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Dang I didn't realize how far behind I was, my local shop hadn't had any White Dwarfs for 3 weeks, plus I hadn't been on here much to catch up...

Been reading the thread and it's got a lot of information, still going through it though. One of the best threads for information.

Have a Mek, an Ork 'dex enroute. Can't wait to get the green tide up and running. Still though, a bit cautious about the Trukk Mobs.
Multimoog, I'd like to see that 30 Ork mob in action! I don't think I've seen a mob that big.

Another random question, but do Orks still have furious charge?

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I'm still a little boggled that they didn't improve the dive-bombers at all. I've never even seen a Blitza-Bomba model. What does it look like? Is it nice?

I thought they improved it massively? Large blast instead of small, AP 2 instead of 4, less chance to go wrong.

Wow all.those relic weapons are terrible.. who cares if its +6str and ap1 if it takes 4 aassault phases.. power klaw is always s10 ap2! No reason to ever use the relic klaw either.. you should always ignore any ability that says "exchange all attacks for..." unless you have no other choice..

The non weapon relics aren't good either but collated to other options they might as well be godly.

Is there even a purpose to the ghazghull supplement? You have to always challenge which is huge detriment..take more hits on average from mob rule.. although not falling back could be okay if you survive, have awful relics and beyond awful warlord traits. At least one of the traits isn't fear? Do they plan on selling this due to customer naivete? On top of that ghaz himself suffered a massive nerf due to low status

 Daveh wrote:
So take the big Boss pole and have fearless orks again. Sorted.

Or take Grotsnik and get Fearless, Feel No Pain and Rampage.

I see that the Warlord Traits and Kustom Gubbinz are only available for detachments and formations chosen from the supplement (and compulsory for them, it seems). I guess that's the new pattern.

The Boss iz Watchin' rule seems really bad; if I'm reading it right it changes the mob rule to a Squabble on a 2+ and increases the number of hits you take. That's a huge nerf and it seems like exactly the opposite of what the description suggests it should do.

Or take grotsnik and a big mek with the big bosspole and you have 2 units fearless.

"The boss iz watchin'" is pretty neat for units with armor saves, since you can no longer fail against shooting and the additional hits can be caught by FNP/armor.

Bikes come to mind here.

 Jidmah wrote:
"The boss iz watchin'" is pretty neat for units with armor saves, since you can no longer fail against shooting and the additional hits can be caught by FNP/armor.

Bikes come to mind here.

If I remember the chart properly isn't it:

1: auto-fail, unless in combat, then auto-pass
2-3: if a character is in the mob take D6 hits and pass, or otherwise fail
4-6:if 10 or more models, take D6 hits and pass, or otherwise fail

With +2 to the chart and the hit change it becomes:
1:if a character is in the mob, take 3+D3 hits and pass, or otherwise fail
2-6: if 10 or more models, take 3+D3 hits and pass, or otherwise fail

So any unit with less than 10 models fails the mob rule table on a 2+ even if they have a character, and auto-fails if they don't, even if they are in close combat.

This seems like an enormous nerf for anything other than mobs of 30 boyz that don't have a character/bosspole. I either didn't read the fuzzy picture properly or GW did something terrible and nonsensical.

This new mob rule is a lot like Synapse. Its an inbuilt way for 'normal' armies to handle super hordes. If you kill a tyranid player's limited and expensive synapse, the army falls apart. Consistent shooting against orks makes their boyz kill themselves.

The problem is... the devs don't seem to realize just how much firepower is being brought to games now. This isn't about 4 tactical squads and a dreadnought. This is 2 scout squads, 3 thunderfire cannons, and a bunch of grav/hurricane bolter centurions. "Normal" armies have absolutely no trouble removing hordes, much less having the hordes self destruct.

 dan2026 wrote:
Dont know why people are so bothered about Wazdakka being removed. Zhadsnark always seemed like the better bet anyway.

A power klaw that hits at I4 is fine by me.

is it?
the new faq says nothin about ini 4...
seems to me like a normal powerclaw


imperial armour 8 FAQ:
www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/d/Dred_Mob.pdf

 Toburk wrote:
or GW did something terrible and nonsensical.

That simply never happens.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RedNoak wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Dont know why people are so bothered about Wazdakka being removed. Zhadsnark always seemed like the better bet anyway.

A power klaw that hits at I4 is fine by me.

is it?
the new faq says nothin about ini 4...
seems to me like a normal powerclaw


imperial armour 8 FAQ:
www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/d/Dred_Mob.pdf

It's not Unwieldy, so it strikes at initiative.

So, basically, Codex: Orks is a bit meh.. and the Supplement is where all the good toys are?

Huh, true.

The entire supplement looks bad though, wouldn't ever want that as my main army. Bad warlord traits, overcosted and situational relics and no real advantage over the regular ork codex anywhere. Unless there formations have some awesome rules, I wouldn't be caught dead fielding that as my primary detachment.

The best thing to get out of it would probably a big mek sporting a Big Boss Pole and a 4++ KFF plus whatever gear you feel like, because you didn't have to trade anything for your KFF. Big Mek on a bike with KFF and SAG might just be the pinnacle of mek silliness.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Toburk wrote:
or GW did something terrible and nonsensical.

That simply never happens.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RedNoak wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Dont know why people are so bothered about Wazdakka being removed. Zhadsnark always seemed like the better bet anyway.

A power klaw that hits at I4 is fine by me.

is it?
the new faq says nothin about ini 4...
seems to me like a normal powerclaw

It's not Unwieldy, so it strikes at initiative.

It says unwieldy.

It's a powerclaw that gives you the option to trade all attacks for 1 that has I.D. Seems that's only useful for fighting MC's

He's talking about Zhadsnark's close combat weapon, not about the relic.

whoops

 lord_blackfang wrote:

It's not Unwieldy, so it strikes at initiative.

allright thanks


@new codex.

i dont know....

maybe it isnt so bad like we pretend.
basically we got nerfed but most stuff is cheaper and we got a bit faster.

but what really bothers me is, that there is no exciting "new thing"
the transition from 3rd edition codex to 4th was met with the same skepticism (loss of double ini, looted wagon etc) but at least we got some great new stuff like the nob-bikers, SAG's, burnaboyz and ramshakle...

going throught the new codex rumors however nothing feels like 'special' or really 'new'

the g/morkanaut are bit meh (and horifically overpriced - 80$?!) and all the other changes strike me more like a big update or faq to get orks ready for the 7th edition and this is kind of a disappointment -.-

RedNoak wrote:

going throught the new codex rumors however nothing strikes me as 'special' or really 'new'

Agreed, but it was to be expected.

None of the 6th edition codexes tried to really re-invent its faction, maybe with the exception of Daemons, which were pretty much a chapter-approved-style-get-you-by list up to that point. Apart from them, everything was just a copy/paste of the previous codex with the new plastic units added and some minor tweaks, but essentially the same army.

 prowla wrote:
So, basically, Codex: Orks is a bit meh.. and the Supplement is where all the good toys are?

No, the supplement is the terrible part.. that's what last page has been about

 Toburk wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
"The boss iz watchin'" is pretty neat for units with armor saves, since you can no longer fail against shooting and the additional hits can be caught by FNP/armor.

Bikes come to mind here.

If I remember the chart properly isn't it:

1: auto-fail, unless in combat, then auto-pass
2-3: if a character is in the mob take D6 hits and pass, or otherwise fail
4-6:if 10 or more models, take D6 hits and pass, or otherwise fail

With +2 to the chart and the hit change it becomes:
1:if a character is in the mob, take 3+D3 hits and pass, or otherwise fail
2-6: if 10 or more models, take 3+D3 hits and pass, or otherwise fail

So any unit with less than 10 models fails the mob rule table on a 2+ even if they have a character, and auto-fails if they don't, even if they are in close combat.

This seems like an enormous nerf for anything other than mobs of 30 boyz that don't have a character/bosspole. I either didn't read the fuzzy picture properly or GW did something terrible and nonsensical.

Yup. That rule is beyond terrible, and destroys small units. It removes the 1 result that didn't hurt you, and the ONLY result that had an impact on small characterless units.

Edit: And even in the supplement, they refuse to give us a frelling invulnerable save in combat.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

RedNoak wrote:

going throught the new codex rumors however nothing strikes me as 'special' or really 'new'

Agreed, but it was to be expected.

None of the 6th edition codexes tried to really re-invent its faction, maybe with the exception of Daemons, which were pretty much a chapter-approved-style-get-you-by list up to that point. Apart from them, everything was just a copy/paste of the previous codex with the new plastic units added and some minor tweaks, but essentially the same army.

I agree, I have been a little disappointed, would it really have been a stretch to chuck in grot battle tanks etc... there already a unit.... copy...paste.....ta-dah!
I have the feeling they may arise in a grot suppliment, but the time scale on when that will hit? months, if not years? suppliments haven't been that particularly fast to be dished out.

Not a massive fan of the ghaz suppliment either :S
As someone mentioned, 4 assault phases to get it to AP1 :/
Only thing I may enjoy is the big mek, boss pole 4++ KFF bike combo with a SAG.

Someone mentioned about using trukks to dump units into midfield in cover. This might actually be reasonably viable flash gitz and tankbustas come to mind. with a strong midfield force, as most missions now kinda wont let some tau force simply gun line it for the entire game.

4 assault phases = only 2 turns, right?

Solar Shock wrote:

Only thing I may enjoy is the big mek, boss pole 4++ KFF bike combo with a SAG.

As much as I love the concept of the Big Mek with KFF AND a SAG, is it 75points worth? Probably not.

And lol at the Killa Dakka. If the "Burny" option is Assault 1 (the number is cut off), I will die laughing at the 30 point heavy flamer.

No one said Ork tech was reliable streamdragon lol.

 streamdragon wrote:
And lol at the Killa Dakka. If the "Burny" option is Assault 1 (the number is cut off), I will die laughing at the 30 point heavy flamer.

Can't see a template weapon being anything other than Assault 1. Is there room in the missing space to write 'torrent'?

Really the Killdakka seems pretty rubbish. At best it gives you the firepower of a big gun Mek Gun, but with worse range and ballistic skill and no choice about what you get. For ten points it would have been fun, for thirty it's a joke.

I presume torrent would have gone under "Assault" like "Large Blast" is under the Bubbly entry.

Theoretically you could have the same BS as the Mek Gunz, if you got the Supa-Shootist warlord trait! Honestly, the Killdakka might be the only worthwhile choice for a Warboss if you do get that trait, given his other gun selections are barely worth shooting at all.

Guess if you're not running a warboss or have a Big Mek as your warboss that Trait might be better.

Dragonzord wrote:
4 assault phases = only 2 turns, right?

might need a clarfication, as it states gain +1 str -1AP at the end of the turn if you caused a casualty. however, T1 you probably wont get into combat, even if you do you then also have to go from one assault to the next, so not wipe them out your turn, wipe them their turn and then move assault another unit. do-able, but not guaranteed :/

yeh the BS trait is rather useless unless you happen to be badrukk? ahh nvm he cant roll on it! but yeh seems a little lackluster for a warlord trait. Does anyone know what the barebones warboss on bike would cost? considering MSU warbosses on bikes.

Getting one out of 6 weapons that cost 5-10 points each for 30 points will never be viable, no matter how high your BS is. Especially since there are quite a few blasts on the list.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

RedNoak wrote:

going throught the new codex rumors however nothing strikes me as 'special' or really 'new'

Agreed, but it was to be expected.

None of the 6th edition codexes tried to really re-invent its faction, maybe with the exception of Daemons, which were pretty much a chapter-approved-style-get-you-by list up to that point. Apart from them, everything was just a copy/paste of the previous codex with the new plastic units added and some minor tweaks, but essentially the same army.

Here's my "inside information" from a few months and many, many pages ago:

Models
-Not every kit or model "needing" an update or new plastic kit will receive one.
-There will be about 4 new plastic kits.
-At least 2 of the new kits will be for brand new units, to appeal to both collectors and gamers.
-Also, at least 1 of the new kits will be a combo kit.
-Expect to see Finecast presence in the range greatly reduced.


Codex
-The codex will be 104 pages, and more of a refinement more than a complete overhaul.
-A few mechanics will get overhauled, but many will stay the same and the rest will only be tweaked to be more in line with 6th edition.
-Ork psychic powers will definitely be brought more in line with 6th edition.
-Points changes will figure heavily -- certain heavily-used and popular units will get increases, while less popular units will get cuts.
-Expect to see about two new units.
-Playstyles will change somewhat, and a couple new "star" units will emerge.
-There won't be clan rules in the codex, but they may be included in future dataslates and supplements.

I didn't get everything right, but it was awfully easy to be in the ballpark. I can only assume that people don't pay close attention to codex releases other than those of their fave armies.

 gorgon wrote:
I didn't get everything right, but it was awfully easy to be in the ballpark. I can only assume that people don't pay close attention to codex releases other than those of their fave armies.

Some people here just can't see patterns, or they delude themselves into thinking things will change overnight. Before the Tau release I spent way too much time unsuccessfully arguing with people who were convinced GW would make a Crisis upgrade sprue with extra weapons.