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Given that we haven't heard anything about buggies, and nothing about Wazzdakka or taking Bikerz as troops, it really suggests to me that the Codex is going to be disappointing for Speed Freeks. On the other hand, that makes me think that there might be a second "wave" with a Evil Suns/Speed Freeks supplement, buggies, koptas, and either Wazzdakka or a biker character model (which could let you make a boss, biker mek, or biker doc). After all, they moved Nork into the Ogryns box, so there's precedent for a plastic box with a character option in it now.

That's pure speculation, but it would explain why we haven't heard leaks about warbuggies/wartrakks/deffkoptas even though some of the models are ancient, and other models are unavailable.

In the short term, it would be disappointing for the Evil Suns gits among us, but in the long run, it might be better (it would be better if you didn't have to pay $50 for a second book, of course, but two books is better than a boot in the janglies).

@Dragonzord: I'm pretty sure no one here wants Orks to be overpowered, merely that we want as many options to be valid choices, rather than having a dex like tyranids or CSM where you only have a small amount of "good" units and a load of unit that are 'Meh" at best and useless at worst.

While I started out in Da Kult uv Speed, I realized I'm a Bad Moon at heart...so I'm really excited to see if this turns out to be a Freebootaz or Bad Moonz supplement to start off the Orkiness and a precursor to the Ork Codex.


I like the Ork attitude, I love to paint and convert, I love fluff...but I also love to compete. I love showing up with Orks to tournaments. I don't go fer the numbers much though, I'm like Han Solo...never tell me the odds

as ork players, it is not ours to think too hard about whether or not we can win according to the numbers...
our place is to bring more boyz, have more dakka, stompier walkers, an' be generally krumpier than the other guys, whether they be 'umies, pointy-ears, blue, or undead robots...
if we wins, we wins. if we runs away, we can come back to fight again, so that don't count as defeat. if we dies, that don't count as defeat neither.

hurtmypony wrote:

Take what you like, use it in your game and make it work for you. If not slap some new plans and scrap together and try again. Imagine how impotent the ork race would be if they were as afraid of failure and as full of unfounded reservations as we are.

Yeh, well, 'ooz gunna be surpplyin' der teef if it DON'T work, eh? Maybe'z I'll jus' 'ave th' Dok hold yer down whilt I goes an' fetches his big pullerz!

($105 is a large chunk of change for a model that might not see more than a few experimental games...)

Could always proxy one for a few games first

Dragonzord wrote:
I personally think that orks arent meant to be WAAC competitive taudar basilisk spam demon summoners 'i win button'

They're the silly army, the comic relief. They're good and can win, but none of the above should be applied to orks imo.

Edit: People were talking about Ork novels, but i cant find anything for them in the Black Library...

this isn't an attack at you dragon, so please don't take it as one.

but i personally cannot stand this mindset about orks. orks are illiterate, and maybe even backwater dumb. but there isn't anything to me funny about a race that was created for war and conquering.

what's funny about a warboss ripping faces off?? that's horrific.
what's funny about an ork that stalks through the shadows slitting throats?? nothing, he's even used as a means to frighten children into behaving. not roll on a random table for the lol.
what's funny about dropping huge meteors on a hive city OUT OF SPITE? nothing.

orks are for killing, combat, war, and winning.

sure they sound goofy, and their tech is crazy, but its devastating.

this is my personal opinion and not meant to insult anyone, but its WAAAAAGH!!! not LUUUUUULZ

I've never really understood why people feel competitive orks and fun/silly orks are mutually exclusive. IMO orks should be playable in a reasonably serious way if you desire, as it seems to me many ork warbosses would be serious and would attract more serious orks to themselves. Then on top of that, you should have silly and random options, the sort of options that aren't necessarily bad, but things that have a good chance of wiping out large swathes of enemies but also a good chance of wiping out large swathes of your own troops.

Orks should have just as much chance of winning as losing, but (if the general chooses to take some of the more random options) the outcome could be swayed either by a good opponent OR the orks just screwing up and destroying themselves in the endless pursuit of more dakka.

 zachwho wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:
I personally think that orks arent meant to be WAAC competitive taudar basilisk spam demon summoners 'i win button'

They're the silly army, the comic relief. They're good and can win, but none of the above should be applied to orks imo.

Edit: People were talking about Ork novels, but i cant find anything for them in the Black Library...

this isn't an attack at you dragon, so please don't take it as one.

but i personally cannot stand this mindset about orks. orks are illiterate, and maybe even backwater dumb. but there isn't anything to me funny about a race that was created for war and conquering.

what's funny about a warboss ripping faces off?? that's horrific.
what's funny about an ork that stalks through the shadows slitting throats?? nothing, he's even used as a means to frighten children into behaving. not roll on a random table for the lol.
what's funny about dropping huge meteors on a hive city OUT OF SPITE? nothing.

orks are for killing, combat, war, and winning.

sure they sound goofy, and their tech is crazy, but its devastating.

this is my personal opinion and not meant to insult anyone, but its WAAAAAGH!!! not LUUUUUULZ

Kunnin but brutal?

...

Brutal but kunnin?

Theyre a lot smarter than they seem (in their own way)

I agree with you Zack,

 zachwho wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:
I personally think that orks arent meant to be WAAC competitive taudar basilisk spam demon summoners 'i win button'

They're the silly army, the comic relief. They're good and can win, but none of the above should be applied to orks imo.

Edit: People were talking about Ork novels, but i cant find anything for them in the Black Library...

this isn't an attack at you dragon, so please don't take it as one.

but i personally cannot stand this mindset about orks. orks are illiterate, and maybe even backwater dumb. but there isn't anything to me funny about a race that was created for war and conquering.

what's funny about a warboss ripping faces off?? that's horrific.
what's funny about an ork that stalks through the shadows slitting throats?? nothing, he's even used as a means to frighten children into behaving. not roll on a random table for the lol.
what's funny about dropping huge meteors on a hive city OUT OF SPITE? nothing.

orks are for killing, combat, war, and winning.

sure they sound goofy, and their tech is crazy, but its devastating.

this is my personal opinion and not meant to insult anyone, but its WAAAAAGH!!! not LUUUUUULZ

It's true that with all the weird and the easy-to-smash green skin (grots & orks), we (at least I) sometime forget about the fact that they are, according to GW and all the fluff, *the* race that lives for war
and you know, I thin the 'Orkanaut represents that pretty well: it's an effigy to war, a big bulky piece of metal covered with weapons of all type and with a belly that can spit a group of crazy deadly orkz at the face of the ennemy
it may not be efficient, it's just a killing machine

 zachwho wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:
I personally think that orks arent meant to be WAAC competitive taudar basilisk spam demon summoners 'i win button'

They're the silly army, the comic relief. They're good and can win, but none of the above should be applied to orks imo.

Edit: People were talking about Ork novels, but i cant find anything for them in the Black Library...

this isn't an attack at you dragon, so please don't take it as one.

but i personally cannot stand this mindset about orks. orks are illiterate, and maybe even backwater dumb. but there isn't anything to me funny about a race that was created for war and conquering.

what's funny about a warboss ripping faces off?? that's horrific.
what's funny about an ork that stalks through the shadows slitting throats?? nothing, he's even used as a means to frighten children into behaving. not roll on a random table for the lol.
what's funny about dropping huge meteors on a hive city OUT OF SPITE? nothing.

orks are for killing, combat, war, and winning.

sure they sound goofy, and their tech is crazy, but its devastating.

this is my personal opinion and not meant to insult anyone, but its WAAAAAGH!!! not LUUUUUULZ

No personal attack taken at all. Its just how I view orks.

When all the other armies had set rules for them, like S4, assault 2, the orks had random. Weirdboyz, lootas, dont touch that, flash gits, stormboyz. Things that before 6th, were just plain random, and rivaled 6th in the random factor. That to me is the comedy value of orks, and why i find them as a comedic race. They were never serious enough to build stuff that is 100% reliable.

Thats why i love orks. Its a battle of 'will you actually do what i need you to this turn, or will you press that and make me think of other strategies?' of course they press it!

 zachwho wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:
I personally think that orks arent meant to be WAAC competitive taudar basilisk spam demon summoners 'i win button'

They're the silly army, the comic relief. They're good and can win, but none of the above should be applied to orks imo.

Edit: People were talking about Ork novels, but i cant find anything for them in the Black Library...

this isn't an attack at you dragon, so please don't take it as one.

but i personally cannot stand this mindset about orks. orks are illiterate, and maybe even backwater dumb. but there isn't anything to me funny about a race that was created for war and conquering.

what's funny about a warboss ripping faces off?? that's horrific.
what's funny about an ork that stalks through the shadows slitting throats?? nothing, he's even used as a means to frighten children into behaving. not roll on a random table for the lol.
what's funny about dropping huge meteors on a hive city OUT OF SPITE? nothing.

orks are for killing, combat, war, and winning.

sure they sound goofy, and their tech is crazy, but its devastating.

this is my personal opinion and not meant to insult anyone, but its WAAAAAGH!!! not LUUUUUULZ

Exalted.
Long time reader first time blogger!

I just wanted to say. . .
I love the way the orks look and operate. But why do they have to baby talk each other? I love my ork army but if another dork starts baby talking me with a british accent at the gaming club im gonna drop an astroid on his house.

nice to meet you all!
Im Warboss dorkpuncher

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
@Dragonzord: I'm pretty sure no one here wants Orks to be overpowered, merely that we want as many options to be valid choices, rather than having a dex like tyranids or CSM where you only have a small amount of "good" units and a load of unit that are 'Meh" at best and useless at worst.

This is how I feel our current dex is right now. You have boyz, lootas, dakkajets, BWs, bikerbosses, nob bikers, Big meks with KFF that were the good things and everything else was meh or bad. Even the "good" units that we have right now are showing their age.

lol dorkpuncher!!

i just get tired of the random, we already have to roll a d6 for everything, and i really can't stand random that hurts my army, from within my army.

 zachwho wrote:
lol dorkpuncher!!

i just get tired of the random, we already have to roll a d6 for everything, and i really can't stand random that hurts my army, from within my army.

I don't typically like random, but some things I find fun, like fanatics in WHFB. Things have to be characterful and thus random, rather applying randomness in an attempt to make something characterful.

 Billagio wrote:

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
@Dragonzord: I'm pretty sure no one here wants Orks to be overpowered, merely that we want as many options to be valid choices, rather than having a dex like tyranids or CSM where you only have a small amount of "good" units and a load of unit that are 'Meh" at best and useless at worst.

This is how I feel our current dex is right now. You have boyz, lootas, dakkajets, BWs, bikerbosses, nob bikers, Big meks with KFF that were the good things and everything else was meh or bad. Even the "good" units that we have right now are showing their age.

We've also got Big Gunz, Meganobs, Deffkoptas and the Stompa in the list of effective units. That's like half the codex.

Only Flash Gitz, Stormboys, Kommandos and Looted Wagons are downright bad. We know at least one of those got fixed.

Randomness is cool I agree however there must be some trade off to be balanced.

Let's take some rather simple examples:

A typical unit, across any book get a certain piece of wargear allow it to 3 something. It can be 3 hits, for the sake of this conversation.
Making this more random you can go simple with a random generator going from 2-4 (like 1D3+1) which gives your on average the same with sometimes less, and sometimes more.

That's simple, effective and maybe a bit boring.

You can also decide, roll a D6:
1 - you die
2- you get 2 hits
3- you get 3 hits
4- you get 4 hits
5- you get 5 hits
6- you get 6 hits
High risk - high reward, you average 4 hits which is 1 more than the standard wargear, but you also have a 1 in 6 chance to lose everything

Orks at the moment feel more like:
1-2: you get no hit
3-5: you get 2 hits
6: you get 3 hits

That's more some risk, no reward. You roll well, you are just as good as the rest, you roll average you are slightly below, you roll poorly you get jacked.

The Gorkanaut feels very much like this, you roll poorly you hit nothing,
you roll high you are finally pulling your weight.
you roll average, you are an overpriced piece of metal.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
@Dragonzord: I'm pretty sure no one here wants Orks to be overpowered, merely that we want as many options to be valid choices, rather than having a dex like tyranids or CSM where you only have a small amount of "good" units and a load of unit that are 'Meh" at best and useless at worst.

This is how I feel our current dex is right now. You have boyz, lootas, dakkajets, BWs, bikerbosses, nob bikers, Big meks with KFF that were the good things and everything else was meh or bad. Even the "good" units that we have right now are showing their age.

We've also got Big Gunz, Meganobs, Deffkoptas and the Stompa in the list of effective units. That's like half the codex.

Only Flash Gitz, Stormboys, Kommandos and Looted Wagons are downright bad. We know at least one of those got fixed.

I suppose youre right. I guess I was including things that you see almost every game.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Only Flash Gitz, Stormboys, Kommandos and Looted Wagons are downright bad. We know at least one of those got fixed.

- Deff Dread? I meant when was the last time you fielded a deff dread? As usual with orks, it's not "downright bad" it's just very very expensive for what it does
- Old Zogwort and his BS0

Fellers, we have nothing on the randomness of the Daemons. The dex... The dex is gonna be what it it will be. None of us with zillions of green skins are not gonna buy it. Or at least play it. The most disappointment we will have are new must buy units for it to work. I mean I have ZILLIONS and need more? Dag nab bit! GW=Evil Geniuses.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I've never really understood why people feel competitive orks and fun/silly orks are mutually exclusive. IMO orks should be playable in a reasonably serious way if you desire, as it seems to me many ork warbosses would be serious and would attract more serious orks to themselves. Then on top of that, you should have silly and random options, the sort of options that aren't necessarily bad, but things that have a good chance of wiping out large swathes of enemies but also a good chance of wiping out large swathes of your own troops.

Orks should have just as much chance of winning as losing, but (if the general chooses to take some of the more random options) the outcome could be swayed either by a good opponent OR the orks just screwing up and destroying themselves in the endless pursuit of more dakka.

Quoted for truth.

 Greyhound wrote:
Randomness is cool I agree however there must be some trade off to be balanced.

Orks at the moment feel more like:
1-2: you get no hit
3-5: you get 2 hits
6: you get 3 hits

That's more some risk, no reward. You roll well, you are just as good as the rest, you roll average you are slightly below, you roll poorly you get jacked.

The Gorkanaut feels very much like this, you roll poorly you hit nothing,
you roll high you are finally pulling your weight.
you roll average, you are an overpriced piece of metal.

Again, agreed. I'm having the feeling this is the way rulezboyz actually see Orks.
Then, the only way to have balance would be to see an important drop in points.

 Greyhound wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Only Flash Gitz, Stormboys, Kommandos and Looted Wagons are downright bad. We know at least one of those got fixed.

- Deff Dread? I meant when was the last time you fielded a deff dread? As usual with orks, it's not "downright bad" it's just very very expensive for what it does
- Old Zogwort and his BS0

Dread just got a boost in survivability and less competition for heavy slots (or objective secured if you have a big mek), making it significantly less terrible.

Zogwort and ork psykers in general are useless at the moment, but guaranteed to change.

Da Butcha wrote:
Given that we haven't heard anything about buggies, and nothing about Wazzdakka or taking Bikerz as troops, it really suggests to me that the Codex is going to be disappointing for Speed Freeks.

We have not heard anything about any non-new units though, so it's the same for battlewagons, trukks, or even dakkajets.
The silence is overwhelming and everywhere, we know nothing!

still no leaks from WD daily ... and nothing to expect tomorrow (paint guide for 'Orkanauts) ...

GW's playing with us!!

Brutal drybrushin!

 Greyhound wrote:
Really though unbound is not the mother of all evil, nothing bad happens when you play unbound, you just lose a reroll on the negligible warlord trait, and you can't shake other troops off objectives.

For the privilege to play the list i like i don't really mind.

My best guess is that the few games I'm going to play of 7th edition is going to be "bound armies only", since unbound already have made such a horrible name for itself. I have a hard time bringing anything FW right now because of all the stigma (even though they write rules at least as good as GW).

Da Butcha wrote:
Given that we haven't heard anything about buggies, and nothing about Wazzdakka or taking Bikerz as troops, it really suggests to me that the Codex is going to be disappointing for Speed Freeks. On the other hand, that makes me think that there might be a second "wave" with a Evil Suns/Speed Freeks supplement, buggies, koptas, and either Wazzdakka or a biker character model (which could let you make a boss, biker mek, or biker doc). After all, they moved Nork into the Ogryns box, so there's precedent for a plastic box with a character option in it now.

That's pure speculation, but it would explain why we haven't heard leaks about warbuggies/wartrakks/deffkoptas even though some of the models are ancient, and other models are unavailable.

In the short term, it would be disappointing for the Evil Suns gits among us, but in the long run, it might be better (it would be better if you didn't have to pay $50 for a second book, of course, but two books is better than a boot in the janglies).

This is what I am hoping for. I'm a bit annoyed that the supplements cost more than the total rulesets of other games, but I still hope that the Speed Freaks get a supplment, and I have been since GW started doing them again.

Otherwise I'll have to spend a lot of time convincing the guys I play with that using FW special chars is okay. Perhaps they could learn something from it, and I might even buy some bikers.

I just want to go fast...

 nflagey wrote:

 Karl Hammer wrote:
There is a discrepancy between the WD text and the table listings of the G/M-naughts. In the text they say that the (2) rokkit launchas are TL, whereas the TL entry is not listed in the tables. The models themselves seem to have the rokkits in pairs perhaps suggesting they are TL...although that may be completely irrelevant. While the overall conclusion wouldn't be substantially changed, having (2) TL rokkit launchas would certainly help.

maybe that's not the way to answer, but I'll give it a try nonetheless: look at the model
it has 4 Rokkits, and 4 Big Shootas
therefore, I would say that both are TL

4 Rokkits are usually the representation of a single twin-linked rokkit launcha, for example on buggies or deff koptaz. So it's quite possible it's just two rokkit launchas (which is better than a twin-linked one).

Leerjawise wrote:

rothrich wrote:
They were designed to be really cool looking models for use in a game that was never meant to be taken all that seriously. Guys this is an ork thread... If you can't play the game for fun playing as orks you should not be playing orks at all!

Exalted! There are many armies to play, but only Orks have the unique community that it does. This is partly because we have been mostly ignored since 4th, for the most part only people that like playing Orks for fun have stuck with them. Yes it is okay for people to play for competiveness, but Orks have been the easiest way to get away from it for those that don't love it.

I'm a competitive ork player, I'm sticking with them, and I'm having fun while playing them. Sorry for ruining your world

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I've never really understood why people feel competitive orks and fun/silly orks are mutually exclusive. IMO orks should be playable in a reasonably serious way if you desire, as it seems to me many ork warbosses would be serious and would attract more serious orks to themselves. Then on top of that, you should have silly and random options, the sort of options that aren't necessarily bad, but things that have a good chance of wiping out large swathes of enemies but also a good chance of wiping out large swathes of your own troops.

Orks should have just as much chance of winning as losing, but (if the general chooses to take some of the more random options) the outcome could be swayed either by a good opponent OR the orks just screwing up and destroying themselves in the endless pursuit of more dakka.

Agree, the SAG, for example, is a very competitive, though random option. Without mishaps, you get large blasts of terminator killing, and you can somewhat plan for the mek tearing a hole into the warp by not deploy everything around him. The exact polar opposite was the Warphead, which screws you over some times, is completely useless during other times, and in very rare situations actually does something useful. Another one would be the Zzap Gun. As single-shot weapon that's already struggling to hit, it also has the chance of just making the target feel a little uncomfortable rather than frying it with bolt of lightning. Those are the bad kinds of random, I'd like more good kinds of random.

 Jidmah wrote:
Agree, the SAG, for example, is a very competitive, though random option. Without mishaps, you get large blasts of terminator killing, and you can somewhat plan for the mek tearing a hole into the warp by not deploy everything around him. The exact polar opposite was the Warphead, which screws you over some times, is completely useless during other times, and in very rare situations actually does something useful. Another one would be the Zzap Gun. As single-shot weapon that's already struggling to hit, it also has the chance of just making the target feel a little uncomfortable rather than frying it with bolt of lightning. Those are the bad kinds of random, I'd like more good kinds of random.

Fingaz cross'd...

 Dakkamite wrote:
So wait, whats happening to bikes? I literally just finished my 40 biker horde. I'm going to be fething pissed if they can't be troops

This is 7th everything scores. Do they need to be troops?