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 tjnorwoo wrote:
Anyone know of good substitutes for rough riders?

Bretonian Empire or the Empire of Man or whatever their called now. Buy their box, jam Guardsmen torsos on there and let them ride.

Emperor save this person's poor soul should he be fibbin' us

Thanks for the data dump. Is there anything that you can see as standout overall? I feel like this is the Nids release Part 2. The new stuff isn't new enough, the deleted things that gave us flavor, fiddled with some stuff to make us change lists and called it a day.

I'm glad the Chimera isn't complete trash, but the new changes are tepid. Guass Flayer Arrays? Awesome! Chimera lasgun arrays? Meh? Just something else you'll probably forget to shoot.

I think this might be the book of Russ with some psykers buffing them. I know I'd probably run two Tank Commanders, two-three PBS, Vets in Chimera, Vendetta or Two (maybe stormtroopers in 'em), then Manticores. Just mech it up big time.

I want to see if something can come of hte new heavy ogryn, though. I dig the model a lot. I see making some great Fallout style conversions from them.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Jex, I may have missed it, but was there any change to the pricing of Camo Netting, and does it still only apply if the vehicle is stationary?

-thanks!

15 pts for every vehicle (so stable, or lower depending on which vehicle you put it on)

As for waht it does, it only states that it adds +1 to cover saves, and gives a +6 cover when it in the open; so move or not, you got that save.

As for what stands out..well there's a few new thigns here and there, but nothing major really; orders are the biggest thing with the Warlord traits I'd say.

Ogryns/bullgryns seems to pricey for assault units; you get a bunch of bullgryns with 12 inch grenade launchers and +1 armour save and giving a +1 cover save to wahteveR's behind them, or they get 5++ power mauls and re-roll HoW for a damn big price tag if you ask me.
Ogryns got price stabled at 40 each, bullgryn's 45 each, +15 for the bullshield and power maul.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Jex, I may have missed it, but was there any change to the pricing of Camo Netting, and does it still only apply if the vehicle is stationary?

-thanks!

15 pts for every vehicle (so stable, or lower depending on which vehicle you put it on)

As for waht it does, it only states that it adds +1 to cover saves, and gives a +6 cover when it in the open; so move or not, you got that save.

Ok cool, so it's pretty much identical now to Holofields and the like in terms of price and functionality. That's nice at least. Though the units I'd have wanted it most for aren't in the book anymore

Thx for the responses,

1set of orders per unit I'm assuming
Can you issue orders into a vehicle
The priest doesn't have access to any cc weapons
Are or primaris psykers ICs

 RegulusBlack wrote:
Thx for the responses,

1set of orders per unit I'm assuming
Can you issue orders into a vehicle
The priest doesn't have access to any cc weapons
Are or primaris psykers ICs

Yes one order per unit, but again, that doesn't stop the unit giving the order to run, shoot or fire
Only the chimera got the mobile command vehicle, the taurox does not.
The Priest only got a basic CCW weapon and can only pick between a plasma gun for 15 or an autogun for free. at elast he's got frags.
Primaris are IC, so are commissar Lords, Priests and Yarrick and Tech-Priests.

 tjnorwoo wrote:
Anyone know of good substitutes for rough riders?

Victoria Lamb and some horses.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Jex, I may have missed it, but was there any change to the pricing of Camo Netting, and does it still only apply if the vehicle is stationary?

-thanks!

15 pts for every vehicle (so stable, or lower depending on which vehicle you put it on)

As for waht it does, it only states that it adds +1 to cover saves, and gives a +6 cover when it in the open; so move or not, you got that save.

Ok cool, so it's pretty much identical now to Holofields and the like in terms of price and functionality. That's nice at least. Though the units I'd have wanted it most for aren't in the book anymore

Poor, poor Medusa. Sad times.

Was I on target ?

Thanks again jex

I should clarify are there restrictions when issuing orders to only dismounted troops (I.e. can I issue bring it down to my vets inside a chimera)

so they nerfed the crap out of creed....
lost an order
lost 12" to his orders
WHY!

 Sparkadia wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Jex, I may have missed it, but was there any change to the pricing of Camo Netting, and does it still only apply if the vehicle is stationary?

-thanks!

15 pts for every vehicle (so stable, or lower depending on which vehicle you put it on)

As for waht it does, it only states that it adds +1 to cover saves, and gives a +6 cover when it in the open; so move or not, you got that save.

Ok cool, so it's pretty much identical now to Holofields and the like in terms of price and functionality. That's nice at least. Though the units I'd have wanted it most for aren't in the book anymore

Poor, poor Medusa. Sad times.

Was I on target ?

Yup

I think they kinda had to nerf him. The orders and tanks are the saving grace to the book from what I can tell. Imagine creed telling 4 vet las cannon teams to ignore cover and outflanking your LRBT punisher squad with pask at the helm.... busted

 RegulusBlack wrote:
Thanks again jex

I should clarify are there restrictions when issuing orders to only dismounted troops (I.e. can I issue bring it down to my vets inside a chimera)

nope, just like last codex; cannot issue an order to a unit in a vehicle, locked in combat, gone to ground or running away (barring exceptions, i.e get back in the fight)

and really, with the warlord trait, you might just be able to outflank D3 unit with ANY commander..granted you got to roll a 1, but you got a 1/6 chance to pull a CREEEEEDDDD every game, maybe even 2 or 3!

 RegulusBlack wrote:
I think they kinda had to nerf him. The orders and tanks are the saving grace to the book from what I can tell. Imagine creed telling 4 vet las cannon teams to ignore cover and outflanking your LRBT punisher squad with pask at the helm.... busted

Lascannon is heavy 1, so that is 4 snap shots.

how many orders can pask issue
how many orders can a regular tank hq order

Do company command squads still have camo cloak and/or carapace armor options?
Who can get a medic and how much?
Are the Straken/Creed costs on top of the CCS squad or instead of?
Does anybody have access to combi-weapons?
Do Ogryn still have Furious Charge?
Do Heavy Weapon Squads pay the same price for their guns as Infantry Squads?
Are Special Weapon Squads still 6 men/3 special weapons?

Thanks.

So not enough done to Ogryns to really make them more than something to look at?

That's... sad.

This book seems drab. Not like olive drab, but just... drab drab. It's not like the old days of "OMG, did you hear... the Wolves are getting friggen' dudes that RIDE WOLVES?!" Like silly grimdark gone too far.

This is just... boring? A Tank Army is pretty awesome, not going to lie. Just feels like it's missing some flavor. It's like salt and pepper. Yes, they can make any meal better, but sometimes you really want smoked sea salt and cracked white pepper.

 TheKbob wrote:
So not enough done to Ogryns to really make them more than something to look at?

That's... sad.

This book seems drab. Not like olive drab, but just... drab drab. It's not like the old days of "OMG, did you hear... the Wolves are getting friggen' dudes that RIDE WOLVES?!" Like silly grimdark gone too far.

This is just... boring? A Tank Army is pretty awesome, not going to lie. Just feels like it's missing some flavor. It's like salt and pepper. Yes, they can make any meal better, but sometimes you really want smoked sea salt and cracked white pepper.

This is what happens when GW reacts the complete wrong way to the Chapterhouse ruling.. Instead of going "who cares, if we dont act like dicks none of this MATTERS" they instead said "NO MORE FUN MODELS OR UNITS, No other company can make a single cent off our game". When in reality plenty of companies make secondary models for existing units with models anyway! To punish? Chapterhouse they destroyed all creativity in their own IP and made the players suffer.

Quote:
The Emperor's Benediction S5AP4 bolt pistol (pistol, precision shot, master crafted) only 5 pts, but Lord Commissar only. (since ithe weapon got Precisioon shot, I suppose that means every shot got that rule, so no need to roll a 6)

Wasn't there a debate like 15 pages ago about the "Take Aim!" order giving Precision shot? Seems like we have that settled now. Blob of 50 dudes with whatever else you want sniping everything out of an enemy unit.

Oh also for the PBS if I remember right you can only use witchfire powers from inside a chimera so if you're going to prescience your tanks you'll be on foot.

Portugus, I'm thinking you're right about the precision shot rule. That makes that order amazing, though I can imagine feeling pretty sullen if I was being shot at by suddenly crack conscripts that shoot better than my sniper squads.

Not all creativity. Tau got the Riptide. Love or Hate 'Em (I hate 'em), Chaos got Dinobots. Marines even got a new tank pattern and some PA dudes in PA. Eldar got Wraithknights and a hella cool jet.

Nids get a flying bug with a stick up it's butt. I guess they forgot those things can walk in the rules (or do they roll places? That's a hilarious thought). And they got more phallic bugs with big guns.

Guard gets Ogryns with more armor. Not a big stretch. And they drop several artillery tanks with already cool models from GW to make a boring looking double kit. Stormtroopers got a refresh and we got the "taurox". The latter being one of the derpiest and scathed updates I've seen from GW for awhile. Even the ork guys go "meh". And that's sad!

That said, I'll wait for confirmation before I go on ebay and buy up a ton of russes. 15 to be exact.

The chimera being able to fire at multiple targets will at least be good for forcing grounding checks... Its something lol.

 jae4x4 wrote:
how many orders can pask issue
how many orders can a regular tank hq order

One per turn, and only to his Unit.
roll 2d6, if 9 or less, choose one of the following that takes effect immediately
move D6+6
split fire lookalike
fire and pop smoke.

A tank commander can only roll 1d3 when choosing Warlord Trait.

Pask beings with old grudge warlord trait (pick a codex gains preferred enemy against it) re-roll penetrating hit and some special rules, depending on what tank you got (battle tank, vanquisher, demolisher, eradicator re-roll to hit; Exterminator or punisher, gain rending; plasma canon can fire a large blast heavy 1 gets hot, blind blast.

Biophysical wrote:
Do company command squads still have camo cloak and/or carapace armor options?
Who can get a medic and how much?
Are the Straken/Creed costs on top of the CCS squad or instead of?
Does anybody have access to combi-weapons?
Do Ogryn still have Furious Charge?
Do Heavy Weapon Squads pay the same price for their guns as Infantry Squads?
Are Special Weapon Squads still 6 men/3 special weapons?

Thanks.

1-Yes, both are 2 pts /model
2-15 pts, CCS, PCs and Scion command squad
3-instead; they replace the Company commander
4-Nope
5-Nope, they got Hammer of Wrath instead
6-Yup, same price for everyone when it comes to heavy weapons.
7-Yes, 3 MUST replace their lasguns with a special weapon

speaking of, someone asked way back about the price of a demo charge? it is now 20 pts.

How is everybody going to do infantry now with all these changes? Is there really benefit to platoons? Or is everybody going to be doing three weapon vet squads in tauroxes? Are those open topped? How many specials can you fire out of them? Honestly I can see me giving all my vets carapace and three weapons in tauroxes, with the CCS in the chimera ordering about my three strong tank squads, with vendettas dropping in with all the reserve buffs (tempestus with melta in the vendettas) how mechanized guard should really be done, a hard hitting force, where not only would the opponent have to deal with an incredibly destructive leman russ contingent, but they gotta worry about cheap, armoured vets prancing around too.

Oh also for the PBS if I remember right you can only use witchfire powers from inside a chimera so if you're going to prescience your tanks you'll be on foot.

No need to worry about that since the unit is pretty bad at 60 pts for LD8 psyker.

Hey Jex,

As you have the rulebook, is there any clarity on the contentious precision shot order and whether they have it only on 6s? Thanks for your time by the way

AkhilleusK42 wrote:
Hey Jex,

As you have the rulebook, is there any clarity on the contentious precision shot order and whether they have it only on 6s? Thanks for your time by the way

No problem.

And no, it does not clarify it; the unit gains the precision shot special rule, so for me that means 6s are precision shot just like the character rule states.

ALSO...the Emperor's Benediction, a Lord Commissar-only Relic (called heirloom of conquest) is a pistol that have the precision shot rule by itself. since the Commie Lord is a char and already got the rule for him, I believe that taking that item actually grants every shot as if you've rolled a 6.

but order wise: you still need to roll a 6 to get it.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

AkhilleusK42 wrote:
Hey Jex,

As you have the rulebook, is there any clarity on the contentious precision shot order and whether they have it only on 6s? Thanks for your time by the way

No problem.

And no, it does not clarify it; the unit gains the precision shot special rule, so for me that means 6s are precision shot just like the character rule states.

ALSO...the Emperor's Benediction, a Lord Commissar-only Relic (called heirloom of conquest) is a pistol that have the precision shot rule by itself. since the Commie Lord is a char and already got the rule for him, I believe that taking that item actually grants every shot as if you've rolled a 6.

but order wise: you still need to roll a 6 to get it.

Sounds like a case of not proofread if we're catching that just by skimming it. Intent seems always placed, but it sounds like RAW isn't that?

Incorrect assumption on how the precision shot rule works tho, characters GAIN precision shot on a roll of a 6 to hit.

Character Unit type + 6 to hit = Gain Precision Shot rule

That is different from the RULE precision shot saying "A to-hit roll of 6 allows you to allocate the wound to a model of your choice". In reality, the precision shot rule simply allows you to allocate ANY wound using this rule to a model of your choice.

This is no different than the vindicare assassin or pathfinders. The only reason imo people are resisting this idea is because it's COMPLETELY ABSURD to have 50 guardsmen gaining precision shot on ALL hit rolls (but wouldn't surprise me with GW's lack of due diligence).

To all the haters, boo friggin' boo hoo.

We lost three artillery tanks and gained one. They all did the same thing any way, and we still have SEVEN leman russ variants. Master of ordnance is now cheaper. If you're really sad about the medusa/colossus get two CCS with two masters of ordnance and call fire on my target all day long. The arty tanks were mostly cheaper/flimsier ways of doing what the leman russ variants can do anyway.

ZOMG chimera is 10 points more. Yes, that's to counter your awesome vet units that are now 10 points cheaper. Cheaper doctrines, more orders, your infantry is now much more effective. PCS with 12" command range and 6 available orders. This change was to incentivize infantry with well thought out deployment and command structures, and to slightly disincentivize plasma buses. Which do you think more closely reflects the IG fluff? I agree the chimera rules are clunky, but the splitfire option could be very useful.

The cheaper veteran doctrines are positively game changing. I plan to spam camo-vets, Tanith style, good luck trying to shoot out my vets with the 3+ cover save in those ruins, and their snare mines will negate any charge bonus. Cheap carapace vets puts a whole new flavor on objective-seizing.

Cheaper armored sentinels could be big. They could be great tank hunters.

Everyone wants their army to be the next big thing, but I really like the sound of these changes and they seem like good balance decisions rather than flavor of the month OP buffs.