Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So, if the Fleet Advisor now does what he did before and what the Astropath did before, what's the point of the Astropath again?

Cheap Psyker.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Smitty wrote:
It appears I was mistaken. The BRB says you can hold up to half of your forces in reserve. I haven't looked at that rule in a long time, and my mind mixed a few words up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My apologies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, to everyone arguing about precision shots, I found something in the digital glossary.

Spoiler:

Bwuahaha, well, all other armies, kiss your special weapons and squad leaders goodbye. You average every day conscript suddenly became the universe's best snipers

Though the best thing will be ordering a heavy weapons team or Vet squad with 3 plasmas to "take aim" and watching the enemy units lose their teeth.

That's what I was thinking.

 Trickstick wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
So, the 'open topped' build for the Taurox isn't actually in the rules at all?

That wasn't really a build, it was just showing the interior.

Therefore 'Interior' is not included in the boxset. right?

 Peregrine wrote:
But seriously, in GW's delusional fantasy world nobody ever takes units because they're effective, they always do it because it fits their fluff or because they want to collect the models. So it's simple: if you want an advisor to attach to your command squad and provide psychic support you take the HQ psyker, if you want a whole squad of psykers running around the battlefield you take the psyker unit. The rules just let you use the models you've already chosen, you shouldn't even read them before making your choice. And if you start doing things like analyzing which is more point-efficient at giving you divination powers then you're obviously TFG and don't understand the One™ True™ Hobby™.

Take out the sarcasm and bitterness and that's pretty much my approach to the hobby.

So, good codex yes?

 Smitty wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Smitty wrote:
It appears I was mistaken. The BRB says you can hold up to half of your forces in reserve. I haven't looked at that rule in a long time, and my mind mixed a few words up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My apologies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, to everyone arguing about precision shots, I found something in the digital glossary.

Spoiler:

Bwuahaha, well, all other armies, kiss your special weapons and squad leaders goodbye. You average every day conscript suddenly became the universe's best snipers

Though the best thing will be ordering a heavy weapons team or Vet squad with 3 plasmas to "take aim" and watching the enemy units lose their teeth.

That's what I was thinking.

Just imagine one IG army fighting another IG army... after a couple of turns all special weapons and sargeants on both sides will be gone

Guard vs. Guard is the best fight, and precision shots everywhere makes them even better.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So, if the Fleet Advisor now does what he did before and what the Astropath did before, what's the point of the Astropath again?

Ball™ Washer™

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
But seriously, in GW's delusional fantasy world nobody ever takes units because they're effective, they always do it because it fits their fluff or because they want to collect the models. So it's simple: if you want an advisor to attach to your command squad and provide psychic support you take the HQ psyker, if you want a whole squad of psykers running around the battlefield you take the psyker unit. The rules just let you use the models you've already chosen, you shouldn't even read them before making your choice. And if you start doing things like analyzing which is more point-efficient at giving you divination powers then you're obviously TFG and don't understand the One™ True™ Hobby™.

Take out the sarcasm and bitterness and that's pretty much my approach to the hobby.

So, good codex yes?

Apparently not.

GWs game designers need to stop being incompetent morons and push out Codex:Imperial Guard Chimera Plasma Vet and Vendetta Spam.

The book will consist of one entry: A Compulsory Army List of Ultimate Win.

Instead they're a bunch of delusional fantasists who give gamers a Codex that allows you to go for an all powerful winning list OR a range of choices to play around and have fun with.

Right, time to go and get some Bullgryns to rank alongside my Rough Riders.

Looking at the various bundles, the Defence Force and 2 Armoured Fists actually gives you a solid start to a mech army.

Use the three Chimeras for 2 Vet squads and a CCS (get melta/plasma from somewhere), and then mix in the HWTs into the remaining Infantry squads, giving you 5 leftover bodies to kitbash with the rest of the CCS box for a PCS.

In other words, you get 2 mech vet squads, a CCS, a basic platoon with Heavy Weapons and a Russ, and a good saving on top of that. If I had the cash and didn't hate Cadians, I would be very tempted by that. You'd just need to add in a Vendetta and a couple more Russes to have a very solid starting army.

 Paradigm wrote:
Looking at the various bundles, the Defence Force and 2 Armoured Fists actually gives you a solid start to a mech army.

Use the three Chimeras for 2 Vet squads and a CCS (get melta/plasma from somewhere), and then mix in the HWTs into the remaining Infantry squads, giving you 5 leftover bodies to kitbash with the rest of the CCS box for a PCS.

In other words, you get 2 mech vet squads, a CCS, a basic platoon with Heavy Weapons and a Russ, and a good saving on top of that. If I had the cash and didn't hate Cadians, I would be very tempted by that. You'd just need to add in a Vendetta and a couple more Russes to have a very solid starting army.

Imagine the cash they'd be pulling in if they had invested in something like a plastic Steel Legion Defence Force, especially with the Hammer of Cadia bundle.

alphaecho wrote:
GWs game designers need to stop being incompetent morons and push out Codex:Imperial Guard Chimera Plasma Vet and Vendetta Spam.

The book will consist of one entry: A Compulsory Army List of Ultimate Win.

Sigh. Nice straw man, but nobody here is asking for that. I want to see balanced choices, not blatantly overpowered ones like 130 point Vendettas, or redundant ones like psyker squads in a codex with far better HQ psykers.

Instead they're a bunch of delusional fantasists who give gamers a Codex that allows you to go for an all powerful winning list OR a range of choices to play around and have fun with.

Except you don't actually have choices, because the units are the same. You have unit X, a powerful psyker, with Y powers. And then you also have unit A, which has the exact same powers as unit X and fills the exact same role, but has weaker stats. There is no reason to ever take the psyker squad unless you're stubbornly determined to take a weaker list, or you're the kind of obsessive collector that has to buy the psyker squad because you buy one of everything in the codex no matter how pointless it is. This seems like about as much fun as spending $50 on a unit that is exactly the same as an infantry squad, except the lasguns are STR 2 AP - and it automatically fails all leadership tests.

The unfortunate fact here is that you've bought every bit of GW's "forge the narrative" nonsense, and you think that they're actually providing you with a good casual game. But they really aren't, they're providing you with garbage and you proudly praise them for it.

Right, time to go and get some Bullgryns to rank alongside my Rough Riders.

Except that's not a fair comparison. Rough riders are not a very competitive unit, but at least they're different. They do something no other unit in the codex can do, and you can legitimately enjoy using them even if they're not the best choice for winning games. Psyker squads, on the other hand, are just HQ psykers with weaker stats. It's a completely redundant unit that has no reason to exist anymore.

And of course if GW had competent game designers we wouldn't even be having this conversation because there wouldn't be any weak units in the codex at all. Rough riders would be a viable competitive choice instead of having terrible rules, and there would be no need to take your bizarre moral high ground and congratulate yourself for using weak units.

 Peregrine wrote:


The unfortunate fact here is that you've bought every bit of GW's "forge the narrative" nonsense, and you think that they're actually providing you with a good casual game. But they really aren't, they're providing you with garbage and you proudly praise them for it.

Right, time to go and get some Bullgryns to rank alongside my Rough Riders.

Except that's not a fair comparison. Rough riders are not a very competitive unit, but at least they're different. They do something no other unit in the codex can do, and you can legitimately enjoy using them even if they're not the best choice for winning games. Psyker squads, on the other hand, are just HQ psykers with weaker stats. It's a completely redundant unit that has no reason to exist anymore.

And yet, I still enjoy the extremely small slice of my life that is 40K. Everything from collecting, building, painting and, every now and again, playing.

You, on the other hand appear to be investing large amounts of time and money into something 'garbage' that seems to irritate and rankle you.

And who was comparing Bullgryns to Rough Riders? I'm just going to buy some because they look like they could be a fun way to pass some time.

And, once again, thank you for letting me know that I can legitimately enjoy using Rough Riders. Such affirmation is good and I now know I haven't wasted the time I've been using them (since RT days actually).

I've never invested in a psyker squad though. Can I enjoy them?

alphaecho wrote:
You, on the other hand appear to be investing large amounts of time and money into something 'garbage' that seems to irritate and rankle you.

I still like the models, and occasionally have a fun game despite the rules doing absolutely nothing to support that fun. And I really enjoy laughing at people who think that 40k is a great casual/narrative/whatever game, and don't understand that the things that competitive players complain about also make it a bad game for everyone else.

And who was comparing Bullgryns to Rough Riders?

No, you missed the point there.

Rough riders and bullgryns are (probably) weak units in a competitive game, but at least they have their own unique abilities. If you don't care too much about winning they do genuinely different things that no other unit in the codex does. You can enjoy the giant wall of meatshields, or the absurdity of a cavalry charge in a scifi game. This makes them an example of GW's incompetent game design, since anyone who isn't a complete moron would have made their rules balanced instead of hopelessly weak, but at least it's better than the psykers.

Psyker squads aren't just weak, they're redundant. The HQ psyker does everything the psyker squad does, and does it better. There's nothing unique or fun about a psyker squad that you can't get out of a HQ psyker, the only reason to use the squad is if you stubbornly refuse to be like everyone else and take the clearly superior alternative. Even if you're a "casual" player the unit might as well not exist at all.

I've never invested in a psyker squad though. Can I enjoy them?

Only if you enjoy losing. There's no reason to even consider putting one on the table when the primaris psyker and divination inquisitor exist.

 Paradigm wrote:
Looking at the various bundles, the Defence Force and 2 Armoured Fists actually gives you a solid start to a mech army.

Use the three Chimeras for 2 Vet squads and a CCS (get melta/plasma from somewhere), and then mix in the HWTs into the remaining Infantry squads, giving you 5 leftover bodies to kitbash with the rest of the CCS box for a PCS.

In other words, you get 2 mech vet squads, a CCS, a basic platoon with Heavy Weapons and a Russ, and a good saving on top of that. If I had the cash and didn't hate Cadians, I would be very tempted by that. You'd just need to add in a Vendetta and a couple more Russes to have a very solid starting army.

You're still thinking in 5th edition guard mode. Those chimeras are useless now, especially for veteran squads, what with the loss of fire points

 Peregrine wrote:
[I still like the models, and occasionally have a fun game despite the rules doing absolutely nothing to support that fun. And I really enjoy laughing at people who think that 40k is a great casual/narrative/whatever game, and don't understand that the things that competitive players complain about also make it a bad game for everyone else.

I laugh at those who insist on telling others what they should or should not be enjoying and the reasons as to why they should or shouldn't be enjoying it.

 Peregrine wrote:

Psyker squads aren't just weak, they're redundant.

Not entirely. The HQ can be sniped out of a squad. The battle psyker squad can play peekaboo around a piece of terrain where only one is visible to buff. That one get's killed, but shouldnt be 1/4th a unit so no leadership roll. Following turn the next "volunteer" shows his head to do the same. I agree it's a flimsy setup and I would generally always take the HQ instead, but it's not completely redundant.

KommissarKarl wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Looking at the various bundles, the Defence Force and 2 Armoured Fists actually gives you a solid start to a mech army.

Use the three Chimeras for 2 Vet squads and a CCS (get melta/plasma from somewhere), and then mix in the HWTs into the remaining Infantry squads, giving you 5 leftover bodies to kitbash with the rest of the CCS box for a PCS.

In other words, you get 2 mech vet squads, a CCS, a basic platoon with Heavy Weapons and a Russ, and a good saving on top of that. If I had the cash and didn't hate Cadians, I would be very tempted by that. You'd just need to add in a Vendetta and a couple more Russes to have a very solid starting army.

You're still thinking in 5th edition guard mode. Those chimeras are useless now, especially for veteran squads, what with the loss of fire points

Hardly useless. They are still relatively well armed compared to most other transports for the price.

Now, if you said "not as good as before", then you'd have a point. It was a bit silly though how those lasguns on the side could suddenly shoot plasma.
What's interesting is that a HWT still counts as 1 model in the Chimera, so you can drive around shooting a lascannon and a plasma gun.

KommissarKarl wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Looking at the various bundles, the Defence Force and 2 Armoured Fists actually gives you a solid start to a mech army.

Use the three Chimeras for 2 Vet squads and a CCS (get melta/plasma from somewhere), and then mix in the HWTs into the remaining Infantry squads, giving you 5 leftover bodies to kitbash with the rest of the CCS box for a PCS.

In other words, you get 2 mech vet squads, a CCS, a basic platoon with Heavy Weapons and a Russ, and a good saving on top of that. If I had the cash and didn't hate Cadians, I would be very tempted by that. You'd just need to add in a Vendetta and a couple more Russes to have a very solid starting army.

You're still thinking in 5th edition guard mode. Those chimeras are useless now, especially for veteran squads, what with the loss of fire points

Far from useless. I think there's still a place for them in a purely transport role, use them to drive up, hop out and blast 3 special weapons at point-blank range. Then flat-out the Chimera to block LOS. They're not gunboats anymore, but they're far from useless.

 Paradigm wrote:

KommissarKarl wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Looking at the various bundles, the Defence Force and 2 Armoured Fists actually gives you a solid start to a mech army.

Use the three Chimeras for 2 Vet squads and a CCS (get melta/plasma from somewhere), and then mix in the HWTs into the remaining Infantry squads, giving you 5 leftover bodies to kitbash with the rest of the CCS box for a PCS.

In other words, you get 2 mech vet squads, a CCS, a basic platoon with Heavy Weapons and a Russ, and a good saving on top of that. If I had the cash and didn't hate Cadians, I would be very tempted by that. You'd just need to add in a Vendetta and a couple more Russes to have a very solid starting army.

You're still thinking in 5th edition guard mode. Those chimeras are useless now, especially for veteran squads, what with the loss of fire points

Far from useless. I think there's still a place for them in a purely transport role, use them to drive up, hop out and blast 3 special weapons at point-blank range. Then flat-out the Chimera to block LOS. They're not gunboats anymore, but they're far from useless.

Yep, the role for the chimera has shifted from "mobile fire base" to "IFV," which is what the Chimera is meant to be, iirc.

So is there a real 'mobile firebase' in real life? while Kitty mera is now plays the role of Bradley ?

 Lone Cat wrote:
So is there a real 'mobile firebase' in real life? while Kitty mera is now plays the role of Bradley ?

Closer to the BMP. Because that's what it was based off of it seems.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Lone Cat wrote:
So is there a real 'mobile firebase' in real life? while Kitty mera is now plays the role of Bradley ?

Closer to the BMP. Because that's what it was based off of it seems.

BMP is an adpt real-world equivalent. Carries troops, has a decent gun, fuel tank is on the back door so any rear shots make it explode and kill all the inhabitants inside. JUst like my damn chimeras. The last 8 times I've had pens on them, 6 of them have exploded.

So besides the points changes to alot of units is there any major stats changes? I'm buying my codex sometime this week.

Do any officers or characters have initiative 4?

If CCS commanders now have I4 than combined with the Deathmask of Ollanius & the Blade of Conquest they might actually be able to survive some CC encounters

The only models with initiative 4 are ratlings and colour sergeant kell.

Lord-Commissar is back on the UK store.

Lul, did anyone realize that rough riders now have the following:

Front armor: 3

Side armor: 1

Rear armor: 3

Wait...Rough Riders have facings?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Wait...Rough Riders have facings?

Yup, they also have:

Initiative: 1

Attacks: 7

Hull Points: 5+

So they're clearly amazing and terrible at the same time.

Not in my codex, they don't. Where are you getting this?

The iBooks enhanced edition.

Clearly they forgot to change the profile and just copy/pasted the sentinel profile. It's a typo.