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 Uriels_Flame wrote:

 JoeRugby wrote:

Where's my plastic thunderbolt fighter?

Rumor of one more kit for IG/ST; possible flier.

Though if the Valk/Vend rumor is true, may be not needed but cool.

I would paint them directly like P-51 mustangs.

Always wanted to paint one like Roy's fighter in robotech

Guys, Incoming, fire on my target, and bring it down are probably gone. I bet those last 3 orders we haven't seen are the tank orders

If I'm reading that right, 'Take Aim' allows you to assign all hits, including from heavy weapons and suchlike to whoever you want? That could make a lot of deathstar builds very precarious - letting you either avoid the guys with good saves or take out a lynchpin model providing buffs.

All-tank armies seem like they could be nasty, but in a game where you can take an entire army of super-heavy walkers I don't think they will stand out as the most broken option out there.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
If I'm reading that right, 'Take Aim' allows you to assign all hits, including from heavy weapons and suchlike to whoever you want? That could make a lot of deathstar builds very precarious - letting you either avoid the guys with good saves or take out a lynchpin model providing buffs.

All-tank armies seem like they could be nasty, but in a game where you can take an entire army of super-heavy walkers I don't think they will stand out as the most broken option out there.

No it gives the ability to assign hits if they roll 6s. Unlike eldar pathfinders where all hits are precision shots.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Guys, Incoming, fire on my target, and bring it down are probably gone. I bet those last 3 orders we haven't seen are the tank orders

See, I have heard bring it down was still in. Wouldn't mind Incoming going away, seeing as it really didn't do much. I HOPE fire on my target stays, but if it is between that or bring it down, I would much rather have bring it down.

chaos0xomega wrote:
So... still no love for the Praetorians, eh?

Who needs GW?
http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/products/victorian-guard?pagesize=12
plus maybe:
http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/products/highland-guard?pagesize=12

Pics off Itunes

The only thing I don't like about the Hydra is how far back the gunner is located; from the top-down view it appears that he is at least 3-4 feet away from the screen. Had he been placed much further forward, the whole assembly would look much more unified and user friendly. Furthermore, he's so far back that the centrifugal force would toss him off the vehicle when the turret traverses. Had he been placed closer to the targeting screen, the force would push him forward into the gun harness rather than away from it.


The Wyvren on the other hand is simply awful. They clearly were desperate to make a alternate build for the hydra, and had no particular inspiration or vision for what it would be. The only difference compared to the Hydra are that the gun barrels are swapped for stubby, large caliber ones.

1. Side-mounted large caliber guns look horrible and simply wouldn't work properly
2. They use the same gun assembly as the Hydra's autocannons, so it's clear that the Wyvren's expended shell could never fit out of the ejection port. (this is especially funny given they actually describe the ejection port as "cavernous" lol)
3.The magazine looks like it can hold one, maybe two rounds. This would make the Wyvern an absolute nightmare to load and fire, and the basilisk would be able to maintain a higher rate of fire using fewer crew members. There's no way the two crew members are able to work the Wyvren by themselves.

In essence, if the whole vehicle didn't tear itself apart after firing one volley, the guns would immediately jam, and once the spent shell casings were removed and the magazines reattached, they would only be able to fire one more volley before having to reload and reattach each magazine again.

Rules wise, are they any rumors for what it's shooting profile will be? Something more like the Thunderfire Cannon rather than a Whirlwind I assume?

The wyvern main armament is a mortar, mortars generally do not eject casings, they fire the entire round out of the bore. So no jamming in that respect.

 Toburk wrote:
The only thing I don't like about the Hydra is how far back the gunner is located; from the top-down view it appears that he is at least 3-4 feet away from the screen. Had he been placed much further forward, the whole assembly would look much more unified and user friendly. Furthermore, he's so far back that the centrifugal force would toss him off the vehicle when the turret traverses. Had he been placed closer to the targeting screen, the force would push him forward into the gun harness rather than away from it.


The Wyvren on the other hand is simply awful. They clearly were desperate to make a alternate build for the hydra, and had no particular inspiration or vision for what it would be. The only difference compared to the Hydra are that the gun barrels are swapped for stubby, large caliber ones.

1. Side-mounted large caliber guns look horrible and simply wouldn't work properly
2. They use the same gun assembly as the Hydra's autocannons, so it's clear that the Wyvren's expended shell could never fit out of the ejection port. (this is especially funny given they actually describe the ejection port as "cavernous" lol)
3.The magazine looks like it can hold one, maybe two rounds. This would make the Wyvern an absolute nightmare to load and fire, and the basilisk would be able to maintain a higher rate of fire using fewer crew members. There's no way the two crew members are able to work the Wyvren by themselves.

In essence, if the whole vehicle didn't tear itself apart after firing one volley, the guns would immediately jam, and once the spent shell casings were removed and the magazines reattached, they would only be able to fire one more volley before having to reload and reattach each magazine again.

Rules wise, are they any rumors for what it's shooting profile will be? Something more like the Thunderfire Cannon rather than a Whirlwind I assume?

The Rules for the wyvern are several pages back. I could probably add something snarky, but I'll let it at that.

To Ravenous D : Also discussed several pages back, the order itself confers precise shots to the entire unit shooting. Recall that the Sniper special rule confers Precise Shot on 6's. Your reading is not the same as the card is now. While it could very well be errata/FAQ 'd, right now the Take Aim order is rather brutal

 Kroothawk wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
So... still no love for the Praetorians, eh?

Who needs GW?
http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/products/victorian-guard?pagesize=12
plus maybe:
http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/products/highland-guard?pagesize=12

Don't forget Col Gravis and Curious Constructs.

 kir44n wrote:

 Toburk wrote:
The only thing I don't like about the Hydra is how far back the gunner is located; from the top-down view it appears that he is at least 3-4 feet away from the screen. Had he been placed much further forward, the whole assembly would look much more unified and user friendly. Furthermore, he's so far back that the centrifugal force would toss him off the vehicle when the turret traverses. Had he been placed closer to the targeting screen, the force would push him forward into the gun harness rather than away from it.


The Wyvren on the other hand is simply awful. They clearly were desperate to make a alternate build for the hydra, and had no particular inspiration or vision for what it would be. The only difference compared to the Hydra are that the gun barrels are swapped for stubby, large caliber ones.

1. Side-mounted large caliber guns look horrible and simply wouldn't work properly
2. They use the same gun assembly as the Hydra's autocannons, so it's clear that the Wyvren's expended shell could never fit out of the ejection port. (this is especially funny given they actually describe the ejection port as "cavernous" lol)
3.The magazine looks like it can hold one, maybe two rounds. This would make the Wyvern an absolute nightmare to load and fire, and the basilisk would be able to maintain a higher rate of fire using fewer crew members. There's no way the two crew members are able to work the Wyvren by themselves.

In essence, if the whole vehicle didn't tear itself apart after firing one volley, the guns would immediately jam, and once the spent shell casings were removed and the magazines reattached, they would only be able to fire one more volley before having to reload and reattach each magazine again.

Rules wise, are they any rumors for what it's shooting profile will be? Something more like the Thunderfire Cannon rather than a Whirlwind I assume?

The Rules for the wyvern are several pages back. I could probably add something snarky, but I'll let it at that.

To Ravenous D : Also discussed several pages back, the order itself confers precise shots to the entire unit shooting. Recall that the Sniper special rule confers Precise Shot on 6's. Your reading is not the same as the card is now. While it could very well be errata/FAQ 'd, right now the Take Aim order is rather brutal

I'm going to abuse the hell out of it and FFTE! with Cypher.

Get a 30~ man blob with Cypher, shoot, run, re-roll if low due to Cypher's conferred fleet to the entire unit, use Take Aim! To give Cypher automatic precision shots and snipe out the nastiest thugs with the heavy duty weapons easily with the 2 plasma pistol shots and 2 bolt pistol shots at BS10 and with the unit's own special weapons.

55 point prescience Inquisitor for extra pain as well.

 Mr.Omega wrote:
I'm going to abuse the hell out of it and FFTE! with Cypher.

Get a 30~ man blob with Cypher, shoot, run, re-roll if low due to Cypher's conferred fleet to the entire unit, use Take Aim! To give Cypher automatic precision shots and snipe out the nastiest thugs with the heavy duty weapons easily with the 2 plasma pistol shots and 2 bolt pistol shots at BS10 and with the unit's own special weapons.

55 point prescience Inquisitor for extra pain as well.

Pretty sure you wont be able to issue more than 1 order per turn to a unit.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
I'm going to abuse the hell out of it and FFTE! with Cypher.

Get a 30~ man blob with Cypher, shoot, run, re-roll if low due to Cypher's conferred fleet to the entire unit, use Take Aim! To give Cypher automatic precision shots and snipe out the nastiest thugs with the heavy duty weapons easily with the 2 plasma pistol shots and 2 bolt pistol shots at BS10 and with the unit's own special weapons.

55 point prescience Inquisitor for extra pain as well.

Pretty sure you wont be able to issue more than 1 order per turn to a unit.

Uh, yes, I'm aware of this obviously

Concerns of durability tend to become pretty much non-existent when even walking into crappy area terrain gives your Guardsmen a 3+ cover save with Cypher's shrouded.

Kolbalt266 wrote:
Pics off Itunes

Surprised the Inquisition is still called the Inquisition and not the Hoopidus boopidus or whatever bs.

You mean like Ordos Malleus, Hereticus and Xenos.

WayneTheGame wrote:
Worrisome is the notion that you'll be able to field an Armored Company. I remember the dark days of 3rd edition with the IG Armored Company being all kinds of broken, only this time around you don't need to ask permission before you play it.

If someone brings an armoured company and you don't wanna play it because it is completely broken or no fun to play just don't play them. You need permission to field anything, you can't force your opponents to play with you. I do the same thing with triptide players or people who spam wave serpents. I play this game for fun, if I don't see a game being fun for me I won't play it. If it hurts your feelings than too bad, maybe you should have thought about how your opponent feels before fielding the most broken army you can.

I don't think anyone is going to have too many problems against an armored company list in 6E. It's one of those things that sounds scary on paper but really is very easy to defeat unless you just try to sit there and shoot at it from across the board in a pitched gunfight.

I dunno. Armored Company implies Tanks being Troops if you are running a Tank Commander. Tanks being Troops means Tanks being Scoring. Now that dedicated transports aren't scoring in 6V, that means Imperial Guard will have the only AV 14F, AV13S scoring unit for most missions. Stick a squadron of 3 tanks on an objective, give them an Allied DA Librarian with PFG for the 4++, and you have an extremely durable unit that can sit on an objective AND shoot enemies off other objectives assuming LoS.

It won't be necessarily auto-win, but it will make winning much easier if you are playing competently.

 Happygrunt wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Guys, Incoming, fire on my target, and bring it down are probably gone. I bet those last 3 orders we haven't seen are the tank orders

See, I have heard bring it down was still in. Wouldn't mind Incoming going away, seeing as it really didn't do much. I HOPE fire on my target stays, but if it is between that or bring it down, I would much rather have bring it down.

Do we actually know that tank orders are coming? Did I miss that? Genuinely asking. If not, it seems way more likely to me we'll have junior and senior officer orders, like before. Tanks already have a heap of utility without orders. Not so infantry squads. It's also not very cinematic to have tanks perform dramatically differently because someone shouted at them down the string & tin can device the IG use in place of radio, but it fits well with boots on the ground, they're classic movie tropes - yelling "Get down!" or "Fire at will!" at squads of men and turning a firefight around, etc.

 kir44n wrote:
I dunno. Armored Company implies Tanks being Troops if you are running a Tank Commander. Tanks being Troops means Tanks being Scoring.

Not automatically. Just because a vehicle is a troop doesn't override the no scoring restriction. It doesn't for Orks (who can make Deff Dreads troops) and it doesn't for the current Forgeworld Armoured Battlegroup list. Even so, killing tanks once you close distance isn't spectacularly hard, especially if you get to the side/rear or into melee

Now that dedicated transports aren't scoring in 6V, that means Imperial Guard will have the only AV 14F, AV13S scoring unit for most missions. Stick a squadron of 3 tanks on an objective, give them an Allied DA Librarian with PFG for the 4++, and you have an extremely durable unit that can sit on an objective AND shoot enemies off other objectives assuming LoS.

even assuming they could score, if anything gets to melee range all three tanks go bye-bye just as easily as a couple chimeras would however, and they'd have to advance to take an objective in most cases putting them at greater risk of assault or an opponent DS'ing behind them or whatnot. There are other units in the game however of comparable durability/resiliency that are scoring units that don't seem to raise the same kind of ire.

 Bull0 wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Guys, Incoming, fire on my target, and bring it down are probably gone. I bet those last 3 orders we haven't seen are the tank orders

See, I have heard bring it down was still in. Wouldn't mind Incoming going away, seeing as it really didn't do much. I HOPE fire on my target stays, but if it is between that or bring it down, I would much rather have bring it down.

Do we actually know that tank orders are coming? Did I miss that? Genuinely asking. If not, it seems way more likely to me we'll have junior and senior officer orders, like before. Tanks already have a heap of utility without orders. Not so infantry squads. It's also not very cinematic to have tanks perform dramatically differently because someone shouted at them down the string & tin can device the IG use in place of radio, but it fits well with boots on the ground, they're classic movie tropes - yelling "Get down!" or "Fire at will!" at squads of men and turning a firefight around, etc.

Tank commanders, specific traits and orders 'confirmed' in one of the WD scans on page 115 of this thread.

Yeah, the game environment for vehicles in 3rd is a bit different from 6th. AC won't even be a blip.

 sierra 1247 wrote:
The wyvern main armament is a mortar, mortars generally do not eject casings, they fire the entire round out of the bore. So no jamming in that respect.

While its true that mortars generally do not eject casings, why would GW mention the vehicle's "cavernous" ejection ports?

T

 plastictrees wrote:

Tank commanders, specific traits and orders 'confirmed' in one of the WD scans on page 115 of this thread.

Cheers. This thread is impossible unless you follow it round-the-clock, and that's made harder by all the bitching. Tank orders... that's fething weird.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

timd wrote:

 sierra 1247 wrote:
The wyvern main armament is a mortar, mortars generally do not eject casings, they fire the entire round out of the bore. So no jamming in that respect.

While its true that mortars generally do not eject casings, why would GW mention the vehicle's "cavernous" ejection ports?

T

Because WD writers don't know what the feth they're talking about either?

well what if a tank HQ can give orders to troops like a company command squad? maybe that is what they meant

jae4x4 wrote:
well what if a tank HQ can give orders to troops like a company command squad? maybe that is what they meant

Generally, tanks can order tanks and infantry order infantry. At least, that is how the FW ABG list dose it, and it is beginning to sound eerily similar to what we will be getting in the main IG book.

Everybody prep for two special weapon vet squads then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kir44n wrote:
I dunno. Armored Company implies Tanks being Troops if you are running a Tank Commander. Tanks being Troops means Tanks being Scoring. Now that dedicated transports aren't scoring in 6V, that means Imperial Guard will have the only AV 14F, AV13S scoring unit for most missions. Stick a squadron of 3 tanks on an objective, give them an Allied DA Librarian with PFG for the 4++, and you have an extremely durable unit that can sit on an objective AND shoot enemies off other objectives assuming LoS.

It won't be necessarily auto-win, but it will make winning much easier if you are playing competently.

Troops dose not mean scoring. Look at ABG. The tanks are troops, yes, but they are not scoring. Unless it is explicitly stated otherwise, vehicals cannot score.

 kir44n wrote:
I dunno. Armored Company implies Tanks being Troops if you are running a Tank Commander. Tanks being Troops means Tanks being Scoring. Now that dedicated transports aren't scoring in 6V, that means Imperial Guard will have the only AV 14F, AV13S scoring unit for most missions. Stick a squadron of 3 tanks on an objective, give them an Allied DA Librarian with PFG for the 4++, and you have an extremely durable unit that can sit on an objective AND shoot enemies off other objectives assuming LoS.

It won't be necessarily auto-win, but it will make winning much easier if you are playing competently.

Except for the fact that the Armored company can take tanks as troops but they still don't score.

If IG got tanks as troops they wouldn't be able to score in the regular codex

Does anyone have any idea what vehicles from the regular Imperial Guard army Codex carry over into the new Stormtroopers' specialty Codex (Militarum Tempestus)? Do they still have Leman Russ tanks? Basilisks? Manticores?

 BrassScorpion wrote:
Does anyone have any idea what vehicles from the regular Imperial Guard army Codex carry over into the new Stormtroopers' specialty Codex (Militarum Tempestus)? Do they still have Leman Russ tanks? Basilisks? Manticores?

To my knowledge, they got Valkyries/vendettas, chimeras and the Taurox. That's it. Supposed to be more "special forces" like.