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Before I waste anyone's time with what I have done, is there a general consensus that Codex: Inquisition needs to be a Codex outside of Grey Knights?

I disagree with the design choice to add another layer to the force org and personally would have been much more satisfied with a legitimate Codex that met the hype GW created.

As it stands, Codex: Inquisition SHOULD include Imperial Assassins and allow you to take a limited number of options from Codex: Space Marines, Adeptus Sororitas and Imperial Guard as your "Conscripted" forces.

I think the main problems with Codex: Inquisition is the fact that it doesn't use the usual allies rules or have any opportunity cost and it's way too easy to put an Inquisitor in an allied unit to buff them with Divination powers (really, Battle Brothers in general are just problematic). Reducing them to allies of convenience for everyone except Sisters and Grey Knights would solve a lot of their issues.

I absolutely don't think that C:I should have 'conscripted' units from other Imperial factions. That's exactly what the allies system is meant to do. Just split the existing henchmen types into more varied units so they can fill each FOC slot (and make sure that there are separate entries for radical and puritan warbands, so you can't have priests and daemonhosts in the same unit).

I'm not convinced that Assassins should be in the Inquisition codex. They actually are one group which I think works well as a totally separate detachment outside the usual allies rules.

I don't actually see anything wrong conceptually with keeping the Inquisition out on their own but adding another FOC is not how I would have done it; I've got concept notes written up for a rulebook inspired by WHFB's old Dogs of War system containing a variety of units that can be taken in the FOC of specific armies. Allies of this sort still use the Allies table (sort of) for determining their alliance level with someone, they do take up FOC slots in the primary detachment, and they can't be your mandatory choices and (usually, Inquisitors are the big exception) can't be your Warlord. Right now the forces I've got set up are the Inquisition, the Legion of the Damned, the Deathwatch, the Officio Assassinorium, the Adeptus Arbites, Kroot Mercenaries, and Eldar Harlequins, though the Mechanicus is a possible addition if I decide there's not enough to give them an entire Codex.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I don't actually see anything wrong conceptually with keeping the Inquisition out on their own but adding another FOC is not how I would have done it; I've got concept notes written up for a rulebook inspired by WHFB's old Dogs of War system containing a variety of units that can be taken in the FOC of specific armies. Allies of this sort still use the Allies table (sort of) for determining their alliance level with someone, they do take up FOC slots in the primary detachment, and they can't be your mandatory choices and (usually, Inquisitors are the big exception) can't be your Warlord. Right now the forces I've got set up are the Inquisition, the Legion of the Damned, the Deathwatch, the Officio Assassinorium, the Adeptus Arbites, Kroot Mercenaries, and Eldar Harlequins, though the Mechanicus is a possible addition if I decide there's not enough to give them an entire Codex.

I decided to have Ordo Specific Inquisitors unlocking Ordo Specific units, Ordo Malleus allows you to take Grey Knights, Ordo Xenos, Deathwatch and Ordo Hereticus, Sisters of Battle.

I also included the Ordo Machinum, Ordo Militium, Ordo Obsuletus, Ordo Sicarius ect

WS: 5 BS:5 S:3 T:3 W:4 I:4 A:4 LD: 10 Sv 4+
Inquisitorial Representative

75 POINTS
Unit Type: Infantry, (Character)
Unit Composition: 1 Inquisitor
Wargear: Carapace Armor, Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Psyk-out Grenades
Special Rules: Independent Character, Fearless
Options:
An Inquisitorial Representative may be given any equipment available from the Armory.
An Inquisitorial Representative may take up to three levels of Psyker mastery for 25 points per level.
An Inquisitorial Representative may elect to be a Puritan or a Radical for 5 points.

All right, so thus far I am aiming to have an Armory akin to the older dexes with multiple layers of access.

No Daemon blades on Ordo Malleus Inquisitors unless they are Radicals ECT.
Different powers generated based on being Puritan or Radical ect.
Different allies based on being Puritan or Radical ECT

I like the idea of different inquisitors unlocking different allied units. I also would like to be able to field a legit Inquisition army.

My only question with the Inquisitorial Rep is why does he have Space Marine strength and toughness? All inquisitors, along with all the other mere mortals in their cadres are S and T 3.

Also, why is there no place for IG in all of this? There's plenty in the fluff about Inquisition working with them too.

 TheNightWillEnd wrote:
I like the idea of different inquisitors unlocking different allied units. I also would like to be able to field a legit Inquisition army.

My only question with the Inquisitorial Rep is why does he have Space Marine strength and toughness? All inquisitors, along with all the other mere mortals in their cadres are S and T 3.

Also, why is there no place for IG in all of this? There's plenty in the fluff about Inquisition working with them too.

He doesn't. Actually his profile is pretty reasonable the only problems are the formatting and probably 4 wounds. For reference:
WS 5
BS 5
S 3
T 3
W 4
I 4
A 4
LD 10
Sv 4+

About the IG: The Inq Rep is supposed to unlock GK, AS and DW as standard units for the codex not as allies. The only organization which is tied to the Inquisition and is part of the IG (sort of) are the Storm Troopers, which imho should be the only thing from C:IG included in the codex. Everything else should be normal allies.

Ive always had models made from extra bits that would work for an inquisition force, but as it stands the "codex" does seem uninspired. Having puritans and radical would certainly have helped and added some extra character to the army. I also think that it was really a mistake for them not to include imperial assassins to the list. On the other hand, the codex inquisition allows you to buy Valkyries for your henchmen which is awesome, but a big potential for spam. Either way, it matters little since inquisition forces have so many allies to choose from that they really dont need that much of their own stuff. Still, it would nice to have the assassins back since those have commonly had a connection with the inquisition and its militant branches.

I was referring to the stats that Clefty posted:

WS BS S T W I A LD Sv
5 5 3 3 4 4 4 10 4+
Inquisitorial Representative

Which is exactly what Shadox posted, just in an easier to read form. The profile you quoted has S3 / T3, not S4 / T4.

It does, however, have A4 / W4, which is pretty outlandish for an Inquisitor. Only Space Marine Chapter Masters have that many Attacks and Wounds!

The Inquisitorial Representative is above Inquisitor Lord, these fools represent the Inquisition within the Lords of Terra and the Council. IE, Better than Inquisitor Lords, Better than Grand Masters of a Conclave, and better than Masters of Cabals.

I toyed around with Puritan/Radical representing stat changes, but instead decided to go with allowing you to generate powers from different disciplines and add separate wargear options, IE, Radical gains access to Pyromancy/Biomancy where Puritans gain access to Telepathy alongside powers akin to Ministorium Priests.



This is the statline, I copy pasted from Word and didn't realize the formatting errors

WS: 5 BS:5 S:3 T:3 W:4 I:4 A:4 LD: 10 Sv 4+

"About the IG: The Inq Rep is supposed to unlock GK, AS and DW as standard units for the codex not as allies. The only organization which is tied to the Inquisition and is part of the IG (sort of) are the Storm Troopers, which imho should be the only thing from C:IG included in the codex. Everything else should be normal allies."

Yes, this is correct in terms of my own design principles.

As it stands, There will five types of Inquisitors, Inquistiorial Representatives, Inquisitor Lords and Inquisitors who can be upgraded to Masters or Grand Masters to represent being the head of a Cabal or Concave respectively.

Also, base Inquisitors (Not Lords or Representatives) have been moved from HQ Choices to Elites but may be taken as an HQ in games under 1250 points

The choices readily available within the codex without additional requirements are Assassins, 0-1 options from GK, 0-2 options from Codex: Space Marines, 0-2 options from the AS, Storm Troopers as troop choices, Land Raiders, Chimeras, Rhinos, Inquistor Warbands are now Troop Choices and are 3-15 rather than 3-12, alongside the aforementioned Inquisitors being shifted to Elites.

The Ordo of your Warlord effects your other choices, IE, Ordo Malleus may take 0-4 options from GK, Ordo Xenos may take 0-5 options from Codex Space Marines, Ordo Hereticus may take 0-5 options from Sisters of battle. (this is without requiring compulsory choices from those Codexes)

As it stands, Each Ordo has a few unique wargear options (Note, There will be an option to choose an Ordo Minoris which will usually result in highly unique wargear options or unique conscripted options, IE Ordo Millitarum may take 0-2 Imperial Guard choices.)

The Ordo Minoris are here to represent the truly Inquisitor aspect of the Codex, rather than fielding additional choices from other codexes, the majority of the Ordo Minoris will reinforce the Deathstar aspect of building a unique Inquisitor as a method of balancing out the Diversity of conscripted troops.

IE: Ordo Chronos: Temporal Disruption 40 pts: Once per game during any Shooting or Assault phase, you may remove all wounds from your Warlord, then place your Warlord alongside any unit that they are a part of in reserve, when your Warlord Arrives from reserves, they may arrive on any turn after being placed in reserves and do so on a 2+ regardless of what turn they entered reserves

There is tons more I am working on, but those are the core concepts I am working with.

Though suggested earlier. I like C:inq out side force orgs but would prefer them to be able to recruit units from any imperial book using a standard 2hq 6tr 3 el fa hs force org. with all in between working as allies of convenience except between inquisitors and henchmen.

Ether that or heavily expand on the henchmen system to include nearly all equipment, body and LD types with some kind of customization tax.

 Desubot wrote:
Though suggested earlier. I like C:inq out side force orgs but would prefer them to be able to recruit units from any imperial book using a standard 2hq 6tr 3 el fa hs force org. with all in between working as allies of convenience except between inquisitors and henchmen.

Ether that or heavily expand on the henchmen system to include nearly all equipment, body and LD types with some kind of customization tax.

How would allowing them to be able to recruit units from any imperial book place them outside of the force org? It sounds like you want to be able to take an Inquisitor and Henchmen with no org tax, which exists already.

My goal is to put the Inquisitors within their own Force Org, allow them to take what they need from specific codex's without Troop/HQ tax from allies, Polish henchmen so they can see more use outside of Servitor/Plasmacannons and give Inquisitors a unique feel as HQ choices that warrant utilizing them as a seperate army, because realistically, nobody runs an Inquisitor as their Warlord, Coteaz with Divination is the extent of the Inquisitions presence in Imperial Armies.

"How would allowing them to be able to recruit units from any imperial book place them outside of the force org? It sounds like you want to be able to take an Inquisitor and Henchmen with no org tax, which exists already. "

Im saying any combination. gk assassin, ig storm troopers, sm sternguard as deathwatch and stuff.

sorry i should specific i meant to say i like the current C:inq that is out side the regular force org.

Edit: VVVVV That two might be cool. or bring back C:WH,DH and make XH

I would prefer if Codex Inquisition was solely Ordo Xenos. The other 2 major Ordos already have Codexes(C:GK, C:SoB). Put Deathwatch, Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, Henchmen, Assassins, etc. in it. Arbites and Tech-priests would fit nicely in there too. Just don't put Ordo Hereticus or Ordo Malleus Inquisitors in there, they already have their own respective Codexes.

No more Inquisitorial Detachments. You want to include an Inquisitor in your army? Choose an Ordo and ally with their codex.

I guess. The Inquisition elements of GK and AS is pretty much nonexistent though. The fact that the Codexes are called Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle is pretty ridiculous when those are the Chamber Militant of specific Ordos. Those codexes where pretty terribly designed anyway

I agree with them being poorly designed, but they need to be fixed individually. I've already put a lot of work into fixing the SoB (check the link in my signature), including adding in Inquisitorial elements. Codex Grey Knights needs to go back to being Codex Daemon Hunters and the Ordo Hereticus and Ordo Xenos elements expunged. Also a Xenos based Codex Inquisition should be closer to a true Inquisitor's army. Ordo Xenos doesn't have a unique chamber militant, they pick and choose the best forces of the Imperium to fight for them. This gets around the rules for conscripting forces, which will be a nightmare with ever changing codexes and rules. No 2 codexes should contain the same named special character, which is what will happen when you start including Karamazov and Corteaz.. Although, please include the Forge World Ordo Xenos special characters.

 J3f wrote:
I would prefer if Codex Inquisition was solely Ordo Xenos. The other 2 major Ordos already have Codexes(C:GK, C:SoB). Put Deathwatch, Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, Henchmen, Assassins, etc. in it. Arbites and Tech-priests would fit nicely in there too. Just don't put Ordo Hereticus or Ordo Malleus Inquisitors in there, they already have their own respective Codexes.

No more Inquisitorial Detachments. You want to include an Inquisitor in your army? Choose an Ordo and ally with their codex.

The SOB are not a part of the Inquisition. They are the fighting arm of the Eclisiarchy. They are in no way in the chain of command of the Inq. They may take orders from them, but that's "optional."

 MWHistorian wrote:

 J3f wrote:
I would prefer if Codex Inquisition was solely Ordo Xenos. The other 2 major Ordos already have Codexes(C:GK, C:SoB). Put Deathwatch, Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, Henchmen, Assassins, etc. in it. Arbites and Tech-priests would fit nicely in there too. Just don't put Ordo Hereticus or Ordo Malleus Inquisitors in there, they already have their own respective Codexes.

No more Inquisitorial Detachments. You want to include an Inquisitor in your army? Choose an Ordo and ally with their codex.

The SOB are not a part of the Inquisition. They are the fighting arm of the Eclisiarchy. They are in no way in the chain of command of the Inq. They may take orders from them, but that's "optional."

False. The Chamber Militants of Each Ordo are within the command structure of the Inquisition, why do you think they have specific Chamber Militants in the first place? You can't Ignore orders from the Inquisition, autonomous bodies such as Chapters can't ignore the Inquisition. After all, the point of the Inquisition is to hold complete authority over their subordinates or whatever forces they can conscript for their cause.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 J3f wrote:
I would prefer if Codex Inquisition was solely Ordo Xenos. The other 2 major Ordos already have Codexes(C:GK, C:SoB). Put Deathwatch, Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, Henchmen, Assassins, etc. in it. Arbites and Tech-priests would fit nicely in there too. Just don't put Ordo Hereticus or Ordo Malleus Inquisitors in there, they already have their own respective Codexes.

No more Inquisitorial Detachments. You want to include an Inquisitor in your army? Choose an Ordo and ally with their codex.

The SOB are not a part of the Inquisition. They are the fighting arm of the Eclisiarchy. They are in no way in the chain of command of the Inq. They may take orders from them, but that's "optional."

It's still the best Codex to stick Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors into. The SoB are the go to force for any Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor. Ask the Celestial Lions how "optional" an order from an Inquisitor is. At best the Ecclesiarchy may be able to override an inquisitor, but they work side by side more often than not. Even if you want to ignore Codex Witch Hunters, the Sisters of Battle have a long history of working with the Ordo Hereticus.

 J3f wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 J3f wrote:
I would prefer if Codex Inquisition was solely Ordo Xenos. The other 2 major Ordos already have Codexes(C:GK, C:SoB). Put Deathwatch, Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, Henchmen, Assassins, etc. in it. Arbites and Tech-priests would fit nicely in there too. Just don't put Ordo Hereticus or Ordo Malleus Inquisitors in there, they already have their own respective Codexes.

No more Inquisitorial Detachments. You want to include an Inquisitor in your army? Choose an Ordo and ally with their codex.

The SOB are not a part of the Inquisition. They are the fighting arm of the Eclisiarchy. They are in no way in the chain of command of the Inq. They may take orders from them, but that's "optional."

It's still the best Codex to stick Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors into. The SoB are the go to force for any Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor. Ask the Celestial Lions how "optional" an order from an Inquisitor is. At best the Ecclesiarchy may be able to override an inquisitor, but they work side by side more often than not. Even if you want to ignore Codex Witch Hunters, the Sisters of Battle have a long history of working with the Ordo Hereticus.

Working alongside is not the same as being a part of. The Army and Marines work side by side all the time, but the Marines are not subordinate to the Army.

In order to disobey an Inquisitor you would need the support of a High Lord of Terra, the Ecclesiarchy just so happens to have one of those. Every Sororitas Convent can't whine to the Ecclesiarch whenever they're asked to do something.

Also the Sisters of Battle are confirmed as the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus. http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Chamber_Militant

 J3f wrote:
In order to disobey an Inquisitor you would need the support of a High Lord of Terra, the Ecclesiarchy just so happens to have one of those. Every Sororitas Convent can't whine to the Ecclesiarch whenever they're asked to do something.

Also the Sisters of Battle are confirmed as the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus. http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Chamber_Militant

This is true.

OH shnap! I stand corrected.

This is what I have been working on the past few hours, let me know what you guys think.

Ordo Malleus: 0-4 Codex: Grey Knight Options, Access to Daemon Hammers
Ordo Xenos: 0-5 Codex: Space Marine Options, Access to Advanced Plasma Weaponry
Ordo Hereticus: 0-5 Codex: Sisters of Battle Options, All models in your Army gains Preferred enemie Psykers
Ordo Aegis: You may take up to Five additional Fortifications
Ordo Astartes: All Models in your Army gain Preferred Enemy Space Marines
Ordo Astra: All Inquisitors in your army roll 3d6 for their Psyker Powers and take the two lowest results, however, if a Perils of the Warp occurs, the model is removed from the game with no saving throws allowed.
Ordo Barbaras: Henchmen Warbands may contain up to twenty models instead of 12
Ordo Custodum: Any Inquisitor may take a Guardian Spear for 20 Points per Model
Ordo Chronos: Your Warlord gains Temporal Disruption: Once per game during any Shooting or Assault phase, you may remove all wounds from your Warlord, then place your Warlord alongside any unit that they are a part of in reserve, they may arrive on any turn after being placed in reserves and always scatter the full distance regardless of modifiers
Ordo Desolatus: Inquisitors in your army may take an Orbital Bombardment at 25 Points per model
Ordo Excorium: Template weapons of Str 8 or greater scatter 3d6 instead of 2d6
Ordo Hydra: Any Inquisitor in your army may be upgraded to an Illuminated Inquisitor for 25pts a model (and receive +1 A, +1 W and Hit and Run )
Ordo Machinum: Any Inquisitor in your army may take Cybernetic Enhancements for 15 points (S4, T4)
Ordo Militarum: 0-6 options from Codex: Imperial Guard/Astra Millitarium
Ordo Militum: All models in your army have the Counter attack special rule
Ordo Necros: Once per game if your Warlord is killed, your Warlord has all wounds removed and is placed within 1” of where they died, your Warlord is no longer considered killed and the game proceeds nomrally

It's all terrible actually.

In low points games it would play out as Codex:(Insert Imperial Army) but better with more options and upgrades.

Ordo Aegis is forced Stronghold Assault.

Balance is all over the place one Ordo gives your warlord a reanimation protocol that effectively doubles his wounds while another just gives your army counter attack.

Also some of it just tramples over the fluff. For one thing Ordo Chronos is considered to have long since disappeared from the Material World. You also made them time travelers when at best they were warp researchers. Not to mention how controllable and deliberate time travel utterly ruins 40k fluff. Just imagine them traveling back in time to prevent the Horus Heresy.