escape these resin competitors who have been quicker at releasing the tank. On top of that, it was in a time when Hydra was amazingly effective for its points, and in high demand. I can show you some of these alternatives, if anybody wants.

Making an open-top resin alternative with detailed sights, control console and two crewmen would be much more difficult. They can be quiet : I guess no alternative manufacturer will dare to follow now. The new Hydra looks excellent on top of that.

I think you're all massively over-thinking it. The Hydra is open-topped because it looks cool, not because of some bizarre attempt to get rid of third-party kits. You can't use third-party kits in a GW store regardless of what the official model looks like, and only the worst TFG is going to nitpick that your third-party Hydra model isn't open-topped. The simple truth is it's a reference to the old WWII AA tanks with their open turrets, with possibly some sprue layout or assembly concerns. Speculating about the "real" reason makes about as much sense as trying to figure out why the latest space marine has his bolter held at that exact angle.