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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/25 21:38:08
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Rogue Inquisitor with Xenos Bodyguards
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Well, they are blending base game of 40k with Apocalypse with the escalation and air power supplements and codexes and some do not want basic play over extended with superheavies/airpower/titans as Apocalypse was to cover that and I do like to break out the whole kit and kaboodle for Apoc. other times, I prefer my platoon skirmishes kept to soldiers and support vehicles at most.
I have experimented with the addition of the superheavy units and they do make for interesting occassional games, but now GW seems to be pushing for it as an "all the time" game, eben though it is still left up too the opposing players deciding between themselves how tame to all out crazy they desire to get.
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"Your mumblings are awakening the sleeping Dragon, be wary when meddling the affairs of Dragons, for thou art tasty and go good with either ketchup or chocolate. "
Dragons fear nothing, if it acts up, we breath magic fire that turns them into marshmallow peeps. We leaguers only cry rivets!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 14:04:45
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Preceptor
Rochester, NY
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Kilkrazy wrote:Is there anyone who thinks 40K is an absolutely marvellous set of rules, already perfect and impossible to improve?
It seems to me that the player base is spread between people who think it's fun and good, all the way to people who have pretty much given up because they think it's got so bad.
It might be the best thing ever, to dump the rules and do a ground up revision. As long as it supported the current fluff and models, and was a good set of rules, would people not accept it?
I don't think there's ever a situation where the rules are impossible to improve because there's always going to be a happy medium between detailed/realistic and playable, and people have varying opinions on where the the spectrum is perfect. Remember when they switched from 2nd to 3rd edition and got rid of everything but D6s? was that good or bad? People are split on their opinion. It certainly made the game easier to play, but it also took away a level of complexity that made things interesting in a lot of cases.
I think at the end of the day, the issue they're having, and have had for at least 5 years, is they're pricing themselves out of new players. The simple fact is the game just doesn't provide enough of a face-value proposition for people to get started and feel like they're getting their money's worth as they build an army. Sure, the boxed sets are a solid value, but everything after that is stupid overpriced when you compare it to other entertainment options like M: TG, video games, etc.
If there were better value there, the rules wouldn't have to be perfect. They would just have to be "good enough." The problem is, the rules aren't rock solid, and for the amount of money (and effort) people have to invest to participate in the hobby, it seems that dedication should be reciprocated more by having better rules and a little more thought out balance.
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Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
- Hanlon's Razor
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 19:23:15
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Furious Raptor
Karlovac, Croatia / Bihac, Bosnia and Herzegovina
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Main problem is that they are leaving behind "skirmish" level of the games which in the first place brought them most success and introduced something like bigger scale Epic.
I can see why are they doing that because lowering overall points cost makes armies bigger and people need to buy more stuff but they just didnt know when to draw a line and say "OK I think this is just too much".
With release of 6 th edition I was surprised with 2nd edition vibe with all random stuff, lots of rules etc. but after Dark Angels codex they started with overpowering armies and completely awful additions to the game (I can draw parallels between this situation in 40k with fall of Fantasy in 6th with Vampire counts, Skavens and of course game destroyers Demons).
P.S. Every time we get thread like this someone mentions Hasbro so my question is for those who played games produced by before mentioned company, how do they handle violence, gore and all other stuff which is taken for normal in Warhammer games. I mean I still see Hasbro as a younger audience fun provider and if they remove that violent part of hobby I think that wouldnt be good for a setting.
GW doesnt have much options to do right now, thing which could pull them up is some sort of skirmish game (all "veteran" players know how good games can be made by GW - Necromunda, Epic, Mordheim, Gorka Morka etc.), but I still think we have some time before GW dies and sells their IP.
Moment I will be sure that they are done is when they release Codex Blood Ravens (I firmly believe that they have it already locked somewhere as a "Plan B" for milking some more cash).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 20:33:29
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
On an Express Elevator to Hell!!
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Hivefleet Oblivion wrote: Kain wrote:
GW dying would give them a way to dominate the wargaming market and gain another IP they could spin into being as huge as Transformers, G.I Joe, D&D, and MLP without overmuch effort with all the hard work of getting a fanbase to build off and basic setting premises that can interest people of before they commercialize the hell out of it being done for them.
Buying out a dying GW is completely in character for them.
Again, this obsession with Hasbro, whose main virtue is being big. If they buy GW, likelihood is that there will be even more moaning minnies than we have right now.
Granted, if new management instituted tournament support, more coherent rules, lower prices, and focused on new player recruitment, we'd all be happier bunnies. But if GW really are dying (which I don't really believe, despite the schadenfreude-addicts' constant refrains ), they're more likely to attract vultures than wizards or white knights.
I don't agree with many things you say Hivefleet Oblivion, but think that you are dead on the money with that comment.
Almost all of the criticisms that can be placed at GW's door have been in some way related to the size of the company, and them being a publically owned company, which feels askew in what has traditionally been a small and personable industry. A company the size of Hasbro will truly be run by 'suits', clinically and efficiently, with little love for the background universe and wargaming culture beyond the money that it brings in. I think the things that people complain about now will be multiplied many times should GW's IP and games ever be bought out.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 20:43:41
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Stalwart Space Marine
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Herzlos wrote: Bomster wrote: They might very much decide that the tabletop game was the albatross around the fluff's neck and could plug the setting into an existing rules frame (like Wizkids more or less did) or create a generic boardgame with some themed models.
And going by GW's current form (do the least comprehensible) then I can still only see that as an improvement.
Yes, but that's basically what we're already getting from FFG*. I don't expect anyone who's got the cash to fully take over GW's intellectual property to be interested in creating and selling a *tabletop game*. However big GW was during its heyday - it still was very much a niche product.
*and I'm mostly happy with that. I utterly dislike their RPG rules (but that's more a personal issue than anything else) , but I love Relic and am keen to try that LCG of theirs)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 21:41:30
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Pacific wrote: A company the size of Hasbro will truly be run by 'suits', clinically and efficiently, with little love for the background universe and wargaming culture beyond the money that it brings in.
Star Wars Miniatures would like a word.
Something that Hasbro generally does well is put the right creative people into the positions they need to be in, and then to a large extent just lets them do their thing. The team behind SWM had an awful lot of creative control over how that game was presented and how it evolved beyond just what the 'suits' thought made the best business sense.
Or, to put it in perspective, they do what GW used to do in the '90s.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 22:11:23
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Regular Dakkanaut
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dubovac wrote:Main problem is that they are leaving behind "skirmish" level of the games which in the first place brought them most success and introduced something like bigger scale Epic.
I can see why are they doing that because lowering overall points cost makes armies bigger and people need to buy more stuff but they just didnt know when to draw a line and say "OK I think this is just too much".
With release of 6 th edition I was surprised with 2nd edition vibe with all random stuff, lots of rules etc. but after Dark Angels codex they started with overpowering armies and completely awful additions to the game (I can draw parallels between this situation in 40k with fall of Fantasy in 6th with Vampire counts, Skavens and of course game destroyers Demons).
P.S. Every time we get thread like this someone mentions Hasbro so my question is for those who played games produced by before mentioned company, how do they handle violence, gore and all other stuff which is taken for normal in Warhammer games. I mean I still see Hasbro as a younger audience fun provider and if they remove that violent part of hobby I think that wouldnt be good for a setting.
GW doesnt have much options to do right now, thing which could pull them up is some sort of skirmish game (all "veteran" players know how good games can be made by GW - Necromunda, Epic, Mordheim, Gorka Morka etc.), but I still think we have some time before GW dies and sells their IP.
Moment I will be sure that they are done is when they release Codex Blood Ravens (I firmly believe that they have it already locked somewhere as a "Plan B" for milking some more cash).
The point about Hasbro often gets brought up when discussing this. However, these are always looked at in the current point in time. The more appropriate time would be where in the near future this could happen, which could well be after GW effectively destroys their own IP in their market at which point the IP would be almost worthless to anyone.
GW is doing the exact opposite in almost every business sense to what a $200m plus company should be doing. They are damaging their channels, constricting their product lines instead of expanding them (this has got to be one of the DUMBEST business decisions I have ever seen a 30 year old company make), raising their prices to the point of being absurd and laughable, and completely ignoring that the internet exists (heck, they demolished all their corporate social media presence today). Everything they are doing is the exact OPPOSITE of what a mature company should be doing. This is Business 101 at this point, but GW is being managed by people that seem to have not even passed the fourth grade.
At this point, about the only thing that is going to save GW is to replace management (all of them) with trained monkeys. I have NEVER seen such a poorly run company (and I have seen quite a few bad ones) in my 50 years on this planet. TSR was run poorly. Kodak was run poorly. GW is run like they are insane. How the board allows this kind of incompetence to continue is beyond me but, if it does continue, this is NOT going to be a gradual decline, it will be a collapse - just like TSR (or Kodak who went from an $15 billion company in 2008 to a $2 billion company in 2012, or Wang Computer who went from $51 billion to $30 million in the space of ONE year - and then continued out of business).
Honestly, they seem to just keep piling on stupid business decision on top of stupid business decision. No IP, no matter how good, can withstand a non-stop assault of utter business stupidity. GW has nowhere near the brand that D&D did during TSRs failure, nor today. It is a niche IP that has stayed stagnant for almost 20 years.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 22:38:48
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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Pacific wrote: A company the size of Hasbro will truly be run by 'suits', clinically and efficiently, with little love for the background universe and wargaming culture beyond the money that it brings in.
So exactly as things are now, except far more efficently. GW is showing itself completely indifferent to the integrity of its fluff, its rules are becoming increasingly unwieldy and obtuse and wargamers are nothing more than (hopefully) bottomless pockets. Even if someone like Disney bought GW they would, in all likelyhood, do no worse than the current management.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/26 22:41:57
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 04:38:45
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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insaniak wrote: Pacific wrote: A company the size of Hasbro will truly be run by 'suits', clinically and efficiently, with little love for the background universe and wargaming culture beyond the money that it brings in.
Star Wars Miniatures would like a word.
Something that Hasbro generally does well is put the right creative people into the positions they need to be in, and then to a large extent just lets them do their thing. The team behind SWM had an awful lot of creative control over how that game was presented and how it evolved beyond just what the 'suits' thought made the best business sense.
Or, to put it in perspective, they do what GW used to do in the '90s.
100% agree with this comment.
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Adam's Motto: Paint, Create, Play, but above all, have fun. -and for something silly below-
"We are the Ultramodrines, And We Shall Fear No Trolls. bear this USR with pride".
Also, how does one apply to be a member of the Ultramodrines? Are harsh trials involved, ones that would test my faith as a wargamer and resolve as a geek?
You must recite every rule of Dakka Dakka. BACKWARDS.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 05:12:43
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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insaniak wrote: Pacific wrote: A company the size of Hasbro will truly be run by 'suits', clinically and efficiently, with little love for the background universe and wargaming culture beyond the money that it brings in.
Star Wars Miniatures would like a word.
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you mean that CMG they introduced at the height of the CMG fad phase got as much money as they could out of it, and then let die?
cause thats basicly what happened
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/27 05:13:19
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 05:45:02
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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BrianDavion wrote:you mean that CMG they introduced at the height of the CMG fad phase got as much money as they could out of it, and then let die?
cause thats basicly what happened
It's really not.
Star Wars minis were supposedly outselling D&D when WotC choose to not renew the licence. And they did so for the same reason they dumped a lot of other games from their stable at the same time - D&D was starting to struggle, and they wanted to focus on it to get it back on track.
While the game was in full swing, though, it got a lot of love from its design team. They put a lot of effort into creating a balanced game with a large array of different competitive squad types while still remaining true to the background. They provided rules support on their forums, prompt FAQ support for new releases, the designers actively engaged with the community, and fan sites, leagues and events were actively encouraged.
40K could use some of that enthusiasm from the people making it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 06:46:07
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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insaniak wrote:40K could use some of that enthusiasm from the people making it.
And some competence.
And some reading comprehension.
And some play-testing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 09:27:21
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Big Fat Gospel of Menoth
The other side of the internet
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H.B.M.C. wrote: insaniak wrote:40K could use some of that enthusiasm from the people making it.
And some competence.
And some reading comprehension.
And some play-testing.
And some new people.
And some talent.
And some game design.
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(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
RAGE
Be sure to use logic! Avoid fallacies whenever possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 09:59:17
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Major
far away from Battle Creek, Michigan
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H.B.M.C. wrote: insaniak wrote:40K could use some of that enthusiasm from the people making it.
And some competence.
And some reading comprehension.
And some play-testing.
Sorry if I'm mistaken, but H.B.M.C., didn't I see you post in another thread that you bought the resin orbital relay tower thing or whatever? To lucidly criticize GW on the one hand, while continuously handing over your money with the other makes you part of the problem.
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PROSECUTOR: By now, there have been 34 casualties.
Elena Ceausescu says: Look, and that they are calling genocide.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 13:04:22
Subject: Re:The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Cackling Chaos Conscript
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Too bad we don't have any one on these boards that works for Hasbro, especially in any departments near M&A. To think that a company the goes around scooping up distressed assets (IP's) would not have at least some cursory scouting around GW is silly. To be a fly on the wall in Hasbro when they discuss this would be great fun.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 13:19:24
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Sslimey Sslyth
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olympia wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote: insaniak wrote:40K could use some of that enthusiasm from the people making it.
And some competence.
And some reading comprehension.
And some play-testing.
Sorry if I'm mistaken, but H.B.M.C., didn't I see you post in another thread that you bought the resin orbital relay tower thing or whatever? To lucidly criticize GW on the one hand, while continuously handing over your money with the other makes you part of the problem.
If I remember correctly from some old H.B.M.C. posts from back in the day, his play group uses a heavily modified, locally designed version of GW based rules because of their dislike for the GW rules as produced.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 13:31:34
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps
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olympia wrote: Sorry if I'm mistaken, but H.B.M.C., didn't I see you post in another thread that you bought the resin orbital relay tower thing or whatever? To lucidly criticize GW on the one hand, while continuously handing over your money with the other makes you part of the problem. So being critical of a company means that you're not allowed to buy product from them? Besides, H.B.M.C. is avowed terrain addict. I doubt you'd have kept him from that piece. Unless it's to do with the realm of battle board...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/27 13:32:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 13:38:24
Subject: Re:The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Bodichi wrote:Too bad we don't have any one on these boards that works for Hasbro, especially in any departments near M&A. To think that a company the goes around scooping up distressed assets (IP's) would not have at least some cursory scouting around GW is silly. To be a fly on the wall in Hasbro when they discuss this would be great fun.
Well, Stephen Baker was spotted visiting GW HQ last year. And if you look at his Facebook page, you can see several endorsements by Andy Jones, Director of Legal and Licensing at GW. Endorsements aren't dated as far as I am aware, but they can't have been made prior to 2012 as LinkedIn did not have the feature until then.
So we at least know that a Hasbro executive with experience with GW IP at the very least had some contact with an executive at GW. Make of that what you will, but to me the idea that such contact is a coincidence defies credulity.
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Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 17:06:23
Subject: Re:The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice
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weeble1000 wrote: Bodichi wrote:Too bad we don't have any one on these boards that works for Hasbro, especially in any departments near M&A. To think that a company the goes around scooping up distressed assets (IP's) would not have at least some cursory scouting around GW is silly. To be a fly on the wall in Hasbro when they discuss this would be great fun.
Well, Stephen Baker was spotted visiting GW HQ last year. And if you look at his Facebook page, you can see several endorsements by Andy Jones, Director of Legal and Licensing at GW. Endorsements aren't dated as far as I am aware, but they can't have been made prior to 2012 as LinkedIn did not have the feature until then.
So we at least know that a Hasbro executive with experience with GW IP at the very least had some contact with an executive at GW. Make of that what you will, but to me the idea that such contact is a coincidence defies credulity.
This was listed under Bakers experience though.
Manager
Games Workshop
Public Company; 1001-5000 employees; GAW; Retail industry
August 1984 – August 1986 (2 years 1 month)
Managed the primary London retail location
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 17:43:50
Subject: Re:The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Red Corsair wrote:weeble1000 wrote: Bodichi wrote:Too bad we don't have any one on these boards that works for Hasbro, especially in any departments near M&A. To think that a company the goes around scooping up distressed assets (IP's) would not have at least some cursory scouting around GW is silly. To be a fly on the wall in Hasbro when they discuss this would be great fun. Well, Stephen Baker was spotted visiting GW HQ last year. And if you look at his Facebook page, you can see several endorsements by Andy Jones, Director of Legal and Licensing at GW. Endorsements aren't dated as far as I am aware, but they can't have been made prior to 2012 as LinkedIn did not have the feature until then. So we at least know that a Hasbro executive with experience with GW IP at the very least had some contact with an executive at GW. Make of that what you will, but to me the idea that such contact is a coincidence defies credulity. This was listed under Bakers experience though. Manager Games Workshop Public Company; 1001-5000 employees; GAW; Retail industry August 1984 – August 1986 (2 years 1 month) Managed the primary London retail location Yea, his first job...30 years ago. What is more likely, that Andy Jones and he were best buds when he managed a GW for a couple of years and that Andy remembered him 30 years later and endorsed him on Linked in...OR...that Andy Jones (the man responsible for schmoozing with important folks outside of GW and ostensibly the man in charge of licensing GW's IP) met with a long-term Hasbro exec familiar with GW and endorsed his LinkedIn to schmooze with him? Maybe Baker and Jones are old buddies, but given that Baker was seen being given a tour of GW HQ, I think it is much more likely that Baker either approached GW as a representative of Hasbro because he is familiar with the company and the IP or that GW approached Baker as a representative of Hasbro because they had an icebreaker in that he managed a GW 30 years ago. The more significant point on Baker's job history is this: Product Design Manager Hasbro Games August 1986 – July 1992 (6 years) Managed European Game Design. My responsibilities included, design, editorial, graphics, schedules and budgets. During this period I developed Childrens, Family and Adult product including titles such as 'HeroQuest', 'Inkognito', 'BattleMasters' and 'Space Crusade'
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/27 17:44:15
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/28 01:27:55
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice
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Notice the part where I didn't contest your points at all and was simply sharing some data about the guy? Sheesh. I think both your points are possible, as are many other explanations. The only facts we have though are that he has a history with the GW and he happened to get endorsed by a guy who also works in the toy industry and for his GW now. Anything else is just blind conjecture. I is interesting however.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/28 03:39:58
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Red Corsair wrote:Notice the part where I didn't contest your points at all and was simply sharing some data about the guy? Sheesh. I think both your points are possible, as are many other explanations. The only facts we have though are that he has a history with the GW and he happened to get endorsed by a guy who also works in the toy industry and for his GW now. Anything else is just blind conjecture. I is interesting however. Except that saying "This was listed under Baker's experience though" sounds like you were contesting the points I was making. The critical word in that sentence is "though," as in 'although you made that point, this information contradicts it,' or 'though maybe you should consider this.' I was not attempting to be harsh or insulting in my response, but it was also reasonable to interpret your phrasing as disagreement. Having made that interpretation I responded by saying that I was aware of the information, had considered it, and made my inference based on different information I felt was more relevant. So no, I did not notice the part where you didn't contest my points. I made a different, though entirely reasonable, interpretation of your post and responded accordingly, which can sometimes happen. Notice the part where you interpreted my response as some sort of insult or personal attack?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/28 03:43:12
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/28 04:00:59
Subject: Re:The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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Wayshuba wrote:
Our continual investment in product quality, using our defendable intellectual property, provides us with a considerable barrier to entry for potential competitors: it is our Fortress Wall. While our 400 or so Hobby centres which show customers how to collect, paint and play with our miniatures and games provide another barrier to entry: our Fortress Moat. We have been building our Fortress Wall and Moat for many years and the competitive advantage they provide gives us confidence in our ability to grow profitably in the future.
 #capitalism
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/28 04:02:17
Tyler
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/28 06:55:51
Subject: Re:The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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From that quote, regarding the uk in particular, they seem proud of the fact they operate a near monopoly having forced out most independent stores. Most towns/cities that have a games shop will be a GW store, because of an aggressive expansion strategy during the 90s. Yes it is quite a barrier for competitors to get in when your strategy is to own all the hobby shops. It's quite distasteful to be so boastful of operating an effective monopoly and stroking their ego with talk of 'moats and fortress walls'. Also it speaks to their bunker mentality. War gaming is a niche hobby in which most companies are tolerant and supportive of each other, go to a proper wargames show and see all the companies and products on display side by side. GW act like it's Berlin 1945 and have to lash out at everything that comes near them. It's no wonder GW are losing sales.
They seem to believe they can force the customer to come to their store. By restricting information online and making their shops and magazine the sole source of new info, and many models through direct only. But you can't twist the arm of your customer base like that, the need for GW plastic crack has it's limits. Some will pursue your models this way but putting so many barriers up to just getting their stuff will make it harder to draw in new customers and put current customers off as they lose interest because they can't read about your stuff and buy your models how they'd like. They don't all want to march down to GW every Saturday to buy your corporate magazine and buy the direct only models you hold back from other hobby shops. And even then they're likely to find out a model like that field generator terrain piece was released but due to GW's own inability to tell people what products are coming up, they're already sold out!!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/28 07:47:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/28 07:08:12
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It's pretty hilarious people complain about the idea of Hasbro, because then the hobby would be run by "suits with no love for the fluff or game".
Am I living in an alternate reality or something? GW has absolutely no care for the fluff or game. In fact, GW actively dislikes you. They hate and have contempt for older gamer-orientated clientele and people who use that new-fangled internet. I can't imagine a company that cares less than its fluff in the face of corporatism, they're literally renaming armies on the basis of not being able to trademark the name. At least Hasbro wouldn't be at war with its customers and on top of that would do things competently rather than the embarrassingly blind/inept policies coming out of GW right now. GW right now treats "the hobby" as a juggling act, a delicate dance to manipulate the numbers for a "positive" investors report to hide falling sales and profits to make it to another year without their shareholders catching on. That's all GW is right now. Hasbro could also lose GW's weird anti-social/"MINE!" policies with their IP that'd see more video games, comics, and movies.
Any company, and I mean any company buying out GW would be a good thing and positively change the current situation. If North Korea bought it, it'd be better. After dabbling in other hobbies (non-GW wargames, comic books, ASOIAF, etc.) for the last year I've come to realize how horrible a company GW is with both customer/fanbase interaction and broad general policy.
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This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/03/28 07:13:58
My Armies:
5,500pts
2,700pts
2,000pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/28 08:10:11
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Hacking Proxy Mk.1
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I think I'd actually love GW to be bought out by suits looking to make money, as long as they are competent suits.
I want to give GW my money, I really do, but their current policies disgust me and their recent releases are uninspiring at best.
A company run by suits who know how to grow a business can bring in people who understand the product and give them a lot of room to play with. They can then put out a quality product that people will actually want to buy again and the suits make money because of that. It really should be that simple, unfortunately it's not though so I guess Spartan Games and Corvus Belli can have my disposable income.
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Fafnir wrote:Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/28 09:06:05
Subject: Re:The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Product Design Manager
Hasbro Games
August 1986 – July 1992 (6 years)
Managed European Game Design. My responsibilities included, design, editorial, graphics, schedules and budgets. During this period I developed Childrens, Family and Adult product including titles such as 'HeroQuest', 'Inkognito', 'BattleMasters' and 'Space Crusade'
I did wonder about this. They could be considering re-releasing such games or updating them for a future release. It could be the success that FFG is having has made them stop and think (Hasbro that is). Like a lot of posters I don't think GW being bought out by Hasbro would be bad either.
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Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about his religion. Respect others in their views and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life. Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. When your time comes to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home.
Lt. Rorke - Act of Valor
I can now be found on Facebook under the name of Wulfstan Design
www.wulfstandesign.co.uk
http://www.voodoovegas.com/
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/28 09:10:19
Subject: Re:The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Howard A Treesong wrote:
From that quote, regarding the uk in particular, they seem proud of the fact they operate a near monopoly having forced out most independent stores. Most towns/cities that have a games shop will be a GW store, because of an aggressive expansion strategy during the 90s. Yes it is quite a barrier for competitors to get in when your strategy is to own all the hobby shops. ...
...
It’s true there used to be more independent high street games shops in the 80s and they seemed to be pushed out in the 90s when GW were aggressively expanding and sold a wide range of products, not just Warhammer FB/ 40K. Orc’s Nest in central London is the only hobby game shop still going that I remember from those days.
However there used also to be a lot more model shops, and a lot fewer mobile phone shops, so I don’t think GW is exclusively to blame.
The retail landscape has changed and is still changing due to the Internet.
Now that GW only sell Warhammer FB/ 40K, the opportunity is there in theory for anyone to set up a more widely based game shop, and we are seeing some of them like Dark Sphere. The key thing is not to depend on Warhammer, and to grow the market for other systems and products.
I am speaking about the UK, of course.
And I am off topic since TSR never operated shops.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/28 09:11:34
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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MtG is owned by Hasbro and is handled very well. The 'suits' give the people working on it the freedom to do many of the things GW don't. Their websites and daily blog, competitions, responding to customers, their tournaments, the pre-release events supported at retailers are big things. What events do GW support? Almost nothing, their new releases are just put on the shelf for you to buy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/28 09:15:56
Subject: The parallels of GW today and the last two years of TSR
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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The mystery of GW is how they recruit new customers.
There is no marketing or publicity, so they seem to depend on walk-in at their shops, and word of mouth from current users.
That is where I think they are possibly heading for a fall. The "anti-GW" sentiment has grown so much in the past few years (for very obvious reasons) that veterans are clearly much less enthusiastic about helping to recruit new players.
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