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 RiTides wrote:
Stretches seem to be things that'd be in the box anyway, so far.

QFT. Not that I'm completely opposed to it, because sometimes there are legitimately things that people want to squeeze in to games, but the games would be complete (though not as nice) without them, i.e. a good use of a stretch goal, but with CMoN and the like, I really think that larger companies should start with their actual goal, and stretch goals should be bonuses rather than completing the product.

The poster I got for sedition wars at Gencon a few years back didn't even make it home. It seems like a... Poor choice to say the least. At least Monopoly comes with a cardboard mat.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
The poster I got for sedition wars at Gencon a few years back didn't even make it home. It seems like a... Poor choice to say the least. At least Monopoly comes with a cardboard mat.

I said this on the Kickstarter, but I'll say it again here:

In the box you're getting a rubber-backed playmat, same quality, same material as any other playmat from various card games (MtG, etc etc). This is the only component you actively need to play the game, aside from the cards... Hell, you don't really even need that, could just set everything up on a table.

The Poster is nice, yes, but not a necessity, plus in the Kickstarter you're getting fold-out Lane Boards, which, combined with the rubber mat, are all you need (the Lanes in themselves are really only 10 slots, 8 for cards, 1 for deck, 1 for discard- nothing at all you cant just lay out).

So focusing on the poster and stating it "needs upgrading"... well that's what the playmat and lane-boards are. That's exactly what they are.

CMoN_MrBlack wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
The poster I got for sedition wars at Gencon a few years back didn't even make it home. It seems like a... Poor choice to say the least. At least Monopoly comes with a cardboard mat.

I said this on the Kickstarter, but I'll say it again here:

In the box you're getting a rubber-backed playmat, same quality, same material as any other playmat from various card games (MtG, etc etc). This is the only component you actively need to play the game, aside from the cards... Hell, you don't really even need that, could just set everything up on a table.

The Poster is nice, yes, but not a necessity, plus in the Kickstarter you're getting fold-out Lane Boards, which, combined with the rubber mat, are all you need (the Lanes in themselves are really only 10 slots, 8 for cards, 1 for deck, 1 for discard- nothing at all you cant just lay out).

So focusing on the poster and stating it "needs upgrading"... well that's what the playmat and lane-boards are. That's exactly what they are.

I'm assuming you mean rubber-mats like mouse pads? I love those- I have several. They're great for card tournaments. People get sweaty after a while, so it's nice to know you have an extra layer of protection on the table.

The main concern is after the kickstarter, if I bought this at retail I'd have to use the poster correct? The box won't come with the lane-boards? Granted you mentioned one could just lay them out, but why only include the boards with the kickstarter? It seems like a convenience that would be appreciated later.

You get the playmat in the game box.

Why have the poster instead of boards?

Cost. Game right now retails at $60.00 USD, if we had the 4x game boards in there, it would be $75.00

At retail you can purchase the boards for $15.00 if you want... If you dont want them, then fine, you just have your $60.00 base game.

This way people at least have the option of buying them or not.

And before any comments about "Well it should just be in the box for $60.00"... I'd like people to take a moment and remember that production costs exist, that $60.00 isn't just pure profit.

In the end we wanted to keep it a lower base cost and give people the option, should they want it, to get the boards.

Again, we found that after a while, some of our testers stopped using the lane boards entirely, opting for just the area the playmat takes up.

I can see the point there - the poster is more of a 'tutorial' to show correct layout, the mat is the only thing required for gameplay, and the lanes are to look cool/act as a reminder.

I will say that $60 is on the premium end for a card game - I'd expect that to translate to a £45 RRP in the UK. As a comparison, 'Trains' is another $60 deck builder with 530 cards, a proper double-sided cardboard board, and a fistful of wooden cubes/shapes.

But of course, there's plenty of room for stretch goals yet (...one...card...at a time) and the Kickstarter itself is at least a bit better value than the eventual discounted retail price.

CMoN - Do you know what material the KS-exclusive Ajax will be made from?

Looking a bit closer, it does appear to be competitively priced(at retail). Thunderstone sits at 500+ cards at $70. Resident Evil/Tanto Cuore/others at 250+ at $50. Of course Domnion sits at $45 for 500(at retail). The kickstarter price is definately a fair deal for Plants vs Zombies the card game. No one would be hurt buying it, as long as gameplay is solid.

I was going to pledge... Until I saw that shipping would be charged at a later date.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Looking a bit closer, it does appear to be competitively priced(at retail). Thunderstone sits at 500+ cards at $70. Resident Evil/Tanto Cuore/others at 250+ at $50. Of course Domnion sits at $45 for 500(at retail). The kickstarter price is definately a fair deal for Plants vs Zombies the card game. No one would be hurt buying it, as long as gameplay is solid.

Right, but taking Thunderstone as an example, that game is definitely 'premium' - again, it has a full-size cardboard board to play on, a fistful of plastic tokens, and the cards are top-notch plasticised linen. I think this game is competitively priced (towards the upper end), I just think the "our play area has to be made from paper rather than cardboard due to cost" argument doesn't hold as much water, because similar games absolutely do feature this. Also, most boardgamers I know just hate playing on paper - admittedly the ones that sleeve all of their cards...

Bioptic wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Looking a bit closer, it does appear to be competitively priced(at retail). Thunderstone sits at 500+ cards at $70. Resident Evil/Tanto Cuore/others at 250+ at $50. Of course Domnion sits at $45 for 500(at retail). The kickstarter price is definately a fair deal for Plants vs Zombies the card game. No one would be hurt buying it, as long as gameplay is solid.

Right, but taking Thunderstone as an example, that game is definitely 'premium' - again, it has a full-size cardboard board to play on, a fistful of plastic tokens, and the cards are top-notch plasticised linen. I think this game is competitively priced (towards the upper end), I just think the "our play area has to be made from paper rather than cardboard due to cost" argument doesn't hold as much water, because similar games absolutely do feature this. Also, most boardgamers I know just hate playing on paper - admittedly the ones that sleeve all of their cards...

Oh I agree with you. Of course the mousepad mat is included with the base game.
Over 400 beautifully illustrated cards
1 Large fold-out poster gameboard
1 Rubber backed playmat
2 D10 dice - for tracking base health points.
20 Cardboard wound markers
20 Cardboard ability markers
1 Specially designed Vacuum formed tray - designed to organize and hold all your cards, both with and without sleeves.
1 Rule book.
Of course, I don't understand why the poster is included at all. Why not just a bigger mat?


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And the stretch goals seem like basic stuff. Additional cards to include in the game? Why are these not just part of the game?

Thanks for those posts Bioptic / Sinful_Hero, they are helpful comparisons as I have little experience here except with Dominion (which I dislike, and felt was somewhat pricey for what I got). This game not being primarily a deck builder is what has me interested.

But single card stretch goals are kind of funny

Nice style.
won't buy it though.

 RiTides wrote:
Thanks for those posts Bioptic / Sinful_Hero, they are helpful comparisons as I have little experience here except with Dominion (which I dislike, and felt was somewhat pricey for what I got). This game not being primarily a deck builder is what has me interested.

But single card stretch goals are kind of funny

Dominion is definately not one of my favorites. I imagine deck builders like Thunderstone or Resident Evil(still a good game even if you're not familiar with the series) would be more to your taste. They are a little more interactive than Dominion. Each player has to craft a deck to take on monsters to score points, instead of just buying points or win conditions.

Single card stretch goals make little sense at all. Is the cost for an additional card just that high? Especially with the Bile Roach, as it is already included in the game. With a miniatures game adding an additional mini is a significant cost genetally(in time and cash). I assume the printer isn't going to take an obscene amount of time to print out an additional 1000 Bile Roaches when it's already spewing out the 100 card sheets.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Thanks for those posts Bioptic / Sinful_Hero, they are helpful comparisons as I have little experience here except with Dominion (which I dislike, and felt was somewhat pricey for what I got). This game not being primarily a deck builder is what has me interested.

But single card stretch goals are kind of funny

Dominion is definately not one of my favorites. I imagine deck builders like Thunderstone or Resident Evil(still a good game even if you're not familiar with the series) would be more to your taste. They are a little more interactive than Dominion. Each player has to craft a deck to take on monsters to score points, instead of just buying points or win conditions.

Single card stretch goals make little sense at all. Is the cost for an additional card just that high? Especially with the Bile Roach, as it is already included in the game. With a miniatures game adding an additional mini is a significant cost genetally(in time and cash). I assume the printer isn't going to take an obscene amount of time to print out an additional 1000 Bile Roaches when it's already spewing out the 100 card sheets.

You should really look into a game called Trains, it might be right up your ally.

Doesn't even seem worth it calling a single card a stretch goal... Seems like it would be more effort making the graphic then it's worth.

I think my problem with the poster is the following:

If it's really not necessary, then just have a big cheat sheet on the box/back of the rules/whatever that shows how you set up. If it is necessary, then it should be made out of a decent material. Having a cheap play space isn't a good plan on an expensive game...

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
I think my problem with the poster is the following:

If it's really not necessary, then just have a big cheat sheet on the box/back of the rules/whatever that shows how you set up. If it is necessary, then it should be made out of a decent material. Having a cheap play space isn't a good plan on an expensive game...

It's not uncommon in games. Quarriors has a little diagram in the rulebook. So does marvel Dice masters. And in the Thunderstone expansions they are paper.

The point is that the map is completely superfluous and is simply a nice boxes add on for tutorial and learning purposes. Get a few games in and you likely won't even use it. From my game plays, the neoprene mat isn't really necessary either, but just helps with organization.

It's just odd to hear people say that they'd prefer them not to include it at all if the (superfluous) mat is going to be in paper.

To be fair, the paper play areas of Quarriors and not providing a real mat is one of the most common criticisms of that game that I have heard. It's another game that's not the best value, but I have it because I love dice . I'd pay for mats for each player in a heartbeat, though.

Glad I poked you into posting here, but where's my Kickstarter-link-in-the-OP edit?

 RiTides wrote:
To be fair, the paper play areas of Quarriors and not providing a real mat is one of the most common criticisms of that game that I have heard. It's another game that's not the best value, but I have it because I love dice . I'd pay for mats for each player in a heartbeat, though.

I didn't realize that. We simply printed some out from the Internet and laminated them. We did the same with Marvel Dice Masters.

Glad I poked you into posting here, but where's my Kickstarter-link-in-the-OP edit?

Updated

I'll have to figure out how to post stretch goals and those things. I'm typically doing this from my phone or table so a lot of cut and pasting can't happen till I get home.

There's a mat for Quarriors? We always just set the dice on the cards, and rolled them in front of us.

 RiTides wrote:
Thanks for those posts Bioptic / Sinful_Hero, they are helpful comparisons as I have little experience here except with Dominion (which I dislike, and felt was somewhat pricey for what I got). This game not being primarily a deck builder is what has me interested.

But single card stretch goals are kind of funny

I find myself agreeing with RhodeIslandTides on this one - single card stretch goals do seem like a bit of a...stretch.

I would just like to clarify some stuff on here that has been clarified over on the KS. Mr. Black stated that both the Bile Roach and the foil card are new. The Bile Roach is not the same wave 1 boss being added but a BRAND NEW boss being added so that card was never in the decks to being with. Also the foil card is ONLY KS. It will never be in the core deck and a different graphics card may be released at special conventions but it would be non-foiled. As for now the new foil card will only ever be a KS character and the Roach is not simply the same wave 1 boss being doubled up but a brand new boss being added. I still say they need a few more stretch goals to make it totally worth it but its going in the right direction. Also some vague hint in the comments about possible expansions or something. Don't hold me to that last part but it seems they may still have a few more surprises up their sleeves.

Huh? I could have sworn that the Bile Roach text mentions it was "another" Roach added to the game box. Looking now, it appears it doesn't! Did I imagine that, or has it been changed since this morning?

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Huh? I could have sworn that the Bile Roach text mentions it was "another" Roach added to the game box. Looking now, it appears it doesn't! Did I imagine that, or has it been changed since this morning?

It's "another" wave 1 boss. I think the previous text was a little ambiguous about that.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Huh? I could have sworn that the Bile Roach text mentions it was "another" Roach added to the game box. Looking now, it appears it doesn't! Did I imagine that, or has it been changed since this morning?

It's "another" wave 1 boss. I think the previous text was a little ambiguous about that.

I suppose you're right. My mistake then. Still in an uproar about single card stretch goals though!

 Sinful Hero wrote:

I suppose you're right. My mistake then. Still in an uproar about single card stretch goals though!

Im a little underwhelmed by them myself.

I do have the good fortune of having played the game three times so I have a good sense that I'll enjoy what I'm getting. Additionally, I know there have been whispers that the Mini will eventually be usable for something else, so I'm also looking forward to that.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

I suppose you're right. My mistake then. Still in an uproar about single card stretch goals though!

Im a little underwhelmed by them myself.

I do have the good fortune of having played the game three times so I have a good sense that I'll enjoy what I'm getting. Additionally, I know there have been whispers that the Mini will eventually be usable for something else, so I'm also looking forward to that.

Single card stretch goals, a fairly high price (for a KS game) and having to pay shipping at some point down the road meens I'm most likely going to pass on this one. I payed less for my copy of Euphoria through Kickstarter and that game had absolutly beautiful components and free shipping.

 Catyrpelius wrote:


Single card stretch goals, a fairly high price (for a KS game) and having to pay shipping at some point down the road meens I'm most likely going to pass on this one. I payed less for my copy of Euphoria through Kickstarter and that game had absolutly beautiful components and free shipping.

Again, i am also a bit underwhelmed by the single card stretches, but calling this high priced is pretty disingenuous.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Catyrpelius wrote:


Single card stretch goals, a fairly high price (for a KS game) and having to pay shipping at some point down the road meens I'm most likely going to pass on this one. I payed less for my copy of Euphoria through Kickstarter and that game had absolutly beautiful components and free shipping.

Again, i am also a bit underwhelmed by the single card stretches, but calling this high priced is pretty disingenuous.

No I think it's a pretty legitimate complaint... I can buy Trains right now on Amazon for $35.30 with Prime shipping. This with a retail price of $60 is almost a joke.

Dominion is in amazon for $30(a discounted price). As a prime member I get free two-day shipping as well. $50 for this game is about what I would expect to pay after a discount on retail myself. Plus free shipping. Of course the mini and lane boards probably still make it a "fair" deal, I personally will wait until reviews are out.

I mean, I'm not going to go back and forth with you two. I think it's appropriately priced foe the market, as it falls right in line with games like the Pathfinder Card Game.

I'm unconcerned with shipping, and I have amazon prime as well. And I pay for it every year. So it isn't like prime is free.

I don't think we're going to agree on this, so I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise. To me, phrases like "almost a joke" are pretty hyperbolic.


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I'll also note that Dominion is incredibly bland and it would take a few top less models to convince me to play it.


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Additionally, BattleCon: War Remastered is on KS right now for $50. So clearly the price point for this one is pretty close to where it should be.