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So much rage everywhere. People quitting the game because GW made something unsuitable to them. How childish.
I find this behavior as main ruining force of 40k.

Othervise, I don't find leaked stuff trustworthy. In the book after release, it might be different.

 Tower75 wrote:
So, in conclusion, we didn't get a new tank? I do not recognise that Hydra thing as new.


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... and, the Storm Troopers everyone's been waiting for our their own army that requires a £30.00 Codex to use. Is that right? If so, I am hugely, hugely dissapoint!

The wyvern is new, and if the rumored 65 point price tag is true then they are going to be very vicious for their price.

 Hawky wrote:
So much rage everywhere. People quitting the game because GW made something they didn't like. How childish.
I find this behavior as main ruining force of 40k.

So you'd rather people who don't want to play 40k anymore still did so whilst holding the game in utter contempt? Yeah, because that would surely lead to a great community spirit! "Rage" is being grossly overused here, too, presumably because you want to paint more people as being unreasonable and worthy of being dismissed. But really, even if people were just ragequitting, I'd rather take those genuine expressions of emotion and opinions than the tedious and repetitive mewlings of the vacuous brigade of semiprofessional milksops who are making such a mockery of proceedings here.

Besides, selling off unwanted IG armies at this point is just good business. Plenty of people wanting to get onto the bandwagon, and the fool and his money are a friendship easily parted. In other words, cha-ching.

 Hawky wrote:
So much rage everywhere. People quitting the game because GW made something unsuitable to them. How childish.
I find this behavior as main ruining force of 40k.

People SAYING they'll rage quit, because they're on the internet and don't have to be held accountable to what to they say.

Take rumors with buckets of salt, which clutching your poor Medusa. I'm going to miss them.

 Tower75 wrote:
So, in conclusion, we didn't get a new tank? I do not recognise that Hydra thing as new.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
... and, the Storm Troopers everyone's been waiting for our their own army that requires a £30.00 Codex to use. Is that right? If so, I am hugely, hugely dissapoint!

No, they'll still be an Elites choice in Astra Militarum, you don't need the codex unless you want to field them as a standalone army. The info is all here in the thread.

maceria wrote:
People SAYING they'll rage quit, because they're on the internet and don't have to be held accountable to what to they say.

It's pretty hard to prove you've quit a game. What evidence do I have that I've not played 40k since November 2012? Should I take a photo of the light layer of dust on my Russes? Or one of the empty shelf that used to hold a pile of unbuilt 3rd edition Tactical Marines?

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

maceria wrote:
People SAYING they'll rage quit, because they're on the internet and don't have to be held accountable to what to they say.

It's pretty hard to prove you've quit a game. What evidence do I have that I've not played 40k since November 2012? Should I take a photo of the light layer of dust on my Russes? Or one of the empty shelf that used to hold a pile of unbuilt 3rd edition Tactical Marines?

This isnt a hate message or anything but if you dont play 40k why do do you post and talk about 40k rules etc? It just seems kind of pointless.

Just wondering, nothing negative.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

maceria wrote:
People SAYING they'll rage quit, because they're on the internet and don't have to be held accountable to what to they say.

It's pretty hard to prove you've quit a game. What evidence do I have that I've not played 40k since November 2012? Should I take a photo of the light layer of dust on my Russes? Or one of the empty shelf that used to hold a pile of unbuilt 3rd edition Tactical Marines?

This isnt a hate message or anything but if you dont play 40k why do do you post and talk about 40k rules etc? It just seems kind of pointless.

Even if you dislike the game, you might like the community.

True, im not a forum person (this is the only forum I frequent) so I dont really understand but yea I guess so.

Just curious.

 Hawky wrote:
So much rage everywhere. People quitting the game because GW made something unsuitable to them. How childish.
I find this behavior as main ruining force of 40k.

Yeah, how dare people quit when the game is no longer fun. They should just keep giving GW money because GW's needs are more important.

Othervise, I don't find leaked stuff trustworthy. In the book after release, it might be different.

That's just wishful thinking. At least one source has posted pictures of the codex, which proves that they have a copy and are quoting from it, not just passing on rumors. It would be extremely unlikely for any of the information we have now to be false.

meh, these changes are super underwhelming, and as an IG player who was already getting torn apart in the taudar/screamerstar meta looking for something interesting, I'm not happy. 6th seems to be the xenos edition, which is great for them, finally they can quit whining about it.

A new transport when I was already dumping chimeras for being fragile? Not helpful. It's ugly as sin too. A new artillery? It's not bad, may be better than the griffon, but its so similar it doesn't feel new.

I'm not really upset though, since there are so many FW units. I can just take avengers, or field the armored fist list, if GW was going to ruin any codex IG have the most options to basically ignore it thanks to FW

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

maceria wrote:
People SAYING they'll rage quit, because they're on the internet and don't have to be held accountable to what to they say.

It's pretty hard to prove you've quit a game. What evidence do I have that I've not played 40k since November 2012? Should I take a photo of the light layer of dust on my Russes? Or one of the empty shelf that used to hold a pile of unbuilt 3rd edition Tactical Marines?

Put your stuff on ebay. That'd be pretty good evidence.

 Bull0 wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

maceria wrote:
People SAYING they'll rage quit, because they're on the internet and don't have to be held accountable to what to they say.

It's pretty hard to prove you've quit a game. What evidence do I have that I've not played 40k since November 2012? Should I take a photo of the light layer of dust on my Russes? Or one of the empty shelf that used to hold a pile of unbuilt 3rd edition Tactical Marines?

Put your stuff on ebay. That'd be pretty good evidence.

haha thats pretty funny.

But we shouldnt be encouraging people to quit. I think every one at least should wait to see whats actually in it and so on before they do anything.

 Hawky wrote:
So much rage everywhere. People quitting the game because GW made something unsuitable to them. How childish.
I find this behavior as main ruining force of 40k.

Othervise, I don't find leaked stuff trustworthy. In the book after release, it might be different.

I get what you're saying, to an extent.

There's always been a strand of opinion on these boards that moans that Codex X is too powerful, but then they moan when the new Codex Y is not powerful enough! Sort of, as long as my army is the best, I don't care!

In saying that, most people here just want a fun game, and that they recognise it's just bits of plastic being shuffled around a table, at the end of the day.

I can also sympathise with people over price, game balance, and a muddle of expansions that has left some people scratching their heads. But as I always say, you don't like it, don't buy it! Plenty of other companies out there doing good stuff for cheaper.

So far I very disappointed in this new release. I had hoped for another competitive or at least fun codex to possibly challenge the Tau or Eldar. Instead we get 25% point increases on our current transports, unit removals, increased weapon prices,and one new unit that poorly replaces the missing unit. Where are the new units? New regiments? New rules? Nothing. The IG have lost both flavor and competitiveness. Overall this release seems to place the IG firmly into the mid-tier, perhaps even lower.

The only people that seem to be of good cheer with this release are those that say the IG was undercosted anyway.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
There's always been a strand of opinion on these boards that moans that Codex X is too powerful, but then they moan when the new Codex Y is not powerful enough! Sort of, as long as my army is the best, I don't care!

This isn't it at all. There are two main complaints right now, and neither of them are about "make my army more powerful":

1) The removal of characters and units for no good reason. Once again GW's idiotic "if we don't have a model kit with X on the box then we won't publish rules for X" paranoia is damaging the game. They're so terrified of someone else making some money off their IP that they'd rather lose money by getting rid of that part of the IP entirely. And we, the customers, just have to deal with having our beloved armies turned into shelf decorations.

2) The nerfing of things which didn't need to be nerfed. Only an absolute ing idiot would think that power fists on IG sergeants needed to be more expensive. Unfortunately, GW's rule authors (I refuse to call such hopeless incompetents game designers) are just that kind of idiot. These changes might not have much of an effect on the power of the army since so few people used the options anyway, but they're more proof that GW has no clue how the game works and doesn't give a if they publish garbage as long as someone still buys it.

You'll notice that the very justified nerf to the Vendetta hasn't drawn much criticism, outside of the mismatch between the model and the rules for its transport capacity. Everyone knew it was too powerful, and even IG players are fine with having it nerfed a bit.

Well...I think they wanted to make the cost of power weapons consistent between codices.

Still a pretty idiotic idea though. An S3 model pays as much as an S4 model to have his strength doubled. Genius.

I apologize, I was not meaning to insult anyone. I was attempting to highlight how prone the people on the internet are to hyperbole.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Hawky wrote:
So much rage everywhere. People quitting the game because GW made something unsuitable to them. How childish.
I find this behavior as main ruining force of 40k.

Yeah, how dare people quit when the game is no longer fun. They should just keep giving GW money because GW's needs are more important.

Peregrine there is a middle ground between rage quitting and being a brainless white knight for GW. My point is that even if GW devs don't have the slightest knowledge how the game is really played outside their precious ivory tower we can fix many of their stupid mistakes with a simple mail to a friend saying "what about 1500pts next week using Siege of Vraks rules" or a "fancy going back to 5th ed for a change?"

M.

 Hawky wrote:
So much rage everywhere. People quitting the game because GW made something unsuitable to them. How childish.
I find this behavior as main ruining force of 40k.

Othervise, I don't find leaked stuff trustworthy. In the book after release, it might be different.

Well of the armies I collect, I have both IG and 'nids. GW already took an unbalanced 'nid codex and made it worse, now they're taking IG and removing options I liked and not really adding anything interesting.

I'm not quitting (yet), but yeah, I'm disappointed thus far. Maybe the actual book will be a shining beacon of hope, somehow I doubt that. GW game developers have proven they don't know understand their own game system or at the very least don't give a damn.

I find this behavior as main ruining force of 40k.

The question is, does 40k attract people with crappy attitudes or does GW turn perfectly normal people in to people with crappy attitudes?

 Miguelsan wrote:
My point is that even if GW devs don't have the slightest knowledge how the game is really played outside their precious ivory tower we can fix many of their stupid mistakes with a simple mail to a friend saying "what about 1500pts next week using Siege of Vraks rules" or a "fancy going back to 5th ed for a change?"

That's assuming anyone wants to go back and play with old rules. Maybe if you have friends who play and a history together you can do it, but for random pickup games that's pretty much wishful thinking.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
There's always been a strand of opinion on these boards that moans that Codex X is too powerful, but then they moan when the new Codex Y is not powerful enough! Sort of, as long as my army is the best, I don't care!

Really... that's what you get from people complaining about varying power levels, that everyone wants their own army to be the best? Bit of a shallow view you have right there. The far more logical thing conclusion from people complaining about some codices being too powerful and others being not powerful enough is that people want some semblance of BALANCE in the rules.

Also, at this point, I'm not complaining about the power level of the new Codex. We have no idea what random monobuilds IG will have that are competitive. What I am complaining about (or more, expressing disappointed over) is removal of options we used to have, lack of anything interesting for the new release and the nerfing of things that shouldn't have been nerfed (I mean really, who ever though IG power weapons/fists were so powerful as to require a points rise? Or that a Chimera was really too much for the points you paid? The only one that really makes sense is the Vendetta).

Apparently even GW admits that they "made a mistake" with certain super OP Tau and Eldar units and combintations but it seems they can't be bothered to fix their mistakes anymore - hence no more FAQs etc.

The recent Codexes have been either copy paste or minimal effort, although at least the Knights one did have some decent fluff and artwork.

Everyone who was in favour of game blance knew the Vendetta had to be changed (same as we know this with the Riptide and Wave Serpent) but GW keep making bizare changes - like the power fist one.

I doubt they will bother updating any of the other codexes with Chimera in so they will be different in diffierent books....

Perhaps they will have the Regimental Tactics but I doubt it - it gives people more chance of playing non Cadian (ie non GW) models and so is heresy.......sad really

@mr morden to intentionally misqoute "GW are fiddling whilst Lenton Burns"

Tad dramatic.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:
My point is that even if GW devs don't have the slightest knowledge how the game is really played outside their precious ivory tower we can fix many of their stupid mistakes with a simple mail to a friend saying "what about 1500pts next week using Siege of Vraks rules" or a "fancy going back to 5th ed for a change?"

That's assuming anyone wants to go back and play with old rules. Maybe if you have friends who play and a history together you can do it, but for random pickup games that's pretty much wishful thinking.

Those were just examples. I was suggesting that with the amount of GW and FW already published people can arrange the game to suit them and ignore GW with some forethought.
Also I would suggest for you to start cultivating the player group you want to play (one of the few interesting things Jervis has managed to write recently). If Timmy is TFG that makes your enjoyment of the game go down the drain is it that difficult for you to arrange games with other players more suitable to your play style instead of pickup games and send Timmy to GWHQ for good?

M.

 Swastakowey wrote:
This isnt a hate message or anything but if you dont play 40k why do do you post and talk about 40k rules etc? It just seems kind of pointless.

I'm a collector and modeler. I have, of old, a sizeable number of GW models. Beyond that, my motivations are my own.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
There's always been a strand of opinion on these boards that moans that Codex X is too powerful, but then they moan when the new Codex Y is not powerful enough! Sort of, as long as my army is the best, I don't care!

Really... that's what you get from people complaining about varying power levels, that everyone wants their own army to be the best? Bit of a shallow view you have right there. The far more logical thing conclusion from people complaining about some codices being too powerful and others being not powerful enough is that people want some semblance of BALANCE in the rules.

Also, at this point, I'm not complaining about the power level of the new Codex. We have no idea what random monobuilds IG will have that are competitive. What I am complaining about (or more, expressing disappointed over) is removal of options we used to have, lack of anything interesting for the new release and the nerfing of things that shouldn't have been nerfed (I mean really, who ever though IG power weapons/fists were so powerful as to require a points rise? Or that a Chimera was really too much for the points you paid? The only one that really makes sense is the Vendetta).

Fair points, especially the one about power fists being more expensive. . I should have made it clearer in my earlier post that the strand was a minority, and not a majority.

Going slightly OT here, but what is balance? I remember when the Daemons got their army book for fantasy a couple of years ago, people complained that it was too powerful. My reaction was get some daemons, I might win some games. So there I was at a local tournament with my Daemon army. Result? Five games played, five crushing defeats inflicted upon my poor daemons.

Some players. i.e me, are so bad, that even powerful armies are not enough for victory!

Back OT I like the look of the stormtrooper berets. real men wear berets!


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 Peregrine wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
There's always been a strand of opinion on these boards that moans that Codex X is too powerful, but then they moan when the new Codex Y is not powerful enough! Sort of, as long as my army is the best, I don't care!

This isn't it at all. There are two main complaints right now, and neither of them are about "make my army more powerful":

1) The removal of characters and units for no good reason. Once again GW's idiotic "if we don't have a model kit with X on the box then we won't publish rules for X" paranoia is damaging the game. They're so terrified of someone else making some money off their IP that they'd rather lose money by getting rid of that part of the IP entirely. And we, the customers, just have to deal with having our beloved armies turned into shelf decorations.

2) The nerfing of things which didn't need to be nerfed. Only an absolute ing idiot would think that power fists on IG sergeants needed to be more expensive. Unfortunately, GW's rule authors (I refuse to call such hopeless incompetents game designers) are just that kind of idiot. These changes might not have much of an effect on the power of the army since so few people used the options anyway, but they're more proof that GW has no clue how the game works and doesn't give a if they publish garbage as long as someone still buys it.

You'll notice that the very justified nerf to the Vendetta hasn't drawn much criticism, outside of the mismatch between the model and the rules for its transport capacity. Everyone knew it was too powerful, and even IG players are fine with having it nerfed a bit.

I agree with most of what you say, but maybe the powerfist increase is no more than a simple printing error?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
What I am complaining about (or more, expressing disappointed over) is removal of options we used to have.

This is pretty much where I stand on this release. I didn't want or expect IG to suddenty become a better army, the 5th Ed book was fine game-wise, plenty versatile and balanced against almost everything but Tau/Eldar cheese lists. What gets me is the removal of options that, in many ways, invalidate some key IG playstyles.

Chenkov going brings an end to the 'endless horde' conscript army, unless SITNW becomes a base option for Conscripts. Al'Rahem means mass-outflanking is far harder to do effectively, as there's no way to outflank a whole platoon as separate units. Artillery Gunlines are now far more diffucult to pull off, with the loss of 3/4 of our Ordnance Battery options.

You see this a lot - where people complain about X or Y balance change based on their experience with the game, without appreciating that their experience is by definition limited to their local meta.

Perhaps IG power fists saw more action in the studio.


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 Paradigm wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
What I am complaining about (or more, expressing disappointed over) is removal of options we used to have.

This is pretty much where I stand on this release. I didn't want or expect IG to suddenty become a better army, the 5th Ed book was fine game-wise, plenty versatile and balanced against almost everything but Tau/Eldar cheese lists. What gets me is the removal of options that, in many ways, invalidate some key IG playstyles.

Agreed.